the thread, like the op, has lost its bearing.

The Trinity, which denies Jesus Christ came in the flesh, is not a Biblical teaching. It is a manufactured imagination and is the basis of THE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST.

Because the Trinity teaching is not in the Bible, it is not a "DOCTRINE NECESSARY FOR SALVATION", as some Churches claim when they make it compulsory for their flocks to accept it as 'truth'.

In confirmation of this blatant deceit taught to millions, the ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA once commented.. "The propositions constituent of the dogma of the trinity were not drawn directly from the New Testament and could not be expressed in New Testament terms...they were products of REASON, SPECULATING on a revelation to faith...they were only formed through centuries of effort, only elaborated by the aid of conceptions formulated in the terms of Greek and Roman metaphysics.."

On the back of this nonsense we have other false doctrines such as immortal soul, eternal torment , tithing ( those charlatans ) and a host of others.

Allow me post the testimony of an anti-trinitarian who was killed in the most horrendous manner by a trinitarian called Calvin.

Read, digest and be warned of what spirit is behind this doctrine.

Michael Servetus

During the Reformation, Michael Servetus taught a theology of the Incarnation that denied trinitarianism, insisting that classical trinitarians were essentially tritheists who had rejected Biblical monotheism in favor of Greek philosophy. The Son of God, Servetus asserted, is not an eternally existing being, but rather the more abstract Logos (a manifestation of the One True God, not a separate person) incarnate. For this reason, Servetus refused to call Christ the "eternal Son of God" preferring "the Son of the eternal God" instead.[8]

In describing Servetus' theology of the Logos, Andrew Dibb (2005) comments: "In Genesis God reveals himself as the creator. In John he reveals that he created by means of the Word, or Logos, Finally, also in John, he shows that this Logos became flesh and 'dwelt among us'. Creation took place by the spoken word, for God said 'Let there be…' The spoken word of Genesis, the Logos of John, and the Christ, are all one and the same."[9]

Condemned by both the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches on account of his heterodox Christology, Servetus was burnt at the stake for heresy in 1553, by the Reformed Protestants in Geneva, Switzerland. The French reformer John Calvin, who asserted he would ensure the death of Servetus if he set foot in Geneva because of his non-Reformed views on the Trinity and the sacrament of baptism, requested he be beheaded as a traitor rather than burned as a heretic, but the authorities insisted on executing Servetus by fire.

LagosShia:


You need to understand something here: Jesus (as) is the "word of God" figuratively.but the "word of God" which is God's command and manifestation of God that God continue to use to command and create is not Jesus (as).Jesus (as) was a product of the word.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are in earth, whether they be thrones or dominion, or principalities or powers: all things were created BY HIM and FOR HIM
And he is before all things and by him all things consist"
(Colossians 1:16-17)

So you better change your view.

LagosShia:

Frosbel my friend,let me reveal one secret to you: the more biblical you're the less christian you become! Don't ask me why.find out why.

Yea sure! I agree on this one

LagosShia:

I never said that the "word of God" refer to God's literal voice or a sound.

But since you have forwarded an invitation,let me ask you in what sense is Jesus (as) called the "word of God"?

Let me remind you that you've up till now not proved from the bible the other mythology that Jesus (as) could appear and disappear or materialize and dematerialize.but never mind.you can please answer me on the invitation you just put forward.

Ok simply put......Jesus is the word of God in the sense that he is Yahwehs spokes man....

All Jesus spoke were not his words but words his Father and God has instructed him to speak.......

U and I know why d bible or the quaran is called the word of God......

I can't look @ the bible and imagine its literally Jesus.....

The bible is a book that has Gods words in it....Gods instructions embedded in it.....

Jesus being called the word means he is the chief spokes man of God......

He conveyed Gods message to peoples of the earth.......

Read john 17:25 $ 26

New International Version (NIV)
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does
not know you, I know you, and they know that
you have sent me. 26 I have made you[a] known
to them, and will continue to make you known in
order that the love you have for me may be in
them and that I myself may be in them.”



Jesus is d greatest prophet,servant, apostle,and spokes man of Yahweh(almighty GOD)

Hope u get my point??....


And as regards Jesus's being able to materialize and de-materialize is no much of an issue....

If the bible says Jesus died. Or was killed in the flesh and was ressurected in the spirit(1 peter 3:18),what other explanation best fits why he could become visible to chosen persons around him??

How else do spirits become visible to the eyes of mortals if they don't materialize??

that's why I gave d example of angels who were permitted to be visible to persons in bible times....

Angels visited abraham,isreal,and lot.....they were felt and touched....the angels even ate......to the extent that some lawless persons in sodom and gomorrah wanted to have relations with the angels...those angels had no blood in them....but they were materialized so as to be seen.....

Mind u Yahweh permiTted that Jesus be visible to those who saw him...if not there's no way they would have seen him nor touched him.....

Let's read acts 10:40$41

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
40 God raised Him up on the third day and
granted that He become visible, 41 not to all
the people, but to witnesses who were chosen
beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and
drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
......

Let's see this other re-endition...

Weymouth New Testament
40....That same Jesus God raised to life on the
third day, and permitted Him to appear
unmistakably,


......

Just as the Father allowed spirit sons in d past to appear bodily to mortals in d past,so he did in the case of Jesus....

If not no one,I repeat no one would have been able to see Jesus or recognize him...

Thanks

haibe:

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are in earth, whether they be thrones or dominion, or principalities or powers: all things were created BY HIM and FOR HIM
And he is before all things and by him all things consist"
(Colossians 1:16-17)

So you better change your view.

Sir , let us take the entire chapter into account.

In v2b Paul says the following :
"Grace and peace to you from God our Father"

Then in v3 he follows up with this statement :
3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ , when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all God’s people —

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."


these opening verses show that Paul knew what he was talking about , he never thought that Jesus Christ was GOD.


