Wiegraf's Posts
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 Christianity Etc › Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 1:27pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
MacDaddy01: I've met Anony in real life. The guy is a sharp guy. He acts all christian outside but he knows the koko!One can only... pray...you're right. I won't be putting money on it though  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 12:29pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
MacDaddy01:Anony is a robot, I wouldn't be too excited. He'll probably ignore her emotions, use his famous 'logic' and drive her insane. He won't mean any harm of course |
| Christianity Etc › Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 12:21pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
haibe: @mac daddy and wiegraf i have some questions for youAs @mac says, atheism is a stance on the existence of gods, nothing more. Since I'm vain though I'll indulge a bit. Look up secular humanism, many atheists subscribe to a variant of it or something similar 1. Not certain about first cause, blah blah. Evolution? 99.9 percent certain. Abiogenesis? In some form, 99.9 percent certain. How it works, not so sure yet, just certain there were no miracles/gods involved. 2. The universe doesn't have some sentient purpose, it wasn't created or programmed to eliminate suffering, it just is. 3. Work? As for existential angst, etc, you could turn to some sort of spirituality if that rocks your boat. Just note whatever spiritual system you subscribe to isn't objective, therefore void if they infringe on the rights of others 4. I base my actions on the amount of suffering I estimate they'll engender, using my own gauge. The less, the better. 5. Not really, no. But yes we have the highest intelligence levels of any species that has ever existed on this planet, to the best of our knowledge. Random: Some would say we are less valuable than other species considering the destruction we have wrought on the planet. Wiping out species after species, then feasting on fossil fuels that have taken maybe billions of years to form. If we are wiped out for whatever reasons, it's likely that should another sentient species arise, they won't have the energy necessary to achieve our level of industrialization. 6. See 4 7. Non, just never, ever mix church and state, so it should be secular. Personally, freedom and greater objective good. Some sort of social libertarian system. 8. Faith based? Me? Lots of ways, mostly negative, particularly extremely insidious. I wouldn't have much of a problem with flexible, benign ones. Metaphysical means very little to me. 9. No great commandments or anything like that. I do like me some Sam Harris personally 10. Wherever you are buried/cremated/float to etc Again, look up secular humanism if you're curious |
| Christianity Etc › Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 9:45am On Oct 08, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: My memory of the matrix is not top notch. Care to detail exactly mr architect's problems in the matrix?That's besides the main point, which is that so long as everything is coded right, there is no way even the architect could tell if the real world was a simulation itself (and indeed it could have been one as agent smith shows up in a human's body in that world, and neo's had abilities in it as well). What he doesn't know he doesn't know, simple. On another note he could monitor, project and predict neo's thoughts despite neo not being connected into his program as a battery, yet he could not locate rogue elements in the matrix, displaying limits of his apparent omniscience. He also had problems with infinities. But how/why both these problems occurred were not fully divulged, so while nice to consider, they are moot to this discussion. Mr_Anony: Illogicality highlightedIt was supposed to be illogical, hence the think of it as my IPU. Uncaused cause entails infinity, a ridiculous notion in any physical universe, why can't Pikkiwoki have some logic defying traits as well. Anyways, why can't there be multiple uncaused causes? Also note that their effects would have lasted for eternity as well. Pikkiwoki is all of the above.Mr_Anony: And what has infinite regress got to do with an uncaused cause?We are talking omniscience as our main meat here, not uncaused causingness. Observer and observed, so when our omniscient starts observing himself, he falls into an infinite loop, else he really isn't omniscient. I've mentioned this before but you probably didn't grasp it... |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Question (or 2) For The Atheists by wiegraf: 8:40am On Oct 08, 2012 |
Lord_Reed: My thoughts at the time I thought up this thread was to see the possibility of creating a justice system that would be based on moral subjectivity. My fear is that it would collapse on itself without an acceptable frame of reference and thus introducing a dilemma in that how do you maintain subjectivity when you create a frame of reference.Why would it collapse without a frame of reference? It seems I might be missing something. When you say frame of reference, do you mean like using the bible as the base for a moral code, then building around it? |
