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Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? - Religion - Nairaland

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Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 9:56am On Oct 21, 2012
Before you continue, you can read the third chapter of genesis.

The first time the serpent is mentioned, he is described as the most mischeivous of animals. It is for this reason he is able to tempt eve. He is even able to talk to her. I still wonder how an animal was able to do all these. What was he even gaining by tempting her?

But lets assume it was the devil that possessed the snake although that was never mentioned and we have already been given a great impression that it was actually the snake doing all those things.

If it was the devil that possessed the snake, how come the snake was directly punished and no reference was made to the devil? That seems very silly right? Unless we again assume God was punishing the snake for allowing the devil use him. So now the snake has the power to resist the devil? And that is very unlikely by the way.

Yet again lets make another assumption which could be the only remaining explaination: that the snake is the devil itself.
In other books of the bible the snake is refered to as the devil. But if the snake is the devil how come moses who even wrote the book of genesis used the snake as a symbol of healing when the isrealites were dying? How come the devil is helping us kill rodents?
It all seems quite silly, all the possibilies I mentioned, so does the story itself.

But I would appreciate it if you could give your own explantion of the events of the third chapter of genesis, unless you have none ofcourse.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nigermaurice(m): 10:26am On Dec 01, 2012
In the book of Revelation it is said that the "serpent of old" and "the dragon" are the deceiver and the devil. Revelation 20:2

In urmind, I have read your past posts and yes I know what it's like to be an atheist, though I am not one, and yes I believe God can visit you but he isn't a force but a person and may choose to do so or not. I have prayed for you (No condescending sentiment) and also ask you to consider how limited the scope of human knowledge is before you entirely dismiss the possibility of an almighty ever existing being. I wish you peace.

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Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 10:30am On Dec 01, 2012
Hmm, thought this thread was dead and gone.
Thanks for praying though, I hope u prayed for all the other atheists?

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Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by plaetton: 4:32pm On Dec 01, 2012
inurmind: Before you continue, you can read the third chapter of genesis.

The first time the serpent is mentioned, he is described as the most mischeivous of animals. It is for this reason he is able to tempt eve. He is even able to talk to her. I still wonder how an animal was able to do all these. What was he even gaining by tempting her?

But lets assume it was the devil that possessed the snake although that was never mentioned and we have already been given a great impression that it was actually the snake doing all those things.

If it was the devil that possessed the snake, how come the snake was directly punished and no reference was made to the devil? That seems very silly right? Unless we again assume God was punishing the snake for allowing the devil use him. So now the snake has the power to resist the devil? And that is very unlikely by the way.

Yet again lets make another assumption which could be the only remaining explaination: that the snake is the devil itself.
In other books of the bible the snake is refered to as the devil. But if the snake is the devil how come moses who even wrote the book of genesis used the snake as a symbol of healing when the isrealites were dying? How come the devil is helping us kill rodents?
It all seems quite silly, all the possibilies I mentioned, so does the story itself.

But I would appreciate it if you could give your own explantion of the events of the third chapter of genesis, unless you have none ofcourse.

The biblical serpent was one of the Elohim that had sympathy for mankind, and had been mankind's benefactor. It is Obvious from the bible that there was rivalry amongst the Elohim about the future of mankind.Most wars and conflicts that we see in the bible were indirect a results of these rivalries amongst the Elohim.
It is not surprising that the serpent is the most worshipped creature in all cultures.
The serpent is the symbol of wisdom,creation, eternity and healing and regeneration.
Even Jesus enjoined his followers to be wise like serpents.

