₦airaland Forum

F00028: mass murdering atheists:
"The total body count for the ninety years
between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the bloody hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined."

Yes, yes, yes. I've noticed how they did it because of atheism. There's that atheist hand book/doctrine, I forget the name, that promises us 72 virgins (and unquenchable erections, maybe a couple of goats as well) if we die in a jihad.

frosbel: Stalin did worse, Google it.

He was an atheist par excellence , r.ape , murder, torture, starvation were all legal terms in his dictionary.

What about China today, with the induced abortions, killings , corruption, child labour etc, is this not an atheist country, supposedly !

Atheist role model my foot.

Open your eyes and see beyond your nose.

Atheist role models?*

Yes, I've noticed how Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc are following sacred atheist doctrine. Lots of it laid down in our sacred text, The God Delusion by the great prophet Dawkins. Do you possibly spend all day in a section called 'religion' and yet not grasp what the word means? Start with the basics, wiki to get up and going, look up the references. Then eventually look up political religions if you still have problems understanding your folly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_religion
https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=political+religion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I've also noticed how these great examples of human compassion are not pilloried by the average atheist as well. In other words, I've noticed how atheists don't seem to care about human rights, genocides etc. Of course I can't speak for all atheists, but I understand most atheists subscribe to humanism in some form or the other.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/types/humanism.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

One thing I've noticed though, is how countries with large atheist populations that adhere to secularism, and maybe humanistic principles etc are doing very poorly in the HDI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index




*The very fact that you seem to put so much weight in role models...Maybe you should consider Paris Hilton, and model your life after her's. She is after all rich, successful and probably xtian.

seriallink: Funny signature

Believe it or not, there's a lot more where that came from

And I shall proceed with the derailing, as I personally expect more people dodging the question, what comes first? Poverty/backwardness then religion, or the reverse?

Question not for anyone taking some silly offense btw. I don't have the energy to show you the correlation between poverty and religion atm so I'll ignore you. As you'd probably be religious, and may have some silly gripe about this being the 'religion' section, I am discussing religion, just not with you.

cyrexx: in line with what you said, I'm in front of my TV watching BBC reporting a story about a couple who killed their 15 year old daughter

"A Pakistani woman who is alleged to have killed her daughter by dousing her with acid after looking at a boy said it was the girl's destiny to die that way.
Zaheen Zafar and her husband Mohammad were arrested in Pakistan-administered Kashmir for the 'honour killing' of their 15-year-old daughter Anusha on 29 October. She died two days later in hospital after suffering burns on nearly 70 percent of her body.
Her father told the BBC he warned his daughter not to look at the boy as it would have brought dishonour to the family. Her mother described how her daughter pleadedfor forgiveness but it was her "destiny" to be killed.
Mr Zafar said: "There was a boy who came byon a motorcycle. She (Anusha) turned to look at him twice. I told her before not to do that, it's wrong. People talk about us because our older daughter was the same way."
The mother added: "She said, 'I didn't do it on purpose, I won't do it again'.
"By then I had thrown the acid. It was her destiny to die this way."
The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan reported 943 women were killed last year in honour killings, an increase of more than 100 from 2010"

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/401508/20121105/pakistani-girl-acid-attack-parents-killed-looking.htm

....
And people defend this $hit. Seriously, perhaps they shouldn't be called people. We need to distinguish better between civilized human and uncouth deluded barbarian.

On another note, you shouldn't discuss it, as it implies you're a secret muslim

Hyppocrite op

musKeeto: na..

1+2+6=9
3+6=9
1+0+8=9
No? Dammit

Sticking with math
1+2*6=18
6*3=18
1+0*18=18
So, 18
No?
Probably no. Dammit

musKeeto: A man wanted to enter an exclusive club but did not know the password that was required. He waited by the door and listened. A club member knocked on the door and the doorman said, "twelve." The member replied, "six " and was let in. A second member came to the door and the doorman said, "six." The member replied, "three" and was let in. The man thought he had heard enough and walked up to the door. The doorman said ,"ten" and the man replied, "five." But he was not let in.

8?

frosbel: We all believe in GOD whether Muslim or Christian.

You should really be spending more time with the atheist tooth fairies , lol.