| Health › Re: Czech Man Becomes The First Person In The World To Live With No Heart Or Pulse by wiegraf: 7:22am On Oct 08, 2012 |
musKeeto: What's there not to be proud of? The ruler of the number one country in the world is black...  |
| Health › Re: Czech Man Becomes The First Person In The World To Live With No Heart Or Pulse by wiegraf: 7:15am On Oct 08, 2012 |
Kockane: Inferiority complex. Instead of complaining and comapring d white and black men, why not get up and start thinking of ways to make d world beta. This should be a challenge to us all, not a reason to admit urs is an inferior race. Great innovation though... And I'm still black and proud.What do those posts have to do with inferiority complex? You probably are the one with a complex if you have to tell yourself you're proud. Considering the last 2,000 years or so, what are you proud of btw? Hip hop and sportsmen? Ignorance, slavery, genocide, majority living under $2 a day etc etc? Admit there's a problem, then set about fixing it. |
| Crime › Re: Police Begins Manhunt For Killers Of Uniport Students by wiegraf: 6:41am On Oct 08, 2012 |
obadiah777: i see all my Bruvvaz from the religion section is out here Wiegraf, Seriallink. Muskeeto, Tpia. i troway saluteeeeeeYou've been here for a while... I feel your pain brah... 1 Like |
| Crime › Re: Police Begins Manhunt For Killers Of Uniport Students by wiegraf: 6:39am On Oct 08, 2012 |
musKeeto: Equality in Nigeria? Not possible.Stop it!! You're making me cry!! I suppose it's time to bury my own head in the sand.... F**k... Jokes aside, f**k... It may be time for me to leave... 1 Like |
| Crime › Re: Police Begins Manhunt For Killers Of Uniport Students by wiegraf: 5:58am On Oct 08, 2012 |
musKeeto: We are bothered because it was recorded.That might be the worst part of it all... If you can't see it then it doesn't affect you. Just bury your heads and ignore it all, concern yourself only with your self-preservation. And many are gleefully aware of their selfishness, they argue that they are just being sharp men... I'll tell you what though, the fact that they were students also increased the profile of this case. A student life is somehow more important than an uneducated life. The big mans life is sometimes worth hundreds or thousands of average people. It's the same all over the world, mostly because of the limited imagination of most of the masses, but in 9jah it's fucking ridiculous (especially as many times said big man is egregious in some way or the other). I remember watching NTA after a plane crash, before details eg number of dead, possible causes etc had been fully discloses first question that comes to our 9ja journalist, "Where any prominent Nigerians killed?". Fuc***g re.tard.... Here's a clue, perhaps all human life is equally important. Is this so difficult to see? They all have families etc that love them. They all suffer. I would agree that given context, in some situations one person's survival might be more important than another's because of collective greater good, but in 9ja it's blind worship of 'big men'. The uneducated man's life has just a little more value than that of an animal. Treat uneducated/poor like animals? They will probably behave like animals then... And oh yes, lucky us someone recorded it. Sadly, it's his/her intentions that are perhaps worrying... EDIT 1 Like |
| Crime › Re: Police Begins Manhunt For Killers Of Uniport Students by wiegraf: 5:02am On Oct 08, 2012*. Modified: 5:30am On Oct 08, 2012 |
Actually seen the video now. I have to say 9ja, you're a f******g subhuman disgrace piece of $hit of a people. There are wild animals with better empathy. I'm nigerian as well, you just have to face that fact. I'll just leave this here, a comment from another site " Look at it this way: These killings are just as extrajudicial as the daily killings by police all over Nigeria. We must ask ourselves why this has elicited stronger reactions from Nigerians. Is it because they were college undergraduates? Or is because of the sheer brutality of their murder? While these boys do not deserve to die like this (no matter their crime), their death is simply one manifestation of an ailing society. Until our collective national conscience is EQUALLY SENSITIVE to such vices like police brutality, corruption at high levels, tribalism, etc, ours is a failed state in the making. " 4 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 4:03am On Oct 08, 2012 |
AVmonster: <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="Princess Alice is rather awesome, almost as much as Pikkiwoki, certainly more so than most gods. I thought they were being just a little dramatic, still very good mind you, then the Jennifer Whitson woman showed. After they explained her experiment etc, I paused, laughed wickedly for a minute or two, took a swig, then restarted that section again. If it wasn't so late here I probably would have clapped as well. SPOILER, SKIP THIS IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE VIDEO Note on human behavior, see the doctor that lost his mother. Considering his scientific outlook to life, after his mother died and he thought he was seeing signs, his ability to detach kicked in. By remaining calm and objective he was able to come to his conclusions. He could have submitted to the default behavior of the average person, which is see patterns everywhere, start talking to gods etc. This calmness, objectivity, large worldview (look behind the scenes and not just what only you can perceive, immediately or not, ie see other POVs more or else), are traits that many atheists have. Many others would balk at this behavior and label us heartless, unemotional, etc. We're clearly not, and these notions are remarkably stoopid. Frankly, people who jump to these conclusions are selfish and/or shortsighted. A lot of religious indignation comes from this clash of approaches, it leads to misreading intentions all the time, among other things. How is your deism holding up? