₦airaland Forum

Abeg, what's the difference between this and the illuminati crap? Or the 'end of days' drivel? Heck, talking snakes. He's just being a good xtian

I'd be googling for se.x tapes, typical celeb style. But considering the kind of se.x these guys have..

Etc etc

This paper seems to be desperate for clicks.....

truthislight: Sharrap !

Dead conscience !

How dear you say that after your kind infected an uninform kid ?

It seems this is a matter close to your heart. Is there something we should know?

Let us consider the catholic churce, here's a survey they had

wiki: In the United States the 2004 John Jay Report commissioned and funded by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) was based on volunteer surveys completed by the Roman Catholic dioceses in the United States. The 2004 John Jay Report was based on a study of 10,667 allegations against 4,392 priests accused of engaging in sexual abuse of a minor between 1950 and 2002

More than 10 percent of these allegations were characterized as not substantiated because diocese or order could not determine whether the alleged abuse actually took place

The 4,392 priests who were accused amount to approximately 4% of the 109,694 priests in active ministry during that time.

The allegations were substantiated for 1,872 priests and unsubstantiated for 824 priests. They were thought to be credible for 1,671 priests and not credible for 345 priests. 298 priests and deacons who had been completely exonerated are not included in the study.

I don't know about you, but even leaving a margin for error, that's quite a lot of hypocrisy. Actually, not so straightforward as these are ped.os, some of which happen to be gay, but you get the point.

And on the subject of how inane your comment is, yarima is straight, no? I propose we ban and demonize heterosexuality. I mean, he's actually trying legally acknowledge ped.o marriages, no?

You'd rather place the blame for the large percentage of ped.os amongst your ranks on another population, one that has nothing to do with the shenanigans of your MOG and their penchant for young kids, and demonize said population. Last I checked, gheys were simply trying to live open, productive lives, I don't ever recall their endorsing ped.ophillia unlike yarima (except for NAMBLA.. , though I doubt they represent the interests of the average homosexual). Yet they cannot live said lives because of a$$holes of your caliber who irrationally demonize them, and yet you seek to blame them for this? You're a real piece of $hit.

Also, what's an 'uninform kid'?

truthislight: leave him, he is "exercising his right to have sex with whomever he wishes to".

" What concerns me or you with who an adult wishes to sleep with" ?

"who am i to judge gay people" ?

"What any body does in his room is none of your business".

Smh.

You have a point, as the boy was a consenting adult. And we've never heard of heterosexual ra.pe before.

Focus on your hipocrisy, rather than demonize people minding their business.

As with islam, xtianity cannot take the blame. Even as slavers directly quoted the book to justify their actions

anony: I wonder what the relevance of this is considering that I have already shown you a causal link between increase in non-physical knowledge and increase in physical brain mass

DOHOHOOHOHOHOHOHO...

Wait, you're actually serious??!

You quote a study which in no way validates your conclusion, and even assuming (emphasis on assuming please) it actually did, just the one against MOUNTAINS of evidence against, and you've now "shown you a causal link between increase in non-physical knowledge and increase in physical brain mass"? Against all knows laws of nature, of cause and effect?!

If they actually (inadvertenly) proved that, then by all means, give them nobel, they can share with @david. Here are some clues as to what engendered the research though

your article linked, BBC:
Brain changes

The hippocampus (REMEMBER THE "NOTE" ABOVE?) is at the front of the brain and was examined in Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) scans on 16 London cabbies.

The tests found the only area of the taxi drivers' brains that was different from the 50 other "control" subjects was the left and right hippocampus.

"The front of the hippocampus was smaller in the taxi drivers compared to the controls.

"This is very interesting because we now see there can be structural changes in healthy human brains."

The posterior hippocampus was also more developed in taxi drivers who had been in the career for 40 years than in those who had been driving for a shorter period.

David Cohen from the London Cab Drivers' Club said he was surprised by the findings: "I never noticed part of my brain growing - it makes you wonder what happened to the rest of it.

"You do have to have a retentive memory but you also need a placid temperament to drive in London traffic," he added.

Parkinson's disease

The UCL researchers think evidence that the brain is able to change physically according to the way it is used could have important implications for people with brain damage or diseases such as Parkinson's.

Dr Maguire said: "It has long been thought that if there's damage to the brain there's only a limited amount of plasticity in an adult that can help them recover.

"Now direct things in the environment, like navigation, appear to show changes in the brain. So we could in the future see some rehabilitation programmes that use that kind of knowledge."

Dr Maguire's research is published in the US scientific journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

And I hope I don't have to explain why I keep leaving in all the references to Parkinson's, etc. I guess pleasing god is more important than aiding lives in this world, hence the need to input your drivel into this.

anony: And this relates to the point you are trying to make. How?

So you think that is needless, yet you thought informing me of your completely baseless, silly opinion is not? You do realize that was a response to an inanity in your own post, yes?

anony: This is mere infantile mockery that has nothing to do with the argument I'm making. Please address the example I have given you if you want me to take you seriously.

I do, I so much want you to take me seriously.

Mr anony: When you are ready to answer and actually have a reasonable discourse, look me up.

me: This is a bit like a cripple asking me to call him up whenever I want to take a jog. What have I done to make you think I would want to do that?

me: I do this simply to inform any readers intelligent but ignorant (and there are many valid reasons for one to be ignorant of various subtleties in these topics)

Of your many laudable qualities, I think your buffoonish, pompous, denseness is the one I like the best.

anony: This does not change the fact that the software is clearly distinct from the hardware it controls. I never said software was spiritual. Please stick to the point and seive out the strawmen

Erm, bros, your delirious associate, @davidylan, forgot to take his medication and dropped by vomiting nonsense about how I was being irrelevant and made a fool of himself, and you intend to grasp at thst straw and hold on to it?