This GOD thing seems to get to you in a major way , otherwise you will not be wasting precious time talking , whining and ranting on and on and on about him.

Or, could the reason be , that you have nothing better to do with your time.

Did you even read my post?
You did, didn't you? And your best response is this?

Are you a catholic muslim, yes or no?

@kay

Mayhaps the aim is to troll. And considering your somewhat serious, respectful and mature countenance, perhaps it's best you left trolls to the more immature, like me.

Though I'm not particularly interested in this one

Trolls gonna troll?

Nah, that would probably be giving you too much credit. The tunnel vision, aided by blind passion, is rather strong in you.

Anyways there are atheists that could spend all day thinking about god. There are no atheists that believe there is a god. Do you have a dictionary and basic reasoning skills, like say a primary school boy levels of reasoning ability? Then perhaps you could come to understand what the word atheist means. Now you may want to claim a few atheists believe in god but are just angry at it, address those and stop calling them atheists. However, if your sole claim to their not being atheists is that they spend quite some time bashing god... Look who's talking. Well, you seem to be noted for your hypocrisy.

Now, since my relatively short stay here began, I tend to not bother with your threads. Even from the titles it was quite clear that they xtian only threads, and I can't be bothered with those usually. But I remember an early onslaught of 'bash islam' threads. So, does that mean you believe in allah and accept moh is his final true messenger? Recently, seems to be trinitarian threads, never read them, but I assume now that since you opened so many of those, even if you claim to not believe in the trinity, you secretly believe in it. By this logic you are a secret muslim trinitarian, along the probably myriad other things you spend all day opening threads about.

Seriously, most every time I read a post from you, you're like a gift that keeps giving

@op
Only the FOOL who has...
Wait, how does it go again? I see it everytime I'm here, you'd think I'd memorize it...
For the FOOL said in his heart, there is no GOD, then something something...
Anyways, the good BOOK says so, you will BURN in HELL and somehow being a FOOL is involved

Etc etc

And save me some pepper soup

true?:
God is not a mystery. Those who serve him do not do it out of fear, nor for what they can get. You are correct, I do not love Gods creations more than the creator. Who are you to call me a lier? Who are you to tell me what I know? You who know nothing about me. You puff, and brag about things you know nothing about. You puff, and you puff for the admiration of those you follow. It is the fool who follows the foolish.

Good ser, that's some nice writing. Gimme moar

Yes, I think you crazy, particularly silly, deep in the throes of delusion and folly, but it may be what aids your writ.

More doom and gloom, GYArRRrrRRRrr

It is trolling season? This is a little bit too obvious though...

First post, your arguments amount to "because I say so". You don't seem to understand how burden of proof works. We probably don't have the resources to tackle that, but to sum it up I'd say I won't waste time disproving something you've not proven. You are the one making the claim here, that a personal god in particular exists. So where's your evidence? It's written in the bible amounts to me saying wizards exist because it's written in the harry potter books. I could also ask you if you have any more evidence than the sikhs, hindus, muslims, that crazy homeless guy that preaches on the corner, etc have. They all claim their holy books (or speeches in the case of our crazy homeless) were ordained by god(s). And arguing from ignorance is just that, arguing from ignorance

Etc etc many other reasons.

tevinsolt: and also based on your view, there is no right or wrong, how can tiny things in the universe decide what is moral and what is not? and a sense of worth and value is an illusion, it's only in your mind because you are irrelevant in the whole universe.

My earlier post addresses this as well. Following the empirical view, the bold is mostly true in a sense. I've already stated I'd prefer something built around natural evil, similar to what you propose just without gods involved. Built around how much pain and suffering people's actions engender. And I'd like to extend that to all life, not just humans, in other words we don't mindlessly exploit other forms of life. But that's just what I'd like it to be. In actual practice we make it up as we go, and it reflects. Slavery was once accepted by the judeo-christian faiths, now they all frown on it. Lots of other examples. Consider the mandated by god shariah, obviously the result of a human mind, would you agree? That's how others not indoctrinated to or members of judeo-xtian faiths view xtianity's morals as well. They are man made, and evolving

Do we have the right to decide our destinies? Why not? Besides I don't see anyone else around. And even if your god existed, wouldn't it have to make up its own purpose as well?

tevinsolt: if it's assumption then come out and say it for what it is....
on planet earth things comes from something prior and this is fact, calling you a spec dust is not assumption it's a logical conclusion on what you believe

Like I already said, you don't know how something works does not equate to god(s) made it. Extend that miracles, you don't know does not equate to miracles, it equates to ignorance.