Coming back to your point, let me quote it again for reference :
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Let me not reinvent the wheel, kindly peruse the wonderful exposition of this scripture. I have highlighted this in blue to demarcate from my own statements or comments.

1. As with all good biblical exegesis, it is important to note the context of the verses and why they would be written and placed where they are. Reading the book of Colossians reveals that the Colossian Church had lost its focus on Christ. Some of the believers at Colosse had, in practice, forsaken their connection with the Head, Jesus Christ, and some were even being led to worship angels (2:18 and 19). The situation in Colosse called for a strong reminder of Christ’s headship over his Church, and the epistle to the Colossians provided just that.

2. These verses cannot be affirming the Trinity because they open with Christ being “the image [eikon] of the invisible God.” If Christ were “God,” then the verse would simply say so, rather than that he was the “image” of God. The Father is plainly called “God” in dozens of places, and this would have been a good place to say that Jesus was God. Instead, we are told that Christ is the image of God. If one thing is the “image” of another thing, then the “image” and the “original” are not the same thing. The Father is God, and that is why there is no verse that calls the Father the image of God. Calling Jesus the image of God squares beautifully with his statement that, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9 and 10).

There are Trinitarian theologians who assert that the word eikon (from which we get the English word “icon,” meaning “image,” or “representation”) means “manifestation” here in Colossians, and that Christ is the manifestation of God. We believe that conclusion is unwarranted. The word eikon occurs 23 times in the New Testament, and it is clearly used as “image” in the common sense of the word. It is used of the image of Caesar on a coin, of idols that are manmade images of gods, of Old Testament things that were only an image of the reality we have today and of the “image” of the beast that occurs in Revelation. 2 Corinthians 3:18 says that Christians are changed into the “image” of the Lord as we reflect his glory. All these verses use “image” in the common sense of the word, i.e., a representation separate from the original. 1 Corinthians 11:7 says, “A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God.” Just as Christ is called the image of God, so men are called the image of God. We are not as exact an image as Christ is because we are marred by sin, but nevertheless the Bible does call us the “image” of God. Thus, the wording about being the image of God is the same for us as it is for Christ. We maintain that the words in the Word must be read and understood in their common or ordinary meaning unless good reason can be given to alter that meaning. In this case, the common meaning of “image” is “likeness” or “resemblance,” and it is used that way every time in the New Testament. Surely if the word “image” took on a new meaning for those times it referred to Christ, the Bible would let us know that. Since it does not, we assert that the use of “image” is the same whether it refers to an image on a coin, an image of a god, or for both Christ and Christians as the image of God.

3. God delegated to Christ His authority to create. Ephesians 2:15 refers to Christ creating “one new man” (his Church) out of Jew and Gentile. In pouring out the gift of holy spirit to each believer (Acts 2:33 and 38), the Lord Jesus has created something new in each of them, that is, the “new man,” their new nature (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15; Eph. 4:24).

4. The Church of the Body of Christ was a brand new entity, created by Christ out of Jew and Gentile. He had to also create the structure and positions that would allow it to function, both in the spiritual world (positions for the angels that would minister to the Church—see Rev. 1:1, “his angel”) and in the physical world (positions and ministries here on earth—see Rom. 12:4-8; Eph. 4:7-11). The Bible describes these physical and spiritual realities by the phrase, “things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible” (1:16).

5. Many people think that because Colossians 1:16 says, “For by him all things were created” that Christ must be God, but the entire verse must be read carefully with an understanding of the usage of words and figures of speech. The study of legitimate figures of speech is an involved one, and the best work we know of was done in 1898 by E. W. Bullinger. It is titled Figures of Speech Used in the Bible and is readily available, having been reprinted many times.

First, the student of the Bible (indeed, of language and life) must be aware that when the word “all” (or “every” or “everything”) is used, it is often used in a limited sense. People use it this way in normal speech in countries and languages all over the world. I (John S.) had an experience of this just the other day. It was late at night and I wanted a cookie before bed. When I told my wife that I wanted a cookie, she said, “The kids ate all the cookies.” Now of course our kids did not eat all the cookies in the world. The implied context was the cookies in the house, and our kids had eaten all of them. This is a good example of “all” being used in a limited sense, and the Bible uses it that way too.

For example, when Absalom was holding a council against his father, David, 2 Samuel 17:14 says that “all the men of Israel” agreed on advice. “All” the men of Israel were not there, but the verse means “all” who were there. Another example is Jeremiah 26:8, which says that “all the people” seized Jeremiah to put him to death, but the context makes it very clear that “all the people” were not even present, and people who came to the scene later wanted to release Jeremiah. 1 John 2:20 (KJV) says of Christians, “ye know all things.” Surely there is no Christian who actually believes that he knows everything. The phrase is using a limited sense of “all,” which is determined by the context.

The point is that whenever one reads the word “all,” a determination must be made as to whether it is being used in the wide sense of “all in the universe,” or in the narrow sense of “all in a certain context.” We believe the narrow sense is called for in Colossians 1:16, and we give more evidence for that in point 6 below (For more on the limited sense of “all,” see the note on John 2:24).

6. An important figure of speech in Colossians 1:16 is called “encircling.” Bullinger notes that the Greeks called this figure of speech epanadiplosis, while the Romans labeled it inclusio (p. 245), and he gives several pages of examples from the Bible to document the figure. He writes: “When this figure is used, it marks what is said as being completed in one complete circle…giving completeness of the statement that is made.” With that in mind, note that the phrase “all things were created” occurs at the beginning and end of the verse, encircling the list of created things: “For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.” The things that are “created” are not rocks, trees, birds and animals, because those things were created by God. These things, “thrones, powers, rulers and authorities,” are the powers and positions that were needed by Christ to run his Church, and were created by him for that purpose. The figure of speech known as “encircling” helps us to identify the proper context of “all things”—that it is the narrower sense of the word “all,” and refers to the things needed to administer the Church.

