₦airaland Forum

Ihedinobi: Sorry, couldn't hang around just then.

Yeah, Jesus's mother was a v, what about it?

My mom tells me I'm the most special, wonderful, handsomest, smartest being in the universe. Of course I like to believe that is true as well. What about it?

Ihedinobi: hehehehe . . . Wonderful! Classification. Categorization. I think this is fun. I see I'm not certainly fixed for any class, hmmm Why is that, I wonder?

You display both blind passion and an objective bent. But I think it's mostly emotion that drives you (as opposed to say curiosity among a variety of other factors), not too sure.

We're talking about the ones that should know better, those that should be able to see beyond indoctrination/brain washing. My view would be

For those who usually inclined to objectivity, it's usually fear of one sort or the other. Fear of hell fire, fear of the unknown, fear of society's condemnation, fear of looking stoopid for having believed in the first place, etc etc. If fear is not the motivator then there's lazyness and/or self preservation. The objective that are the greedy/lazy type deserve little respect imo.
FLAME BAIT
Objective types... Anony, pastorwacking


Then there are people who MUST peer through everything via subjective googles. They think they're helping and sometimes do, but they tend to get carried away. They cannot help their nature and are generally nice enough. They just happen to be extremely unreasonable usually. They would build up a religion if there weren't one.

MORE BAIT
Ihe (maybe), davidylan, frosbel (although frosbel may not know better)

Then there's the crazy
NOT BAIT, UNDENIABLY TRUE
BUZUGEE

I'll Udate later

@ihe, where did you go? Now I have to leave dammit!

See this jobless godfull troll looking to pick a fight on such a nice day. Let's start with an easy one

Jesus' mother was a virgin

Your move, good ser...

musKeeto: Heehe.. Not knocks


Twelve has 6 letters.
Six has 3 letters.
Ten has 3 letters.

Madre de dios
NNNOOOOOOOO!!!

musKeeto: Correct.

So it's amount of knocks?
If it is, I was around there but... Dammit

pastormustwacc: That is a better and more polite way to say it, than to piss on someone's head for stating their beliefs. But if you are looking for anyone to come out and start giving you hard evidences, you are wasting your time - or looking for needle in a haysack - or sitting on a looong thing.

A little digression, do you believe witchcraft/satan exists? Do you believe that God exists? Can you show me any hard evidence? I do turn to atheist o!

*And once again, I will go on recess*

You won't go anywhere, you're intensly curious so you'll stick around
Your post doesn't make sense to me, but meh. I'll just say that any claim made without any evidence can obviously be discarded without evidence, as Hitchens would say. Or even better, I present to you the physicist wolfgang pauli, from wiki:

"Regarding physics, Pauli was famously a perfectionist. This extended not just to his own work, but also to the work of his colleagues. As a result, he became known in the physics community as the "conscience of physics," the critic to whom his colleagues were accountable. He could be scathing in his dismissal of any theory he found lacking, often labelling it ganz falsch, utterly wrong.

However, this was not his most severe criticism, which he reserved for theories or theses so unclearly presented as to be untestable or unevaluatable and, thus, not properly belonging within the realm of science, even though posing as such. They were worse than wrong because they could not be proven wrong. Famously, he once said of such an unclear paper: Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch! "Not only is it not right, it's not even wrong!" "

3

Logicboy03: Image123, are you okay? Your bigotry has exceeded normal on this thread? Has Frosbel been teaching you?

It seems he genuinely does not know he is being insulting....

pastormustwacc: You are most welcome. However, this will not get us anywhere. I hate arguments of it is, it is not - a sheer waste of time.
*And so, I rest my case*

Is this for me? This isn't "it is, it is not". It is rather clear. All unproven claims are open to scrutiny. But you can rest your case

JeSoul: I simply agreed that worldly systems in general tend to go towards extinction (religion included) - however, this does not encompass the entirety of Jesus' prophecies on the end times - I merely quoted one scripture verse. Hope that makes sense?

Ok. But of course we're back to me disagreeing with you on the nature of the prophecies. They don't look special to me. You have anything concrete to give me which explains why you think them special? A link would suffice of course. Is your reasoning based on your personal spiritual experiences?
thanks

pastormustwacc: ^^^You need to prove the stuff is actually nonsense before you judge or condemn - that is what i meant by open-minded, it does not mean to be foolish or gullible.

Only if the stuff has already been proven. Else, depending on the nature of the claim and the situation, being critical may be necessary

pastormustwacc: When you create a thread with an already fixed mindset that illuminati does not exist, it shows you are a close-minded person, and you are trying to convince people that it does not exist, and rubbish people that claim it exists. You want to enter FEMA camp before being convinced?

No it doesn't. It would be close-minded if after being presented with valid objective evidence (or logic in some cases) one still refuses to change his views. Or at least admit he might be wrong and would have to research/reflect on the issue. If someone claims he's from FEMA yet provides no evidence for this but says you should follow him to camp for whatever reason, especially when no disaster has taken place, you should be critical.

