Segeggs: Wasnt it through him other things were made?

[quote author=honeychild]Jesus did not mince words he made it abundantly clear about his pre-human existence

John 6:38-for I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but the will of him who sent me.

John 8:23 - but he continued, you are from below, I am from above. You are from this world, I am not from this world.

John 17:5 - Father glorify me in your presence with the glory I had alongside you before the world was created.

Frank4YAHWEH: I fully agree with you frosbel. I also believe that Yahshua was "a man" and not a "God-man" as many deceptively teach. Scripture clearly teaches that the Messaih had the same origin as all men and mankind most certainly did not pre-exist their birth.

Frank4YAHWEH: I fully agree with you frosbel. I also believe that Yahshua was "a man" and not a "God-man" as many deceptively teach. Scripture clearly teaches that the Messaih had the same origin as all men and mankind most certainly did not pre-exist their birth.

Segeggs: are you guys now saying that he never existed until he was born?

shdemidemi: Frosbel and all his unedifying arguments, What is this again? I won't be surprise if you wake up one day to say the bible is just a story book, and of course you would always find a document to back it up online. Imagine him challenging scripture with his 'all knowing' fore brain without using scripture to his defence.

frosbel:

Well the same way you think you know it all
Anyway , let me explain:
"This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit." - This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit - Matthew 1:18
The verse above explains, if you remove all the complex theology of incarnation , the simple and natural process by which Jesus came into the world just like any other MAN ,with one small difference, his mother conceived not by the implanted seed of MAN ,but by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
You begin to wonder why Jesus said these things have been revealed to babes, it is the wise who form volumes and volumes of garbage called theology and end up muddling the simple process by which the Messiah was born into the world.
In fact this was predicted in Psalms by David when he said :
"The king proclaims the LORD's decree: "The LORD said to me, 'You are my son. Today I have become your Father." - Psalm 2:7

Clearly there was a DAY that Jesus became the Son of GOD and this was when Mary gave birth to him.
The Messiah came in the flesh, he did not come as some greek mythological half god and half man, that is the stuff of Pagans.
Let's look at another beautiful scripture :

Psalm 80:17-19
New International Version (NIV)
17 Let your hand rest on the man at your right hand,
the son of man you have raised up for yourself.
18 Then we will not turn away from you;
revive us, and we will call on your name.
Clearly Jesus was raised up for a purpose that God has planned throughout the ages , for the salvation of his people and thus the entire world.
Moses attested to this when he said :
"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him." - Deuteronomy 18:15
Clearly God was going to raise his SON from among the people of GOD , for the salvation of the whole world.
Jesus was a 100% MAN and Son of the living GOD.
Why make a simple case complex ?
:For further reference read Matthew 1:21 .

shdemidemi:

It seem anything you cannot grasp is pagan to you.. Anyway, Christ is the physical image of the father. The scripture says in Acts 7:1-2

“Then said the high priest, Are these things so? (And Stephen answers.) 2. Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory (What’s the word?) appeared unto our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran.”

Now the word appeared there is the Greek word optomahei, from which we get optometry. And it literally is translated—visibly seen.

Also, in Genesis 17:1

“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, (That’s almost a hundred.) the LORD (Now what’s the word?) appeared (Visibly. Physically. In human form. Temporarily.) unto Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; (Now, the Hebrew word there is El Shaddai, the Almighty.) walk before me, and be thou perfect.” In other words, be upright and be a mature man of faith.

frosbel:

You are getting more and more confused Bro, come back to the basics.

honeychild: Jesus did not mince words he made it abundantly clear about his pre-human existence

John 6:38-for I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but the will of him who sent me.

John 8:23 - but he continued, you are from below, I am from above. You are from this world, I am not from this world.

John 17:5 - Father glorify me in your presence with the glory I had alongside you before the world was created.

In fact, just read through any of the gospel accounts, the references to Jesus pre-human existence are just too many to dispute.

deSika: The person who says frosbel is not a false prophet is only deceiving himself. There is a thin line between frosbel and atheism

Mr anony:
Nah, frosbel isn't an atheist he's only a heretic

Mr anony:
Nah, frosbel isn't an atheist he's only a heretic

shdemidemi:

I second this opinion

frosbel:

what is the condition for salvation ? Certainly not what some of you here falsely claim !


"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 9:10

"Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned." - Matthew 16:16

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved --you and your household

These are ALL glaring bible verses that lay down quite nicely the condition for salvation and eternal life, yet false teachers such as yourself twist this to mean we must believe that Jesus preexisted or is GOD to be saved.

Read your bible bro and stop propagating tradtion.

shdemidemi:

Are we talking about salvation here, are you ok bro?

frosbel:

By implication yes, because you seconded an opinion which referred to me as a heretick , for calling Jesus the Son of GOD and not GOD , for refusing to believe that he pre-existed , but to stick to the scriptures which says he was Born through a virgin.

shdemidemi:

You are gradually deviating from the topic, you will end up arguing trinity on this thread. The issue here is, the bible gives more than enough evidence to show Christ existed even before He was made flesh.

frosbel:

okay , forgive me,

Let's carry on.

If Jesus pre-existed before birth , how come he was totally oblivious to this surroundings as a baby, how come he did not display any supernatural powers until he was empowered by GOD through his spirit ?

We are talking here of GOD Almighty residing in the womb of a WOMAN , and yet he was not all wise, all knowing , all seeing etc. Stop joking bro.

frosbel:

who cares about your opinion , lol.

Michael Servetus was also called a heretick and killed by Calvin ( so called Christian ), I would rather stand with the minority and the word of GOD than belong to the crowd who adhere to orthodox deception.

Mr anony:
Lol, of course you stand by your version of "the word of God" that denies God completely

shdemidemi:

I respect your concern and your question but your worries can not in any way demean what the scripture says about His pre-existence. I personally believe Christ placed the age of accountability for every child.