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 1:57am On Oct 08, 2012*. Modified: 4:13am On Oct 08, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: I know you did say in your analogy that the ends of the universe were unverifiable but then, If they were, then the whole concept of space wouldn't make sense and so would the notion of kicking a ball. There is a difference between something being unverifiable in itself and something that we are not able to verify because of our own limitations.Unverifiable. Use the matrix and asserting you are in the final real world/universe as an example, it's better. See the problems mr architect was having keeping tabs on his own universe as well. Mr_Anony: God is the uncreated one who created everything, if Pikkiwoki exists, God created it. If Pikkiwoki is not part of God's creation, then it does not exist.@mac is doing fine. Pikkiwokki is the one that created causation in the first place. He created creating, before the uncaused was caused Mr_Anony: What infinity problems?The observer and the observed, derp. Rather, observing yourself, then observing that observation, then observing that observation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3jjZdyH6io This is from planet of the apes actually. I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions (nor do I fully understand them, but they are mostly related to time though), just want to show a paradox related to knowing everything "Here is the painting of a landscape. But the artist who painted it says, - Something is missing. What is it? It is I myself who was a part of the landscape I painted.' So he mentally takes a step backward -- or 'regresses' -- and paints... ...a picture of the artist painting a picture of the landscape. And still something is missing. And that something is still his real self painting the second picture. So he 'regresses' further and paints a third... ...a picture of the artist painting a picture of the artist painting the landscape. And because something is still missing, he paints a fourth and fifth picture... ...until he has painted a picture of the artist painting a picture of the artist painting a picture of the artist painting a picture of the artist painting the landscape." The rest is about time, and indeed time is an issue. How much time would you need to process infinity? Mr_Anony: Church was great by the way. You should try it sometimedohohoohohohohohohohooohohho, why would you even suggest this? I'd rather actually spend time at work, something I am very adept at avoiding |
| Christianity Etc › Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 8:49pm On Oct 07, 2012*. Modified: 9:08pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: Lol, wiegraf, wiegraf still having problems understanding are we?This doesn't void my point at all. In this case, you can only think you know the numbers. I specifically state in my (fairly inadequate) analogy that you can't determine these numbers. Eg, like you waking up in one of the simulated worlds and predicting with certainty the amount of other worlds. So basically the same problems still stand. The whole idea being the possibility of there being things outside your sphere of influence that you are not aware of. Mr_Anony: Now God by definition is the uncreated creator of everything. Therefore, it simply follows that God knows everything about everything. Nothing is outside God's creation.See above. Also, once we've entered the absurdity of a god concept I now posit the existence of an even more powerful god: Pikkiwoki. Prove me wrong. You've not addressed the infinity problems with analysis. Have you heard quantic's infinite regress? I'll post a link later. I think that's what the song tackles actually. How was church? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Question (or 2) For The Atheists by wiegraf: 6:02pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
Lord_Reed: In other words a frame of reference has to be built right? Won't that remove the relativity?I'm not sure if I get you correctly, can you clarify pls? Edit: oops, I really should pay attention and read. This an attempt to remove subjectivity, yes. Having a fully objective moral code is of course impossible, considering mitigating good, limited resources, emotions etc, so it will fail if I am to be frank. But its the best place to start and build. The golden rule more or else is in the spirit of this suggestion, so we've probably been attempting this since antiquity, we just have to focus now, let go of the pettiness (well, as best we can). Opinions all mine, not all atheists, in fact quite a few theists would think along these lines as well. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Pink Unicorn Argument Against Atheism. by wiegraf: 4:42pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
