goalernestman:


Yes that is the reason I said it fabricated. in the history of Oyo or Yoruba or Oyo empire they came in contact with Ghana, European, fight wars with Benin edo but in all this kingdom history there is nothing like Oyo.

In Benin history where they come in contact with any kingdom it also dated by the kingdom.

It just like I will say I buy a Toyota car in a company in New York when you go there you find no trace of my purchase and the company will say they haven't see a man like me in there before.

So Oyo empire is faked as super man only real to Yorubas

It could be the map shows all the kingdoms that have existed in West Africa and Oyo empire never came in contact with Ghana empire which is not even located in present day Ghana but in Mali. it may not be all accounts of Benin empire may be true.

goalernestman:


Why not check source of the European. I have found that all west African history contradict the Oyo empire.

I found Oyo empire only in Yoruba history and not the world or Africa. as I was saying above I just google the Ghana Empire today reading it I found Benin empire if oyo really happened it should be more closer to Ghana than Benin but I saw Benin and no Oyo.

And also any ancient map of Africa you see the author or source being a European you always see Benin, Ghana, Dahomey but no Oyo.

Wait did you mean u saw the map or Benin empire actually had contact with Ghana empire because Ghana empire is older than Benin empire and Benin used a lot of centuries to senior Oyo empire it maybe the dating of the map was when Oyo empire was not yet established or Europeans had not yet had contact with Oyo empire.

Oshi5403:


The Claim Of Unification Of The Whole Of Yoruba Land By The Oyo Empire Under One Rule Is A Kind Of Confederational System Of Government.The Ife,ilesha Etc Kingdom Were Unified With The Oyo Empire,but The Greatest Power Reside With Component States And Not The Central.

Other Parts Of Yoruba Land That Were Conquestly Subjugated Under The Oyo Empire Were Full Proof Subjects Of The Oyo Empire,under The Unitary System Of Government Of The Oyo Empire.

Confederation And Unitarisation Are Different System Of Govts
Thanks.

If they had form an alliance then why was it called oyo empire not the alliance of Oyo, ife, and llesha and where was oyo when ife fought the owu and asked the ijebus for help not oyo.

goalernestman:


European at that time quoted that in just a single day the king of Benin can bring out 200,000 solders what more population do you need Benin was all south Nigeria when you have an empire large like that much can be accomplished. Or do you think all those war Benin won was just fight with few peps.

Why not read about the European source of the Benin empires first before you talk.

If Benin empire could assemble such size then where were they when the British attacked and the wars Benin empire fought were no joke they fought igala, owo, and I read somewhere even Sokoto caliphate so yeah Benin empire was a mighty kingdom.
But what u said contradict ur point about Benin empire being a minor ethnic group if they had such power and u said Benin was all South of Nigeria when in ur words was a minor ethnic group.

Oshi5403:


The Fact That The Empire Claims That It Conquered Ogun,ekiti,lagos And Ondo States Is Not An Indication That It Conquered The Whole Of Yoruba Land..
It Never Claims It Conquered Ilesha,ife Etc

Oyo empire couldn't conquer ife because it is forbidden and llesha is another powerful kingdom in its own right but it is said oyo empire is said to have united all of Yoruba land under one rule.

goalernestman:



I will bet you there will also be no Oyo empire history in this Sahelian history expect the Yoruba version

Then how do u explain Sultan Bello account of Oyo empire when he called them Yoruba.

goalernestman:


Original above faked below by the 2 major tribe of south Nigeria currently.

For me am not disputing the fact that igbo and Yoruba are the major tribe now in South Nigeria, but this did not mean you should rewrite the history to suit to major now. Roman Empire was larger and major then just like Benin in Nigeria but it just a city now America will never take what they have in history from them. But I found this act in you igbo and Yoruba.

Note I just want history to be kept the way it is no stealing and no rewriting

So now u are basing ur points on major and minor ethnic groups using the Roman empire to compare with America but did u know that the Roman empire was not only based on its size but on it population at it time it hard one of the largest population in the world.
In the east we had igala empire a large empire in its own right but don't forget they also had Nri kingdom as well.