Compared to the vastness of the universe I'd day I'm probably even less relevant than a grain of sand is to a beach. But if you meant that as an insult, you don't want me insulting you.

tevinsolt: so let me get this straight, there's is no God or an intelligent creator when reality clearly shows, behind every thing there's is a mind behind it, but no you would rather believe in a miracle without a miracle worker....hmm sounds interesting.

what is the purpose of your existence/what do you live for? and what is the evidence that what you live for is reliable?

also who are you to decide how God chooses to create?......u claim morality is a human construct, are you sure? because if you are there's is no right or wrong, if you do not believe in a God, you have no value, you are just a spec of dust in the universe and the idea you are valuable than a grass is an illusion because you basically thing........i could go around claiming "i'm the greatest, i'm the greatest" but it doesn't make it true, because it is just an idea i formulated in my mind and it's an illusion

This is rather terrible, built on assumption upon assumption. The bold is particularly silly, and I've already addressed it no less. From there on, false assumptions

okeyxyz: It's a Miracle, Holy Ghost Fire!!! is confusing you

Ok

okeyxyz: Bros!! but why you dey "turn the gun on ya sef" nah?? So after all the rigmarole and beating about the bush, you finally revealed your motives in the quest to win a debate. Really, you nairaland atheists seem to have a knack for burying the axe in your own heads instead of the enemy's. cheii, baba god has certainly blessed this sunday for me o.

This makes no sense, so why are you congratulating yourself?

Double post

tevinsolt: So from your world view, what is morlaity to you?
how do you think we got here??

Morality is a human construct. Basically that long article's empirical view is hard to argue with. I'd personally like to have trandenscendal system built around natural evil (which simply means injurious to any life), but that's a complicated issue I couldn't explain now. This would be similar to what you propose except without god, just using natural laws and human common sense. Regardless, what I would like to be happening is very different from and less important than what is objectively happening.

Complications aside, morality is more or else a code of conducting business. Imo with religion involved we tend to corrupt it by accommodating needless bits from said religions.

I don't know how we got here, I'm just sure there were no gods or supernatural forces involved. Same way I know there were no gods involved in creating the internet, even if I don't fully understand how the entire framework exists. There was no intelligent designer either, unlike the internet. Breeders can create hairless cats after just a few centuries of breeding yet it takes god(s) 13 billion years and hundreds of billions of stars in hundreds of billions of galaxies to come up with humanity? And some religions portray all this as being built just for us? Anyways, there are many reasons to not believe, one being ignorance is not a valid reason to assume the existence of a god(s).

Logicboy03: Wow.

I respect guys like you who come to atheism on their own.

It was abuse that was the catalyst for me. I was always a skeptic christian but I was forced to read myself about christianity after someone had made a comment which I feared true about christianity and slavery in Africa.

Altruism was the final straw for me. Humans like these exist while god frets over pig meat, what consenting adults do in their bedrooms (or how many wives/husbands they have for that matter), etc? If anything, god is holding back these people I speak of, as they now have some shortsighted and irrational hatred for some just because god said they were bad. Really? Then it proceeds to send down a famine or two and keeps a fire warm in order to punish his creations for his mistakes. Most of us cultured mere mortals would never even in the most remote way conceivable consider this. The human spirit seemed a lot more admirable than god's.

So yeah, the problem of evil basically highlighted to me via altruism. From there on out apply a little thinking to the doubt that had always been strongly cooking in my mind (just ignored because of societal pressure), and the damn was breached.

seriallink: The time & day is coming brah, you have the grace now! Better use it wisely before Jesus returns with that double-edged sword!

Scripture says:

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

KEEP DAT INSTRUMENT OF DEVILRY AWAY FROM ME. I BANISH IT WITH LOGICAL FIRE!!!