Let me state again, you are either rather stoopid or dishonest if you cannot see the relevance. And it seems to be the latter, given how earlier on you did not understand how the computer analogy relates to this discussion but suddenly comprehended it once I used it to 'mock' you.

You never said software was physical, but you do assert consciousness can manifest/exist without the physical, and I'm clearly using software to represent consciousness in my analogies.

But yes, you don't understand them.

me: Irrelevant fodder

Please see above.

me: Since I have clearly shown you that the nature of muscular strain is very different from the nature of "mental strain", you'll have to come up with something better to explain exactly how non-physical knowledge translates to physical matter.

........

anony stopgap: Don't trip over yourself. Your hope that conscious AI will become a reality does not count as empirical evidence.

And you ignore the point, which is they work using similar principles. I can thereby program something to 'believe', nothing special. In fact, I do that all the time. My software trusts me as, well, it has no choice. See?

We've not yet encountered/gotten to conscious mechanical software, true, but we'll eventually get to that. And don't use words as silly as 'hope' in this contexts, that's for you deluded.

anony stopgap: I never made any such acknowledgement

I'm sorry, you must not be anony, messrs stopgap. I recall anony posting this, just in case he intends to brush it off.

anony: I hope you do realize that you are making a huge jump backed with zero empirical evidence that you can make non-conscious [size=16pt]MATTER[/size] develop a subjective reality.

That looks to me like an acknowledgement of matter being the basis. Or you can have non-conscious without matter? Like I've told you


[size=25pt]SHOW ME[/size]

anony: It is funny how on the one hand you thank me for "acknowledging something" only to turn around and say that the very statement you happily agreed with is now false and then proceed to "correct" me by stating what you have already said that I acknowledged. talk about confusion.

Indeed, you have no idea what you're on about. Or you do and you're just slavishly trying to please your master. You should consider @alfa's god, he does not ask for such blind devotion.

anony: Lol, built from matter? Sorry but you are merely assuming the initial point here. You have not shown a causal relationship between unconscious matter and consciousness at best you have only shown an attribute of the human being.

Yes, when a brain suffers physical trauma which leads to wholesale personality changes, that has nothing to do with matter. Or now that we're putting memories into mice, memories being a core part of consciousness, that has nothing to do with matter. And most pertinently to this point, the fact that a fetus does not have the required tools, full functioning brain and CNS, to support consciousness has nothing to do whatsoever with consciousness. It's incapable of doing so without this completely nonexistent existent spirit power.

Again, show me where this aberration of nature exists, or kindly sharrap. You just might have had a very miniscule smell of a case if that were the only option, but it very, very, VERY, clearly is not. Rather than CPU, monitor, web cam etc, it's an undetectable detectable piano player. Makes a lot more sense....

What are you smoking?

anony: Saying that the human being grows to be conscious and therefore matter causes consciousness is similar to saying that palm trees grow to be large green trees and therefore matter causes the color green. That is fallacious reasoning; a thing does not cause the characteristics that describe it.

me: PS: I won't waste any more time on any of your silly antics, so if you respond, please attempt to be at least reasonable.

Because being tall is the same thing as tallness. Or being fat is the same thing as fat. Or being a liar is the same thing as lies.

Tallness, fatness, green, goats, lies, foo.lishness, whatever, all, and note, rely on the physical to manifest. All rely on the laws of physics/nature to manifest. You see the basic trend here? Cause and effect, and always with a physical basis. We've not been able to even conceive (except maybe quantum crazy, already adrressed) otherwise, as that makes no sense.

That seed, or the laws of nature/physics/matter to be precise, are responsible for that tree being green. The laws make no room for your spiritual nonsense. Nothing manifests without a physical base. Even your thoughts, which are the results of physical functions in your brain. Hope that's clear?

anony: Here you are comparing two things that are not true in the same sense. When you perform straining muscular exercise, your muscles get physically stretched and torn then they heal and are compensated for with more tissue. This accounts for the increase in muscle mass that you see.
Increase in brain mass on the other hand does not result in a physical stretching in the same way a muscle is stretched. Sorry my friend but you have not shown an analogous relationship here.

Because biological organs do not grow (how many times did I emphasize the word?), and all the time at that. Or consider even healing, when we develope tissue to heal wounds, or when lizards take it to level of regrowing their lost tails. All these, what a strange phenomena, biological organs growing. I've never seen that happen before! It must be spirits!!

Also, the only sort of strain a biological organ/tissue could go through is the sort muscle goes through while exercising.

Let's see what googlod thinks. Well, at least, his chosen son, wikisus. Please, read it all

wiki: Neurogenesis (birth of neurons) is the process by which neurons are generated from neural stem and progenitor cells. Most active during pre-natal development, neurogenesis is responsible for populating the growing brain with neurons. Recently neurogenesis was shown to continue in several small parts of the brain of mammals: the hippocampus (!!!NOTE THIS, WE'LL GET TO IT) and the subventricular zone. Studies have indicated that hormones, such as testosterone in vertebrates and ecdysone in invertebrates, have an influence on the rate of neurogenesis.

Occurrence in adults

New neurons are continually born throughout adulthood in predominantly two regions of the brain:

-The subventricular zone (SVZ) lining the lateral ventricles, where neural stem cells and progenitor generate new neurons (Neuroblast) that migrate to the olfactory bulb via the rostral migratory stream
-The subgranular zone (SGZ), part of the dentate gyrus of hippocampus.

Many of the newborn cells die shortly after they are born, but a number of them become functionally integrated into the surrounding brain tissue.