vedaxcool: ^Ok |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Pink Unicorn Argument Against Atheism. by wiegraf: 4:19pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
vedaxcool: . . . What? You are not scientist? You must be a WURU WURU SCIENTISTIt's boost, and also incoherent, not inchoherent. Your delirium may be getting worse, have you had your medication? buhahaha  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Question (or 2) For The Atheists by wiegraf: 4:08pm On Oct 07, 2012*. Modified: 4:44pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
Lord_Reed: Do you atheist think a proper justice and equity system can be built on moral relativity?What would be 'proper', that's the problem with subjectivity. I think all our justice systems are already built around moral relativity. Be they based on religion, human rights, whatever, all are human constructs. The ultimate would to build something based on the concept of eliminating suffering for all life, in this world (ie this lifetime, not leave everything to $deity or preparing for the next life). |
| Crime › Re: Police Begins Manhunt For Killers Of Uniport Students by wiegraf: 3:55pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
POST THE VIDEO EVERYWHERE. BURYING HEAD IN SAND SOLVES MOOT!!! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Pink Unicorn Argument Against Atheism. by wiegraf: 3:42pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
vedaxcool: INCHOHERENCY!!! We all know never in your life have you ever taken out a research of scientific nature or do you think boiling to take your bath can be considered scientific research? Cretins like you always make being an atheist comical and at best a desperate attempt to pass yourself as being intelligent!Did I say I was a scientist? Did I even imply that? Which kind thread be dis where you open sef? You have such a simple way of thinking I'm almost jealous. I'm pretty sure little fazes you as you'd be too stoopid to become embarrassed. |
| Crime › Re: Police Begins Manhunt For Killers Of Uniport Students by wiegraf: 3:23pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
Benito69: And when they call us black savages, we shout racists...Wth is this $hit supposed to mean? Do you know what countries have the lowest crime rates and highest HDI's. It's you religious hypocrites one should be weary of. I'm pretty sure if the police wanted to catch these savages this morning most of them would have been found in church. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Pink Unicorn Argument Against Atheism. by wiegraf: 2:55pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
vedaxcool: Inchoherency!You've been wanting to use the word incoherent against me, haven't you? This is poor timing though. What's even more ridiculous is you imply you know. The sheer hubris. No offense to the reasonable religious out there, but religion seems to churn out a lot of proud, ignorant, buf.oons like you. It is possible for me to not know, yet know you are wrong. It happens all the time. Simple reasoning. For instance, I know there are no invisible men working in my tv. I know many, many things that work, but I don't know how they work. I am very sure there are no little men in my tv, that is a risible notion, demonstrably false with no evidence to support it (except maybe some quotes from the koran). I am also very sure there are no gods as well. That is all that is required to be an atheist; disbelief in gods. I don't even like the word 'disbelief', but it will have to do for now. How does all this cosmological stuff work? Meh. I'll let the scientific method objectively figure that out eventually. I won't make $hit up then comically pretend to know. 1 Like |
| Crime › Re: Police Begins Manhunt For Killers Of Uniport Students by wiegraf: 2:01pm On Oct 07, 2012 |
I no dey watch nta (sue me, I have better things to do than follow propaganda), but is this getting national coverage? Or is it just 9ja on the internet that is in an uproar? Also, there seemed to be a lot more supporters of this savages yesterday. In the cases of those who changed their minds only after seeing the video, good, but I weep at your lack of imagination. It would seem you can't emphatize with your fellow humans unless you see for yourself or it personally affects your interests. This is a huge problem. As for those barbarians still supporting their kin, can we have separate countries please? 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Question (or 2) For The Atheists by wiegraf: 11:28am On Oct 07, 2012 |