Opening threads just to flame though is usually pointless, except for fun

Oos, double ost. My bad

On a semi-random note I came across a tv and it forced me to watch 'the island'. The beginning of the film, some mindless human/zombies working for some people dressed in all white. They were all waiting, being good, etc, with the hope of winning 'the lottery' and going to 'the island', the last paradise on earth (they were told some infection had wiped out most of humanity, and not to attempt leaving lest they get infected themselves). The were actually clones, and winning the lottery meant their death, as their organs were then harvested and used by their originals. The questioning clone eventually saves the day.
Synopsis here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film)

Only the beginning of the film is relevant though. The many faces of brain-washing and control. And I surprise no angry religious groups over the lottery

pastormustwacc: Thank you very much, that is a very satisfactory response, and has covered for the first one. In this world, it is better to have an open-mind till you actually find out the truth for yourself about whether a thing is or not.

Your point on asking for opinions then bashing them is of course valid. But on the matter of being open-minded, being open-minded does not mean you should accept any nonsense you hear. It does not mean you should not be critical.

JeSoul: We need to seperate issues.

I acknowledged the institutionalized church systems will decrease in popularity - I made sure to highlight individual faith - the produces real tangible results in the personal lives of believers will not wane in strength.

Jesus said His church would face persecution - this should not be miscontrued as an admission of falsehood of the faith.

I'm not saying you're admitting the faith is false, I'm saying you're admitting there's nothing particularly special about these prophecies, but you still choose to accept them for whatever subjective reasons you may have. Do I have this wrong?

JeSoul: Well, don't all things tend towards their 'demise'? religious, economic, social systems? it is not unique to religion. (and btw, christian prophecy is only a 'demise' in the worldly sense of the 'organized' "church" - the individual faiths of believers who make up the true church will be ever strong come what may).

That's my point, it's fairly obvious that all things come to an end. So to predict the waning of the churches powers, xtianity, etc is nothing special.

I predict the USA will someday cease to be the dominant super power in the world. See what I mean?

So while those predictions might seem impressive to you, to others it's like "well... Ok". Or you could imagine another religion making similar claims and what your thoughts on that would be.

Along with that consider that people have been making these claims in some form or the other for hundreds, well actually thousands if you consider other religions, of years.

Though I do note you don't particularly disagree with me, you're more or else stating you'll cling to faith.

JeSoul: This may come as a surprise (but not to those who actually read the bible)...
christians expect christianity to decline around the globe because this is what the bible actually predicts. So we are not bothered by trends or statistics that we are actually expecting to see - au contraire - it re-affirms the beliefs we already hold as predicted in scripture to be true. A large portion of what is called "christianity" on the global scale is false anyways - so what is happening is merely the seperation of wheat from chaff.

The rise of secularism is neither a threat to our faith nor indication of its efficacy in our personal lives - but rather merely a fulfilment of bible prophecy. So jeer, smirk, jab, scoff & laugh on at its decline brother...we would not expect anything less

I have this nagging suspicion that from at the very least the dawn of europe's renaissance xtians have been saying this. I'll have to verify that though. Regardless, they predicted the demise of their religion? Considering that all religions of this sort die off (or at least go through phases, zoroastroism(?) for instance has been fairly durable) that's quite the prophetic feat.

I agree with the bold though, it shouldn't bother y'all

~Lovely~

musKeeto: He lives in the heart of the beLIEvers...

The sad part is most people aren't trolling when they look you in the eye and tell you that.

Where's all the good xtian action these days? I might actually have to go back to work. Or should we invite the muslims for some tea?

Privy: Inference and proof are not the same thing.

According to wikipedia, Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

I am not an atheist myself but I have interacted with a lot of them and have quite a number of them as friends. In all of our discussions, I have not, yet, seen any that acknowledged a faith or belief in God or any deity.

Various scientific models (and theories) have been postured, in the past, based on inferences from experiments only to be modified or disproved later. That goes on to highlight a fact that science is limited to : 1. The amount of knowledge on which it is based. 2.Empirical stuffs.

One thing to consider is the fact that people have feelings yet you can neither empirically prove nor disprove it. Yet the feelings are there. Talking about spirituality, spiritual experiences and spiritual entities, is like talking about feelings. The fact that someone has not experienced it does not, in any way, indicate the non-existence or falsehood of such.

You claim that experiences cannot be empirically verified. They cannot be tested, verified/falsified, they cannot been proven. So, you have no problem when people don't disprove something that is not proven, yes?

And your brain can be monitored to determine if you're having a spiritual experience, emotions, drug trips etc. One would have to look at the chemicals in your brain. As for objective spiritual entities... well...

Perhaps you think there's a problem with science because it relies on empirical evidence? Or those who attach little weight to subjective and unverifiable spiritual entities? You'd rather your tv was powered by spirits? Or are you one of those who would have thought it wise to fight the white colonist with jazz? You know how that ended up, yes?