Adult neurogenesis is an example of a long-held scientific theory being further studied. Early neuroanatomists, including Santiago Ramón y Cajal, considered the nervous system fixed and incapable of regeneration. The first evidence of adult mammalian neurogenesis in the cerebral cortex was presented by Joseph Altman in 1962,[3] followed by a demonstration of adult neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus of the hippocampus in 1963.[4] In 1969, Joseph Altman discovered and named the rostral migratory stream as the source of adult generated granule cell neurons in the olfactory bulb.[5] Up until the 1980s, the scientific community ignored these findings despite use of the most direct method of demonstrating cell proliferation in the early studies, i. e. 3H-thymidine autoradiography. By that time, Shirley Bayer[6][7] (and Michael Kaplan) again showed that adult neurogenesis exists in mammals (rats), and Nottebohm showed the same phenomenon in birds[8] sparking renewed interest in the topic. Studies in the 1990s[9][10] finally put research on adult neurogenesis into a mainstream pursuit. Also in the early 1990s hippocampal neurogenesis was demonstrated in non-human primates and humans.[11][12] More recently, neurogenesis in the cerebellum of adult rabbits has also been characterized.[13] Further, some authors (particularly Elizabeth Gould) have suggested that adult neurogenesis may also occur in regions within the brain not generally associated with neurogenesis including the neocortex.[14][15][16] However, others[17] have questioned the scientific evidence of these findings, arguing that the new cells may be of glial origin. Recent research has elucidated the regulatory effect of GABA on neural stem cells. GABA's well-known inhibitory effects across the brain also affect the local circuitry that triggers a stem cell to become dormant. They found that diazepam (Valium) has a similar effect.[18]

Role in learning

The functional relevance of adult neurogenesis is uncertain,[19] but there is some evidence that hippocampal adult neurogenesis is important for learning and memory.[20] Multiple mechanisms for the relationship between increased neurogenesis and improved cognition have been suggested, including computational theories to demonstrate that new neurons increase memory capacity,[21] reduce interference between memories,[22] or add information about time to memories.[23] Experiments aimed at ablating neurogenesis have proven inconclusive, but several studies have proposed neurogenic-dependence in some types of learning,[24] and others seeing no effect.[25] Studies have demonstrated that the act of learning itself is associated with increased neuronal survival.[26] However, the overall findings that adult neurogenesis is important for any kind of learning are equivocal.


Effects of stress

Adult-born neurons appear to have a role in the regulation of stress.[27][28] Studies have linked neurogenesis to the beneficial actions of specific antidepressants, suggesting a connection between decreased hippocampal neurogenesis and depression.[29][30] In a pioneer study, scientists demonstrated that the behavioral benefits of antidepressant administration in mice is reversed when neurogenesis is prevented with x-irradiation techniques.[31] In fact, newborn neurons are more excitable than older neurons due to a differential expression of GABA receptors.[citation needed] A plausible model, therefore, is that these neurons augment the role of the hippocampus in the negative feedback mechanism of the HPA-axis (physiological stress) and perhaps in inhibiting the amygdala (the region of brain responsible for fearful responses to stimuli).[vague] Indeed, suppression of adult neurogenesis can lead to an increased HPA-axis stress response in mildly stressful situations.[27] This is consistent with numerous findings linking stress-relieving activities (learning, exposure to a new yet benign environment, and exercise) to increased levels of neurogenesis, as well as the observation that animals exposed to physiological stress (cortisol) or psychological stress (e.g. isolation) show markedly decreased levels of newborn neurons. Interestingly, under chronic stress conditions, the elevation of newborn neurons by antidepressants improves the hippocampal-dependent control on the stress response; without newborn neurons, antidepressants are unable to restore the regulation of the stress response and recovery becomes impossible.[28]

Some studies have hypothesized that learning and memory are linked to depression, and that neurogenesis may promote neuroplasticity. One study proposes that mood may be regulated, at a base level, by plasticity, and thus not chemistry. Accordingly, the effects of antidepressant treatment would only be secondary to change in plasticity.[32]


Effects of sleep reduction

One study has linked lack of sleep to a reduction in rodent hippocampal neurogenesis. The proposed mechanism for the observed decrease was increased levels of glucocorticoids. It was shown that two weeks of sleep deprivation acted as a neurogenesis-inhibitor, which was reversed after return of normal sleep and even shifted to a temporary increase in normal cell proliferation.[33] More precisely, when levels of corticosterone are elevated, sleep deprivation inhibits this process. Nonetheless, normal levels of neurogenesis after chronic sleep deprivation return after 2 weeks, with a temporary increase of neurogenesis. (http://www.pnas.org/content/103/50/19170.full) While this is recognized, overlooked is the blood glucose demand exhibited during temporary diabetic hypoglycemic states. The American Diabetes Association amongst many documents the pseudosenilia and agitation found during temporary hypoglycemic states. Much more clinical documentation is needed to competently demonstrate the link between decreased hematologic glucose and neuronal activity and mood.


Possible use in treating Parkinson's disease

Parkinson's disease is a neurodegenerative disorder characterized by a progressive loss of dopaminergic neurons in the nigrostriatal projection. Transplantation of fetal dopaminergic precursor cells has paved the way for the possibility of a cell replacement therapy that could ameliorate clinical symptoms in affected patients. [34] Recent years have provided evidence for the existence of neural stem cells with the potential to produce new neurons, particularly of a dopaminergic phenotype, in the adult mammalian brain.[35][36][37] Experimental depletion of dopamine in rodents decreases precursor cell proliferation in both the subependymal zone and the subgranular zone.[38] Proliferation is restored completely by a selective agonist of D2-like (D2L) receptors.[38] Neural stem cells have been identified in the neurogenic brain regions, where neurogenesis is constitutively ongoing, but also in the non-neurogenic zones, such as the midbrain and the striatum, where neurogenesis is not thought to occur under normal physiological conditions.[34] A detailed understanding of the factors governing adult neural stem cells in vivo may ultimately lead to elegant cell therapies for neurodegenerative disorders such as Parkinson's disease by mobilizing autologous endogenous neural stem cells to replace degenerated neurons.[34]


Effects of exercise

Scientists have shown that physical activity in the form of voluntary exercise results in an increase in the number of newborn neurons in the hippocampus of aging mice. The same study demonstrates an enhancement in learning of the "runner" (physically active) mice.[39][40] Other research demonstrated that exercising mice that did not produce beta-endorphin, a mood-elevating hormone, had no change in neurogenesis. Yet, mice that did produce this hormone, along with exercise, exhibited an increase in newborn cells and their rate of survival.[41] While the association between exercise-mediated neurogenesis and enhancement of learning remains unclear, this study could have strong implications in the fields of aging and/or Alzheimer's disease.