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Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 5:25pm On Dec 01, 2012
i think this has been discussed before- nairaland seems to be cyclical.

the serpent is a higher species than snake.

serpent got demoted to snake after deceiving mankind in the garden of eden.

doesnt mean there were no snakes in eden before the serpent appeared there- just that the serpent thereafter functioned at the level of a snake [lower and less honourable, like a reverse evolution so to speak].

therefore, the snake became the symbol for the serpent, hence the use in healing imagery. This is a throwback to the original function of the serpent, which involved healing in some way. The tree of life was also for healing.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 5:26pm On Dec 01, 2012
if you dont understand, nothing wrong with that.

no need to throw insults, just move on.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 5:27pm On Dec 01, 2012
plaetton:

The biblical serpent was one of the Elohim that had sympathy for mankind, and had been mankind's benefactor. It is Obvious from the bible that there was rivalry amongst the Elohim about the future of mankind.Most wars and conflicts that we see in the bible were indirect a results of these rivalries amongst the Elohim.
It is not surprising that the serpent is the most worshipped creature in all cultures.
The serpent is the symbol of wisdom,creation, eternity and healing and regeneration.
Even Jesus enjoined his followers to be wise like serpents.

You're brilliantly well-informed, and everything you've written is 100% spot on. Kudos.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 5:28pm On Dec 01, 2012
lmao, all these coders.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 5:34pm On Dec 01, 2012
African religions and philosophical concepts have long held the snake in the highest regard. The snake symbolizes knowledge and empowerment. The ancient Sumerians, whose Gilgamesh texts were plagiarised by Genesis writers, represented the snake as ENKI, creator of mankind through genetic splicing. ENLIL is 'Yahweh', his brother, who was angry that ENKI wanted humans to have real knowledge and powers that would make them no longer slaves of ENLIL (Yahweh). Make them truly independent (to be ''as the gods''). African religions, from the days of Egypt till date are ENKIAN religions. ENLILEAN religions are christianity, islam, judaism. They profess piety, but are historically brutal and bloodthirsty in their evangelization drives, and promise hellfire for non-converts to their ENLILIAN faiths.

The bible is little more than an ENLILIAN DOCUMENT, written by Enlil's followers, and heavily biased towards ENLIL, painting ENKI as ''satan the devil'', when in fact ENKI is the TRUE FRIEND OF MANKIND. Meanwhile in the bible, 99.9% of death is caused by ENLIL, most of them genocides by ENLIL's followers of those who professed to ENKIAN faiths.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 6:12pm On Dec 01, 2012
The snake was an individual.
People due to misinterpretation and translation failures tongue
literally think it was a snake.

Since prehistoric times many cultures used the snake as a symbol
of evil, using it's predator nature to signify the nature
of some ppl who ease their way to their prey (others) before they attack.

I personally don't believe in the devil. I do believe in
choices and that we get our karma based on what we decide to do
to each other and ourselves. The snake's misdeed, and the "first couple"'s
failures to heed to God's word is the reason for their "beatings" and banishment
from his grace.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 6:44pm On Dec 01, 2012
*Kails*:
The snake was an individual.
People due to misinterpretation and translation failures tongue
literally think it was a snake.

Since prehistoric times many cultures used the snake as a symbol
of evil

You're wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about. It was latter-day Judaeo christian/islamic faiths ALONE that came to regard the snake as ''evil''. And those faiths are relative newcomers to religion. The vast majority of pre-christian, pre-islamic belief systems regarded the snake as a symbol of wisdom, justice and empowerment.

Ancient Benin Royal House. Note snake on the roof.
[img]http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/citi/images/standard/Exhib/EX_000001/96460_520265.jpg[/img]

Pharaoh Tutunkhamun. Note snake on crown.


Statue of Pharaoh Taharka, Nubian conqueror of Egypt. Note snake on crown.
[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRndVsvtku_EylcJIgkiJzHm3YfyQKws8sUhXDj1UwKDZsZbIi-svZrBpXf[/img]

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Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 7:50pm On Dec 01, 2012
and ancient benin didnt have old testament based symbolism no doubt.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by plaetton: 6:35am On Dec 02, 2012
*Kails*:
The snake was an individual.
People due to misinterpretation and translation failures tongue
literally think it was a snake.

Since prehistoric times many cultures used the snake as a symbol
of evil, using it's predator nature to signify the nature
of some ppl who ease their way to their prey (others) before they attack.

