rokiatu:
Correct. In that case. You stand to lose nothing.

That is assuming, of course, that your god is the right god. There are millions of them.

All these points have been debunked at one time or the other here.

Every so often when I am discussing or debating religion
with someone, he or she will tell me that at one time they
were once an atheist just like I am now. I even had one
person call himself an “ex-atheist.” I always found this kind
of odd considering that all Christians (and even all theists
for that matter) are by definition “ex-atheists.”
What most Christians don’t realize is that we are born
without belief in a deity... any deity. Babies don’t believe in
deities and religions because they are babies. Their minds
have not yet developed and they can’t even recognize
themselves in a mirror. They don’t believe in ghosts or
tarot, nor do they believe in the boogieman, Santa Claus, or
Gods. They are a blank slate as far as complex beliefs go.
All babies have are instincts and the nurture of the womb.
In other words, people are born without the belief in deities.
We are all born atheists.
However, religious indoctrination starts very early on in most
families and so by the time a baby can express any kind
of thoughts at all, they have probably already been
brainwashed to believe in a deity and/or in some sort of
religion. This is a sad fact about religious institutions that
they can’t even wait until someone has reached the age of
reason to start warping young and fragile minds with
indoctrination.
So why do some Christians pull out the “ex-atheist” card?
Well, one technique in the art of persuasion is to identify
with your subject. In this case, a Christian claims to identify
with his or her mark by claiming that they once didn’t
believe in God and the Bible. The problem with this is that
a simple lack of belief is all that qualifies one as an atheist.
In other words, a person who has never thought about
religion is just as much of an atheist as someone who has
studied the claims of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and
has researched the Torah, Bible, and Koran and found that
those belief systems are ridiculous.
Kirk Cameron of Growing Pains fame is one such person
who frequently uses the “ex-atheist” card. But I doubt very
much that Kirk Cameron cared about religion at all before
becoming religious. He almost certainly didn’t study the
claims of religion with any seriousness or rigor nor did he
look at the history of Christianity and the Bible before
becoming a fundamentalist Christian. He probably never
argued with religious believers and probably never thought
about any of the philosophical arguments. Yet he still can
claim honestly that he was once an atheist.
On the other hand, many atheist activists (i.e. atheists who
have actually studied religion and still don’t believe) were
once religious. Many were even very religious and some
were even fundamentalists. These particular atheists are
often very knowledgeable about their particular religious sect
and so when they de-convert it really means something. In
other words, the claim of ex-Christian may actually carries
philosophical weight while the claim of ex-atheist is usually
pretty much just meaningless. I know many Christians will
claim this is a double standard. But the reason for this
double standard is a valid one and so the ex-atheist
Christians really have no persuasive ground to stand one.
So when discussing religion with someone who throws out
the “ex-atheist” card, it is important to ask them about their
former atheism. How knowledgeable of an atheist were
they? Did they read and understand the counter-arguments
to religious belief? Did they debate or discuss religion with
believers when they were a non-believer? What’s their
“street cred" so to speak?

An2elect2:


You are in a morass where there is no standing.

If you make a claim, you prove it. So, stake your claim and prove it.
You talk very flippantly. Eternity is not a plaything. Our universe has existed for billions of years and that is even not up to a very small fraction of infinity. If my conscious fate in such depended on choosing between the hundreds of thousands of belief systems on earth, don't you think its quite a bloody, callous gamble.
If I decide to be a Christian, and that happens to be the right choice, 1 billion+ Muslims are sure to be subjected to such mind boggling cruelty. If I'm a Muslim, and I'm so lucky as to be correct, 2 billion+ Christians are..doomed. That is not something to talk so delightfully bitter about.
Convince me, bearing in mind how high the stakes are.
Everyone, pay attention.

An2elect2:



You are so ignorant that am not surprised at your rage. Now, prove me wrong by telling everyone here how Christ replied the pharisees. What bible you reading?

Look, and pay attention i am not here to prove the existence of God to nobody. They have eyes to see the wonders of creation and conscience too! so back off my way "self appointed teacher" you have contributed nothing here only to come at me like a stubborn bull dog.

If the truth i speak is what you call "stupid statement" then hold your tongue so you don't bring wrath upon yourself.

When you foolishly threaten people like the heathens and swear on top of it, you are nothing but a hypocrite who does not practice what he believes!

There's something humorously true about this lady. When you see a Christian so aggressively passionate and so full of eternal threats when they speak, it is because they have doubts in their head about what claim to profess. The cocksure ones are usually better composed about their crap. Listen to those doubts, dear. Examine Christianity as critically as you would Islam and other belief systems. You would definitely make some interesting discoveries.