Changes in old age

Neurogenesis is substantially reduced in the hippocampus of aged animals, raising the possibility that it may be linked to age-related declines in hippocampal function. Given that neurogenesis occurs throughout life, it might be expected that the hippocampus would steadily increase in size during adulthood, and that therefore the number of granule cells would be increased in aged animals. However, this is not the case, indicating that proliferation is balanced by cell death. Thus, it is not the addition of new neurons into the hippocampus that seems to be linked to hippocampal functions, but rather the rate of turnover of granule cells.[42]


Alzheimer's disease

Allopregnanolone, a neurosteroid, aids the continued neurogenesis in the brain. Levels of allopregnanolone in the brain decline in old age and Alzheimer's disease.[43] Allopregnanolone has been shown through reversing impairment of neurogenesis to reverse the cognitive deficits in a mouse model of Alzheimer's disease.[44]

So many possibilities, so many avenues to explore, arguments and counter arguments, so many definite answers as well, all natural. Even plasticity is thrown into the mix as a hypothesis. However; spirits!!

Also, I suppose all the other animals that show this increase have spirits as well, no?


EDITS

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2021502762_apmlsaudiwebforumsentence.html

seattle times: Prison, lashes for liberal Saudi web forum founder


The founder of a liberal-minded website in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced to seven years in prison and 600 lashes after angering Islamic authorities in the ultraconservative kingdom, a newspaper reported Tuesday.

Raif Badawi, through his website known as Free Saudi Liberals, had urged Saudis to share opinions about the role of religion in the country, which follows a strict form of Islam that includes harsh punishments for challenging customs.

A judge in the Red Sea port of Jiddah imposed the sentences but dropped charges of apostasy, which could have brought a death sentence, the Al-Watan newspaper reported. Badawi has been held since June 2012.

The newspaper did not name the judge who sentenced Badawi, nor did it say when the ruling was handed down. It was unclear Tuesday whether Badawi would receive any credit for the time he's already served.

Jen Psaki, a State Department spokeswoman, said Tuesday that the U.S. was "deeply concerned" by the sentence given to Badawi.

"We believe that when public speech is deemed offensive, be it via social media or any other means, the issue is best addressed through open dialogue and honest debate," Psaki said.

Hard-line Saudi clerics have raised repeated objections to social media, including one prominent Islamic scholar describing Twitter as a path to hell. He later withdrew the comment.

In before it has nothing to do with religion. Muslims obviously have no issues discussing the 'benefits' (please note the quotes) of the system but once criticism arises, the gateman goes on about 'you're here to cause trouble', bans, etc etc

In before take it to the cancer ward, they don't let me in anymore, and any mod can move it there if need be. However,[s] in order to prevent its censure, let's say[/s] it also relates to all religions, and an idividual's right's to question beliefs.

Not much to say, just reactions.

And wow, apostasy can carry the death sentence? Interesting..

Guitarlife: tunji is an educated man no doubt but we all know what religion can turn a man into? I rather feel sorry for the poor young man . Imagine having to be the one saddled with the responsibility of cleaning up the battered image of a religion and at the same time responsible for coordinating the religious facade movement on such a big forum as nairaland. I bet you would be more aggressive if it were you. So let's all just show some empathy okay?

Yes, let's tolerate his intolerance. Why don't we?

noblefada: Let me say this, pls u guys should stop calling xtianity a white man's religion, its a Jewish religion Joh 4:22 UKJV All of you worship all of you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

What an excellent point!

noblefada: Joh 4:22 UKJV All of you worship all of you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Arguably even better...

plaetton: ^^^^^
The universe, evolves, galaxies evolve. Who could ever think that biological life , contained within the galaxies and universe, could somehow, be exempt from evolution

Evolution is a scientifically accepted theory.
A fact, as I am concerned(of course, open to modification as new knowledge is available)

To Anti-evolutionists, I can only say,
Sorry, but you have to live with it.

As you like to say; change remains the only constant

Mr anony: I wonder how exactly you would go about programming a machine to believe. I hope you do realize that you are making a huge jump backed with zero empirical evidence that you can make non-conscious matter develop a subjective reality. That idea only happens in science fiction.

Here, I've never used them myself but I understand they're fairly good

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/computer-science

I'd rather something .net but I understand python is the rave these days. When we do come about AI, I wonder what your excuse will be? Should we just give up on researching that as you seem to be implying it would be fruitless? I mean, sp.irit power isn't science, I believe you'll agree with me on that, yes? But regardless...

Note the words you used...

anony: I hope you do realize that you are making a huge jump backed with zero empirical evidence that you can make non-conscious MATTER develop a subjective reality.

I hope you do realize that you just acknowledged that matter is the basis for consciousness, thanks. Indeed, it's the basis for everything that manifests. As far as this universe is concerned, no matter/energy = nothing. Absolutely. So how you expect consciousness to exist without matter befuddles me.. Again, show us this occurring..

And on top of all that, the statement is actually....FALSE. You do realize this happens all the time, or please do show me a conscious sperm cell, or even a conscious embryo.