hayoholla:




it seems most people arguing on this bight of Biafra, bight of Benin for validation of their old kingdom due to some maps Is very ridiculous. do you guys know what a "bight" is. so you are telling me a voyager coming from Europe will have contact with oyo kingdom that is more closer to the Savannah than jet being close to the coastal region, even given her proximity to dahomey. the reason why cartographers named all those area bight of Biafra or Benin is because, they have more access to kingdom around the coast than they have to the hinterland. this prompted their assumptions that the kingdom might have extend to the hinterland, without exploring it. This is why Portuguese asked the oba of Benin if there's a kingdom more powerful, of which he answered that a king existed more powerful to the north, his face his subject has not seen. Bare in mind, that oyo empire even when her influence is waning during the emergence of Benin kingdom, has been trading with traders from the Middle East. another reason why early cartographers might not recognise the Yoruba was because, they live in a area with a lot of vegetation, an heavily forested area. so the early explorers Prolly made a judgement call that is within their scope of what they can see or who they find available to relate and interact with.

please, remove any ethnic difference aside goaleasternman and be objective

Finally were back to the matter at hand of the history of bight of Benin named after the Benin empire because of it close approximate with the coaster region. While Benin empire traded with the Portuguese oyo empire was busy trading with the Sahelian kingdoms.

Oshi5403:


Oyo Empire Neva Claimed That It Conquered The Whole Of Southern Nigeria,not Even The Whole Of Yoruba Nation.
Note That
Thanks.

u mean the same Oyo empire that said conquered Ogun, ekiti, Lagos and ondo state just so u know.

Oshi5403:


Hmmm
How Sure Are You

Well if u check the history of zulu empire with shakazulu , Akum empire now called Ethiopian empire and lunda and luba kingdom do have a connection to each other. But when I look at West Africa kingdoms oyo empire would say the conquered all of southern Nigeria but they didn't conquer ijesha, Benin empire and ijebu. And it goes on like that for other kingdoms in west Africa.

[quote author=macof post=76606235]

Wtf is this one still saying? Oga move along
If you want to learn history go through the pains of studying, buy books and travel, involve in the traditions of the people not just sit behind a computer screen and Google ijebu and argue based on the first few articles(without sources nor authors)
That's idiotic and you keep regurgitating the same nonsense about Ethiopia

I should get my facts straight? Lmao
Mr. Ijebu wa láti Ethiopia

I wonder what they call Ethiopia in ijebu dialect


haha yet again ur reading skills are rubbish I said I am friends with a ruling family in ijebu ode and for the record I don't encourage online sources. I do read ijebu history books but some are written by Yoruba who are saying this ife origin.
Didn't u read what I wrote I said Negede Orit's is what they said they were called.

Oshi5403:


The Problem Is That African Histories Has A Diversified And Varying Sources.So,most Times,the Various Released Histories From The Varying Sources Differs,and Sometimes Contradicts Each Other.

It seems like it is only west Africa that have that problem.

Oshi5403:


The Problem Is That African Histories Has A Diversified And Varying Sources.So,most Times,the Various Released Histories From The Varying Sources Differs,and Sometimes Contradicts Each Other.

maybe.

lx3as:


It actually covered most present Ogun central and west. How do you think Oyo got to her main port in Ajase (Port novo) in present Benin Republic.

it could be they skipped Ogun state and Ajase was created from old Allada kingdom doesn't this mean that since Dahomey conquered Allada kingdom and Oyo empire conquered Dahomey don't u think that is what granted them access to Ajase

Oshi5403:


African History Is Complicated Due To Lack Of Proof

Yes but their are oral accounts which are sometimes lies only if all of africa had written this things down like kano and Mali chronicles.

lx3as:


Oyo Empire did not really expand widely in the forested areas but covered northern part of present Ogun State. The Egbas were settled around present Ibadan then and were covered by the Oyo Empire but Ijebus were not.

Before Egba people came to Abeokuta the stayed in ibadan until they were driving by the ijebus and later got independence from oyo empire later came to abeokuta where they settled in. So u see Egba people have already gained independence from oyo empire, by the time they arrived in Abeokuta the were not under oyo empire so I don't think oyo empire had land's in ogun state.

macof:


you just a dunce. Lmao I laugh at this utter ignorance
Awujale is used in Ethiopia? by what ethnic group?
Olu-iwa is older than Odùduwà, maybe so but that is irrelevant as both were associates with Odùduwà even marrying the Oluiwa's daughter - Gborowo who is the national mother of Ijebu-Ode just as Òrósùn is to Idanre.