7. The phrase in verse 17 that “he is before all things” has been used to try to prove that Jesus existed before everything else. However, the word “before” (here pro) can refer to time, place or position (i.e., superiority). This leads us to conclude that the whole point of the section is to show that Christ is “before,” i.e., “superior to” all things, just as the verse says. If someone were to insist that time is involved, we would point out that in the very next verse Christ is the “firstborn” from the dead, and thus “before” his Church in time as well as in position.

Source

The doctrine of the Trinity is built upon shifting sands. It is no more than a mirage that looks real and true but mocks them with its illusion. It is hard to get this message through to a Trinitarian. He is seldom willing or equipped to take the time to investigate te matter seriously and critically. He would rather convince himself his doctrine is being misunderstood and so he instead spends his time reading Trinitarian apologetics to find reasons why he should believe this doctrine and he ignores the facts which indicate why he should not. Indeed, he has been instructed to do just that and it keeps him in the dark.

And it is much more enjoyable for him to look for reasons why he should believe this notion rather than look for reasons why he should not. And indeed, what aging pastor of a Trinitarian based church would want to find out he has believed a deception and has taught a false doctrine of many years to his congregation? It would bring his world crashing down around him. It is much easier to live in the fantasy and promote the illusion and build his house upon the sands and refer to that delusion of sand as his "rock of truth." Few Trinitarians are truly prepared to give up certain things for the sake of truth. They do not wish to entertain the terrifying possible that there just might not be a Santa Claus. That is a cross they are not willing to carry.

Unless you are prepared forsake everything and pick up your cross and follow Him, you cannot be His disciple.

Source

frosbel: The Trinity, which denies Jesus Christ came in the flesh, is not a Biblical teaching. It is a manufactured imagination and is the basis of THE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST.

Because the Trinity teaching is not in the Bible, it is not a "DOCTRINE NECESSARY FOR SALVATION", as some Churches claim when they make it compulsory for their flocks to accept it as 'truth'.

In confirmation of this blatant deceit taught to millions, the ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA once commented.. "The propositions constituent of the dogma of the trinity were not drawn directly from the New Testament and could not be expressed in New Testament terms...they were products of REASON, SPECULATING on a revelation to faith...they were only formed through centuries of effort, only elaborated by the aid of conceptions formulated in the terms of Greek and Roman metaphysics.."

On the back of this nonsense we have other false doctrines such as immortal soul, eternal torment , tithing ( those charlatans ) and a host of others.

It is interesting to note how you are always appealing to extra-biblical writings. That says a lot. The spirit of antichrist is clearly described in the bible. It is not the wrong things you wrote above.
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [1Jn 4:3]

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.[2Jn 1:7]

There is nothing new in what you claim, it is a repetition of old falsehoods. . .so I repost something from 2 years back.

aletheia:
In view of the forgoing then:

John heard a voice. What did the voice say? I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: But who else is declared in the bible as the First and the Last, even before the book of revelation was written?

Isaiah 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Logic: Only One can be First; Two can not be First. Only One can be Last; Two cannot be Last. The One Who is First is also the One Who is Last.

This is what is brought out by this verse:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

So John heard a voice and turned to see who was speaking. Who did John see? And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man,

Who is the Son of Man? Your challenge is this: "What someone says about himself is more important than what people say about the person."
Who calls Himself the Son of Man? I know you know the answer, but in order to help those who may have forgotten or who don't know. . .

Mark 2:10-11. But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

The verses from Mark are particularly revealing of the Deity of Christ, for as the Pharisees rightly asked: ". . .who can forgive sins but God only?" They were not wrong to ask this as the scriptures themselves show.

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
Psa 130:3-4. If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.

Where they missed it was to wilfully, deliberately reject the Scriptures that spoke of God Himself walking with them:
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

As the object lesson in Mark shows; that Jesus did heal the man showed that he had the power to forgive sins.

That this is Jesus Himself speaking is further revealed by the words: "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

All the scriptures testify that it is Jesus who died and indeed rose from the grave, triumphant: Death swallowed up in victory!

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Summing up: Jesus Himself as we see by His very own words declares "I am the first and last" And even in Revelation 1:8 directly declares that He is God as He does in several other places in the Bible.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

. . .The Almighty

From the First Book of the Bible:
Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
From the Last Book of the Bible:
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Edited to add: There can not be two different Almighty for then neither would be Almighty since there would exist another of equal potency, therefore either Jesus was lying in the Book of Revelation (impossible) or He is who He is.

. . .

And have you read this as well in Revelation:

Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Have you compared it to this other scriptures?

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

The scriptures are clear as to who Jesus is. It would do you good to accept their testimony rather than the reasonings of men. Just as in Jesus' day, men have found it difficult to accept His claims. Did they not ask themselves questions like: "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him."

John 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

Isa 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

May God's peace be yours.

For the nonce this is my last post on this thread.

aletheia:
It is interesting to note how you are always appealing to extra-biblical writings. That says a lot. The spirit of antichrist is clearly described in the bible. It is not the wrong things you wrote above.
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [1Jn 4:3]

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.[2Jn 1:7]

There is nothing new in what you claim, it is a repetition of old falsehoods. . .so I repost something from 2 years back.

For the nonce this is my last post on this thread.

The real JESUS who you trinitarians do not seem to know was 100% Human, 100% annointed of God, it is clear that trinitarains are in great need of revelation.

You say Jesus did not come fully in the Flesh as a man but 1/2 Man and 1/2 God the stuff of Pagan Mythology. This is the anti-christ spirit.