Notice how consciousness is built from matter, notice how it... grows. We'll get to that..

anony: I agree totally that there is a cause for every effect however I do not subscribe to the notion that the cause and effect is and can only be physical matter causing an effect in physical matter.
Consider this research for example about London taxi cab drivers whose brains increase in physical size as they learn the London road network. That is clear evidence of non-physical knowledge causing a physical effect. So my friend, I'm afraid you are wrong here. non-physical causes do accomplish physical effects.

What's with the declarations of victory?

Now, I decide to get off my lazy ass and work out, building some muscle. I put on a few pounds, etc, are you saying sp.irit power was responsible for my muscle mass or weight gain?

Are you saying the various forms of life don't... grow.... Or they do, but sp.irit power runs it? Perhaps prayers are responsible?

As stated earlier, this is; ludicrous

As for the italicized, you do not subscribe to it? Cool, but why should I care? You can believe in flying spaghetti, that does not alter reality in any manner whatsoever.

anony: Secondly, you have asked me to show you a man without a brain being conscious and I will ask you what is this man supposed to look like bearing in mind that consciousness like knowledge is a non-physical thing?
I have already shown you that the fact that you can control the activities of your brain is evidence that you are distinct from your brain. If you want further evidence than that, then you'll have to describe what this evidence you seek is supposed to look like.

You believe immaterial can affect material, no? Simply tell one of these consciousness to prepare my lunch or switch on my tv, then you'll shut me up forever.

anony: If you cannot see how this obviously means that the software is distinct from your PC, I really can't help you.

If you cannot see that that is in no way the only logical conclusion, or that it is even the most unlikely one, and by orders of magnitude at that, then I really can't help you.

And the software must have a physical base somewhere, be it on an external server or locally installed, and interact using physical laws.. Just because you can't see some electomagnetic phenomena that does not make them spi.ritual... This is primary school stuff..

Random; Actually, I don't think I can help you, I obviously gave up on that a while ago. I do this simply to inform any readers intelligent but ignorant (and there are many valid reasons for one to be ignorant of various subtleties in these topics)


Edit: and wow, I didn't even realize you had linked the article

bbc: In order to drive a traditional black cab in London drivers have to gain "the knowledge" - an intimate acquaintance with the myriad of streets in a six-mile radius of Charing Cross. It can take around three years of hard training, and three-quarters of those who embark on the course drop out, according to Malcolm Linskey, manager of London taxi school Knowledge Point.

..........................................

The research confirms something which London's black-cab drivers have suspected for some time - learning their way around the capital is a brain-straining feat.

........................................................

The UCL researchers think evidence that the brain is able to change physically according to the way it is used could have important implications for people with brain damage or diseases such as Parkinson's.

Let me guess, the OBVIOUS fact that they strain various parts of the brain in order to produce these thoughts has nothing to do with this. Rather; spir.its were responsible. So those with parkinson's should try their luck at say praying?

How you came to that conclusion from reading that completely escapes me.

Mr anony: The fact that You can control your brain is evidence that there is a distinct you controlling a distinct brain.

This is no way, shape, or form, in any language, a fact. Exactly when did you prove your actions are not determined?

Hope you aren't going to tell me 'because I am capable of thinking', as you do know silly that sounds? If I programmed a machine to believe it had free will, exactly how do you expect it to figure out, using just its thoughts, that it doesn't possess free will? In fact, it would require a high degree of sophistication, as well as whatever tools are needed, to figure out that it is indeed deterministic. This is similar to one assuming the universe was created just for him simply because he happens to be conscious. He would need to do some hard thinking (among other things) to figure out evolution, BB (or something similar), etc etc.. That he was shaped by the universe, and not the other way round

Everything in this universe follows laws. There is cause and effect. Only quantum weirdness defeats this in certain scenarios apparently. And even if (and that's an if) so, it matters not. As you have no control over the cause, which is arbitrary, and the effect must still follow the laws. Actually, even the cause follows laws, just that they're flexible. And note, this is only at the quantum, most minute of levels. It is of virtually no practical relevance. In fact, despite its dependance on probabilities the SM is the most accurate physical theory there ever has been. It might trick one because of the unpredictability, just as chaotic systems do despite their being deterministic, but there are laws binding QM as well.

There is no where, anywhere, in this universe that we've seen (or even conceived of) logic (or just about anything else) manifesting without a physical base. Cause and effect starts with the physical causing an effect. So, until you can show consciousness without a physical base, stop spouting 'facts' such as these which violate known laws. Simply show us say a man without a brain being conscious, and we'll take you seriously. Else we'll assume it's a function of the obvious; the brain.

And btw, I have software that's capable of shutting down my PC after it completes a task, exactly how does that mean that the software must not be housed on my PC? Or that it is isn't part of the system?

ooman: she was never an atheist, she was and still is a xtian pornographer who experienced a deeper nosedive into the religious delusions.

Good riddance..... from the industry

What do I care about the rest??


But seriously. It's disturbing when they get into it so young... And that's like 90+% of them..

musKeeto: Lol, be lyk say u dey vex... Well the Lord's coming soon, he needs someone who can swallow

Poor guy was supposed to come like 2000 years ago...
That's a long time....

EDIT; she joined a movement it seems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XXXchurch

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e9/Jlps_pink.jpg/220px-Jlps_pink.jpg

This their logo leaves me conflicted

Well, she kind of sucked... (no pun intended)

Good riddance...

Kayi...

I've not laughed this hard in a while...

davidylan: Again more irrelevant hubris... Uyi Iredia stated that human skulls are reshapen at birth (a fact as i showed from the above links)... [size=16pt]you claimed this was false[/size] and more or less a form of abuse. What does the above prove? That neonatologists dont reshape baby heads?

The above is general knowledge for those who read wide and actually understand how the biology of the human body works. It is general knowledge for anyone who passed integrated science class in secondary school where we learnt that the bones of the skull are typically the last bones to fuse and do so AFTER the baby is born and not before.

It wasnt really rocket science... many of you are just illiterates who would not be able to contribute here if you did not have google to save face.