You don't study Yoruba history online and expect to know much, you read books by credible authors and go around obtaining first hand knowledge from elders.. Even at this you would still need a critical mind to discern historical authenticity
What's worse is an ignornat fool like yourself insulting people who know far far more than you can ever know

Oh and a quick free Yoruba lesson for you... OWODAIYE refers to Ifẹ̀
It is known as the first Ifẹ̀.. IFẸ̀ OWODAIYE

Another free Ijebu lesson.. Oluiwa is just a mere title for the dynasty before the Awujale. 3. Oluiwa existed
1. Osinfaderin 2. Osinumesi 3. Ofinran the childless

DUDE where did u learn how to read I wrote a flute that was used during the coronation of Awujale is still being used in Ethiopia. There is one account about the olu iwa given is daughter to oduduwa but that would mean ife is older when it is not check.
And I do read history of ijebu and oral account in fact I am friends with one of the ruling family's in ijebu land who also told me of is own history which doesn't correspond to what u are saying.
So from ur account ife owodaiye is actually owodaiye on them where was it located cause I can tell u where the Ijebu own is located. Osinumise migrated to ijebu ode with Ajebu and Olode.
But if u check the list of past and present Awujales in ijebu land it goes as follows
OLU IWA
OSHI
OBANTA
MONIGBUWA
And goes on, the list mentioned olu iwa as an ijebu king not a title.
Get ur facts straight and don t be ignorant.

gregyboy:



Oyo empire is fables build upon lies it is sad Ghanaian and togo aint in this forum to debunk their claims Benin never fought the ijebus they would have left thier trade mark there

U do have a point it would have been recorded like other wars fought by benin empire.

lx3as:


Oyo Empire did not conquer most of Yoruba land oh! It covers present Oyo State, Kwara, part of Osun, part of Ogun, and the rest of the empire was in West Africa,
It avoided conquering Ife.It was after the fall of Oyo Empire that the rising power, Ibadan, waged war against most Yoruba clans until Ekiti Parapo war against Ibadan by Ekitis, Ijesas, some Igbominas, etc. with arms' support from Ijebus.

Yes, some got there through migrations; however, some warriors and their commanders also stayed behind during the Oyo Empire. Some were their to collect royalties for Alaafin as 'Ajele' and permanently settled in those places.

Then do u mind listing them out and oyo empire never conquered ogun state.

macof:
lmao this mofo still hasn't brought his online sources.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you know about Ìjẹ̀bú that i don't know, Ìjẹ̀bú that I have read many books on and lived in, ọdẹ is talking about check online OK oya provide the online source ngbayẹn

So a fool like yourself who says nonsense and acts like he is saying something sensible, insulting everyone can't take the heat?
Go around and read my past posts on this forum, I don't shy away from filth like you, I put you lot in your place. Since you think you have sharp words

You will not come here spewing trash about the Yoruba nation which includes the Ìjẹ̀bú people.

My IQ cannot even be questioned by a useless entity like yourself. I'm waiting for you to be display your high IQ give me the online sources that say olu-iwa is not a title or that olu-iwa and awujale refer to the same person

Oga high IQ and do not forget to answer FisifunKododada any year now

Are u so lazy that u can't check it by yourself, the Awujale himself said that the ijebus are from owodaiye empire he even stated that a particular flute used during the of the Awujale is used in Ethiopia. Olu iwa is the ruler the Negede orit's (the first wave of Ethiopians that first arrive in africa) and olu iwa is older than oduduwa because the fifth Awujale not the first helped restore oduduwa sight which was stated by the Awujale.
There it is the evidence that u wanted if you are not satisfied check it by yourself and by the time u do u will realise how much of a fool u are maybe then u will shut up cause right now u act an mindless fool.
And u said I like insulting when u first insulted me u brainless monkey.

Oyo empire conquered most of Yoruba land but not all Benin empire conquered most of southern part of Nigeria. Oyo empire stretches all the way to Benin, Togo and Ghana. Some of the Yoruba people in those areas got their through migration not by conquering. it was recorded that Oyo empire fought Ashanti empire but it was never recorded in Ashanti history. Just has Benin empire said the subjected ijebu but it was not recorded in ijebu history.

Oshi5403:


You Are Right There
But I Still Dont Believe The Benin Empire Is Mightier Than The Oyo Empire In Terms Of Military Strength.Both Kingdoms Waged War Against Each Other Sometimes Around 1400 And 1500,but The Result Was Draw.It Was A Total No Victor,no Vanquish.

