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Because science works even if you don't believe in it. Antibiotics, gravity and Hydrogen Peroxide all do their thing whether you pray for them or against them or don't pray at all. The universe does not care about your religion, it rolls on regardless. Vaccines protect babies in a way that God or prayer never could. You don't need to believe in a lightening conductor for it to protect your church from lightening strikes. Science is about understanding the universe to the best of our ability. It's not perfect and nowhere near complete, but it only ever improves, and so far we have not needed to invoke a higher power

The GOAT debate is officially between Pele and Messi. Maradona and Ronaldo are out of it for many reasons:

1. To be part of the GOAT debate, you need to have a significant mark in local league, Continental league and the world cup. Pele and Maradona, Messi all left a mark at these stages, Ronaldo is no where to be found on the biggest stage, which is the world cup.

2. On the basis of Goal contributions and individual awards and achievements, Messi and Pele and light years above Maradona.


Now who's your GOAT between Pele and Messi?

1. Pele boast of 3 world cup and 1 world cup golden ball while Messi has 1 world cup, copa america and 2 world cup golden balls. Pele never won copa america.

2. Messi has more world cup goals and assists then Pele. Both participated in 4 world cup.

3. Messi has more total assists and goals than Pele.

4. Messi has won more trophies than Pele in history.

5. Messi is the highest goal scoring south American in history, both in international tournaments and club tournaments.


Your guess is good as mine, aside for more world cup trophies, Pele is no match for Messi in other categories.
Their international career is very similar but I think Pele has an edge there, howner Pele does not have two world cup golden balls and Copa America.

Messi is the greatest of all time in football

Kingcalls:
Till Messi wins golden boot in 3 leagues , till Messi scores 118 International goals, till he breaks champions league goal scoring records....Ronaldo remains the greatest.... Mr pessi , the penalty merchant is a fraud , wc was gifted to him

who dey follow local champion drag Golden boats.

Loca European champion. We dey talk about world cup medal, this one dey call golden boot. Why you local like this?

Niklaus398:
ok ue choice and I respect it.

Not the choice of Renoun individuals or FIFA so we ok with that.

Even Ronaldo biggest sport critics like Rooney will easily put him in top5

you cannot say for sure.

The only thing helping Ronaldo is the PR and goals. Aside that, Gerd will top him based on records on global stage

Niklaus398:
oga Giroud was key in France winning it 4 years ago so simply using ur logic he was better than Messi and modric simple.

Since he has won it

how many Motm does Giroud have in world cup?

How many awards has he won?
How many Ballon dor does he have?

How many Ucls does he have?

How many league trophies?

How did Giroud even enter the debate when is not extraordinary both in Europe and world?

Ronaldo is extraordinary in Europe but not in world cup. Modric and Messi are extraordinary in both places

Niklaus398:
ok ur choice.

When the main list is brought.. I want to see if indeed your Gerd Muller will be ahead of Ronaldo lol.

No body or renoun someone that have listed the Goats have ever put your Gerd Muller ahead of Ronaldo.. not in this lifetime.

Na you where full with hate dey do m

I am giving you facts now.

Maradona got nothing on Gerd muller, and this same Maradona is whom you think should be ahead of Ronaldo. If you have any stat that Maradona surpasses Gerd aside from dribbles, bring it and let's see

The logic doesn't add up it Gerd is not ahead of Ronaldo

Niklaus398:
on thaf basis it means modric is there. Modric has enter FIFA Hall of Fame lol ... On that basis Giroud was better than Messi before Sunday simply because he has won the world cup. Agreed?

that's not the logic.

The logic is you have to get it done in Europe and the world. Modric and Messi did it in both places. Ronaldo only did it in Europe, Giroud is not even a key player anywhere.

If Ronaldo can get it done in both places, he will easily be 4th or even 1st, depending.

I hope you are reasoning

Niklaus398:
everything apart from the world cup.

It was Same example I gave above for delima and Ronaldo.