Please, david...

[size=16pt]WHERE THE Bleep DO I DO THAT?[/size]

davidylan: This is senseless and irrelevant. Your question above has zero to do with the statement Plaetton made and my response to it.
He states (again i repeat) that brain activity produces consciousness - well that is false because not every person with brain activity is capable of conscious rational thought.

If we were to even humor your obvious lack of comprehension... [size=16pt]are you claiming that SOME brain activity is related to consciousness and some are not?[/size] Why does that of consciousness switch off but not others in cases like coma?

Erm, yes...

And that is...well....common knowledge......

Different parts of the brain are responsible for different things...

Why I have to point this out to a trained biologist is frankly....bewildering....

For instance, here, memories implanted in rats....

Not to mention all the other activity the brain handles with no conscious input whatsoever...

Embarrassing..... Foolishness...... the works..

You genuinely are possibly the most foo.lish of all 'scientists' (ie, the quacks), around...

Please stay away from the labs...

davidylan: Daft really. Its ok to accept you just have no clue...

Shaping the heads of babies is a routine medical practice that i knew since i was 8 yrs old... struggling too hard to equate it with the mutilation of baby feet shows how little you really know about biology despite your noise making on a thread that has to do with evolutionary biology.

The skull bones do not fuse at birth... the bones of the feet are fixed at birth. Talk of apples and oranges. Shame.

https://i.livescience.com/images/i/000/034/760/i02/foto6.jpg?1356041213

Does the above look like a normal medical practice?

Did you even read the article?

And exactly how is the bolded supposed to be general knowledge??

davidylan: hmm doctors routinely reshapen skulls of babies when they are newly born. This is a fact that uneducated midwives know... Is there no end to your general lack of understanding of anything?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/healthy-baby/PR00043
http://www.dmc.org/video-infant-head-flattening-reshaping-the-skull-video.html

Those are two links from Mayo Clinic and the Detroit Medical Center. Read and educate yourself... reading from you folks is an exercise in trying to understand how some people are able to wallow in such vacuous arrogance.

Would you look here. Something, perhaps related to your field, I am unaware of. Clap for yourself, you're not totally useless apparently.

Then again, we also circumcize pipis and do a few other things as well, no? Difference here being me being aghast at what is [size=16pt]MUTILATION[/size], hence my mentioning the poor chinese ladies and their feet.

I was even going to mention female circumcision as another foo.lish practice, but it slipped my mind..

Kayi, david....

Foaming at the mouth, etc etc

plaetton: Brain activity produces consciousness. Simple undecided

davidylan: This is a thoughtless response. Coma patients possess brain activity... What conscious thought are they generating?

.........

davidylan: This is ignorant dribble. Did you even read the post i was responding to? Plaetton said brain activity produces consciousness and i responded by asking why people in a coma (who still have brain activity) are unable to generate conscious thought... your response was what? Merely to insult my person? Shame.

aaaaannnnddd, once again....

me: Thoughtless? More projection..

6000000000000000ft dwarf, [size=16pt]who says brain activity is responsible for (or even primarily designed to accommodate) only consciousness??[/size]

What exactly do you have a PHD in?? Kayi

[size=16pt]IS ALL BRAIN ACTIVITY RELATED TO CONSCIOUSNESS OH LEARNED ONE??!![/size]

Uyi Iredia: It is correct to say Neanderthals are apes. I surfed the web on Neanderthals and the thought occurred whether they are mishapen human skulls. The following links have some surprising skull features.

www.aquiziam.com/weird-skull.html

www.perceptions.couk.com/authority.html

Live Science too

In any case, I'll keep crossed fingers on this one. If I'm to pick a side I'll say misshapen human skulls. Human skulls are known to be reshapen at birth. The Huns and Spartans were known for this.

Gaddem.. Our folly knows no ends...

IIRC, chinese still mutilate the feet of females..

And virus DNA in...... humans

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/10/the-lurker-how-a-virus-hid-in-our-genome-for-six-million-years/

national geography: In the mid-2000s, David Markovitz, a scientist at the University of Michigan, and his colleagues took a look at the blood of people infected with HIV. Human immunodeficiency viruses kill their hosts by exhausting the immune system, allowing all sorts of pathogens to sweep into their host’s body. So it wasn’t a huge surprise for Markovitz and his colleagues to find other viruses in the blood of the HIV patients. What was surprising was where those other viruses had come from: from within the patients’ own DNA.

HIV belongs to a class of viruses called retroviruses. They all share three genes in common. One, called gag, gives rise to the inner shell where the virus’s genes are stored. Another, called env, makes knobs on the outer surface of the virus, that allow it to latch onto cells and invade them. And a third, called pol, makes an enzyme that inserts the virus’s genes into its host cell’s DNA.

It turns out that the human genome contains segments of DNA that match pol, env, and gag. Lots of them. Scientists have identified 100,000 pieces of retrovirus DNA in our genes, making up eight percent of the human genome. That’s a huge portion of our DNA when you consider that protein coding genes make up just over one percent of the genome.

Scientists have studied these so-called endogenous retroviruses both in humans and in other species, and the evidence all points to the same scenario for how they genetically merged with us. Our ancestors were infected with retroviruses on a regular basis. On rare occasion, a virus infected a sperm or egg and managed to end up in an embryo. Every new cell in the embryo inherited the retrovirus DNA implanted in its genome. And then the embryo grew up into an adult, which then had offspring of its own, and passed the virus DNA on as well.

At first, the virus still retained some of its old powers. Its DNA could sometimes still give rise to new viruses. Mutations arose in the viral genes, and they might prevent it from making shells. Yet the dying virus could still make a new copy of its genes and insert them back into its host genome. That would explain why it’s possible to classify our many endogenous retroviruses into different families. The families are made up of new copies of an ancestral virus.

