Lol @ the proverb. I'm pretty sure it would sound better in your language but I think I understand what you mean. I'm beginning to find that clients' psychologies do vary based on their geographical location i.e. UK clients vs those in Nigeria. To borrow a phrase from Orwell, 'all clients are created equal but some are more equal than others'

I guess it all boils down to whether you're willing to lower your standards to land the client. I don't think it's worth it in the long run however. One of the fastest ways of growing your business is through word of mouth - once people know you as the person who does mediocre work for rock-bottom prices, it would be extremely difficult to break away from that reputation.

Thank you both for your contributions. So in addition to poor communication, there's also the issue of inadequate technical skill. Where I was trying to go with this was: a good way of marketing yourself in a rapidly growing industry would be to find out every negative opinion about the industry, do the opposite, and use that as a unique selling point. Yawa, you seem to have given some more insight about that notion by showing that this approach doesn't always work with prospective clients. I find it interesting that some clients are still willing to settle for 'sub-standard' designers/developers, even with a superior alternative clearly in view.

I recall a few conversations I've had with friends, clients, etc about web designers/developers and noticed a common thread regarding their reservations about working with such people - unreliability. They all mentioned that either themselves, or someone they knew hired a designer/developer only to have them disappear and never again heard from them. It seems as though this is a popular complaint about designers/developers. I would believe that this is due to the nature of the people who decide to take on the job rather than the industry itself - but it seems that many are associating this vice with the the industry as a whole. Now for my questions:

1. Do you find unreliability a common complaint about web designers/developers?
2. Is there anything else that annoys you about, or makes you reluctant to work with web designers and/or developers?

The second question is directed more towards consumers rather than the professionals but please feel free to share what others have told you. Knowing in advance the concerns of potential clients regarding your line of work would go a long way towards preparing you for a successful pitch.

Hey Smartsoft 

Although it is possible to be both - being one doesn't automatically make you the other. However, to be a web designer I would think that you'd require some graphic design skills. Uspry1 summed up the difference between the two pretty well. Another thing to note is that being a web designer does not necessarily mean you're also a developer.
Web designer: you make it pretty.
Web developer: you make it work.
However, the line between all three is often blurry and many individuals do have skills that cover all these areas.

Another thing is desperation. Clients can smell desperation a mile away and that will cause the balance of power to shift more in their favour. Don't appear desperate (even if you are). Believe in what you do and the benefits you can offer your clients - carry yourself with confidence. That way there's less pressure to try to please the cient.

Someone made a good point about being an entity versus an individual. Even if you're an individual that should not stop you from presenting yourself professionally. Do you have a business card? Have you branded all the stationery that a client sees? Do you have an email address that uses your domain name not someone@yahoo.com? If yes, then clients would be more likely to take you seriously as an entity (regardless of how many people work for or with you) and therefore more likely to go with your terms. If not, then they can walk.

Once again, do not give them reason to think that you're desperate for the work!

The 'demos' are also known as spec work. There's an association that deals with the issue: http://www.no-spec.com/

As a rule I don't do spec work - that's what I have a portfolio for. If they're not convinced that I'm the person for the job from the previous work I've done then I don't see how spec work would change their minds. I've seen too many people burned on this issue in the past to compromise on this - it's just not worth it. Something you could do in the future would be to show them only screenshots of the site (with watermarks if you like) and not the actual link to the web page.

I don't use DW anymore but I think it's an excellent tool. It's a monster to master but once you do - it's great. I does generate some convoluted nonsense sometimes but if you know your code you could always trim it down.

At the risk of playing devil's advocate, I must say that although industry standards are a very important issue and should serve as a guideline for every developer, if you're happy with your work and the customer is happy then I don't really see much of a problem. Just make sure that you can defend your work. If down the line your cutting corners caused problems and cost you your client then you only have yourself to blame. If on the other hand you pride yourself on being standards-compliant and using clean code then that can be used as a unique selling point. Developers can find themselves jobs in which they have to clean up the mess their predecessors left behind. And those clients are usually willing to pay more for the service. Unfortunately, the sad fact is a vast majority of potential clients couldn't care less about the code as long as the site does what it's supposed to do. 

*Disclaimer: I hate table-based layouts with a passion. They are an abomination and should be eliminated at all costs

Crew.cee, there are quite a few places to study graphics design in the UK so there's a whole range of choice. It depends on whether you think it's worth it - both financially and career-wise. If you think it will give you an edge in the current market and you can afford it then by all means go for it. Aren't there any places where you could take a graphics design course in Nigeria?

HC, great job - I like the silhouettes in the background.

Ok, here's my two cents (pence? kobo?): There's nothing wrong with being honest about one's opinion of other people's work. I'm of the opinion that if you don't want people to criticise your work then don't put it up in the public domain. However, there's a difference between tearing down someone's efforts and giving constructive criticism.