Remove world cup. Remove Champions league trophies of Ronaldo too.

Ronaldo beat Gerd in every indices.

More BD. More player of match. More assists. More freekivk goals. More and more everything u could think of.
More player of the season or player of the year. More and more of everything

Gerd mullee case is different because Gerd has champions league and world cup.

Gerd scored almost same goals as Ronaldo and assists almost same.

You cannot just remove world cup now like you did for Delima, because it's a big factor in this debate.

There's nothing basically that Ronaldo won that Gerd didn't win the same version in his time. But Ronaldo doesn't have world cup.

This world cup is why we are placing Maradona ahead of Ronaldo in the first place. Maradona doesn't even have a champions league trophy, Gerd has it.

Gerd scored more goals than Maradona and had more assists. How come Maradona is ahead of Ronaldo and Gerd is not ahead of Ronaldo?

Niklaus398:
Do you read at all? Who is comparing Messi and Ronaldo? We are talking if Ronaldo is top 5 in � debate and I said he will easily make 4th but can't make third cause maradona is there and got a world cup

Aside PR, I think Gerd Muller is even greater than Maradona.

We can put the statistic to test on this.

For me the top 3 are

Pele, Messi and Gerd muller. Maradona should be 4th.
MARADONA has got nothing on Gerd.

Maradona doesn't have a UCl title, he didn't score as. Uch goals or assists as much as Gerd. To cap it all, Maradona performed on drugs

Niklaus398:
Do you read at all? Who is comparing Messi and Ronaldo? We are talking if Ronaldo is top 5 in � debate and I said he will easily make 4th but can't make third cause maradona is there and got a world cup

I do not agree that Ronaldo should be 4th to be honest.

What does Ronaldo have on Gerd muller?
Tell me

Niklaus398:
hope you place Gerd Muller ahead of Messi before Messi won this world cup ?

If you didn't then look at the mirror and find out you are simply a hatefilled person

Even Before Messi won the world cup, he had entered the FIFA hall of fame by winning the golden ball. It's something Ronaldo doesn't.

You can only compare Ronaldo to Messi in Europe now and not on global stage. It's the bitter truth

On what basis should Messi and Ronaldo be compared on global stage if Ronaldo always disappears at the world cup

Ade1177:
You're being sentimental

Not possible

Ronaldo can't be rolled out

You cannot talk about Messi without CR7

Just not possible
I repeat not Possible

They are both engraved in each others story

Absolutely no way to talk about One without the other

Fine the ending of Cristiano didn't go down well
But cmon you were not born yesterday you can't deny what those two did over the years

Ronaldo doesn't have a world cup trophy, that's the biggest sporting tournament in the world. He doesn't have a mark there.

It is why he cannot be compared with Messi.

When it comes to Europe, you can compare him with Messi but not on a global stage because world cup trophy, golden balls, assists and goals will easily make Messi beat Ronaldo now.

It's the new reality you have to accept

Niklaus398:
now i know na hate dey do u lol.

Nigga won it once... Ronaldo won it 5 times.
Had the highest goals ever in history while playing majorly as a weekend for 2003-2014.. that's 10 years.

Ur Gerd Muller played as a striker yet Ronaldo tops him in goals

Ronaldo 5 CL. How many your Gerd Muller get?
Really hate is doing u. Lol

if Ronaldo manages to get just 1 world cup, you can even place him above Pele. It's when all these your UCl statistics can become relevant

Niklaus398:
ok. Have you finished? Even your Messi or Pele or even maradona won't make this useless statement. Lol.

FIFA thinks so.
I can't trust you and distrust Fifa

Niklaus398:
now i know na hate dey do u lol.

Nigga won it once... Ronaldo won it 5 times.
Had the highest goals ever in history while playing majorly as a weekend for 2003-2014.. that's 10 years.

