₦airaland Forum

rabzy: Interesting Thread.

While i would not believe most of the superstitious stuff going round, but the sheer number of people who claim to have witnessed things that are totally unexplainable, the amount of money people have spent to purchase charms to effect some result and the fear people have had for centuries about these powers can not just be dismissed.

I will mention just a few example: A long time ago my uncle lived in a house with a very troublesome landlord, there was a day the man quarrelled with one of the tenant, he told the tenant if he dare come out of his room he is going to die, the tenant said he was just making noise, so the man sprinkled some stuff in the passage/corridor and dared the tenant to come out. The tenant came out and immediately he stepped into the passage the man fell down and die. That was the day my uncle left the house and a number of other tenants also left.

A cargo truck had an accident along the express and some boys accompanying the truck were injured, but nobody could find the driver, while they were looking for him, one of the boys sighted him coming from the opposite direction totally unharmed, when the driver was accosted he denied being in the truck, but people said he should be searched and they found under his clothing charms and amulets, then the guy now owned up. This was witnessed by a friend.

There are other eye-witness accounts of different kinds i have been told, now why would these people just start lying their heads off to me if they did not actually see it happen.
There are too many instances of similar things happening for it just to be coincidence.

You can always discard hearsay. Always

Many people believe some jewish zombie existed 2000 years ago. Exactly how does their belief give merit to their claims??

The first guy, if indeed it occurred similarly to how you narrate it, was poisoned. He now gets to go free because......9ja... Because you people believe in this nonsense.

I cannot speak for the second scenario, but I can tell you that before I'll consider the laws of physics breaking down, something that well, never occurs, I'll consider human folly (via whatever means, intentional or no), which occurs billions of times at any given moment.

ghostofsparta: After you post your update, would reply you.

What I recall was an actual physical trick involving magnets in india or somewhere, but I cannot remember the details. There are also many mentalist tricks, and a few could achieve similar effects, eg the magnetic hand trick.

Derren Brown would likely be a billionaire were he nigerian and he cared to. If you've not seen him in action before, try these. And he's done a lot more, from paying for diamonds with white paper to turning normal brahs into armed robbers. And you don't even have to be susceptible to fall for many of his tricks.

ghostofsparta: @Wiegref

Guy....I appreciate everything science enlighten us with, one of the worthiness of scoence is its willingness to change its views. I just don't think its has all the answers as you've also indirectly agreed ^. Now, I want you and I to investigate what is it that unknown to science that could be responsible for....

I am inviting you along with others (to witness) where you specifically will be asked to place your palm on the ground and certain mumbo jumbo will be said, afterwards asked to remove your palm. Claim is you would find it impossible to draw off your hands no matter the strength you apply, unless it is undone. After you are convinced, hopefully, let you and I now come and reason together on what kind of force unknown to science is involved. Plot a way in which such feat can be channeled to something useful with our scientific mind. Please don't reply statement like: "why wasn't such power use by our ancestors to chain down the invading Europeans" or "use it to go chain down bankworkers and rob the strong room"

I am not in Lagos, I likely wouldn't attend if I were there though. My main issue here is you, or at least many of your peers, seem to think we owe you something; we don't. Well, the more harmful ones deserve comeuppance. I also think encouraging superstition is extremely dangerous. You know how sheeple get with these ideas, yes? These generally aren't the harmless sort of superstitiouns.

What you propose here though is harmless enough, no guns anywhere at least. And it does sound interesting. If indeed they could actually pull it off, I'd enjoy figuring out how they managed it off, no doubt. Puzzles of that manner are to an extant what I live for

Good luck, I hope you strike some sort of gold. Find something that can be properly applied to help others.

Edit: come to think of it, I think I've heard of a similar feat, can't remember clearly though ATM. When I do, I'll update

italo: Yet many Atheists mock we believers for not living life to the full.

Yes.

Not enough time today. Will return if nobody bothers

rationalmind: Lol, that was then. I eventually realised how silly it was trying to attribute the supernatural to the dream. I've had several dreams afterwards n I just laughed at them.

The only thing is, I can't start deleting all the posts I've made on these thread. I don't have the time and the thread won't even make much sense again if I do.

It would be silly to do so, I agree

I never even saw this thread. Far more ridiculous things have occurred and natural explanations found yet this dream somehow means there's the supernatural?

And the churches and their miracles??