Edit: perhaps I should just use my HADUU-KEN, LOGICAL FIRE is for more worthy foes, like yahweh himself

seriallink: It's not getting any better; they are all getting crazier! Most of them are just beyond redemption! *Smh*

Heh heh. I thought your double edged holy ghost sword was working?

Shokoloko: I made a glorious point. Have u been pregnant before?

Regardless, you made no point, just an appeal to emotions. It's also your subjective opinion, you assume all other women would feel the same way. It's a bit insulting for you to force your view on them. You think it isn't an organ? Then it should be able to survive without your blood, etc or any test tubes, incubators etc, no? There's no problem if it's taken out then.

Even if this fetus/baby was some magical being that could grow on its own, each individual woman makes her choice. It's her body, not yours.

tevinsolt: Whaaa? Rephrase that ^^

You claim god creates moral law, there is no god so that's not possible. I'm using 'god' here to represent yahweh or any other supernatural force. If someone claims he were mandated by god, his claims would be false (unless he could show you this god of course). Mind you he's not necessarily consciously lying, he could just be mistaken one way or the other. Ultimately all moral codes have been drafted by humans, even if unwittingly. You could present your evidence to show otherwise.


Anyways, god or no, you seem to be pushing what some call trandenscendal morality. Read this if you're ever free (e long tire, but maybe just the green bits should suffice)

www.nairaland.com/1090616/biological-basis-morality

Lord Babs: thank you. Even me sef don sincerely challenged my mama before say why she no abort my pregnancy. She com born me for inside dis damn world of confusion. Haba!

Nobody force them oh! You go see pikin dey sell groundnut for street, who force the parents make them get pikin before them prepare? And somehow these slav... kids are supposed to be grateful?

I did not ask anyone to born me, I don't owe any one any particular favors (my parents just happen to be sweet, any love I have for them is not forced because they 'gave' me life I should be grateful for, it's because I genuinely like them). If I have kids, I'll recognize it's my responsibility to take care of them. Turning them into street hawkers, not sending them to school, etc, frankly neglect like these should be criminal offenses.

blink182: I don't see them as errors, Jesus did not come to destroy the law but make it better. That was one argument always put up against Him by the pharisees...I hope I'm not talking to a phucking atheist because this place stinks of them.

Really, you f*cking eediot? Anyone force you to read our posts? You are afraid of 'seeds of doubt' so much you label us 'f*cking', is that the measure of your faith? Sounds like your indoctrination is beginning to fail.

^^^
Long and short of it, for your argument, there is no god. So when you say it's mandated by god, you're simply saying it's mandated by man claiming it's mandated by a god(s).

okeyxyz: So let me get this straight: I have two dogs, I decide to name one 'weigraf' and the other 'logicboy', I have two cats whom I also name 'muskeeto' and 'platean', Does that mean I have 'accurately' portrayed the corresponding characters on nairaland? Do you see how your logic disintegrates? c'os if you don't, then I'm sorry your case is beyond me. Only prayers and 7-weeks fasting can deliver you.

Did I say they had accurately depicted yahweh? Did you miss the nice big question mark in the op? I never told what I think till my post just before this one. The idea was to get opinions. But if you think they chose yahweh randomly I would think that kool aid you drank must be pretty darn strong. So they randomly chose to make lucifer the leader of the rebellelion, satan the boss of hell, metatron yahweh's foot soldiers, etc?

And yes, I think it's an accurate portrayal of yahweh.

mumumugu: na she put d pikin 4 ha belle ? No be d man help am? She shud consult d man b4 makin any conclusion on abortion?

Pesonaly,am against it.GOLDEN RULE

So because he put it in there he has the right to tell her what she should do with it?

I leave something in your car, I now have the right to tell you where you go, how you service the car, etc?

The only person (I would suggest) she has to consult, supposing she's not a minor, is a qualified physician (or sadly, some sort of board, as there are doctors know to be unprofessional because of their religious beliefs). He would ascertain that no harm would come to her and should also make sure she's aware of all the options available (like say adoption, test tubes, whatever)


Random and irrelevant, as this issue really is solely about the woman and it being her body:
I think the golden rule is flawed, but that's another story. Quite a few people wish they had never been born, or would if they knew better. Who are you to speak for them?
And even for late terms, when does a baby begin to show signs of any self-awareness? Even if it might sound harsh, it's certainly not at birth. At that stage it's no different than a goat. In fact, certain full-grown primates would qualify as more 'human' than the baby. So it's not like the baby can 'choose' to live. If it has a soul, pls show it to me? As we obviously have to draw a line somewhere birth is acceptable.

tbaba1234: ^what a load of nonsense!!