Tearing down: OMG your work sux!!!!111oneone
Constructive criticism: Your work is ok but it looks like there's too much,  or I would've done it like this,  or you could do this,

I've been in and out of a few forums in my day (oh to have that kind of time again!) and the common reasons for the early demise of graphics showcase threads is due to non-constructive criticism. In addition, I don't think there's anything particularly Nigerian about encouraging anyone who contributes their work on the forum - I would have thought it was just common courtesy. I believe firmly in the saying, "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." Besides, as others have mentioned, Nairaland isn't our main gig - I myself I'm in the middle of a PhD and run a Graphic/Web design business so time is a precious commodity. In any case, I would think many of those who showcase their work would reserve their best for paying clients

Thank you to those who commented (positively or otherwise) on my submission. I really hope this thread sees more contributions. Keep up the good work Soji

This isn't all that great but here's my attempt:

That's a very good manipulation Alexxie! I would use a brush to soften the edges of the sneaker so that it blends better with the background but otherwise a great job

Crew.cee, yes unfortunately I don't reside in Nigeria but I'm more than willing to give you some tips. I learned graphics design through self-study and tutorials. I could point you in the right direction if you'd like

Thank you both

Ok, there are 3 basic 'ingredients' for pimping a Windows XP desktop - 2 of which are easy. The last one requires a little bit more effort.

1. A dock for launching your programs

This program is called Rocketdock and can be downloaded at www.rocketdock.com
Direct download link: http://files.punklabs.com/RocketDock/RocketDock-v1.3.5.exe

2. Widgets for your desktop (these are the circled items in the image below)

This program is known as Yahoo Widgets and can be downloaded at http://widgets.yahoo.com/download (click the 'Get Started Now' button and follow the instructions)

3. A Program to change the theme of your operating system (see orignal poster's picture)
He mentioned stylexp which is a good program that can be downloaded at http://download.tgtsoft.com/StyleXPInstallMale.zip
First of all you have to unzip the file (using winzip, winrar, etc) and launch the .exe installer file inside but before you do:
Leave your email address in this thread and await further instructions to help with installing the program

That mos def one is solid! Great job. Here are a few of mine from 'back in the day' when I was a uni student and doing signatures for friends.

Smashing Magazine is a great resource. It's also a repository for a wealth of graphic design and web resources. Here are a couple more tutorial sites:

Illustrator tuts: www.vectortuts.com
Photoshop: www.psdtuts.com
Web development: www.nettuts.com

Those three sites are by the same group and the tutorials are in-depth, step-by-step and easy to follow.

Which do we choose? I happen to prefer joomla but you say it may have a huge learning curve.  I think drupal has a higher learning curve.  If we go with expression, how many know that?  Are we going to devote time to learning something or have people drop off simply because they don't want to spend the time to learn something new?  Remember, this is volunteer work.  In the event that the FG says, "hey we like what you are doing, come and do it for u", then we can worry about moving the stuff into a CMS because at that time, we would be paid to do it.

You make very good points here. It would probably be best to start off with a static site and move on from there if required. If it is done right (and I have no doubt about this since you're on board ) then migrating to a CMS shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Some very good ideas have been expressed in this thread - Olushola's idea of donating it to the Government is a great one. A CMS would be a good route to take - especially if the work is going to be collaborative. The great thing about CMS is that updating or maintaining the site doesn't have to be dependent on just one person. If the original developer is unable to continue, someone else can step in with minimal fuss. Joomla is a good open source solution although it's got a bit of a learning curve (not as bad as Drupal though!). ExpressionEngine is an extremely elegant alternative but is a commercial product. Dreamhost would be a great host to use - I use them and they are fantastic.

With regards to members' contributions to this project - I don't think it's so much cold feet as having the time to dedicate to it. It is a fairly large undertaking and people may not have enough time to devote to the project further down the line. One could say yes now and then if business suddenly picks up, it would be difficult to continue.

Both Yawa and Omnipotens are right. On one hand charging peanuts for our work is undervaluing our industry - but the key issue here is that of value. If your standard of work is not up to scratch then it's difficult to charge higher prices. That's why it's good to always seek out knowledge and ways of improving one's skill set so that one can charge higher prices that reflect the value of the work on offer.

@OmniPotens, that is a truly unfortunate tale indeed. I as a customer would be wary of paying the full amount for a service like web design/development before seeing what I'm paying for. That's why I charge a 50% deposit before work commences with balance payable on completion - and with full client consultation at various stages of the project. In fact, they have to sign off at each stage that they are happy with what's been done so far before the next stage can commence. This makes both the client and I happy and a happy client should be the number one aim of any designer/developer.

Efeboy do you know how to take screenshots? If so please take a screenshot of your site in Dreamweaver (highlight the button you pressed to make the 'cell') and also a screenshot of how the site looks in Internet Explorer. In case you don't know, you can take a screenshot using the Prnt Scrn key on your keyboard and pasting it in a new document in an image editor (e.g. Photoshop).