There's the argument that theists use their own in built moral meter a lot of the time as well. I am of the opinion that in fact religion makes it worse (read:opinion). Its already been stated here in one form. Assume the OT was still relevant, if you were to come across someone performing my favorite sin, working on sabbath, you have the choice of following either the kill people who work on sabbath law or 'thou shall not kill'. You automatically pick 'thou shall not kill' (I hope). I'm no bible expert but I would think there are many such contradiction in NT where you personally pick the better option based on your morals. I would suppose my moral gauge is similar to that. We are talking about moral good/evil, there's also natural evil, which is simply suffering. I would think most atheists gauge their actions based on the amount of suffering they would engender, universally. Ie regardless of race, religion etc and even species for some people. That's not to say we are saints, we also need pleasure. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: To All The Atheists by wiegraf: 9:53am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: @wiegraf,Go to church. I should get to work as well. The definition is wrong. Omniscience might look nice on paper but since one can't confirm this it's a void claim. I could say my 1 equals 2, that doesn't make it objectively true. Semi-random: Using today's science, I now claim I can kick a ball to the end of the universe. After the derision I proceed to kick it, and to your consternation the ball rips through the atmosphere and onwards. While you might be dazzled, there's a detail we need to note, we don't where the end of the universe is (whatever that is). Supposing the universe is built in a way that the end could never be verified, then my claim is nonsense. All I can do is kick a ball very far. Not the best analogy but it will do. The parallel is not exactly accurate. It would be more accurate to use say a powerful dream. Think inception, the matrix, holodecks, existenz etc. Waking up in these worlds and asserting there are no others. Again, not the best example but it will suffice. Btw, considering omniscience, an already preposterous situation considering the science, why can't there be other even more powerful magicians trolling him in his very own universe? It simply cannot know. There's the infinite regress of analyzing ones analysis. Normally, these factors (other universes, gods etc) may not come into play, but again, considering the nature of the claim, they are valid. |
| Music/Radio › Re: Your Thoughts About PSY - GANGNAM STYLE (강남스타일) Most Watched, Liked & Disliked by wiegraf: 3:36am On Oct 07, 2012*. Modified: 4:25am On Oct 07, 2012 |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/oct/04/psy-gangnam-style-filipino-prisoners-video http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2012/oct/02/gangnam-style-seoul-parade-pictures#/?picture=397028832&index=0 It's satire, loaded with creativity in abundance, even the gods would be pleased with this edit these might be the best yet... http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-psy-gangnam-style-covers-1-20121005,0,7170894.story and this is rather good as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceVlltPBcHg&feature=related |
| Islam › Re: Lady Gaga Is Offending Muslims by wiegraf: 3:28am On Oct 07, 2012 |
imperiouxx: I guess your insomnia is interfering with your normal brain function once more. I'm talking about you paraphrasing my statement. Who gives a damn about your post?You've got a loooooong way to go. Don't neglect your books |
| Islam › Re: Lady Gaga Is Offending Muslims by wiegraf: 2:27am On Oct 07, 2012 |
imperiouxx: There are many ways m o r o n s paraphrase.I'm very immature, but not stoopid. This is a highly potent mix of both stoopid and immature. Going by this, what was your issue with the structure of my initial post, since you think it can be 'paraphrased' arbitrarily? Only morons paraphrase, geniuses like you never do that? And do you think the grammar in the post I corrected does not seem to indicate you are some sort of imbe.cile, especially considering your accusations? |
| Islam › Re: Lady Gaga Is Offending Muslims by wiegraf: 1:53am On Oct 07, 2012 |
imperiouxx: I see who has comprehension problem with your improper structured English composition in the initial post. You need more classes in English language.Should be more like: 'I see who has comprehension problem(s) with your improper(ly) structured English composition in the (preferably 'your', but we can let that slide,) initial post. You need more classes in (the) English language.' That's all I can pick up for now, but I probably missed some. I know I said I wouldn't bother anymore but I can't help myself, sometimes I'm pedantic. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: LHC will create Bottomless Pit? by wiegraf: 1:39am On Oct 07, 2012 |
Soooo, why is this under religion? Isn't this about technical aspects of some science? Little to do with what is usually discussed here I think... |
| Islam › Re: Lady Gaga Is Offending Muslims by wiegraf: 1:18am On Oct 07, 2012 |
imperiouxx: Is there anything sensible in your edited plagiarism or what on hell you claim a s s hole?That its best you shut up and let people who know what they are doing represent your positions. You should also work on rhetoric, irony, sarcasm and reading comprehension before you digest that. As your stoopid is rubbing off on me, I'll be gone for now. |
| Islam › Re: Lady Gaga Is Offending Muslims by wiegraf: 1:08am On Oct 07, 2012 |
imperiouxx: You can't compose your s h i t than copy, edit and paste a s s hole!Wtf does this mean? Do you have reading comprehension issues? Read the edit at the end eediot |
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