There's a video around showing research into patterns. When not stressed, people were asked to look at static from monitors. They called it what it was; gibberish. After exposing them to some good ol stress, made to believe their situations hopeless (using exams actually), they were then asked to look at static again. What did they see? Surprise surprise.........patterns.

In order to make sense of the world, cruel as it is, man's brain can get fairly imaginative. In desperate times it starts seeing things that aren't there, with the hope that there's an answer somewhere. Confirmation bias on steroids, in a manner. You don't even need the study to tell you that as it's fairly evident, but the study does go some way to confirm that.

Notice how people who receive miraculous healing are fairly desperate? Notice how despite all the prayers and vigils, etc, it has never, ever been shown that there is any sort of correlation between prayer and successful treatment? What of all those that prayed, even more so then you, but still died? The many that didn't pray, or prayed to other gods, and did just fine? Or even those looking for miracles with cash, what of all those atheist/jewish billionaires? If anything, considering population ratios, it seems prayer actually makes you poorer. But when desperate and hungry, if the opposite is the only thing you can grasp, the only thing that gives you hope, behold; a pattern that does not exist. Even all that talk about atheists dying and then their suddenly saying "God dey?!?". What is the basis for that? The believe that in desperate times, we'd start to see things that are not there and cave in to the desperation.....

This is a common phenomenon, but one just simply often ignored

The odds of you guessing the right number weren't exactly astronomical, yet you choose to ignore the myriad dreams that amounted to nothing and focus on this one. And you were under stress.....

Mind you a guess or confirmation bias are not the only possible explanations. Other, sometimes bizarre but not necessarily so, natural explanations exist even as of now. Not to mention yet to be discovered science.

na wa

Uyi Iredia: Your brain's really been f*cked for you to think I copy you.

You still lie an xtian. Now that you're....whatever it is you are, you don't need to anymore..

ghostofsparta: Wiegref, truth be told. I'm truly polaxed by your brute reply. In fact, I'm weaken by some of your points, points that have been clawing at me ever since. Don't get me wrong as I do not imply lack of answers to address your posers. However, you typed something that, even my parent sometimes says, which I've always find undeserving.



You have assumed to not only know what I believe in but also to have presented yourself as someone possessing scholarstic view on our ancestral believe system. Well, never mind, just want to point that out. My beliefs are not responsible for any Cancer in our society. However which, it's actually the other way around in terms if its lack and thorough understanding.

I've already addressed this. Think of the same way (unchecked) xtian beliefs cause problems. It's the exact.same.thing.

This is one of the reasons I am particularly aghast at the situation. You see the cancer foreign gods engender, then you turn around and do the exact.same.thing..... What in the world??

I've mentioned it before, einstein's "Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results" is especially apt in these situations.

But feel free the extol the values of yoruba philosophy, there are no doubt many of these. My position is you avoid the cancer, or at least don't expect us to indulge you. At all...

ghostofsparta: ^ yeah you're damn right but what makes you and my parent think I haven't figured a way out for me (and people in general) to use it/them to succeed?

That's why I suggest you use it...

ghostofsparta: I believe in Physics and science, but it's obvious you misunderstood my earlier points, which is ofcourse my fault. Again, what I mean is that science need to stop acting as if it got answers to everything in our reality. Another scholarstic discipline need to be carved out to cater for certain things undetectable and unanalysable with the empirical based science. Yes, I know majority are still yet to convinced of this things I speak of, which is why I'm inviting you or other equally strong Nairaland atheists to come see with your eyes, afterwards we can collectively plot a way in how to properly understand what type of forces makes them so, hence realizing how they can be apply for benevolence purposes (ofcourse, for those who're interested). It's almost impossible doing it alone.

Science never claims it has answers to everything, but what it does, it does right. Not even of stuff directly within its domain. Unquestionably. (mind you, it effects just about everything, one way or the other, but we can ignore that, just for now).