Ur Gerd Muller played as a striker yet Ronaldo tops him in goals

Ronaldo 5 CL. How many your Gerd Muller get?
Really hate is doing u. Lol

one world cup encompasses whatever thing you had in Europe. Especially if that player also had many trophies in Europe.

A player with 2 Ucls and 1 world cup, 500 goals is greater than a player with 6UCLs and 600 goals. World cup is key.

It's like winning 10 EPL or LA ligas with many goals, you cannot compare such player with some with 2 EPls or LA Liga and 2 Ucls and he also has almost as many goals as you. Ronaldo can win 20 Ucls, Pele with 3 world cup and more world cup goals will still be ranked above him

That's the logic.

Ade1177:
Brother what will you call Cristiano Ronaldo then?

Because I think he has a larger fan base than Messi

And Only he and Messi dominated football for so long
15yrs

Agreed Messi won the world Cup, both of them can't win it

One has to win

But when people talk about Ronaldo like just anyone else is not cool,

Messi is great but without Messi Ronaldo would easily dominate the world

Without Ronaldo also
Those 5 ballon dors would go to Messi
Messi would have 12

Cristiano won 5 could have been 6 if he stayed in Madrid in 2018

So someone that beat Messi 5 times should be respected too

So Messi can be Goat to millions of people

But Ronaldo is Still Goat to other millions of people

Messi is obviously ahead of Ronaldo.
The fact that Ronaldo cannot break into world cup hall of fame makes him not in the same league as Pele, Messi and Maradona.

It doesn't matter if the whole world are his fans. Facts are facts.

I am being realistic with you. Football analysts in the future will definitely consider this and strike him out of the debate. In th future, no one will watch him, they will only look at the records and no world cup? He will be regarded as Cryuff or platini

Jokerman:
Of cos.

Varane is bigger than Maldini

yes, Varane is a more accomplished defender than Maldini.

The trophies are there to justify that

Niklaus398:
yes u re right no doubt he won't come on top those two.

So now is now

Pele
Messi
Maradona
C.Ronaldo
Ronaldo Brazil
Etc


But knowthis.. if Ronaldo should be a virtue of Grace go with Portugal to the world cup in 2026 and win that world cup. He will climb up to that third or even second position .

By the way, Pele is above Messi and maradona because he won 3 world cups for me.

Gerd Muller is a greater player than Ronaldo by a. Lot. See why : Müller became the first German to win the Ballon d'Or back in 1970, when it was still known as the European Footballer of the Year. He remains the top scorer in Bayern's history with 566 goals in 607 games, won three consecutive European Cups, the Intercontinental Cup (world cup)), the Cup Winners' Cup and four Bundesliga titles.

Ronaldo needs the world cup to be at that level

Niklaus398:
lol hate has blinded you.

Apart from that world cup that has eluded Ronaldo and kept him away of the top 3..he easily enter top 4.

Ronaldo Brazil could have come before him but he has only 3 BD and not CL.
Ronaldo has 5 and 5 Cl. Just being brought down by World cup..

So he easily comes 4th for anyone without biases.
You might say he is not as talented as Ronaldo delima but nevertheless he has achieved much more than Ronaldo delima.

Remove Ronaldo CL and Delima World cup.

Ronaldo dump delima in every statiscal data.. weather on goals or on assists. Weather on freekicks or anything at all.

You might say he had the longer career..but how is that Ronaldo fault? Cristiano in 2014 had a near career ending injury and had to adapt and change his game to continue football, to me that's a brilliant footballer.
But delima failed too. it simple...

Cristiano easily comes third after Pele, Messi, maradona. If he wins the world cup in 2026 he will go third ahead of maradona.
Messi will still maintain 2nd simply because of the number of his ballon dor

see, whatever you do in Europe, if you don't make FIFA hall of fame, na local continental champ you be.

The world cup is the biggest footballing tournament in the world, not just in football but the biggest sport event. If Ronaldo doesn't make an impact there, he remains a local continent champ. No GOAT debate for him

Jokerman:
No court case bro. He has already been acquitted of all wrongdoing. Make God keep us alive.