Just proving my point, you haven't even read the Quran and you feel qualified to have a debate about it.

When do I even imply I want to debate specifics of the koran? Why in the world would I waste my time with that? What I debate are the principles, logic, dogma, doctrine, culture etc. Some of them things you've been describing as 'simple' through this thread. Allah is god, his messenger is moh. Sharia is ordained by god, it also mandates stoning as an acceptable punishment. Women are worth half of men, etc, etc.

Do you think I have to read twillight before I tell you it's not real? Or that the stuff in there shouldn't be taken seriously?

You: "What are vampires?"

Me: "Fangs, undead, burn in sunlight, immortal etc"

You: "I see, that's not possible. Logic alone pi.sses all over the notion"

Me: "It is"

You: "Ok, you have any objective evidence?"

Me: "The book says they exist"



And to top it up, I swing by later and tell you

"The book says vamps are our overlords, and they've commanded you go out only at night so they have a chance to feed. We'll also be routinely taking more of your blood, money, time, freedom, and importantly your capacity for independent thought as well, depending on the whims of dracula's agents"

Do you have to read twillight before you tell me it's rather silly that you restrict my movement to only night for those reasons? Or to even point out that that's an incredibly stoopid line of reasoning? Or to ask me just who in the hell gave me the authority to dictate laws to you based on twillight?

tbaba1234: I have had many debates on Nairaland, you might want to ask around. I do not engage in lond-winded arguments with people who can not read. If you read and then have objections, we can go from there.

The proof of God's existence are numerous, if only you can reflect on reality. You do not need the Quran for that. What i tried to prove to you is that the Quran as a book is beyond the productive capacity of a human. I presented the arguments in english language and you dismissed it, calling it subjective. an argument already addressed in what you could not read. Close-minded people are difficult to convince. I can go many pages debating you with no reasonable outcome.

I do not have that time to waste.

So you understand time is precious yet expect me to waste mine when you cannot provide me with a good reason to read it other than you think the koran is awesome? Your arguments are built around you thinking a book is awesome? Perhaps you're the only with no time to spare.

I read the article with the 'proofs', I gave you feedback. Nothing new, extremely flawed. Unless you can provide some good reason that is more objective than your (already pointed out here) subjective appreciation for the book, don't expect people to indulge you.

Again, just like you're not willing to waste time on a futile exercise like debating me (which I agree would probably be a waste of time, as you're so far gone you hold on to these 'arguments' you yourself would think horrid were you not the one using them to hold on to your faith), I really don't have the time to read those based on the 'evidence' you've provided. If you think you're being insulted can you see how I should think you're insulting me as well?

On the issue of why I probably won't read them unless all the wet paint on the planet has dried

You: "I don't think vampires exist"

Me: "I do, you should read twilight, it's very good. It's so incredibly mind-blowingly awesomely awesome written, (authors name) could not have possibly written it without the help of dracula"

You: "I'll pass, thank you. You got anything to support your claims other than opinions"

Me: "I have this rather long threads were I discuss my opinions"

Your response to that should be


Provide a reasonable reason, then I'll read it, simple.

And again with the holier than thou. Still with the implying I'm too lazy to read stuff. I've addressed this already above but also, honestly, do I strike you as someone who doesn't read stuff? You've now added close-minded to the list. Frankly, you don't know what the term means, but that's another long story. I have to sign out as well


I'll give you condescending 'kudos' for at least trying. Your fellow brothers, as my sig suggests, fail a lot more spectacularly



Edit: I forget, do note I've read bits of the koran and have observed various debates about translations and its content. From what I've seen, it's not just written by a human(s), but also greatly influenced by probably illetracy/ignorance even for that period, and a barbaric culture by today's standards. So I don't get where this 'beyond human capabilities' comes from