.

Queendo:
These are d kinds of men we are talking abt! Frm ur statement u're a wife beater. Shame on u!!!!!!!! No matter d exesses of a woman what it takes to be a man is to bear and at worst is ignore d woman not to turn her to ur punching bag. Remember if u don't hav a sister u wil one day hav a daughter.

I'm definitely not in support of such a crude display of animalistic tendencies, but, I'd tend not to agree with you.
No "matter" the excesses of a woman? I think you over did it there. There really is a limit to tolerance and not everyone can bear to treat a women as they should be "no matter their excesses". Some men might decide to display some of their own "excesses" too. Both parties should not exhibit anomalous behaviours to avoid irrational responses.

An2elect2:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Woe unto him that strives with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioned it, What make thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Woe unto him that says to his father. What did you beget? or to the woman, What have you brought forth?

Isaiah 45:7,9 $ 10.

Am sorry very sorry....for you if you do not know God.

You keep arguing against his existence and sovereignty, proud fools! yes i said fools. That's the common name for those who say everything came to be without anything causing them to be.

The reason you keep debating over "common sense" issues is because that's the only way you are kept bound from truth.

I hate the bandwagon of fools#

1) You cannot prove the existence of the bible god with the bible.

2) I am not arguing with anyone. I used to do that in my earlier atheistic days..I'm above that now, except when unavoidably necessary. I was just replying some of the assertions made in cococandy's thread about being angry at god.

3) You don't have the right to call anyone a fool. Rule 2. Cease and desist.

When discussing religion, I find it interesting how even the
most thoughtful and carefully-argued apologetic eventually
comes down to simple, blind faith. However many clever
arguments and justifications the believer puts forward,
sooner or later there comes a point where those
arguments have to be reasoned from first principles, and
the first step, the basis of all subsequent beliefs, is reached
from reasoning which more or less amounts to “just
because”.
There’s not necessarily anything wrong with that –
ultimately, we all have to begin with unprovable axioms, even
if they’re almost universally agreed, or appear self-evident.
For example, I believe that the laws of physics are
consistent throughout space and time, that other people
really exist and aren’t figments of my imagination, and that
the universe didn’t spring into existence last night, with the
whole of history and everyone’s memories created at the
same time. They all seem like pretty reasonable conclusions
to me, but even so, there’s no way of proving them.
So I don’t have any problem with unprovable axioms
(except that they’re a frustrating roadblock if you’re
interested in watertight logic), but I think – even though I
can’t prove it – that they make more sense in some
situations than others.
What prompted me to write this post is a discussion about
the problem of suffering. It all followed the usual pattern,
with back and forth between some people pointing to
examples of suffering and other people trying to find
reasons why an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent
deity might allow them to happen, and lots of debate about
the logical consistency of the various arguments. Eventually,
the apologetic argument generally came down to a belief
that there must be a reason, even if it wasn’t obvious what
that was, because God wouldn’t allow it otherwise.
It struck me that this is very similar to when Christians try
to justify genocide in the Bible. Most people, if faced with
evidence that God allowed or – worse – ordered vile acts
like this, would conclude that either the evidence was wrong
or God is a monster. But there are some who attempt to
redefine their terms – if God does it, it’s clearly not so bad,
or it is bad if we do it but the rules don’t apply to Him, or
even that His victims were asking for it – not an argument
with a particularly distinguished history, regardless of its
merits in this case.
Similarly, Christians generally end up acknowledging that
there is suffering, but rather than amending their
speculative, unprovable view of God (i.e. that He’s
omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent) they suggest
that He must have a reason for allowing suffering, even if
we can’t know it. To me, this looks uncannily like Stockholm
Syndrome. However unpleasant or abusive God must be if
their beliefs are correct, and however responsible He is for
their current suffering, they still want to justify His actions
and excuse His crimes. They believe He could stop all their
suffering, they know He doesn’t, but nevertheless, He must
be a nice guy and have His reasons.
Alternatively, why not try Battered person syndrome on for
size, to explain why Christians continue to worship a God
who, if He exists and has anything like the power they
believe, looks very much like a serial abuser. Have a look at
these common beliefs and attitudes:
Additionally, repeated cycles of violence and
reconciliation can result in the following
beliefs and attitudes:
The abused believes that the violence
was his or her fault.
The abused has an inability to place the
responsibility for the violence elsewhere.
The abused fears for his/her life and/or
the lives of his/her children (if present).
The abused has an irrational belief that
the abuser is omnipresent and
omniscient.
With very minor changes, that looks to me like a perfect
description of Christian belief: We’re all sinners, which is
why there’s suffering in the world. God can’t force
unregenerate sinners to change, or to love Him. If we don’t
do the right things and plead with the abuser, He’ll condemn
us to hell not just in this life, but for all eternity. And point 4
speaks for itself.
Maybe atheists should be setting up shelters for battered
believers.

