frosbel:

My goodness, why are you so concerned about pain , torment , torture etc.

Is the lake of fire not enough for you people

Even after God says he will destroy sinners, you are still telling him it is not enough , they need to burn forever.

Are you serving God out or fear of LOVE.

And who told you we have our own spirits, do you know that spirit in the original language simply means breath or wind, in this case the breath of God.

It is this breath that makes us a living soul.

so spirit + body = living soul.

This nonsense about soul , spirit and the immortal connotations are straight out of Greek pagan mythology.

You will have to expunge these verses from the Bible if you are to relax under your false sense of security:

"Shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2)

"Everlasting punishment" (Mathew 25:46)

"Weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:51)

"Fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17)

"Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish" (Romans 2:8,9)

"Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

"Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 7,13)

OLAADEGBU:

You will have to expunge these verses from the Bible if you are to relax under your false sense of security:

"Shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2)

"Everlasting punishment" (Mathew 25:46)

"Weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:51)

"Fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17)

"Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish" (Romans 2:8,9)

"Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

"Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 7,13)

My goodness, no wonder some churches have their people looking miserable.

What does blackness of darkness for ever mean, that they will be floating around in darkness forever , or does it not mean that they will never see light ever again because they are dead.

and what does destruction mean , in your dictionary it means live forever , right ?

What about gnashing of teeth, do you expect people who are being destroyed in the lake of fire to laugh

everlasting punishment means irreversible death , no existence ever again, or is this punishment too light for you ?

The Muslims and Catholics will be proud of you.

I leave you with you ubbliblical doctrines, enjoy !!

frosbel:

My goodness, no wonder some churches have their people looking miserable.

What does blackness of darkness for ever mean, that they will be floating around in darkness forever , or does it not mean that they will never see light ever again because they are dead.

and what does destruction mean , in your dictionary it means live forever , right ?

What about gnashing of teeth, do you expect people who are being destroyed in the lake of fire to laugh

everlasting punishment means irreversible death , no existence ever again, or is this punishment too light for you ?

The Muslims and Catholics will be proud of you.

I leave you with you ubbliblical doctrines, enjoy !!

You will still have to deal with the words of Jesus Christ who said:

"I am He that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" (Rev. 1:18) The Evidence Bible.

There are three words translated "hell" in Scripture:

Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22,29; 10:28; and James 3:6)

Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)

Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)

There are those who accept that hell is a place of punishment, but believe that the punishment is to be annihilated—to cease conscious existence. They can’t conceive that the punishment of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who was responsible for the deaths of millions, is being "punished" merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn’t even know that he is being punished.

However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in hell (Luke 16:19–31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn’t asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." If hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus' statements about hell make no sense. He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43–48 ).

The book of Revelation tells us of the final, eternal destiny of the sinner:

"He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone . . . the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night" (Rev 14:10,11).

[quote author=OLAADEGBU]

You will still have to deal with the words of Jesus Christ who said:

"I am He that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" (Rev. 1:18) The Evidence Bible.

Jesus Christ has the keys of Hades and Death.

The correct translation in this context is Hades.

86. haides hah'-dace from 1 (as negative particle) and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:

The KJV catholic bible seems to translate everything to HELL.

This simply means that only JESUS has the power to resurrect the dead to life, simples.


"I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." - Revelation 1:18

There are three words translated "hell" in Scripture:

Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22,29; 10:28; and James 3:6)

Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)

Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)

Sheol is the grave in Hebrew while Hades is the equivalent in Greek.

Gehenna is the lake of fire and not an existing Hell.

There are those who accept that hell is a place of punishment, but believe that the punishment is to be annihilated—to cease conscious existence. They can’t conceive that the punishment of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who was responsible for the deaths of millions, is being "punished" merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn’t even know that he is being punished.

Human reasoning interjected into the words of scripture does not make a good arguement.

It is clearly stated that people will be punished for the deeds committed in their body , this does not in anyway support the fallacy of eternal torment.

However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in hell (Luke 16:19–31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn’t asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." If hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus' statements about hell make no sense.

First of all you will have to discard the parables told in the same chapter to the rich man and lazarus , otherwise it is strange that you will take one story to be true and the rest as parables.

Besides if this was true then we should at least expect the rich man to have a name.

I also was not aware that souls have hands and tongues to taste.

Jesus's constant warning of hell was in direct reference to the lake of fire.

These is only one punishment for the wicked and that happens after and not before judgement.

Please stop adding to the words of God.

He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43–48 ).

Let us compare this one to another scripture in Isaiah, which also refers to the worms that will not die and the fire will not be quenched.

One thing you have to understand is that Jesus read scripture just like you and I , and made numerous references to the old testament, an example was the temptation in the wilderness.

Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

Here , it is easy to grasp that the fire will not be quenched till they are destroyed, not forever. This clearly refers to dead bodies and not conscious souls in an eternal hell.

The book of Revelation tells us of the final, eternal destiny of the sinner:

"He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone . . . the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night" (Rev 14:10,11).

Then we should also take the following scripture literally.