It is good that u agree with me but I never said Benin empire is better I just meant they are both great.

macof:
lmao. check what online? that Olu-iwa is not a title? or that Awujale and Olu-iwa were ever the same person? you are just daft. sorry my family isnt worthless, neither do i have a sad life... i am doing very well. it is people like you that are ignorant and very arrogant that usually have very questionable upbringing, your parents failed to give you quality education. oponu

wow so i guess u don't like it when they drag family into this but u kept on insulting mine that just show u how u were brought up a annoying little boy with no self-control.
And I am doing pretty good and no I am not arrogant I Just correct retarded people like u. ur parent failed to bring u up right u are probably a disappointment to everyone, ur family raised such a disappointment I just feel sorry for them that u are the way u are.
To proof ur point why don't u check it or are u afraid u well realize what everybody already know halfwit who just keeps disgracing himself. ur are nothing but a clown with a low IQ rate.

macof:
lmao. check what online? that Olu-iwa is not a title? or that Awujale and Olu-iwa were ever the same person? you are just daft. sorry my family isnt worthless, neither do i have a sad life... i am doing very well. it is people like you that are ignorant and very arrogant that usually have very questionable upbringing, your parents failed to give you quality education. oponu

wow so i guess u don't like it when they drag family into this but u kept on insulting mine that just show u how u were brought up a annoying little boy with no self-control.
And I am doing pretty good and no I am not arrogant I Just correct retarded people like u. ur parent failed to bring u up right u are probably a disappointment to everyone, ur family raised such a disappointment I just feel sorry for them that u are the way u are.
To proof ur point why don't u check it or are u afraid u well realize what everybody already know halfwit who just keeps disgracing himself. ur are nothing but a clown with a low IQ rate.

Oshi5403:


One Thing You Have To Understand Is That Benin Empire Was Great While The Oyo Empire Was Also Outstanding.
So Talking About Military Strength,both Had It To The Fullest,and The Oyo Empire Had An Advantage Over Benin,which Is The Oyo Empire Calvary.

Mind You,i Am Not In Supportive Of Any Kingdom.I Am Neutral In This Trend.
Am From Enugu State.But Am Just Trying To Get To The Root Of The Issue.

In my earlier post I said Oyo empire and Benin empire had military strength and I separated the aspect of each kingdom into different categories. Oyo empire made use of Calvary in war but they couldn't use of it in the down south because of the thick vegetation that limited the use of its Calvary.

Oshi5403:


But Dont Forget That The Mythical History We Had Is That Oranmiyan(the Founder Of Oyo Empire) Was A Powerful And Well Spiritually Fortified Belligerant.
And Then,the Benin Empire Neva Had The Opportunity To Make Good Use Of Calvary Like Oyo Empire.

Am Not Saying That Alaafin Oyo Is Superior.Just Trying To Appreciate And Constructively Critisize Your Point.

Yes oyo empire was among one of the most power kingdom in west Africa but the strength of ur kingdom is not only base on land but on military might as well which Benin empire had. Oyo empire also had strong military but u can't dispute the strength of Benin empire as well.
Ile ife is the spiritual capital of Yoruba land.

macof:


LMAO. Ọdẹ oṣi. I was very clear when I said Olu-iwa is one title, Awujale is another title... Olu-iwa not Oluwo
Go and read books, go around ijebuland like I have then come back and tell me when you know something about Ìjẹ̀bú history that I don't know.

This is what you get when you and everyone in your useless family have no regard for culture and history

So if u think it is a title then who bears it, if it not sure u could check it online and save yourself from being disgrace any longer.
Maybe it is u and ur worthless family that have such beliefs. I didn't want to bring ur family into this but u started it. It may be because of the way they brought u up that u are the way u are and ur probably going to end up a poor man for u don't know how u are insulting. Kindly don't take out your sad excuse of a life on me.

FisifunKododada:


Olodo. I am still waiting. Where is the statement where the Awujale said "...Ijebus are not Yorubas..."

MUMU. It is not my fault that you need to be spoon fed information. Stop being a disciple and be a leader, go and make research. But I will help u this one's check olu iwa ijebu and let's see what u find out.

macof:
maybe you were delivered to the white men. That one is your business but you don't speak authoritatively on what you have no knowledge of. It is everyone in your family that is dimwitted, o tie da yàn l'ójú, by their actions we know them

Awujale is a title
Olu-iwa is another title.
Look at this iidiot so ignorant and yet arrogant

Dude, seriously you bring family into this. How low can you go? You are lower than the crust of earth. You are a spine less fool to bring my family. But I am not angry because of how your ancestors have been servants to the Ijebu Ancestors, who are royals. If only you had the intelligence of your ancestors ,you be more fulfil in your quest for knowledge.
U can't even differentiate between OLU-IWA and OLU IWO u twit u are not even worth my time to be clear u are beneath me.

macof:
what is all this stupidity? The first Awujale was Obanta and he was a son of Oduduwa and Gborowo

Dude u still belief in the fairy tales of gods who delivered u into the hands of the Whitemen.
U Dimwit the first Awujale was OLU-IWA the man rumoured to have been the ruler that the Ethiopians met when they first arrived in Africa.
The god of ijebu kingdom is Alare not Olodumare.
And why are u people arguing with me about ijebu on a Benin Trend for Benin matters not ijebu matters so if u won't to argue with me create an ijebu site or if the owner dosen' t mind we can continue.

