34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! - Religion (10) - Nairaland
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| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 11:08am On Sep 25, 2012 |
frosbel: Guys can you help me here. You cant be so sure which person of the trinity speaks there and revealed himself, if moses have seen the glory of one, he has seen the rest, 3 persons dint need to come down just as the father dint need to come with jesus. No big deal in the "i will", each persons in the trinity have a will. It could be the father, son or spirit that revealed himself in that passage. But i think its christ(divine nature) cos "No one has seen the father at any time" Probably he dint want moses to see his face because he might fall down as dead like john in revelation, remember john saw a vision, not real life and he still fell down as dead. I dont see what u are trying to prove here oo |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 11:09am On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: @ijawkid leave nebucadnezzer out of this, was he also called lord of lords, first and last, mighty God, I AM...? I should leave nebuchadnezzar out of this?? Your really funny..... Remember we are dealing with titles....... Remember?? Jesus was called Lord of lords because as far as lordship with the exception of Yahweh is concerned Jesus is Lord over all..... Jesus is Lord over man , governments,rulers,and even the angels... But Jesus's Lordship has a limit.... Why?? Because Jesus himself has a Lord..... Please explain psalms 110:1 to me..... ---New International Version (©1984) Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." ...... ++New Living Translation (©2007) A psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit in the place of honor at my right hand until I humble your enemies, making them a footstool under your feet." There are 2 lords mentioned there and I know u can spot the difference... But I want u to tell me who is the 1st LORD(written with capital letters) and who is the 2nd Lord(written with small letters) ..... Oya start........ Why is one Lord written with all capital letters and the other with small letters?? And kindly tell me if those 2 lords mentioned there are one and the same person.... And also don't forget that for d fact that d reason nebuchadnezzar was called king of kings was simply because Yahweh gave him rulership over all the earth...... Satan too is king of kings...why??he is the ruler of the world....the GOD of this world(satan too is GOD)..... But soon Jesus will be given authority,rulership and will rule over all the earth....and so Jesus is also given the title king of kings..... But soon the whole world will know Yahweh is the over all king of kings when Jesus hands over that kingdom he was given and then Yahweh becoming all and all.....1 corinthians 15:24-28.... 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” [ c ] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subjectto him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all ....... Crystal clear who wiLl @ the end of the day be King over all Kings and Lord over all Lords..... Yahweh is supreme over all including Jesus.... Please read 1 corinthians with an open eye... That scripture is so clear that even a witch doctor who doesn't have an iota of the holy spirit can understand it..... Jesus has a God,King and Lord over Him.... |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 11:53am On Sep 25, 2012 |
@ijawkid i tôt u once claimed the hebrew manuscipts had upper case letters only, now to suit urself, u mention a lesser lord and a LORD.. Funny you. Ijawkid dont be ignorant, if christ submitted to the father doesnt mean he is a lesser god. If ur mum submit to ur fathers authority, does that make her less human?? |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 11:54am On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: @ijawkid i tôt u once claimed the hebrew manuscipts had upper case letters only, now to suit urself, u mention a lesser lord and a LORD.. Funny you.  Typical Trinitarian upside down logic. |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 11:55am On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Stop playing games. God HIMSELF came down, HIM , just HIM , no one else. Let me wait for your wannabe theologians to come and help you with this one . |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:03pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god. Is jesus a true God or a false God? |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:04pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god. Is jesus a true God or a false God?[color=]Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god. Is jesus a true God or a false God?[/color]Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god. Is jesus a true God or a false God ? |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:08pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
frosbel: Even the Son(Jesus) came alone to earth, HIM. Just HIM. No one else. You are not bringing any proof out of this. Jesus has always existed(not with the name though), and God has manifested himself to pple in the OT(theophanies), now tell me, dint Jesus say no one has seen the father, so who manisfested himself as God in the O.T? |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 12:09pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: You make me laugh , honestly ! |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:12pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
frosbel: Whatever, just dont try to cover truths up |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:17pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
John 6:46 King James Version (KJV) 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Frosbel who then revealed himself as God in the OT? |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:26pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." Would this be contradiction frosbel? No, but lets see Exo. 6:2-3, "And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." Num. 12:6-8, "And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. 7My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. 8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?" Frosbel check also, Exo. 24:9-11; Gen. 17:1; 18:1; 19:24 with Amos 4:10-11; Acts 7:2. As you can see from the above scriptures, God Almighty was seen, but it was not God the Father. But the Son and thats why i said to ijawkid that you cant conclude that Yahweh is a name exclusive to the Father only but the Godhead in general. Well thats me and ijawkids discussion, so i will leave that. So did the bible contradict itself frosbel? |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 12:30pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: @ijawkid i tôt u once claimed the hebrew manuscipts had upper case letters only, now to suit urself, u mention a lesser lord and a LORD.. Funny you. U asked me how submission affects nature right?? When I once said all heavenly creatures are Gods u failed to pay attention... The bane of this whole dicussion is if Yahweh and his son Jesus are equal..... Now psalms talks about 2 seperate Lords.... Distinguishing them with capital and small letters respectively...... Even when we know that the hebrew texts were written with all capital letters,bible translators chose to differentiate the lords mentioned in that verse..... Because the Lord that was told to sit down @ the right hand of the other LORD is lesser....... Back to d question:::::: Clearly tell me why translators had to differentiate the lords mentioned in that verse?? And also tell me if the 2 lords mentioned there are one and the same person... Are they equal?? You read 1 corinthians 15:24_28 and you still don't get the point?? All I did was tell u Jesus has a king,Lord and God over Him........ Remember we are still on titles.... Who is the LORD?? And who is the 2nd Lord?? |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:43pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
