Boomark:

So to prevent the bolded from happening, you felt the best thing to do is to bring Them together and give Them equal power abi co-equality? Even though it is found no where in the scriptures.

We are all here to learn. Whether He pre-existed or not. The truth will be known.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]

Wow frosbel, you amaze me. There is a rule of thumb which I normally use when interpreting scriptures and it is this: "If the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense".

When you start with your own preconcieved notion of what the bible ought to be, you will force your own interpretations into scripture and trust me you will find scripture that seems to validate your bias. The question here is: At what price?

When I read the bible, I know prophecy when I see it and I know literal speech when I see it. The problem here is that you have started with the premise that Christ did not pre-exist before being born by Mary. It will now make no sense to you when all the verses of scripture are referred to where Christ talks about coming from above and being with the Father, sharing glory with Him, learning from Him, knowing that the father prepares a place for us e.t.c. even the whole notion of the Word becoming flesh falls apart once you deny Christ's pre-existence. This is the price you will have to pay.

In another thread, I was trying to draw you back to the person of Christ and who He is but you ran away.

You have started along this line of "anti-trinity" the consequence is that Jesus Christ will become smaller and smaller and God the Father will become further and further away while the Holy Ghost will become progressively more abstract. Eventually God becomes so strange to you that you will deny Him.

You may not know it now but that is where you are headed. Mark my words: That is the price you will eventually pay if you do not repent. I am not interested in winning an argument with you, I am only interested in drawing you back to Him.

Image123:
why won't you have a hard day? it is hard for anyone to kick against the pr. icks.

Boomark:

So to prevent the bolded from happening, you felt the best thing to do is to bring Them together and give Them equal power abi co-equality? Even though it is found no where in the scriptures.

We are all here to learn. Whether He pre-existed or not. The truth will be known.

Mr_Anony:
My friend frosbel, you are still rationalizing stuff while dodging the question: According to John 1, Is Jesus the same as the Word or is Jesus a creation of it?

I will keep reminding you of this question until you get it. I really am not interested in dragging out a "trinity war" all I want is for you to know Christ. Until you know the person of Christ, Christianity will continue to elude you.

cyrexx: Oops.... Double post

Image123: John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

frosbel:

some of us have real jobs that make us work hard , we do not rely on tithes and offerings to survive you see

frosbel:

Yes Abraham rejoiced to see the day that the Messiah will come and restore the kingdom to Israel.

"and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me." - Genesis 22:18

That offspring is JESUS and through him all the nations on earth are blessed.

[quote author=Image123]
you have referred to me and others as sick and deluded, and you are here playing injured? i tell you what you learnt deeply in the past months, hypocrisy.
It takes humility to stand a chance to understand the unity of the diversity in the Trinity.

*Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

*Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

*Gen 11:7 [color=#990000]Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

*Gen 18:1 Yahweh appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day.

Gen 18:2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and saw that three men stood opposite him. When he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself to the earth,

Mr_Anony:
My friend frosbel, you are still rationalizing stuff while dodging the question: According to John 1, Is Jesus the same as the Word or is Jesus a creation of it?

I will keep reminding you of this question until you get it. I really am not interested in dragging out a "trinity war" all I want is for you to know Christ. Until you know the person of Christ, Christianity will continue to elude you.

Image123:
Your post would make sense if the verse read,
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and was glad.
Thank God, it reads instead
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
i've continued to say that you need revelation.

frosbel:


Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD , if this is not enough for you , you are beyond any help.

Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the Christ.

Try not to make me fit into your 3-god fantasy !

Mr_Anony:
Lol the same classic evasion techniques.

John 1 talks about the Word. Question was is this Word Jesus Christ? Yes or no. If no, Who then is this Word?

You can keep dancing around it if you like

I think it was the Trinity doctrine I called deluded, but if this was directed at you personally accept my apologies, not that I think you will ever apologise for the insults you have rained down on me together with your Trinitarian friends. In fact words like i.diot , fool etc have been thrown around by Trinitarians, so much for having the spirit of Christ.