Eventually, however, the endogenous retroviruses got so hobbled by mutations that they became nothing more than baggage. (In some cases, we’ve domesticated their genes, co-opting them for our own functions, such as building a placenta.) Given that many matching endogenous retroviruses can be found in other primates, this process has been going on for millions of years–even tens of millions.

The world of our inner viruses is still a murky, mysterious one that scientists are still surveying. And Markovitz’s discovery enabled him to add considerably to our understanding of these shadowy creatures. He discovered new members of a particularly interesting class of endogenous retroviruses–ones that, even today, can still have life breathed into them.

Markovitz and his colleagues analyzed the sequence of the virus genes they found in the patients with HIV. The genes belonged to a family of endogenous retroviruses called HERV-K, but they were not quite like any known HERV-K virus previously found.

The Michigan scientists wondered if this new HERV-K virus was hidden in the human genome. They checked the most complete draft of the human genome and couldn’t find a match. They knew that the human genome sequence was only about 95% finished, so they turned instead to the chimpanzee genome, on the off chance that the virus had infected the common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees over six million years ago. Bingo: a single copy of the virus turned up in the chimp genome. They dubbed it K111.

Having found this match, the scientists decided to return to the human genome and search for K111. They isolated DNA from their HIV patients, as well as from healthy people. They then split apart the two strands of the DNA and added a short piece of DNA that would bind to K111, should it be lurking there. In all 189 of their subjects, the scientists found the virus’s DNA.

Remarkably, though, the scientists didn’t find just one copy of K111 in each of their subject’s genomes, as is the case in chimps. The more the scientists looked, the more variants they found. Some K111 viruses were fairly intact, while others were vestiges. The scientists found over 100 copies of the virus in the human genome, scattered across fifteen chromosomes.

To figure out the origin of K111, the scientists looked back at other primates. They couldn’t find a version of K111 in any species other than chimpanzees. They concluded that the virus infected our ancestors not long before the split between humans and chimpanzees roughly six million years ago.

To find out what happened next, Markovitz and his colleagues turned to the genomes of extinct humans. Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute and his colleagues have sequenced the Neanderthal genome, as well as the genome of a lineage of mysterious cousins of Neanderthals, known as Denisovans. Our own ancestors diverged from those of Neanderthals and Denisovans about 800,000 years ago. Markovitz and his colleagues looked for K111 in their genomes, and there it was. The scientists found seven copies of K11 in Neanderthal DNA and four in the Denisovan genome.

This finding suggests that between 6 million and 800,000 years ago, K111 was duplicated a few times at a fairly slow pace. It’s possible that Markowitz and his colleagues missed some other copies because the reconstruction of those ancient genomes wasn’t quite accurate enough for their search. But even if we generously assumed that Neanderthals and Denisovans had twenty K111 viruses apiece, that’s still a small fraction of the 100 or more copies of K111 the scientists found in the human genome. It was only later, in the past 800,000 years, that K111 started proliferating at a faster pace.

One reason that K111 has gone overlooked till now is that it found a good place to hide–the center of chromosomes. This region, called the centromere, is a genomic Bermuda Triangle. It’s loaded with lots of short, repetitive stretches of DNA. When scientists reconstruct the sequence of a genome, they break DNA down into many overlapping segments, which they then try to rebuild based on overlapping similarities. Centromere DNA is so similar to itself that it’s easy to line up fragments in many different arrangements. As a result, centromeres make up much of the last 5% of the human genome that has yet to be mapped.

Another reason K111 has been able to hide for so long is that it’s fairly feeble. It lacks genes to make shells, so it can’t escape from its host cells any more. In fact, it was our own centromeres that appear to have made all the extra copies of K111. The repeating DNA in centromeres is not just tricky for human gene sequencers. It’s also tricky for the enzymes in a cell that make new copies of our DNA. They can slip up and accidentally swap segments from two chromosomes. K111 was thus able to spread from the centromere of one chromosome to another. Our cells also stutter sometimes when they try to copy centromere DNA, making extra copies of segments there. Markovitz and his colleagues argue that this is how new copies of K111 proliferated within each centromere.

Ironically, it was the HIV in the patients Markovitz and his colleagues studied which brought K111 back to light. When people get infected with HIV, the virus makes a protein called Tat which uncoils tightly wound stretches of human DNA, which allows its host cell to make more HIV at a faster rate.

Markovitz and his colleagues wondered if the Tat in their HIV-infected patients was spurring cells to also make copies of K111. To find out, they injected Tat proteins into human cells that were free of HIV. As they predicted, out came new genes for K111.

It’s conceivable that K111 interacts with HIV to contribute to AIDS, but Markovitz and his colleagues found no evidence of that. It’s certainly worth investigating further. But there’s another reason to keep learning about K111. Now that scientists have discovered K111, they can look for more copies of it in centromeres. Markovits suggests that their distinctive genes might serve as a kind of genetic barcode that could help genome mappers orient themselves in the hall of mirrors that is centromere DNA. Perhaps the human genome sequence will finally be completely mapped thanks to a virus that has been hiding in it for six million years.

The possibilities are endless.

The PHD should be educating us..

Edit; On another note, see the red? Find a gap? Draw up your hypothesis, make a prediction, test. That's how it works. When your hypothesis is proven right, over and over again, then you're probably on to something.

Among other things, not once has a single fossil been found in an area that contradicts evolution.

Question with this particular study (or the gap) now is why the proliferation ¬800000 years ago? This is far from complete, but you can see how they're working on it, yes?

Here another somewhat interesting nugget, a hypothesis about animals 'stealing' genes. I've seen other studies and will post them later

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16124-solarpowered-sea-slug-harnesses-stolen-plant-genes.html#.UfVDwY1wqPA

new scientist: It's the ultimate form of solar power: eat a plant, become photosynthetic. Now researchers have found how one animal does just that.