plaetton:


I agree with you that for most people, there lives would make no sense if they didn't believe in supernatural causation.
But that itself is an existential problem, not an answer.
Think about this critically.
The reason that the west are far more advanced than us in Africa is due to the way they seek answers to existential questions.
In Nigeria /Africa, we are not encouraged to ask and seek, but to ignore the questions by lazily invoking supernatural causation.
By so doing, we are yoked to being mere passive observers, rather than being active agents in the unfolding realities.

Give a typical Nigerian a deadly critical problem to solve, and watch him/her go down on their knees for spiritual /supernatural intervention.

When we construct our reality with morally and philosophically ambiguous imported myths that we hardly understand, then we inevitably build a wishy washy reality that seem to confuse us the more.

The European and much of the rest of the world have had thousands of years to evolve and transcend magical thinking. We should learn from them without having to reinvent the wheel.

The sad irony is that I can say (as an Igbo with village experience ) that traditional African societies have solid moral and philosophical frameworks upon which to blend with modern realities to build a solid and easily graspable reality.

Well, that's another way to look at it. Religion has greatly hindered the psychological, technological and moral, yes, moral advancement of most under-developed and developing countries. Faith usually requires blind acceptance without critical consideration and often poses ridiculous answers and asks that they be not questioned. That is very dangerous indeed. He who does not know and does not wish to know is an epitome of folly.
Always a pleasure to have you around. Platteon.

davien:
Speak for yourself, we've all seen what history taught us about religious dogma.....
Nobody goes about saying why people need to believe in unicorns...so what is the drive to push your own mythology over others.

I'm known to be one of the most raw and outspoken atheists around here and that is still my stand- no to religious indoctrination. However, I'm just looking at things from the other side of the divide. Face it Davien, some people's lives would make absolutely no sense to themselves without the ''god'' factor. Let's be a bit more compassionate, don't you think?

Someone I know said "We need to believe we have
superpowers." Whether it's astrology, or the belief in
psychics, or ghosts, because we are a conscious species,
we understand that death is the ultimate unknown, and we
learn early that death awaits us all. Our conscious nature
and our culture came together such that they tried to
explain death as having a purpose, and that the ultimate
purpose of it is greater than the purpose of our lives. That
mysticism led to religion which codified beliefs about death
and created a hierarchy of political power that in turn tries
to control the way people think and live and how they
allocate their resources (back to the religious beuraucracy).
It all stems from the need to believe that death is not the
end, despite all evidence that it is the end of everything we
can define and quantify in life.
Human beings are not rational. We are emotional first, and
death is scary. Without imagining any kind of hell, imagine
simply non-existence. What does it say about the
unknown (but short) number of years you will live? If it is
the end, what imperatives must you try to accomplish,
whether for yourself or altruistically for the universe around
you (people, the planet, friends, causes you believe in)? It
makes it so much more urgent to do things NOW that will
make your life have value to you. The idea of a god and
an afterlife makes it easier to allow yourself to be flawed, to
believe that injustice 'gets taken care of' in an afterlife, that
people get what they deserve at some point off in the
future.
It also explains away why people die of cancer at the age
of 12, or why your marriage fails: it's some other entity's
will (that you can't understand and can't resist).
To some extent, the codifying of religion produces its share
of good. The "golden rule" is a great way to live, and
religions try to teach it, which is praiseworthy.
But there's no reason to believe that death is bad. Non-
existence will not be painful (where were we before we
were born? I associate no sadness or pain with not being
alive, and I have no memory or sensation from it either!).
Maybe there's something beyond death, but no one can tell
us, so there's no reason to follow someone else's ideas
about it. Follow your own, but be not afraid.
Be good to one another in this life, because human
compassion is real, and is the only transcendental good we
know of in the universe. Leaving a beneficial mark in THIS
life should be our goal, and not the avoidance of some
mythical punishment in the next life.

I know Mr Adebayo (Mathematics) and I won't put such past him.

ProphetUdeme:
i'm around though my life is hidden with Christ in God.... Were have u been?

Medical school. I've missed the topics and all. I'd be back for a while.