Even so called baby Christians seem to grasp this simple truth says a lot.

God bless and help you.

LagosShia:

My friend using emotional outburst to reply with the aim to warn and threaten people not to air their beliefs will not validate your claims.

The verses presented thus far make two point:

1. Jesus descended from heaven
2. He was there "before".Jesus (as) is even recorded as saying "before Abraham was I was".

I explained those two points by talking about Jesus (as) being "the word of God".but I equally stated that the "word of God" is not Jesus (as).when the word/command of God descended upon Mary (as) she conceived.now that is the power and spirit of God Almighty to create.now you cannot say the "word" is in Mary (as) literally because you cannot render God "wordless".God will continue commanding "BE" and His command will manifest.His "word" will keep working and descending from heaven even after Jesus (as) was made and living on earth.

By no means does all that prove that Jesus (as) was in heaven as a living being created/uncreated by God just the way he was on earth.

Now I would ask you to stop your emotional outburst and stop sounding like a nagging woman pleading for something she's deprived of.it doesn't validate your claims.if you want to convince me Jesus (as) pre-existed in heaven as a living being,there is a small challenge or rather christian belief you got to prove using the words of Jesus (as) from the bible.

christians believe Jesus (as) was the one who quelled satan's rebellion in heaven,in the belief that Jesus (as) pre-existed.Jehovah's witnesses have even gone a step further to say Jesus (as) in his "heavenly days" was the angel Michael.now prove to me that Jesus (as) actually pre-existed by proving to me what he did in heaven.validate from Jesus' words in the bible that there was a rebellion in heaven and he was the one who quelled it.

you cannot prove that because it is "christian mythology" formed to fill in a gap and prove a point on Jesus' (as) "divinity" the early church fathers attributed to Jesus (as) to prove he was a "pre-existing god" before he was born by Mary (as).

As for Prophet Muhammad (sa) and also Imam Ali (as) and as a Shia myself,all the twelve holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) we have a belief recorded in Sunni texts that they were pre-existing in the form of the light God created to make them.but we do not claim at all they were living beings in heaven as they were on earth.here is a narration for you to see:

the Prophet (sa): "I and Ali were created of the same Divine Light 14,000 years before Adam was created".(Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, Mir Seyyed Ali Hamadani in Mawaddatu'l-Qurba, Ibn Maghazili Shafi'i in Manaqib, and Dailami in Firdaus have quoted the Prophet s.a. )

*sigh*

@frosbel

The real JESUS who you trinitarians do not seem to know was 100% Human, 100% annointed of God, it is clear that trinitarains are in great need of revelation.

You say Jesus did not come fully in the Flesh as a man but 1/2 Man and 1/2 God the stuff of Pagan Mythology. This is the anti-christ spirit.

Even so called baby Christians seem to grasp this simple truth says a lot.

God bless and help you.

Can you see that the jehovahs witnesses are tackling your points logically and comprehensivevely?, but then i want to get s'thing clear!, are you just using a their religion to suppress another? you end up beefing trinitarians? and stupidly joined them in your topic that jws and trinitarians got s'thing wrong? sorry, i think i need to bash you now, and im prepared for you you, broda agbaya! reply me pls! i will be back.

@frosbel

i believed that you personally lack some logical trainings in build-ups on common issues that even the least of jehovahs witnesses will address with ease, i dont see 'you' with your childish points on jesus being ressurected boidily which he did,and even thomas touching a body and precisely the point with which jesus was nailed as an evidence, materialising body or not is yet to be proven in this case by you! but then thomas touched 'jesus body' he felt it,and made a statement that 'he now agreed' that 'yes jesus' the same jesus that was nailed bodily was ressurected with the same pieced body! you are yet to prove otherwise in the face of thomas exclamation!

i will be back!

frosbel: I was shocked in another thread when my beloved JW friends denied that Jesus Christ DID NOT resurrect bodily.

And then our Trinitarian brother said Jesus existed as the second part of the trinity before he came to earth.

This brought fear and tears to my eyes.


I will tell you why :


1. If Jesus Christ did not resurrect bodily then what hope have the dead who are locked in their graves ?


"12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished." - 1 Corinthians 15:12-18


2. If Jesus Christ existed as second person in a Trinity, then the whole purpose of the gospel is defeated because it means that the word of GOD did not become flesh and this in my opinion is wrong.


Brethren, what is so hard in accepting that God begat a Son in the flesh through his Word , this Son scarified his life for you and me through the Spirit , died , rose again in bodly form and now has the keys of hades and death to give eternal life through the Spirit to all who will place their faith in him.

Why are we following the doctrines of men through the teachings of our institutions.

Consider this , please do, let us not be part of the apostate church .

thanks.

frosbel easy, the trinitarian didnt deny the bodily resurrection. The last time i check only d Jw and some other few sects doubted the bodily resurrection.

frosbel:

The real JESUS who you trinitarians do not seem to know was 100% Human, 100% annointed of God, it is clear that trinitarains are in great need of revelation.

You say Jesus did not come fully in the Flesh as a man but 1/2 Man and 1/2 God the stuff of Pagan Mythology. This is the anti-christ spirit.

Even so called baby Christians seem to grasp this simple truth says a lot.

God bless and help you.

frosbel u have started twisting most trinitarian believe that christ was fully human and fully divine, where did u here ur 1/2 human idea? Or have u start to make up ur own stuff?

Ubenedictus: frosbel easy, the trinitarian didnt deny the bodily resurrection. The last time i check only d Jw and some other few sects doubted the bodily resurrection.

_u culd add d apostle peter...he said Jesus was raised up in the spirit not in the flesh....

Thank u!!!!!