If you have philosophical quibbles look at other disciplines, but claims like yours are clearly in the domain of science. If they could not be certified empirically, then exactly why the hell do you want us there?! To witness something that cannot be witnessed? Are you asking me to come and not empirically verify a levitating man??

ghostofsparta: You are so so right my friend, for instance there has been no electricity supply for almost one year in this town. I know for certain that, there exist a YAS such that when, provided that person is an attacker with the intent to harm you, the instant you are held or touched, no matter how many they are, they get shocked with....I am not sure but allow me to call it....electricity. Please don't reply me that why would one need to harm another through grabbing when you can blast the person with arrow/grenade/firearm from far, because my point is, if I were to possess or knew the formula to create such jazz, I would do what a whiteman would, that is to figure a way on how it can be channeled towards generating electricity for, if not to the community who would think it source must be from the devil or what have you, because it's not from the whites, but for at least for myself. But it is only you atheists I can team up with to achieve such things collectively as blacks to show the world, we have stuff to contribute to world's growing technology.

Nigeria is $hit because of its helpless addiction to foreign religions. Why am I using a scientific method powered device? I don't see how such question imply why you wouldn't accepting the opportunity to witness what seems to far-fetched superstitious claims for yourself.

Good, when you do what "white man will do", which is simply be reasonable, something you seem to suggest black man is incapable of, let me know. I'll sing you praises till the end of time (honestly). Till then, get in line. There are still many nonsense claims from the various abrahamics and what not waiting for my attention. I should take these completely baseless claims seriously because.........??

This is baffling, can't see why...

And for the umpteenth time, these claims cause a shitload of problems, even just entertaining them gives people very, very bad ideas. So no, I do not support entertaining baseless claims just because.

Very simple. Even just a logical framework that could show theoretically how these claims are possible will put some weight behind your claims. You do not possess even that in any manner.


Randoms of sorts;

No disrespect to your parents, but if they are fundie xtians then it's a case of pot and kettle.

I do not doubt your sincerity. That clearly does not mean you are not wrong.

You do deserve credit for at least honoring our traditions over the (mostly barbaric, though that's somewhat irrelevant) abrahamics, no doubt. But perspective, really. Doesn't mean you should just accept nonsense. That's folly. Now, if you're sure your claims aren't nonsense, again, prove me wrong. You don't need me around to do that. You, unlike the genius @uyi, should know you don't exactly need a degree to get peer-reviewed, no? There's nothing stopping you from contacting @folly's Princes Doctors "YorubaName" and collaborating, no? At least we'd start to take you a bit seriously then. That would at least be a somewhat honest attempt. When you have empirical results that can be verified independently elsewhere would be ideal, but at least have a sound logical framework.

You're familiar with japanese, no? You do know quite a few still do things like call priests to come and do incantations and what not to christen new buildings, etc etc, yes? But you do note that they do all of that only after the real work is done, yes? They don't let it get in the way

etc etc

Uyi Iredia: Given your reasoning I would hate to become someone you think reasonable: the Stockholm syndrome may be at play here, preferring an opponent remains so as to being a comrade.

You now mirror what I post? I'm genuinely touched. Never thought you admired me that much

^^^
Welcome back! You gave me a scare there. For a while there I thought you might actually become permanently reasonable.

ghostofsparta: Why have you derailed my thread?





My brother, all you Nairaland atheists have a cogent point. But, please don't assume whatever we claim is as easily demonstrable as described. I know the burden of proof is on us.

I am very young guy who strives to make ends meet, and who just so happen to be interested in the supernatural from the get go. I cope with everyday challenges in Nigeria in terms of it hardship as I believe most of us know. If I have a token of Davido's wealth, I'm off to Fort Lauderdale to engage Randi's paranormal challenge, perhaps also to live in a society where I wouldn't bother about other problems so as to comfortably complete and publish my book.

My curiosity began with my affixation to science at a much younger age. Its attempts to always provide answers and its propensity to accomplish the implausible had always intrigued me. I've read Isaac Asimov, Von Daniken, C. Clarke etc, however all through the years as I gradually realised of how handicapped the same science I so hopelessly admire and respect find it difficult to explain several phenomenon such as the Death's Valley sailing stone and the Bermuda Triangle mysteries among others, so have I been bombarded with similar paranormal happenings here, though diametric in scope. It took quite long to completely shed off the handcuffs of Christian religion before deciding to investigate these local claims given my scientific curiosity. I, started off by really asking and analysing these claims, and as I confirmed I gradually leaned more on our ancestral believe system, of which I came to realize an aspect of it popularly but erroneously known as juju, it is this misunderstanding of juju that I saw reason to be deemed; Yoruba Advanced Sciences, or all altogether. I stumbled from one forum to the other searching for similar stuff found in ours or possible explanations to this bewildering discovery, especially at where topics bordering on the supernature were frequently discussed. Given how defensive I was to my claims, some at Atheist Republic believed I myself is susceptible to those kind of what to them is a whole different kind of false and ridiculous claims without any evidence or proof to back myself up. Later, I realized how stupid I was to be claiming before foreigners living in a clime different to ours , but what about my fellow blacks here who happened to be atheistic, you all seem to be as dogmatic as the Abrahamic religionists we all love to debunk. I wonder if atheism has a decree that states no atheists shall ever offer the slightest attention to any demonstrable claims of the supernatural.