@ijawkid i never mentioned that christ and the father are the same person (dont quote me wrong) You cant use the argument of LORD and lord against me because you claimed they are all written in upper case in the manuscripts when i wanted to use them against you. Does ur mum submission to ur fada make her less human? "All things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made"(John 1:3) Now ijawkid lets draw a chart, lets name everything that was created by Jesus on the left and all thing not created by Jesus on the right because they already existed! Now would angels fit to the left of the chart consisting of those things created by Jesus or not? |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 12:47pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god. Good!!!!!! U've started learning....@ least u know Jesus has a God over Him..... Now as regards ur question::is Jesus a false God?? You can answer the question by also asking yourself Are the angels false Gods?? When the bible calls both Yahweh,Jesus,man,rulers of isreal Lord.... Ask yourself if David and all the kings of isreal who were called Lords,abraham(who sarah called Lord), are false Lords......?? 1 corinthians 8:5 $ 6..... New International Version (NIV) 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed thereare many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for usthere is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and thereis but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live ..... Those 2 verses explicitly tells us that there are GODs in heaven and also Lords.... But again Yahweh is made distinct as the only 1 true God.......why?? Meaning::::::Yahweh is the only person who dserves our exclusive devotion..... Jesus worships Yahweh and so do all of us...... This is exactly what Jesus told satan...@ matthew 4:10 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ .......... U get the point?? JÉsus straigth away told satan(who himself was a God) who alone deserves exclusive devotion...... Make no mistake about the use of titles..... Scriptures so many times have made it clear who the supreme being is.......... |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 12:48pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Anyway i get ur point ijawkid, Jesus is a lesser god. Good!!!!!! U've started learning....@ least u know Jesus has a God over Him..... Now as regards ur question::is Jesus a false God?? You can answer the question by also asking yourself Are the angels false Gods?? When the bible calls both Yahweh,Jesus,man,rulers of isreal Lord.... Ask yourself if David and all the kings of isreal who were called Lords,abraham(who sarah called Lord), are false Lords......?? 1 corinthians 8:5 $ 6..... New International Version (NIV) 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed thereare many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for usthere is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and thereis but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live ..... Those 2 verses explicitly tells us that there are GODs in heaven and also Lords.... But again Yahweh is made distinct as the only 1 true God.......why?? Meaning::::::Yahweh is the only person who dserves our exclusive devotion..... Jesus worships Yahweh and so do all of us...... This is exactly what Jesus told satan...@ matthew 4:10 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ .......... U get the point?? JÉsus straigth away told satan(who himself was a God) who alone deserves exclusive devotion...... Make no mistake about the use of titles..... Scriptures so many times have made it clear who the supreme being is.......... |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:51pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
Beating around the farm.lol Ijawkid is jesus a true God or a false God? Ansa, dont send back questions to me |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 12:53pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: @ijawkid i never mentioned that christ and the father are the same person (dont quote me wrong) |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 12:59pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: @ijawkid i never mentioned that christ and the father are the same person (dont quote me wrong) My mum and dad are both humans... But the bible has made man Lord over the woman..... Apostle paul said man was created 1st.... Didn't u read that @ 1 timothy 2:12-13 "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet, 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve." ( 1 Tim. 2:12-13 ) That Is why man is head over woman,and not the other way round..... The same applies to Yahweh and christ.... Yahweh is head of Christ,just as Christ is head of man and man is head of woman....1 corinthians 11:3 explicitly states that... This is the reason why I said all heavenly creatures are termed as ""Elohim"" That's there nature.....they are all divine,supernatural,powerfull...they are spirits....both Yahweh and Jesus and all the angels are spirit beings..(Divine)....that's there common nature... But ,then differentiation starts coming in..... Why?? Because some1 is supreme above them all..... One is powerful than the other...... And please b4 we start drawing bar and pie charts can u tell me if u agree that Yahweh is greater than Jesus?? Although Jesus said it with his own mouth,but I'll like to hear u re-sound it......... |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 1:04pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Beating around the farm.lol Jesus himself answered that question @ john 17:3........... New International Version (©1984) Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. ...... New Living Translation (©2007) And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth. ..... English Standard Version (©2001) And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. Haven't u read that verse?? Your the one bothering yourself if Jesus is a false God or true one.... That's why I asked if the angels are false Gods?? Are they?? And I throw your question back to you.... Is Jesus Christ the only true God?? Please read john 17:3 and answer that question...... |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 1:06pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