I personally don't believe in the devil. I do believe in
choices and that we get our karma based on what we decide to do
to each other and ourselves. The snake's misdeed, and the "first couple"'s
failures to heed to God's word is the reason for their "beatings" and banishment
from his grace.

False. Only recent christianity(which is not even an original religion) had demonised the snake. The snake is the most revered creature in all cultures from antiquity.
As for being a predator, the snake can hardly qualify as a cunning and terrible predator. The only thing a snake has as it weapon is its poisonous venom, which , ironically, is also beneficial in healing many ailments.
So if one wanted to symbolise evil and cunning, the snake would hardly qualify.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by plaetton: 7:01am On Dec 02, 2012
tpia1: i think this has been discussed before- nairaland seems to be cyclical.

the serpent is a higher species than snake.


According to which food chain?

tpia1:

serpent got demoted to snake after deceiving mankind in the garden of eden.


Amazing! And where in your bible did you get this from?
So one animal can be demoted to another?. Is this some kind reverse evolution?
So evolution is just a theory , but reverse evolution is a biblical fact? Na wa.

tpia1:
doesnt mean there were no snakes in eden before the serpent appeared there- just that the serpent thereafter functioned at the level of a snake [lower and less honourable, like a reverse evolution so to speak].

Creationists , where are you when I need you?

Let me get this straight, so god created everything with a snap of his divine fingers, then reverse evolution commenced on some naughty and less honourable species?
It all makes perfect sense now. shocked

tpia1:
therefore, the snake became the symbol for the serpent, hence the use in healing imagery. .


So the serpent did the crime and the snake did the time?
shocked
rolling on the floor.

tpia1: This is a throwback to the original function of the serpent, which involved healing in some way. .



Huh? shocked
Original function? So the serpent's original function was healing?
Healing what? malaria, typhoid?
I thought there was no sickness in garden of eden before the fall of man? How could there have been sickness in god's perfect creation?
Are you getting the garden of eden story mixed up with some other children's story?


tpia1: . The tree of life was also for healing.


The tree of life was in the garden of eden, right?.
Again, I ask, healing who and healing what ailment?

Which bible version, or should I ask , which part of your brain did all these ridiculous ideas come from?

Man, the lies we tell just to defend ridiculous beliefs!.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 7:08am On Dec 02, 2012
^^^^
The Refurbished Testaments... lol
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by plaetton: 7:13am On Dec 02, 2012
musKeeto: ^^^^
The Refurbished Testaments... lol

Refurbished is the word.
These guys are just too hilarious.
I just can't believe some of the very windy ,convoluted and comical logic I read on this religilous forum, all for free.
Thank you Nairaland religilous forum.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 7:20am On Dec 02, 2012
tpia1: i think this has been discussed before- nairaland seems to be cyclical.

the serpent is a higher species than snake.

serpent got demoted to snake after deceiving mankind in the garden of eden.

doesnt mean there were no snakes in eden before the serpent appeared there- just that the serpent thereafter functioned at the level of a snake [lower and less honourable, like a reverse evolution so to speak].

therefore, the snake became the symbol for the serpent, hence the use in healing imagery. This is a throwback to the original function of the serpent, which involved healing in some way. The tree of life was also for healing.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 7:21am On Dec 02, 2012
^^^@plaetton, LWTMB here! Funny questions brah! To attempt your last question, man never had to opportunity to eat from the tree of life, he was expelled from the garden of Eden after eating from the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

Genesis 3:22-23 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by plaetton: 7:30am On Dec 02, 2012
seriallink: ^^^@plaetton, LWTMB here! Funny questions brah! To attempt your last question, man never had to opportunity to eat from the tree of life, he was expelled from the garden of Eden after eating from the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