U think we blind fold our eyes to scriptures just to believe what we choose to believe??...

You could start by asking yourself how Jesus was able to pass through a locked room......

Can flesh do that??

Ubenedictus: frosbel u have started twisting most trinitarian believe that christ was fully human and fully divine, where did u here ur 1/2 human idea? Or have u start to make up ur own stuff?

Ur fellows state that Jesus was GOD in flesh.....

They quote the (spurious extract) 1 timothy 3:16 to prove that....

But later on it back fired when Jesus said he didn't know when the end will come but only Yahweh did.......

ijawkid:

Ok simply put......Jesus is the word of God in the sense that he is Yahwehs spokes man....

All Jesus spoke were not his words but words his Father and God has instructed him to speak.......

U and I know why d bible or the quaran is called the word of God......

I can't look @ the bible and imagine its literally Jesus.....

The bible is a book that has Gods words in it....Gods instructions embedded in it.....

Jesus being called the word means he is the chief spokes man of God......

He conveyed Gods message to peoples of the earth.......

Read john 17:25 $ 26

New International Version (NIV)
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does
not know you, I know you, and they know that
you have sent me. 26 I have made you[a] known
to them, and will continue to make you known in
order that the love you have for me may be in
them and that I myself may be in them.”



Jesus is d greatest prophet,servant, apostle,and spokes man of Yahweh(almighty GOD)

Hope u get my point??....

You said if the "word of God" was literally a voice God would become voiceless ( "dumb in heaven" as you it put) with the coming of Jesus (as) to the earth.

So when Jesus (as) was on earth,was God "wordless"?

Do you agree Jesus (as) is the "word of God" but the word of God is not Jesus? I can see you described Jesus (as) as "chief spokesman".that means he isn't the only.right?

And as regards Jesus's being able to materialize and de-materialize is no much of an issue....

If the bible says Jesus died. Or was killed in the flesh and was ressurected in the spirit(1 peter 3:18),what other explanation best fits why he could become visible to chosen persons around him??

How else do spirits become visible to the eyes of mortals if they don't materialize??

that's why I gave d example of angels who were permitted to be visible to persons in bible times....

Angels visited abraham,isreal,and lot.....they were felt and touched....the angels even ate......to the extent that some lawless persons in sodom and gomorrah wanted to have relations with the angels...those angels had no blood in them....but they were materialized so as to be seen.....

Mind u Yahweh permiTted that Jesus be visible to those who saw him...if not there's no way they would have seen him nor touched him.....

Let's read acts 10:40$41

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
40 God raised Him up on the third day and
granted that He become visible, 41 not to all
the people, but to witnesses who were chosen
beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and
drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
......

Let's see this other re-endition...

Weymouth New Testament
40....That same Jesus God raised to life on the
third day, and permitted Him to appear
unmistakably,


......

Just as the Father allowed spirit sons in d past to appear bodily to mortals in d past,so he did in the case of Jesus....

If not no one,I repeat no one would have been able to see Jesus or recognize him...

Thanks

First we are not talking about angels here who can appear and disappear.I'm talking about a man who is claimed to have resurrected and is expected thereafter to be spiritualized.

You comparing him to angels means resurrected bodies can both be physical and spiritual.but as I know christianity insists on resurrected bodies only being spiritualized.

If there is any scriptural basis for your claims bring it forth.prove to us that Jesus (as) could materialize and dematerialize.also prove to us that resurrected bodies can both be physical and spiritualized.I am insisting on you giving me proof because you're making conclusions and deducting when christianity doesn't support that resurrected humans can both be spiritualized and physical.in the case of humans christianity insists on solely spiritualized resurrected beings.and we are not angels.so are you now saying resurrected humans can be both physical and spirits?

I want you to answer my questions so we get things straight.presenting whole explanations while avoiding the details amount to evading the questions.

When Jesus (as) was asking his disciples to feel him,I don't think he was proven to them he is a spirit or has just resurrected.he was proving he was physical.or don't you agree?

LagosShia:
You said if the "word of God" was literally a voice God would become voiceless ( "dumb in heaven" as you it put) with the coming of Jesus (as) to the earth.

So when Jesus (as) was on earth,was God "wordless"?

Do you agree Jesus (as) is the "word of God" but the word of God is not Jesus? I can see you described Jesus (as) as "chief spokesman".that means he isn't the only.right?



First we are not talking about angels here who can appear and disappear.I'm talking about a man who is claimed to have resurrected and is expected thereafter to be spiritualized.

You comparing him to angels means resurrected bodies can both be physical and spiritual.but as I know christianity insists on resurrected bodies only being spiritualized.

If there is any scriptural basis for your claims bring it forth.prove to us that Jesus (as) could materialize and dematerialize.also prove to us that resurrected bodies can both be physical and spiritualized.I am insisting on you giving me proof because you're making conclusions and deducting when christianity doesn't support that resurrected humans can both be spiritualized and physical.in the case of humans christianity insists on solely spiritualized resurrected beings.and we are not angels.so are you now saying resurrected humans can be both physical and spirits?

I want you to answer my questions so we get things straight.presenting whole explanations while avoiding the details amount to evading the questions.

When Jesus (as) was asking his disciples to feel him,I don't think he was proven to them he is a spirit or has just resurrected.he was proving he was physical.or don't you agree?

My point in all of this is that::::

Only spirit creatures can materialize and de-materialize..

That has being my point all along...

If we cling to the fact that Jesus was raised up in the flesh ofcus which is contrary to peters inspired words @ 1 peter 3:18,then we'll have to agree that Jesus never went back to heaven......

Because flesh cannot reside in heaven.....

How many times do I have to make this statement.....??

For Jesus to ascend to heaven and live there means he is a spirit as we speak.....

I'm speaking from d bibles view point....

Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit just like the angels b4 descending to the earth......

Now he's back to where he came from...

U expect him to be a flesh up there??

Please let me quote 1 corinthians 15:44 $ 45

New International
Version (NIV)
44 it is sown a
natural body, it is
raised a spiritual
body.
If there is a natural
body, there is also a
spiritual body. 45 So
it is written: “The
first man Adam
became a living
being”[a]; the last
Adam, a life-giving
""spirit"".

Jesus is a spirit in the heaven....

Only spirits leave in heaven....

If u agree to that then u shuld knw Jesus did materialize to appear to his freinds and later ascended to heaven.....

@lagoshia....

Jesus is Gods chief spokes man....

Meaning he is the oga of all prophets who have talked about Yahweh.....

He being the ""word"" means he carried 1st hand message of truth about the Father....

Nobody has explained the Father more than the way Jesus did.......

The both of us are on the same page when we say Jesus was Gods prophet.....but Jesus is the greatest of all servants,prophets etc......

Got it??

All I did was explain in what sense Jesus is called ""the word of GOD""....

Hope u understand??

ijawkid:

My point in all of this is that::::

Only spirit creatures can materialize and de-materialize..

That has being my point all along...

If we cling to the fact that Jesus was raised up in the flesh ofcus which is contrary to peters inspired words @ 1 peter 3:18,then we'll have to agree that Jesus never went back to heaven......

Because flesh cannot reside in heaven.....

How many times do I have to make this statement.....??

For Jesus to ascend to heaven and live there means he is a spirit as we speak.....

I'm speaking from d bibles view point....

Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit just like the angels b4 descending to the earth......

Now he's back to where he came from...

U expect him to be a flesh up there??

Please let me quote 1 corinthians 15:44 $ 45

New International
Version (NIV)
44 it is sown a
natural body, it is
raised a spiritual
body.
If there is a natural
body, there is also a
spiritual body. 45 So
it is written: “The
first man Adam
became a living
being”[a]; the last
Adam, a life-giving
""spirit"".

Jesus is a spirit in the heaven....

Only spirits leave in heaven....

If u agree to that then u shuld knw Jesus did materialize to appear to his freinds and later ascended to heaven.....

You are going in circles.

When I ask how come the disciples could touch an alleged resurrected body,you claim he can "materilize" and "dematerialize".when I ask you to prove he could materialize and dematerialize,you still go back to tell me he was a resurrected spirit.as in common,think! When I asked you how could he have eaten as a spirit,you claim he could materialize! As in seriously are you convincing yourself?

I presented you two verses earlier where the disciples are promised bread and wine to dine in heaven.

Please prove to me spirits or resurrected human bodies can eat and drink.what are you making of the christian belief in a spiritual paradise with no food? Based on what you're explaining resurrected bodies can be physical as well as spiritualized.what happens to "flesh cannot reside in heaven"? Won't the disciples eat and drink in heaven with Jesus (as)?

Like I said when I started contributing to this topic,this topic is a thorn for christians and confusing to even them because your bible mixed things up on this.

LagosShia:

John 3:13 (KJV)
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven

This doesn't prove Jesus (as) pre-existed in heaven.this is a narration apparently written after Jesus (as) has "ascended"."Came down from heaven" can be understood as an idiom refering to Jesus (as) being fatherless.

John 6:38 also doesn't say he lived or pre-existed in heaven but that he descended from heaven.

John 6:62 when understood figuratively and taken in context with other verses it clearly doesn't say Jesus (as) pre-existed.let's take a look at this:

John 6:42
They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"

Jesus (as) is also known as the "word of God" because God made him through His word/command "BE" and "he became".so the "word" (logos) is from heaven and descended upon Mary (as).

You need to understand something here: Jesus (as) is the "word of God" figuratively.but the "word of God" which is God's command and manifestation of God that God continue to use to command and create is not Jesus (as).Jesus (as) was a product of the word.

^^^
it is actually something very bad/wrong for someone to come out with Preconceived idears about CHRIST and wishes to sell such irrespective of what the bible says, it can only show that such a person is a deceit.

Lagoshia, has not done any thing other than trying to prove that Jesus and muhamad are equal and just prophet that have never existed befor.

Let us see how deceitful he is.

LagosShia:
John 6:38 also doesn't say he lived or pre-existed in heaven but that he descended from heaven.

here is a clear statment by Jesus showing that he had existed befor in heaven, but he refuses to quote that scripture out since it clearly expose him, rather he wrote out the bible portion and made an unrelated statment.

What does that John 6:38 that he is trying to hide says:
"because i have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me"

that is a clear statement that you refered to as an idiomatic expression.

And you will not quote it out else it will expose you for what you are. A "liarq"

LagosShia:
John 6:38 also doesn't say he lived or pre-existed in heaven but that he descended from heaven.

John 6:62 when understood figuratively

LagosShia: John 3:13 (KJV)
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven

This doesn't prove Jesus (as) pre-existed in heaven.this is a narration apparently written after Jesus (as) has "ascended"."Came down from heaven" can be understood as an idiom refering to Jesus (as) being fatherless.

does that scripture needs an explanation?

Now, as regard that obvious Statement, you say it an idiomatic express what other thing will you not say about Jesus words as such?

Was that really an idiomatic expression? No
lets here him again, John 6:62:

"what therefor if you should behold the son of man ascending to where he was befor?"
and that was what Jesus did, he ascended into heaven in the presence of his disciples. But the muslim dont like this and will not accept this since they want to teach that islam is the one only true religion, should your folly be my pain? No.

The bible at john 3:13 clearly said that Jesus descended from heaven, that your region and quran does not agree/teach that does not concern christianity it is your own concern and we accept what the bible says as final and when the bible says something we do not need a muslim to come explain to us what a clear scriture like this is saying.
Stick to your quran and we shall stick to our bible and whatever comes from it we ACCEPT.