Guys, you are here in Nigeria, and those of you in Yorubaland, I dont see any reason why you cant from your cocoon of jujuphobia/juju-ignoramus visit a Babalawo and ask to know whether jazz exist or not, and yet here I am offering how the strongest atheists here can meet up with me to witness any selected one out of some few listed jaz I am willing to make preparation for, instead you all are busy trivializing everything rather than man-up and take up the gauntlet.
For those of you mocking Kanoko, its obvious you know nothing. In this town where I am they have it in many variant.

Only if some of you mocking Kanoko knew how I am controlling myself from insulting you base on your ignorance. You all view all these stuff like you think of a torch light device that you can switch on and off just like that, Kanoko doesnt function as some of you comically falsely presume. It is different from Egbe that teleports human from a danger spot to a safe zone. What Kanoko does is to reduce time taken, by shortening the distance one is supposed to walk. It works but has a mild consequence which I believe can be perfected which is where I need you black atheists to focus your intelligence on after hopefully convincing you. Kanoko nor Egbe arent meant for such long distance as from Lagos to New York. I haven't heard of any tangible YAS that can do precisely that, but I am aware there are other deeply supernatural means that can achieved what you jokingly talk about i.e. Flying to overseas, let's leave that for now.

Despite patience spent, as we've not communicated directly I'll reply to this. But I don't have sponsors either to support writing the novels that would address all that's wrong here. From bermuda triangle to kanokos. And for the most part it's all been said before...

Anyways, picking some bits, for one, you're asking us for a pass because we're black. That's silly. If anything, we should be harder on you since it's our society we're talking about. Those oyinbos that might have derided you would be a lot harder on their own ranks if they smell this kind of folly in their midst. These your beliefs are responsible for a lot of CANCER in our own society (note: not theirs), unquestionably. Good people doing bad things, yet you expect us to give you a pass? No, you don't deserve a break. Not at all, in any language, shape, form or manner. And considering that, it's rather risible of you all to think you somehow have the moral highground here.

If your jazz works it's really simple, really.simple; use it (to succeed). What in the world do you care what some online community thinks? If your jazz objectively works, you really do not have to waste time here convincing anyone. Just as with xtians and their god, considering those claims if yahweh really existed do you think we'd be debating it?

Feel free to not believe in the physics behind your computing device (and you actually somehow don't....) but guess what? It works regardless of your opinion. You're using it right now, no? And oyinbo will continue to make a killing, not to mention enrichen lives. This is ABC

And your talk of being in an African environment therefore we should have noticed these things, I'm tempted to ask if you're on drugs. Look at what is patently obvious; Nigeria is at the very bottom of the food chain. Life here is utter $hit for most, nothing works, our ancestors were enslaved, etc etc, yet you claim we have some super duper secrets that makes the pain go away.......

If it worked, then why the hell is 9ja $hit??!! Why are you even using a scientific method powered device to read this rather than your jazz?? The hypocrisy, from so many angles, befuddles.

Again, look at the xtians. Their god loves them and is omnixx.x yet he lets 10,000 of them die. Let's people die horribly, does nothing about the thousands of children that will die this very night due to sheer hunger and nothing else. You have the ultimate technology yet we don't even assemble tube tvs in this country (let's not even consider innovating). So what exactly are we supposed to have noticed? That we're clearly foo.ling ourselves?

You addressed nothing with this, if anything you highlighted more problems we've been ignoring.

Now, feel free to indulge in whatever nonsense you want to believe, but expecting us to indulge you as well....

Really, who do you guys think you are?

rationalmind: Its a waste of my precious time replying you. You seem to have problems with comprehension.

If your comprehensive skills are anything like your logical skills, I highly doubt you're an expert on comprehensive abilities.

For instance, if you think I'm being close minded, then you cannot tell why I discard those claims.