Pessi don free now... choi

Even Modric can be regarded as c greater than Ronaldo atm.
Modric has a world cup golden ball, bronze medla and silver medal.

Ronaldo is not part of the best 10 players in history atm

Kingcalls:
But there was goat debate when Ronaldo first won a cup with his national team.... Argument then was first to win national Cup...una still no gree..... Ronaldo remaind the greatest of all time...his over a billion fans still believe that he is the greatest, ur fake world cup can't change that

levels Don change. Make Ronaldo level up.

Him with Messi no be mates again

ItsTutsi:
Tinubu will get a very good outing in the north.. nothing less than 5p% overall votes

Why do you think Tinubu can beat a formidable Atiku and kwankwaso on the turf?

On what logics basis did you reach that conclusion.
What makes you think that Northerners will leave kwankwaso and Atiku to give Tinubu the lead

Mitsurugi:
So why do you watch the other competitions? You wey follow curse Nigeria too for not winning AFCON. Anyway I'm glad this tiring Messi/CR7 nonsense is over for una mind, make we finally hear word.

What kinda of childish logic is this?

It's like asking why I watch carling up and Copa dey rel if UCl is bigger.

No world cup, no GOAT debate. Simple

Kingcalls:
Nonsense.... winning WC don't make u the greatest.... Ronaldo will forever be the true king... we don't support fake goats that fifa helped

No world cup, no GOAT debate. Even FIFA knows this

Mitsurugi:
Your opinion. But you shaa mentioned Cryuff. Why?

it's not an opinion, it's fact.

No world cup, no GOAT debate

Mitsurugi:
I understand your argument as levels go, but its like saying the Ballon D'Or winning George Weah was no great simply because he never won the World Cup. He never even went. Some players will never have the honour not because they are not good but because of their country's pedigree in football. Just look at Belgium. So De Bryune falls short of greatness because of his country's poor pedigree, abi?

On a team note, Messi always had more chances of winning the WC than Portugal. They are a WC traditional team. And I believe that is why CR7 just concentrated on individual honours till he won the 2 international trophies. Still una no let am drink water.

Even if this world cup is Messi's only international trophy, it automatically cancles out whatever Ronaldo won in Europe for his country.


World cup is ultimate

Nawttiboi007:
Ronaldo is a living legend like it or love it

no doubt he's a legend but he's not in the category of Messi, Pele and Maradona.
World cup is very key, very important.

People will always place him bow these 3. Just wait a while when experts start analyzing this issues

Nawttiboi007:
Not be the World Cup wey the whole world watch if no be penalty luck chances?... who shine pass for that match?.. all hail young Mbappé the beginning of a new era

all these ones na story.

Nobody go reason all these jargons 20 years from now.

Who got the world cup, final Answer.

Story Don end, Messi was better for that reason

Mitsurugi:
Oga I am not pained. I am being objective and I expect you to do the same. If you won't, no wahala. I won't reply you again. Quit the shithousery man.

Objectivity is knowing that Ronaldo needs a world cup trophy to be in the level of Pele, Messi and Maradona.

It's not very hard to rationalize

Mitsurugi:
Why? Have you heard of Eusebio, the Black Panther. I swear una no dey follow sports. You even called Cryuff but didn't mention Eusebio of Portugal.

CR7 is not the league of greats. How can you say this with a straight face in the face of his footballing achievements which drowns those you mentioned. Cryuff never even won an international trophy for crying out loud

you cannot be in Pele, Maradona and Messi's level without a world cup.

It's as simple as that, you will be forced to accept reality or you will keep burning in pain

Nawttiboi007:
Messi no rule all through him active years of not dem for no frustrate am be4 him commot go PSG

But world cup and 8 Ballon dor in ronaldo's Era?

Future footballer lovers will look at the records and never doubt that Mess was better. The records will speak