LagosShia:
John 6:42
They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"

your deceit is very glaring, you accepted the reaction of the pherise that says that Jesus parent and brothers are with us as a real statement but the statement of Jesus you say it is an "idiom", why not also say that the pharisees got the idea wrong also and as such there reply was wrong? No, you quoted their statement as factual but that of Jesus you called "idiom", hypocrite you,

"by there fruit we will recognise them"
is this statement also an idiom?
Cause it is having a fulfilment in YOU.

LagosShia: Jesus (as) is the "word of God" figuratively.but the "word of God" which is God's command and manifestation of God that God continue to use to command and create is not Jesus (as).Jesus (as) was a product of the word

lets see John 17:4,5
Jesus says, father i have glorify you on earth, having finish the work you sent me, so now you, father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that i had alongside you befor the world was.
Was this also an idiomatic expression?
HYPOCRITE!
You quoted two bible and use your hands to cover it so that you can explain what you dont even understand away as to deceive people like you.
No wander you succeed in sending people on sucide missions.

What do i have to benefit in misrepresenting or wat the bible say? Nothing, all i can do is give out the truth just the way it is, at least at the end of the the God will find out that i was a honest man.
Isaiah 5:20

LagosShia:

You are going in circles.

When I ask how come the disciples could touch an alleged resurrected body,you claim he can "materilize" and "dematerialize".when I ask you to prove he could materialize and dematerialize,you still go back to tell me he was a resurrected spirit.as in common,think! When I asked you how could he have eaten as a spirit,you claim he could materialize! As in seriously are you convincing yourself?

I presented you two verses earlier where the disciples are promised bread and wine to dine in heaven.

Please prove to me spirits or resurrected human bodies can eat and drink.what are you making of the christian belief in a spiritual paradise with no food? Based on what you're explaining resurrected bodies can be physical as well as spiritualized.what happens to "flesh cannot reside in heaven"? Won't the disciples eat and drink in heaven with Jesus (as)?

Like I said when I started contributing to this topic,this topic is a thorn for christians and confusing to even them because your bible mixed things up on this.

I had earlier proved angels who are spirits ate bread wit abraham....

Did that lil reminder elude your hearing??

U agreed angels could materialize and infact did were touched and felt and even ate....

So what is hard for u to understand??

The reason why I was re-iterating the fact that Jesus was raised up in the spirit is because you were worried as to how Jesus was able to eat, appear bodily to his apostles while the bible says he is a ""life giving spirit""........

If angels were permitted to do it(materialize and de-materialize) in the past,Jesus too was permitted.......

Got it??

Your problem is that ur relunctant to believe that Jesus existed in heaven as a spirit creature b4 coming to earth.....

If u did you'll understand every bit of what the bible is saying......

LagosShia:

You are going in circles.

When I ask how come the disciples could touch an alleged resurrected body,you claim he can "materilize" and "dematerialize".when I ask you to prove he could materialize and dematerialize,you still go back to tell me he was a resurrected spirit.as in common,think! When I asked you how could he have eaten as a spirit,you claim he could materialize! As in seriously are you convincing yourself?

I presented you two verses earlier where the disciples are promised bread and wine to dine in heaven.

Please prove to me spirits or resurrected human bodies can eat and drink.what are you making of the christian belief in a spiritual paradise with no food? Based on what you're explaining resurrected bodies can be physical as well as spiritualized.what happens to "flesh cannot reside in heaven"? Won't the disciples eat and drink in heaven with Jesus (as)?

Like I said when I started contributing to this topic,this topic is a thorn for christians and confusing to even them because your bible mixed things up on this.

I had earlier proved angels who are spirits ate bread wit abraham....

Did that lil reminder elude your hearing??

U agreed angels could materialize and infact did were touched and felt and even ate....

So what is hard for u to understand??

The reason why I was re-iterating the fact that Jesus was raised up in the spirit is because you were worried as to how Jesus was able to eat, appear bodily to his apostles while the bible says he is a ""life giving spirit""........

If angels were permitted to do it(materialize and de-materialize) in the past,Jesus too was permitted.......

Got it??

Your problem is that ur relunctant to believe that Jesus existed in heaven as a spirit creature b4 coming to earth.....

If u did you'll understand every bit of what the bible is saying......

ijawkid:

My point in all of this is that::::

Only spirit creatures can materialize and de-materialize..

That has being my point all along...

If we cling to the fact that Jesus was raised up in the flesh ofcus which is contrary to peters inspired words @ 1 peter 3:18,then we'll have to agree that Jesus never went back to heaven......

Because flesh cannot reside in heaven.....

How many times do I have to make this statement.....??

For Jesus to ascend to heaven and live there means he is a spirit as we speak.....

I'm speaking from d bibles view point....

Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit just like the angels b4 descending to the earth......

Now he's back to where he came from...

U expect him to be a flesh up there??

Please let me quote 1 corinthians 15:44 $ 45

New International
Version (NIV)
44 it is sown a
natural body, it is
raised a spiritual
body.
If there is a natural
body, there is also a
spiritual body. 45 So
it is written: “The
first man Adam
became a living
being”[a]; the last
Adam, a life-giving
""spirit"".

Jesus is a spirit in the heaven....

Only spirits leave in heaven....

If u agree to that then u shuld knw Jesus did materialize to appear to his freinds and later ascended to heaven.....

additionally, we have two places of inheritance, heavenly and earthly matthew 5:3,5. And psalm 37:29

So, how one resurects is a function of his inheritance/dwelling.