FisifunKododada:


You don't know who you are dealing with. I will show you pepper today. Post evidence of the Awujale saying that "Ijebus are not Yoruba..."

Bring it on kid. Dumb�, Don't you know how to conduct empirical research at all. You don't have access to the internet or are you a caveman from the past with a mental of an homo erectus. Emnipate your dry brain from stupidity.

FisifunKododada:

Oloshi. You don't consider Ijebus Yorubas but Ijebus consider themselves Yorubas...so tell me who is the fool? You or the Ijebus? Oniranu, omo ode. Go and tell my Ijebu family that we are not Yorubas...what are you waiting for? I will be in Ijebu-Ibefun this December. Why don't you come to my family house and tell us your mind...tell us how you know who we are more than we know ourselves...omo ale alainiopolo-oshi

Oloriburuku. U really are a fool among fools among all the people to disturb you choose me that is the biggest mistake u will make and those fools that like ur post are nothing but dumb a**. Opolo e wa ni furu e. U don't even know the history of ijebu land that u think they are yoruba.
So u know that they are not Yoruba people here are some of the evidence to educate u on ur dummkopf, hammerhead,ignoramus, lamebrain,nincompoop,ratbag, woodenhead, simpleton, pray, buffoon,clown,stupe. I shall cure u of ur stupidity.
Sungbo Eredo is older than ile ife the origin of the Yoruba people.
When oduduwa was blind the fifth Awujale have oduduwa the water he needed to see. Oduduwa meant the fifth Awujale not the first.
And this one even the Awujale of ijebu land said the ijebus are from Sudan in the Owodaiye empire.
The ijebu dialect is the oldest dialect not the ife dialect and the Awujale said the itsekiri speak the original ijebu dialect.
So from this point i said I hope u have began to think before u say stupid things. I mean really the Awujale said so and u are still questioning it or u think u know more than the Awujale. Don't mess with me punk or next time I won't be so merciful.

goalernestman:


Eri of 9th century gave birth to the ruler of Onitsha. And Onitsha also migrated from Benin empire in 14th century during the time of Oba eware and started having a king a (Benin prince) in 15th century. Now who is deceiving who?

That's an interesting theory but yet again u misunderstood what I said I will but it in more details.
The history of Onitsha is said to have begun with the migrations of its people from the Benin empire towards the end of the early part of the 16th century as a result of wave of unrest, war and displacement unleashed by the Islamic movement from North Africa. One version said that it was during their passage through the outskirts of ile ife that they acquired the name Onitsha, a corruption of Orisha Udo.
Another version has it that their migration to East of the Niger has to do with a misunderstanding that arose between the Onitsha family and the Oba Esigie (1404-1550), following the slighting of their shrine, Udo, by the Oba.
The immigrant settlers from Benin were said to have been helped by the igalas to cross the river to settle in Onitsha in the 16th century, which was originally called Ado N'Idu. It soon became the capital of an Igbo kingdom. In 1857, the British traders in palm oil established a permanent station in the city, and Christian missionaries soon followed.
The city of Onitsha was founded by Igbo group from Arochukwu under the leadership of Eze Chima.
One opinion holds that she was the daughter of Eri. Iguedo bore the founders of Ogbunike, Awkuzu, Umuleri and Nando.
Another opinion asserts that iguedo came from either Agukwu or Onitsha. Not many peace share this view. That iguedo came from Agukwu (NRI) could be an attempt to explain her relationship with the people of NRI. If she is said to have come from Onitsha, that may again be an effort to account for the profound respect which some parts of Onitsha accord her.
Iguedo relationship with the people of Onitsha is further supported and explained. In the letter to the resident of Onitsha province dated 12th October, 1932, the people of Onitsha were counted among the children of Iguedo. The signatories to the letter, on behalf of the people of Ogbunike, insisted that Onitsha was the daughter of Iguedo.
so u see it is uncertain whether she is the daughter of Eri or not remains a mystery.