Again GOD is ONE , I want no part of a 3-headed Trinity , ONE GOD is enough for me and yes I love his SON Jesus and especially for the great sacrifice he made for my soul.

and according to Mr. Image123 US = 3 , lol.

This US is the plurality of God's majesty in consultation with the heavenly host.

angel messengers from GOD acting on his behalf.

so Abraham saw the day of JESUS before he was Born , lol.

I can't help you anymore.

frosbel:


Ha.

I was waiting for your update , btw you have not started your other discussion, lol.

The WORD was not JESUS , the word was the WORD of GOD , and this WORD was made FLESH in the person of JESUS the Glory of GOD.

V14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

also if you carefully examine this scripture , it did not say , the glory of the one and only GOD who came from the Father, John wants us to make no mistake about the message he was trying to convey , to reiterate so that you might get it , he used the phrase the one and only Son who came from the Father not the one and only second person of a Trinity , no ?

Otherwise we would expect John to write , in the beginning was the SON or better still , in the beginning was JESUS.

God's WORD , the embodiment of all his intent , purposes and plans throughout the ages as prophesied from Genesis to Malachi , was manifested in this SON Christ who came into being when conceived by Mary after the implantation of the incorruptible seed of GOD into her womb.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]

Good, at least we are beginning to get somewhere. I believe you agree that the Word is God and is eternal. I would like you to note from verse 2 that the word is clearly referred to as a being.

He was with God in the beginning. NIV

And it goes on to describe the Word as a person upto the point that the Word becomes flesh and beyond

This would tell you that this Person (the Word) only took upon Himself a human form.

If you want to claim figurative speech: that the Word here is not referring to a being, then please be sure to claim it all the way through the whole of the chapter.

This tallies with Phil 2:5-11 (NIV)

5In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Apart from these two places, there are numerous places where Jesus makes it clear that He came down from Heaven and will go back to the father.

One very clear example is in John 3:11-13 NIV:

11Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

You are yet to show us on this thread one concrete scriptural proof that makes it categorically clear that Jesus DID NOT pre-exist before birth. All I see you have done so far is resist every suggestion that He pre-existed by seeking out an alternate meaning to it.

Image123: @frosb

Can you attempt to prove this false accusation? Why are you accusing me falsely like a pharisee? Are you a pharisee?


John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Ah ah, you don't believe the words of Jesus? well anony just prophesied your path, hmmm. I don't and never need/needed your help. God is my Helper.

frosbel:

The usual rambling with no coherency or possibility of comprehension.

frosbel: of course the WORD of GOD is eternal , but the WORD of GOD as defined in John 1:1 is what is says , his WORD.

And this WORD was made flesh or fulfilled in the Person of Christ Jesus.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham
rejoiced to see my day: and he
saw it, and was glad.
Ah ah, you don't believe the
words of Jesus? well anony just
prophesied your path, hmmm. I
don't and never need/needed
your help. God is my Helper.

frosbel: It was with GOD in the beginning.

[quote author=aletheia]
The Word in John 1:1 is not just His Word. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Do you think the underlined words will go away, just because you pretend they are not recorded.

Just go back to cutting-and-pasting.

At least you were more coherent then. Now, you present a confused and incoherent hodge-podge of contradictions as in the post referenced here. It was so painfully obvious how you squirmed and turned just to avoid bringing into consideration these words: the Word was God.

oiseworld: @frosbel, from your write ups, since Jesus grew up as a child and he learnt the scripture like every other person and became a proffesor at the age of 12.

*At what point did Jesus know he was conceived by the Holy Spirit ?
*when did he know he was the messiah and was going to die? Was it thru his day to day study of the scriptures......

You can't just conclude christ came to existence in the womb of mary and he knew and understood his mission of reconciliation completely. He new things that was, is and is to come. Maybe God just downloaded stuffs into his head like that.

Check anbe sure.


Ask the spirit again.