ProphetUdeme:
i'm the servant of the One that formed and made u in ur mother's womb. And am being sent forth by Him to come an declare the message that He loves u and has good thoughts towards u an to give u peace. even though u dont know Him.

Prophet the Prophet...it's been a while.

Seun:
I really hate these paid comments. This is spamming, though it is different from the type of spamming our system is built to counter.

Seun! Get a grip!

MrRhymes101:
ys boss. Rainbow FM 94.1. I go on air with him some times....D Don na my oga o

Alright..I'm telling you, amazing talent you've got. It'd be nice if you release your funny rhymes in mp3 format available for download on online platforms. Amazing stuff, brother.

MrRhymes101:
I featured in a program at Rhema Chapel International (not my church though) last night.....watch n criticize ooo!! let me know if I have to change my style or make necessary adjustments before I BLOW (omo see faith). Don't bother to advice me to quit comedy, ur advice go waste lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehTQVOoZhTU

Mr. Rhymes, have you ever been on comedy happy hour with tha don?

profjossy2:
Bros, abeg dat one na lie..i be EKSU student...i neva see that kind building before...

Stop trolling.

That's all I was able to find. Feel free to add more if you manage to find any on the internet or live pictures, perhaps.

A bit more..

More

Redoil:
Who are we to trust with all these lies been peddled by our brothers from the south

Oh please!

.

We're not the best thing since sliced bread but we're certainly in a better position than what the previous OP suggested... Kudos to him by the way.

My 2cents..repping EKSUCOM.

anthoniosp:
ah ah na who come b dis 1 again??...you say energy exist although it has no creation nor destruction...nd I say God exist although He has no creation nor destruction..so what is this case all about?? Infact this debate has long before now closed..this is the footnote ....

question: " does God exist?"........

We said energy exists and God exists..so who won??...of course me!!!

OK.

anthoniosp:
ooooooooh!!! Before we get 2 dat point in this debate....we must whole heartedly agreed that God exist but the question is who created God...what u are saying is that since no one created God..God does not exist and if so, I can say if no one created energy then energy does not exist.....bt I have agreed to ur theory that energy exist and so therefore God exist..kpam...biro closed #genious

"God of the Gaps" is an argumentative fallacy that tends to fill gaps in scientific theory with God. Very laughable.
Let me make it clear. I am, I repeat, I am 100% sure that God (Yahweh in your case) does not exist. That said, meseems you do not grasp my point. If a creation must always have a creator, then the universe has a beginning and that beginning has another. Infinite regress sets in and the mind becomes uncomfortable with that. But that doesn't rule out infinite regression. Reality has no moral duty to make us comfortable.

anthoniosp:

Oga..the person am debating with believes that he is a creation of nature..of which he asks me..if I say God created the universe then who created God and I answer him "if you say nature created you, then who created the universe"......he said "biology and some things about energy and electrons and some other long long scientific stuff"...so I ask him "what created the so-called "energy"...

Again, you err.
You are assuming a creation must have a creator. If so, God must have been created by something and that thing by another, leading to an infinite regression. It is more logical at this point to assume that some form of energy is the uncaused cause behind the series of events leading to the big bang. However, we can only guess at this point. Science is still young and things that were unknown years ago are very much known now. So, we cannot fill a gap in scientific theory based on the tales of nomadic cavemen. Unless of course, you have reasonable answers as to why we should, "God did it" is an incredulously lame explanation.

1) O.P cannot differentiate betwixt Atheists and Scientologists..fatal flaw.
2) With the way your discuss is set up, I don't think any atheist would bother engaging you.
3) Atheists do not have anything to prove to you. They are people who do not believe in the existence of a god, gods and spiritual phenomena. You do, however. You are making a claim, hence, the onus of proof lies on you.
Logically, prove the existence of your god (there are hundreds of thousands of them, and don't get me started on the capital "G").
I'd be waiting.

DancingSkeleton:
shame

no wonder Satan RULES



the house of God has be turned upside down

quote me and d!e before FEBRUARY 1st

FTC tho

I'm quoting you and I'd remind you again on Feb 1st.

WhiteTechnology:



Thank God for showing your true colour

2015

We will exchange the oil for weapons and get ready for you guys when your protest spiral towards our region.

The way we await BH Southward march so we await you guys Eastward hunger march

Animal! Human life means so little to you. You're talking about weapons when you've never experienced war. Mark my words, your hatred will eat you up from inside. Your ethno-chauvinism will consume you. When it is all said and done, you'd forever wish you never came into the world. You'd think of the genocide your careless and thoughtless actions and utterances have caused and you'd commit suicide.
Carnivorous Beast!