Your folly, impressive...just the beginning mind you....

macof: Be careful not to mock my people

And you mock xtians like @josh...

rationalmind: I can tell why you dismiss those things but I will never dismiss it for those reasons until I see and verify it myself. I don't think that's difficult to understand.

What in the world, do you have amnesia or something?

You have specifically called us close minded for disregarding the unadulterated nonsense that is the op and other claims (esp those from follycraze).

And exactly who told you you cannot go watch ghostofsparta's side show?

Uyi Iredia: Shifting scope. I wish you were in the country to come and verify. We need at least 2 respected Nairaland atheists as witnesses. Weigraf has chickened out.

@ plaetton: Are you available to test these claims ?

I never said I was in lagos, that's what the 'no' was for. And I repeat, please, if you're going to be there do have an exit strategy. And use a goat or something. To be fair though even if I were available I doubt I'd be anywhere near them, for various reasons.

If they're really interested in proving themselves there's randi and CNN, or better yet publish a paper for all to see. Simple. We can then verify their claims, no?

I remember seeing a story on cnn about an indian lady that investigated some claims about the medicinal benefits of so and so root. Took it to a lab, etc, and guess what, she made quite a killing. Even better, this knowledge now betters thousands of lives, she didn't even seem motivated by the money per say. That is doing it right.

These clowns on the other hand..... Like kiddies and their power mike toys.. Batman can beat superman..

That asides, I'm respected. You think I'm awesome, don't you? Admit it and shame god

nnofaith: May be we should embrace oyinbo spirituality because Criss Angels is one mean magician going by follycraze's logic

Good point. However, how would we be able to call people closeminded and sellouts if we do that?

nnofaith: If you want to see cool tricks tune to Criss Angels or David Copperfield.

Derren Brown

But his tricks actually require attention.... They are not cheap, just look and wow tricks..

Not that these are cheap mind you.. That guy on discovery though, the one with arab decent, cheap...

Correction. Can't help it...

rationalmind: Lol, read the bolded again and go back to read your previous message.

That I'm openminded doesn't mean I'll accept whatever the guy says. I've not told you I believe in jazz myself. I chatted with ghostofsparta and made my stance known to him. I will never however dismiss what proof he has until I examine the proof.

The bolded is correct, even for us. Being openminded does not mean you have to accept what I say, for instance. That's silly

rationalmind: And for disagreeing with them, you become a moro.n.

No one is foolish here, I'll be the first to dismiss it if I find out what he calls proof is just a trick or pure nonsense. But I will never do that without even examining the proof.

But this bolded is....foo.lish. That's not why you're a m.oron. If you really can't tell why we dismiss this nonsense, after all this, then.... you see my point?

Well, you don't.

rationalmind: You are a fool and an idio.t. That's a fact, objectively so. Makes sense, doesn't it?

No it doesn't, but enjoy your folly.

Listen, you're genuinely.....foo.lish. That's not my fault...

For one, openminded != gullible and m.oronic. That's already been pointed out btw

Anyways, this time I'll really leave y'all alone to your stellar reasoning. I'll go pretend to be mature elsewhere

Uyi Iredia: @ Jayrginal and wiegraf: Are you guys based in Lagos? Ghostofsparta is inviting dudes to test his claim of the existence of jazz. He has gotten folks from where he lives in Ogun to agree to allow their jazz be tested and recorded. Are you willing to come ?

Lol no. I hope observers have escape plans set

macof: A stupid ignorant fool is wat best describes you.

I'll keep telling u that u dont know anything

Hmm, and you do? Explain away, abi mysteriousnessesess? Sounds familiar?

Why didn't you use jazz to respond me na?

Kudos to you clowns



Ahhh, but keep up the respect for the forefathers. At least you're doing that bit right..

rationalmind: .



You don't have to resort to insults. People won't always have to agree.

I still don't agree with most of the things you said but the mere presence of the insults pissed me off replying.

You seem confused, insults where? Those are facts, objectively so. With thinking like that you probably still answer "president of 9ja!" when asked what do you want to be when you grow up.

I have wasted enough time on you mor.ons btw, and there's obviously nothing to gain. So please, do ignore.

Deep Sight: Lol, abeg na joke o.

lol I know oga

[s]And not because I once scoured the land in search of these creatures of lore. I would have had better luck finding mami water methinks. Though this was years ago.[/s]

^^^
Strippers don't pay themselves. Get to it

Come to think of it, do those in these country claim they're using it to pay for uni as well? Ask them abeg

Joshthefirst: for petes sake?