For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
A year of recompense for the [i]cause of Zion.
9 [j]Its streams will be turned into pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke will go up forever.
From generation to generation it will be desolate;
None will pass through it forever and ever.
11 But [k]pelican and hedgehog will possess it,
And [l]owl and raven will dwell in it;
And He will stretch over it the line of [m]desolation
And the [n]plumb line of emptiness.
12 Its nobles—there is no one there
Whom they may proclaim king—
And all its princes will be nothing.


Here again, we see that this simply means that the smoke of their torment is not forever but for a fixed period, this is normal language used in many parts of scripture where fires burnt forever but are today not burning.

Also I am bit confused, the bible says there will be no more night in the new world, so where is this place where day and night will still exist ?

"There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever." - Revelation 22:5

frosbel:

Jesus Christ has the keys of Hades and Death.

The correct translation in this context is Hades.

86. haides hah'-dace from 1 (as negative particle) and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:

The KJV catholic bible seems to translate everything to HELL.

This simply means that only JESUS has the power to resurrect the dead to life, simples.


"I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." - Revelation 1:18

Look at the the person condemning others for using bible helps and other articles to buttress their points. I thought all your thoughts were original and now you are quoting bible dictionaries written by men. Let's back up to Revelation 1:17 which is just before what you quoted up there and see where you have been shooting yourself in the foot.

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying to me, Fear not; I am the first and the last"

I know you evaded responding to this verse in the other thread now it has caught up with you here. Do you now admit that Jesus is the One speaking here? If so, do you agree that He is the first and the last?

frosbel:

Sheol is the grave in Hebrew while Hades is the equivalent in Greek.

Gehenna is the lake of fire and not an existing Hell.

I gave you Scriptural references to back up my assertion why don't you give yours?

frosbel

First of all you will have to discard the parables told in the same chapter to the rich man and lazarus , otherwise it is strange that you will take one story to be true and the rest as parables.

Besides if this was true then we should at least expect the rich man to have a name.

I also was not aware that souls have hands and tongues to taste.

Jesus's constant warning of hell was in direct reference to the lake of fire.

These is only one punishment for the wicked and that happens after and not before judgement.

Please stop adding to the words of God.

Jesus gave an actual event that happened in the place of torment and you are now twisting His witness saying that is a parable, tell me parables that Jesus spoke about where He mentioned names of the characters involved? When the Scripture doesn't mention names that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a parable but here Jesus mentioned names of real people such as Moses, Abraham and Lazarus which is to tell you that God is not the God of the dead but the living.

OLAADEGBU:

Look at the the person condemning others for using bible helps and other articles to buttress their points. I thought all your thoughts were original and now you are quoting bible dictionaries written by men. Let's back up to Revelation 1:17 which is just before what you quoted up there and see where you have been shooting yourself in the foot.

Oh sorry, I did not know that quoting from a strongs dictionary is now quoting men's interpretations , lol.

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying to me, Fear not; I am the first and the last"

I know you evaded responding to this verse in the other thread now it has caught up with you here. Do you now admit that Jesus is the One speaking here? If so, do you agree that He is the first and the last?

evaded

what makes you think so, strange times indeed.

So what about it, tell me in this statement , where he said I am Yahweh.

People also fell at the feet of angels because of the power and authority given them by Yahweh.

OLAADEGBU:

Look at the the person condemning others for using bible helps and other articles to buttress their points. I thought all your thoughts were original and now you are quoting bible dictionaries written by men. Let's back up to Revelation 1:17 which is just before what you quoted up there and see where you have been shooting yourself in the foot.

Strongs is simply a translation from classical Greek or Hebrew into English

Just like translating Igbo into English, that easy.

Jesus gave an actual event that happened in the place of torment and you are now twisting His witness saying that is a parable, tell me parables that Jesus spoke about where He mentioned names of the characters involved? When the Scripture doesn't mention names that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a parable but here Jesus mentioned names of real people such as Moses, Abraham and Lazarus which is to tell you that God is not the God of the dead but the living

So this is the only part of the bible you can use to justify your doctrine of hell, just one bible passage , that's all .

And if this is a real story, tell me Sir, what is the name of the rich man, surely he must have a name , right ?

And how come he had a body in Hell when his body was in the grave.

And why do you call this one a parable because it suits your twisted doctrine that you use to hold men in bondage, and discard the rest as parables.

talk about cherry picking , you seem to have perfected this art.

frosbel:

Strongs is simply a translation from classical Greek or Hebrew into English

Just like translating Igbo into English, that easy.

So this is the only part of the bible you can use to justify your doctrine of hell, just one bible passage , that's all .

And if this is a real story, tell me Sir, what is the name of the rich man, surely he must have a name , right ?

And how come he had a body in Hell when his body was in the grave.

And why do you call this one a parable because it suits your twisted doctrine that you use to hold men in bondage, and discard the rest as parables.

talk about cherry picking , you seem to have perfected this art.

Name one parable that Jesus gave that He mentioned the names of the characters?

OLAADEGBU:

Name one parable that Jesus gave that He mentioned the names of the characters?

aha , so you agree it was a parable, lol.

You have used one bible verse to build an entire theology of the false doctrine of hell after death and eternal torment.