We have the first resurrection and the second resurrection. Revelation 20:5,6 and Revelation 20:12,13

so, if the resurrection is to heaven the heavenly body will be given accordingly, but if the resurrection is for earthly dwelling, the earthly body will be given accordingly.

ijawkid:

_u culd add d apostle peter...he said Jesus was raised up in the spirit not in the flesh....

Thank u!!!!!

U think we blind fold our eyes to scriptures just to believe what we choose to believe??...

You could start by asking yourself how Jesus was able to pass through a locked room......

Can flesh do that??

hahaha, my friend u are trying to twist scriptures to suite ur intention. His flesh, (body) was transformed became spiritual, and glorified so he could do those stuff. Job said "i know on the last day i shall rise up with my skin". Take scripture as a unified whole and u would stop these ur funny ideas

ijawkid:

Ur fellows state that Jesus was GOD in flesh.....

They quote the (spurious extract) 1 timothy 3:16 to prove that....

But later on it back fired when Jesus said he didn't know when the end will come but only Yahweh did.......

i have tried to tell u that d fullness of d divinity, diety, Godhead dwelt in christ in d flesh, whether u agree or not with scripture doesnt affect it. Argument like this havent been helpful on nairaland, i wont be a part of something that doesnt help.

LagosShia:

You are going in circles.

When I ask how come the disciples could touch an alleged resurrected body,you claim he can "materilize" and "dematerialize".when I ask you to prove he could materialize and dematerialize,you still go back to tell me he was a resurrected spirit.as in common,think! When I asked you how could he have eaten as a spirit,you claim he could materialize! As in seriously are you convincing yourself?

I presented you two verses earlier where the disciples are promised bread and wine to dine in heaven.

Please prove to me spirits or resurrected human bodies can eat and drink.what are you making of the christian belief in a spiritual paradise with no food? Based on what you're explaining resurrected bodies can be physical as well as spiritualized.what happens to "flesh cannot reside in heaven"? Won't the disciples eat and drink in heaven with Jesus (as)?

Like I said when I started contributing to this topic,this topic is a thorn for christians and confusing to even them because your bible mixed things up on this.

you are actually the one mixing things up, the bible words are very clear on this.

The question that he is trying to explain to you is also what is being discuss here, how jesus was resurected.
When one question is being answered you mixe it up with another question.

Is the issue about food in heaven?

He has shown to you that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person as such he was behaving as a spirit person as it is consistent with the behavioural parent for SPIRIT person in the OT,

he also showed to you the words of peter that shows that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person, but you will not respect the bible but started talking about food, did the angels that came to lot not eat food with him?

Face one thing at a time, will you?

Ubenedictus: i have tried to tell u that d fullness of d divinity, diety, Godhead dwelt in christ in d flesh, whether u agree or not with scripture doesnt affect it. Argument like this havent been helpful on nairaland, i wont be a part of something that doesnt help.

:-).....

Jesus was filled with d holy spirit.....isn't it??

Ur thoughts on the fÙllness of divinity is what has landed us in this wahala.........

U mis-understand the whole thing and conclude Jesus is God almighty in flesh.....

But that thought always back fires....

The trinity is whÀt has caused thÍs whole chaos....

It shuld never have been brought up ........

The dogma is confu§ion itself.....

Ubenedictus: hahaha, my friend u are trying to twist scriptures to suite ur intention. His flesh, (body) was transformed became spiritual, and glorified so he could do those stuff. Job said "i know on the last day i shall rise up with my skin". Take scripture as a unified whole and u would stop these ur funny ideas

U are the one whose not reading d bible in full to get d sense of it.......

Which skin will those who were burÑt on stakes and beheaded ressurect with??

And besides jobs statement was directed to those who will be ressurected to earthly life...not to heaven....

Job never had d thought of d fact of persons ressurecting to heaven....those guys weren't born agains.....so heaven wasn't part of there agenda...

Since ur taught all righteous persons go to heaven u'll barely understand jobs statement.....

Besides it is from ur types that I heard flesh can live in heaven.....

Jesus is a spirit......

He is a life giving ""spirit""

And it seems u haven't really checked out peter's words....

Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive or ressurected in the spirit.....

truthislight:

you are actually the one mixing things up, the bible words are very clear on this.

The question that he is trying to explain to you is also what is being discuss here, how jesus was resurected.
When one question is being answered you mixe it up with another question.

Is the issue about food in heaven?

He has shown to you that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person as such he was behaving as a spirit person as it is consistent with the behavioural parent for SPIRIT person in the OT,

he also showed to you the words of peter that shows that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person, but you will not respect the bible but started talking about food, did the angels that came to lot not eat food with him?

Face one thing at a time, will you?

As you like my frien,you're free to believe.it was nice talking with you.do have a good night.

ijawkid:

:-).....

Jesus was filled with d holy spirit.....isn't it??

u said the holyspirit is a inpersonal force, how can a force be "the fullness of the Godhead"? Answer me, how can anyone wu isnt God posses not just the Godhead but "the fullness"? U are trying to dodge, instead of facing one issue u simply jump to another like u did below.

Ur thoughts on the fÙllness of divinity is what has landed us in this wahala.........

what are ur thoughts on "the fullness of the divinity"? Or are u going to tell me that angels posses the fullness of the divinity too abi? I know that will be ur next idea.

U mis-understand the whole thing and conclude Jesus is God almighty in flesh.....

tell me how someone wu isnt God can have "the fullness of the divinity". He didnt just have a full anointing, full of grace and truth, tell me how manage he has the fullnes of the divinity.

But that thought always back fires....

so says d guy wu hasnt explained how what he calls a 'creature' has the fullness of the divinity.

The trinity is whÀt has caused thÍs whole chaos....

It shuld never have been brought up ........

The dogma is confu§ion itself.....

hahaha, u are just trying to dodge the truth of scripture, welldone, but it didnt work.