Elysia chlorotica is a lurid green sea slug, with a gelatinous leaf-shaped body, that lives along the Atlantic seaboard of the US. What sets it apart from most other sea slugs is its ability to run on solar power.

Mary Rumpho of the University of Maine, is an expert on E. chlorotica and has now discovered how the sea slug gets this ability: it photosynthesises with genes "stolen" from the algae it eats.

She has known for some time that E. chlorotica acquires chloroplasts - the green cellular objects that allow plant cells to convert sunlight into energy - from the algae it eats, and stores them in the cells that line its gut.

Young E. chlorotica fed with algae for two weeks, could survive for the rest of their year-long lives without eating, Rumpho found in earlier work.

But a mystery remained. Chloroplasts only contain enough DNA to encode about 10% of the proteins needed to keep themselves running. The other necessary genes are found in the algae's nuclear DNA. "So the question has always been, how do they continue to function in an animal cell missing all of these proteins," says Rumpho.
Gene 'theft'

In their latest experiments, Rumpho and colleagues sequenced the chloroplast genes of Vaucheria litorea, the alga that is the sea slug's favourite snack. They confirmed that if the sea slug used the algal chloroplasts alone, it would not have all the genes needed to photosynthesise.

They then turned their attention to the sea slug's own DNA and found one of the vital algal genes was present. Its sequence was identical to the algal version, indicating that the slug had probably stolen the gene from its food.

"We do not know how this is possible and can only postulate on it," says Rumpho, who says that the phenomenon of stealing is known as kleptoplasty.

One possibility is that, as the algae are processed in the sea slug's gut, the gene is taken into its cells as along with the chloroplasts. The genes are then incorporated into the sea slug's own DNA, allowing the animal to produce the necessary proteins for the stolen chloroplasts to continue working.

Another explanation is that a virus found in the sea slug carries the DNA from the algal cells to the sea slug's cells. However, Rumpho says her team does not have any evidence for this yet.

In another surprising development, the researchers found the algal gene in E. chlorotica's sex cells, meaning the ability to maintain functional chloroplasts could be passed to the next generation.

The researchers believe many more photosynthesis genes are acquired by E. chlorotica from their food, but still need to understand how the plant genes are activated inside sea-slug cells.
Human photosynthesis?

Greg Hurst of Liverpool University in the UK says that DNA jumping from one species to another is not unheard of but that normally the DNA does not appear to function in the new species.

"Here we have something going across and working in an entirely different context, which is altogether more interesting," he told New Scientist.

"There was an example recently of a whole bacterial genome that ended up in a fruit fly species, but no-one knows if it functions," he says. "What is really unique here is the fact that the gene is transferred and appears to function."

Other animals are able to harness sunlight after eating plants, says Rumpho, but this is only because they acquire entire plant cells, which is very different to transforming an animal cell into a solar-powered plant-animal hybrid.

It is unlikely humans could become photosynthetic in this way. "Our digestive tract just chews all that stuff up - the chloroplasts and the DNA," she adds.

Almost as awesome as telekinetic god..

I.Joan:
If this is your explanation...
I can equally say the brain just restricted consciousness(doesn't mean the brain created it) to deal with the physical trauma on the body.

Why? Have you seen a spirit anywhere beaming consciousness into the brain? When you can show that, trust me, the scientific community will take you very seriously.

They do however note though, that events like injury to the brain can completely change ones personality. They also know of no conscious entity without a brain. Due to these and many other factors, for now, I think they'll stick to simple common sense and/with results that can verified, observed, and indeed been shown to work (eg, they've implanted memories into rats). They all point towards the brain being responsible for consciousness.

Doesn't stop you from believing what you want to believe, but don't expect science to take you seriously.

Mr anony: When you are ready to answer and actually have a reasonable discourse, look me up.

This is a bit like a cripple asking me to call him up whenever I want to take a jog. What have I done to make you think I would want to do that?

As for the arguments you've been tossing about, other than what has already been pointed out, you've been presupposing the existence of free will. Exactly when was that proven to exist?

And that statement about empirical proof, suit yourself. But don't you dare bring that anywhere near a science class.

As thread seems to be generating interest, random nugget. Not particularly directed at the op

Neanderthals apparently had larger brains than modern day homo sapiens. Why? One hypothesis is that the extra mass was used to control other aspects of their physiology rather than the bits related to say our type of 'consciousness'

An article here

http://www.tested.com/science/life/454072-why-bigger-neanderthal-brains-didnt-make-them-smarter-humans/

davidylan: This is a thoughtless response. Coma patients possess brain activity... What conscious thought are they generating?

Thoughtless? More projection..

6000000000000000ft dwarf, who says brain activity is responsible for (or even primarily designed to accommodate) only consciousness??

What exactly do you have a PHD in?? Kayi

Mr anony: Yawn, I can see you really have no idea what you are talking about so you throw out an insult to help you save face. How pathetic.

If you really think I don't know what I'm talking about, this is good, friendly advice; get your head checked. Really..

And I did warn you, I won't waste time on your silly shenanigans. Asking a question as vacuous as that one. Even the genius above gets it. And if you did not get it

Despite my apparent joblessness, I actually do have a lot of things to do. So, kudos.

EDIT; Ah, I forgot to mention, if you could not decipher that, then how the hell did you decipher the 'insult'? More dishonest nonsense..

GeneralShepherd: The inherent problem with Atheism at least when I dabbled into (my personal view) is that it stemmed out a heart filled with rebellion, I believe there are people that are genuinely atheists and not just rebelling against religion.

On another note seeking the source of consciousness is awesome and should be encouraged,till then if you choose to be an atheist be the best atheist that ever lived,on the other hand if you are a theist keep being the best you can be.

Remember the golden rule..love you neigbour as yourself,hate will not move humanity forward.

Goot, goot