1. If your unconscious god(nature) does not have a conscious intent, how does it create machines as you claim, that have an intent to perform an action and cannot but fulfil programming?

Blindly.

The sun shining just happens to perform a function beneficial to us, it now is a machine to us, no? But it, along with the trillions of stars in this universe, weren't exactly built or planned, no? Hope you don't think this ginormous universe was specially custom-built just for special us?

Joshthefirst: Machine:
A machine is a tool containing one or more parts that uses energy to perform an intended action.

2. You just acknowledged that machines do not have freewill.
This shows that man is not a machine as he has freewill. You're contrsdicting yourself.
You cannot state that man does not have freewill, or else he would not be responsible for his actions. Or else the law(even human law) would bear no weight. And there would be lawlessness. Men truly becoming animals. This is what you get by teaching children that they're animals or machines that don't have freewill. They start to act like animals and create a scenario in which they aren't morally responsible for anything, since they are programmed as it were.

Do you have problem reading simple sentences. I clearly stated man has no freewill.

Man is an animal.

No there won't be lawlessness, nor is there any reason to believe there would be. There isn't lawlessness now, is there?

rationalmind: Yea, there is a point which is that, until you do it, I will never take what you said serious about people doing it everywhere.

Bros, that is mor.onic. I'm likely wasting time with you as well. You think my hearsay is more valuable than something well tested and documented objectively?? There are also people that stick pins through their limbs and even torsos, well documented as well, perhaps those people don't exist? Simply watch jackass or dirty sanchez (in particular) to see how far eediocy can be taken.

Anyways, objective stuff exists regardless of opinion. Actually, inverse true as well. Your ancestors who believed they were armed with bullet proof vests, well....

rationalmind: Maybe I didn't explain how my friend really told me. He said they were in a joint drinking when an old man came to meet them claiming to possess various charms. He told them the charms he had and they all started laughing at him. The man told them he can prove it and they agreed only on the condition that someone neutral will do it so it doesn't appear he's just playing tricks on them. They all were afraid to test it until someone summoned up courage to put the charm on his left hand and eat the razor blade. It was a new one they just bought. He told me the guy ate it and spitted nothing.

The bolded says it all. Not to mention, even if genuine, the baba could easily have been in cahoots with with whoever sold you the razor. Or he could have simply used some slight of hand to replace the razor, etc etc.

Or you know what, maybe he even did really eat a genuine razor as, surprise surprise, people do eat sharp objects and come out unscathed. Let's not even consider other species, sharks do it all the time for instance...

rationalmind: This was what I told you and you dismissed it saying its common knowledge and various videos on youtube show people doing it. Good. Then you should also do it yourself. Remb it was also that guys first time of ever eating the razor blade.

Are you on drugs? What in the world makes you think it isn't dangerous? What sort of primary school thinking do you possess?

Joshthefirst: who built humans wiegraf. I always thought you were an atheist. I didn't know you were just agnostic.

Who says I'm agnostic? Don't use that dirty word to describe me. I've already told you who "built" humans.

Joshthefirst: smh.
So does nature(or evolution) have intent or not?

So you aren't an atheist then? Since you believe that nature is the creator and God?

And, following the bible, Gods intent for creating man is to do His will. But man shows his freewill by either choosing or refusing to do Gods will.

Nature does not have a conscious intent. Blindly doing its thing through time.

The bolded is correct. Who said anything about god??

So according to your bible man uses energy to attain a goal. Exactly what is a machine again?

PhenomenonVFX: DeepSight go home u are drunk.
U are just throwing tantrums around like a child and yet to say anything meaningful.

When u sober up, explain how pain is a sign of consciousness. And tell me what happens if a conscious animal loses its ability to feel pain. Does it lose his consciousness thus?

And yes transfering consciousness to robots is not pseudo scientific ramble. It has bases in sound science and has been supported by higher humans than u. You are yet to refute any claims made here soundly. Please do so.

Note: when u reply me, talk. Dont just ramble with childish petulance.

All those non-sentient species that feel pain don't seem to exist...
Or folk born without the ability to feel pain..

He just makes flowery statements like that because they make him appear deep to sheeple, they don't necessarily make sense.

Joshthefirst: You sure say wiegraf never run commot?

Are you drunk as well?