Funny thing is though that many of the most commercially successful bloggers I've read about did not start out with any intention of making money. Just wanted a means of self-expression or to fill a niche in their industry. The money came afterwards. I've found that in many cases, money has an interesting tendency of evading those who chase after it 

@OminiPotens - that sounds like an interesting idea - I would like to pay a visit once you're done.

@yawa there seems to be some sort of miscommunication here lol! By box model problem I was referring to the bug in IE5.5 and below that caused it to treat the model differently from other browsers i.e. subtracting margins/padding (can't remember which of them) and border widths from the content width instead of adding. If the box model itself was a bug we'd all be in trouble 

This bug was fixed in IE6 but another bug was discovered with the floats as I mentioned above (apparently some people have also noticed it in IE5). A second float dropping down in Firefox for example is not a big deal - just a simple math issue as you pointed out. But if you fix the 'issue' in Firefox and still have it in IE6 chances are the IE bug has doubled the margin and/or padding of the float(s). So in your example that 60px width will actually be 70px in IE6. So even if you reduce the width of A or B by 10px, the problem may be fixed in Firefox but not in IE6 because it'll be 60px and that's where the inline fix becomes useful. Thank you for the quick lesson though - interesting use of the br tag for clearing.

With regards to a 99% css site (this site also happened to have tabular data) - I guess I'm behind you there - did my first one in 2006

@yawa Looks like I got my browsers mixed up  The box model problem is only found in IE5.5 and below and yeah a div within a div to fix it is a well-known hack and like all hacks should be avoided as much as possible or used only in extreme cases. The problem in IE 6 is when you have a couple of floats. IE6 has an annoying habit of doubling the margin of the starting float - often causing the adjacent float to be pushed down below it. Using {display: inline;} is a common fix for this. Apologies for the confusion .

Does your layout cell have both margin and padding values attributed to it? If so this could be the cause of the problem in IE6 (I'm assuming you mean IE6). There is a problem with the way IE6 calculates widths and heights of divs with both margin and padding applied. By the way, when you say cell do you mean a table cell? Or are you referring to a div?

I also test in Safari ---  sometimes ----  when I can be bothered and only since I started using a mac 

I couldn't agree more about the css style reset. That should always be the first line of code in your stylesheet - it's like wiping the slate clean. Apart from heights and floats and such, another huge problem with IE6 is the way it treats margins and padding. If left unchecked it can seriously mess with your layout. The trick with is to either use margin OR padding attributes and not both at the same time. Alternatively you could use a div within a div - one could be allocated padding and the other the margin. There are a host of other little work-arounds out there to deal with IE6 quirks that are also standards-compliant.


@yawa - it's good of you to have written on the subject. However, I've observed (from here and elsewhere) that not many people like to read 

IMHO, I think all should go for that web is a total redesign. Better layout, ideology of what be on the web (the webmaster should lookout for other country's website to learn if he/she doesn't know what should) and a host of other things.

What is the need of a forum?
I wonder how many people ask themselves this question. If actually you don't want to learn anything new and want to remain just with what you know, I don't see the need why you should register at all, not to talk about reading posts. The forum is there for exchange of ideas, knowledge et al. WHOEVER DOESN'T WANT TO LEARN SHOULD STAY OUT OF POSTS AND JUST KEEP READING WITHOUT ASKING ANY QUESTIONS  Lips sealed

NO HARD FEELINGS ANYWAY! 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I don't have a cyber café but in my experience Eset Antvirus / Smart Security (http://www.eset.co.uk/index.php) is the best I've used. It is small, light-weight, uses minimal system resources, and catches more viruses than threats that most. The main reason I use it is because it really does not interfere with your system the way Norton does. It just quietly does the job in the background.

With regards to a cyber café - you're probably going to need a business license and the price will depend on how many computers you have.

I usually test on 3 browsers: Firefox, IE 7 and IE 6. I always have the biggest headache in IE 6 as it is not standards compliant which means I often have to add conditionally formatting or link to a different css stylesheet completely. It almost always messes up my layout unless I do some major alterations. Unfortunately IE6 is still the most widely used browser internationally although it is being phased out by IE7. I don't know how widely used it is in Africa - probably more than the West. I can't wait until they phase out that browser completely.

Anyways, here is a useful program for testing your sites on IE if you don't have all the versions: http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/HomePage

Well seeing as there are some people that are willing to pay for lessons,  it may be slightly more than just a hobby to them But I see your point.

I've noticed a number of threads where people are asking for help in learning Photoshop. I have a piece of advice for you: take charge of your own learning. You'll never learn if wait for people to teach you. Besides, why should your self-improvement be dependent on some else's convenience? There are a whole host of resources on the web if you would just take the time to search - however, to make it easier for some, I've found a very useful site that teaches the basics of Photoshop right up to an intermediate level. I hope those of you who wish to learn will find this useful.

http://www.tutorial9.net/school-of-photoshop/

Good luck!

Get her perfume - any time she wears it she'll think of you - consciously or unconsciously

Just make sure it's something that's of a high enough calibre and not some diluted air-freshener nonsense.