Nature of man is always going to be lesser than nature of God. The bible made this clear that he being in the Form of God brought himself so low and also he was made a little lower than angels. If he was made a little lower than angels, then angels and the father are greater than him. But in his divine nature, he isnt lesser bro. Jesus is an angel according to jehovah witnesses ryt? So how come the bible says he was lower than angels? If u can answer that, you will be able to answer why jesus said the father was greater than him. So you were saying ur mum is less human becos her husband is her head ryt? Thats cool. Dont lets drift away 4rm our topic sha. |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 1:09pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
ijawkid: Ok i dont know if Jesus or angels are false Gods, so please tell me, are they? Yes or no |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 1:11pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Nature of man is always going to be lesser than nature of God. The bible made this clear that he being in the Form of God brought himself so low and also he was made a little lower than angels. But my mum is a human,,,.... But my dad is head over her..... Adam was b4 eve.... Na bible dey talk all these things o...... Jesus is called a morning star.... Remember?? Who is or who are morning stars... I want to us to go deep into titles now... Now let's confine our discussion to the heavens..... Jesus,satan,all angels are called mornign stars... But how do u differentiate Jesus from all of them?? Mind you:::::: Yahweh can never and is never a MORNING star..... That title doesn't apply to Yahweh.... Let's go on a ride... Oya haibe ....start |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 1:16pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Nature of man is always going to be lesser than nature of God. The bible made this clear that he being in the Form of God brought himself so low and also he was made a little lower than angels. |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 1:17pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
I will appreciate if u answer my questions first, we will come back to the issue of titles. Will be back, wanna do something |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 1:26pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Lol.... U want me to answer that?? Common my dear bro haibe...... You should figure that out... My Job is to tell persons on this forum that Yahweh is greater than Jesus for all eternity.... And that I have proved with scriptures... Let me tell you one thing..... You might think I don't see Jesus as my Lord or as some1 important in my life...... Infact if not for Jesus we wouldn't really know the person Yahweh is and what he really wants from us...... But I can't blind fold my eyes and say Jesus is equal to the person who sent Him....that's not possible.... And that's what this whole discussion is all about....... My Job is to tell people that Jesus has a Father and God....and that we all both share the same Father and God with Jesus... That's why Jesus aint ashamed to call us ""brothers""... Let me read hebrews 2:10-12 from the Goodnews bible... 10.It was only right that GOD.who creates and preserves all things,should make Jesus perfect through sufferings,in order to bring many sons to share his glory.For Jesus is the one who leads them to salvation. 11. He purifies people from their sins ,and both he and those who are made pure all have the same Father.That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call us brothers.12 .He(Jesus) says to GOD(Yahweh) ""I will tell my brothers what you have done; I will praise you in their meeting""...... Don't u see it?? Its clear bro..... |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by ijawkid(m): 1:32pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: Nature of man is always going to be lesser than nature of God. The bible made this clear that he being in the Form of God brought himself so low and also he was made a little lower than angels. Oh so Jesus was made lower than angels but @ d same time according to u guys he was God incarnate....... U guys have got to choose bro......if Jesus was made lower than angels then he was 100percent human and not God....but a perfect man @ that ..... But if Jesus was fully God on earth then he has to explain why he didn't know when the end will come but only Yahweh did.... Let's come back to the main point.... as regards Jesus's words::The Father is greater than I am"" Jesus meant every bit of those words....... The Father has always being greater than Jesus....... B4 his descending to the earth and even after his ascension..... I quoted scriptures alone from 1 corinthians to prove that...I don't know if u've decided to throw them into the dust bin..... Those verses say Jesus will be made subject to his Father and God after handing over the kingdom the Father(Yahweh) gave him to cater for.... Jesus will be subservient to Yahweh for all eternity... Didn't u read it from 1 corinthians?? Abi u want make I formulate scriptures come show u?? 1 Like |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by truthislight: 3:00pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: @ijawkid i tôt u once claimed the hebrew manuscipts had upper case letters only, now to suit urself, u mention a lesser lord and a LORD.. Funny you. dont let this cause you your short at everlasting life. Leave the trinity and it will leave you. You are defending the undefendable. Just imagine the question you ask on this context? Turning the whole scriptures upside down. |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:03pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
frosbel: lol...... Dude, don't be jealous that I have smart brothers. That's what happens when you belong in God's Family. Besides, why beat up on you? If I were to add my typing to theirs, something that's already totally one-sided will become a massacre. We don't want that, do we? It's Life we're calling you to, Frosbel, not Death. |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:08pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
removed. Bless Jesus as always. |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by haibe(m): 3:10pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
truthislight: Nope u are actually the one defending the undefendable, the trinity is clear in the scriptures, u guys just wont accept. |
| Re: 34 Reasons Why The “holy Spirit” Is Not A “person” - Bible Scholars attention ! by Nobody: 3:15pm On Sep 25, 2012 |
haibe: The Trinity , a word coined by Pagans as is clearly reflected in many idol-worshipping cultures , is not and I repeat , is not in any form or shape represented, intended, implied, reflected or affirmed in Holy Scripture. It is not only illogical but confusing, misleading, direct from the father of lies and a great danger to the ignorant. |
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