Something happens in your mind, good for you. Don't expect people to accept your claims simply because you say so. ~45000 other religions we've come up with also say so. One might as well accept them all too. They all have the same amount of evidence, non.

edits

Op is hard to take seriously considering he's a troll. Post with your dhtml account and perhaps you'll be taken more seriously

Like has already been stated, there's unaccounted for gravity in the universe, something must be responsible. For now, as nobody knows what it is, it's tagged 'dark' matter/energy.

If you want to somehow claim nothing can come from nothing, therefore there must have always been something, or the self-existent source of this universe, cool. That's ostensibly logical reasoning*. However, like dark matter, it would only mean some form of energy, not a (especially personal) god, has always been self-existent. The myriad gods from humanity's religions are particularly ridiculous.

First cause is almost certainly not a conscious intelligence as well. Intelligence is complex, it would be silly to assume complexity existed before simplicity. All across nature, and logically even, it is simple to complex and not the other way round.

So there's no evidence, logical or otherwise, to support a personal god in particular, or a conscious first cause. Logically maybe there is some to support some eternal energy source, but a thinking god? No



*though I don't personally fully subscribe to it, quantum etc seems to have energy showing up from nothing, but I'm no expert. anyways, scientifically we cannot say something cannot come from nothing just yet

tidytim: Interesting

You know just about all the regulars know tidytim = trolsbel
So why use the tidytim account to bump your old threads? Is it because you don't want people pointing out your hypocrisy when you start claiming xtians are being persecuted on /religion? Could it be some other similar reason?

But of course

musKeeto: Lol.. Impossible now.. Just a matter of time.. Next, they'd try to update the Bible... The old testament may not be around by 2030..

Just like the other thread which points the US is legalizing weed, gay marriages etc, slowly but surely this will probably happen. As the older generation moves on this is inevitable. So 2030 you might start to see this. In fact, I think there are more or else secular 'xtian' churches in scandanavia, for cultural xtians more or else.


Of course for xtians in the 3rd world, maybe circa 2230 or so. The muslim world circa the end of the universe. And they're probably proud of that. Who let them out of the 7th century anyways?

Can this work? He still acknowledges christ in a way. Why not just throw the whole thing away? Focus completely on the humanistic aspects?

Cultural jews to put it in perspective. They'll follow all the rituals and what not but ask them if they really believe in any of it and they may even laugh at you. They just follow the traditions for fun, or they like certain aspects, etc.

Ihedinobi: Alright

I'm curious though, what disgusting things do you mean?

The love, hope etc.



Edit: hahahahhahaha oops. My last reply I thought I was responding you @ihe, not @logic. My bad, fixing it

Logicboy03: Wiegraff, I understand your position but the christians can use it against you. I remember watching a video where an atheist was debating with christians and he was making a lot of logical points against christianity. While he was doing it, a little girl was tugging him. The atheist gently pushed the girl to the other side and continued.

Guess what? The christians ignored all his logical points and then focused on the atheists actions that atheists are immoral and heartless like Stalin- the atheists dont care abourt little girls. Atheists dont believe in god or anything like love.

Not arguing with most of that. I lack the patience to be diplomatic if I sense someone being lazy with their heads, among other things

EDITED: thought I was answering @ihe



I've walked into a zenith branch only to have the cashier point out to me I had a uba cheque on me. In my defense, they're both red. So yeah, I can be absent minded

@ihe
You have it twisted. He thinks he can reason with xtians, and is annoyed people cannot see past their differences. That's not bigotry.

I, on the other hand, think there's no such thing as reasoning with you 'people'. If there were, like House says, then you wouldn't be religious. That's bigotry (castigating all y'all). Frankly, I think him naïve

Image123: ^
oh you're now making assumed answers for me without answering the most important question in your life presently? you've already admitted to being an hypocrite, but it's pertinent you tell us so we don't assume on your behalf. Would you tolerate a goat as your sister, senior or junior sister, in the name of tolerance?
your thread op suggests that you value tolerance, I'm curious to know how true. Talk is usually cheap.

A few obvious things to note

I am a hypocrite, it's impossible to not be one in one way or the other, but that's another story. So, as I am one (and you're a much bigger one btw) how does that effect the intolerance you say I suggest is in the op? You're thinking your accuser is a douche and that's a good excuse for you to be one as well? So as other people are goats, or atheists, that's a good excuse for you to be one too, no? Especially when you constantly show up on cnn telling all and sundry that you are not a goat, rather the most specialest, rightuoesest, goodest of goodetsest, moralestest breed of human there is.

The most important question in my life presently is whether I'd have a goat for a sibling? Am I dreaming? What do you think you are? And as you've been insinuating from the word go (days ago) that atheists equal goats to you, you don't find that a little insulting?

You do seem to have some disturbing issues. That religion thing seems to have done some irreversible damage. I won't be wasting time on you (except maybe to mock), sorry