Genesis 3:22-23 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

I dont get you.
Tpia wrote that the tree of life was for healing.
So I asked,
Healing whom and healing what?, since no illness or disharmony was envisaged by the omni omni creator before the fall of man.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 7:32am On Dec 02, 2012
seriallink: ^^^@plaetton, LWTMB here! Funny questions brah! To attempt your last question, man never had to opportunity to eat from the tree of life, he was expelled from the garden of Eden after eating from the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

Genesis 3:22-23 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, [b]and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.[/b]
Then that means man wasn't supposed to live for ever in the first place... so where the hell did the teaching that this

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
was referring to spiritual not physical death come from?
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 8:31am On Dec 02, 2012
musKeeto:
Then that means man wasn't supposed to live for ever in the first place... so where the hell did the teaching that this

was referring to spiritual not physical death come from?

Man wasn't created to live forever but to live old enough before dying (Kind of like the age Methuselah). The death in Genesis 2:17 is spiritual or second death! Though there are also cases where physical death could be used as punishment for sin, just like in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 13:10)

However, our days reduced when the sons of God - later fallen angels (Dunno may ETs - according to some folks) came to earth and started cross breeding with humans. That was when God said His spirit shall not always strive with humans because they are flesh; so, their days shall be 120yrs:

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

So, it's very clear that the 'DEATH' referred to in Genesis 2:17 is 'second death' or 'spiritual death' and not this physical death we are facing now. Because of Adam's sin there MUST be judgement before condemnation! If Adam hadn't sin, there wouldn't be need for any judgement after resurrection! We would have all been qualified for gift of eternal life!
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 8:57am On Dec 02, 2012
^^^
So u are saying adam was meant to die anyway before?
Which verse in the bible did u get that one from?
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 9:48am On Dec 02, 2012
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 9:50am On Dec 02, 2012
musKeeto:


Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 9:52am On Dec 02, 2012
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 9:52am On Dec 02, 2012
plaetton:

I dont get you.
Tpia wrote that the tree of life was for healing.
So I asked,
Healing whom and healing what?, since no illness or disharmony was envisaged by the omni omni creator before the fall of man.

can you support your claim from the bible.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Nobody: 10:30am On Dec 02, 2012
inurmind: ^^^
So u are saying adam was meant to die anyway before?
Which verse in the bible did u get that one from?


This is what will happen when the new earth is established (A paradise - just the way the garden of Eden was before Adam and Eve were kicked out).

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isaiah 65 :17 [b]For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.[/b]

The underlined, even though it is a future prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled still give us an idea of what man was supposed to enjoy if he hadn't sinned. So, this clearly shows that if the first man hadn't sinned, there would still be physical death before resurrection to eternal life (In our new form or bodies - Philippians 3:21 and not flesh).
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by plaetton: 2:36pm On Dec 02, 2012
tpia1:

can you support your claim from the bible.

And what claim is that?
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by Image123(m): 11:02pm On Dec 02, 2012
Before you continue, you can read the third chapter of genesis.

The first time the serpent is mentioned, he is described as the most mischeivous of animals. It is for this reason he is able to tempt eve. He is even able to talk to her. I still wonder how an animal was able to do all these. What was he even gaining by tempting her?

But lets assume it was the devil that possessed the snake although that was never mentioned and we have already been given a great impression that it was actually the snake doing all those things.

If it was the devil that possessed the snake, how come the snake was directly punished and no reference was made to the devil? That seems very silly right? Unless we again assume God was punishing the snake for allowing the devil use him. So now the snake has the power to resist the devil? And that is very unlikely by the way.

Yet again lets make another assumption which could be the only remaining explaination: that the snake is the devil itself.
In other books of the bible the snake is refered to as the devil. But if the snake is the devil how come moses who even wrote the book of genesis used the snake as a symbol of healing when the isrealites were dying? How come the devil is helping us kill rodents?
It all seems quite silly, all the possibilies I mentioned, so does the story itself.

But I would appreciate it if you could give your own explantion of the events of the third chapter of genesis, unless you have none ofcourse.

The bolded is the answer to your question even though i'm convinced that you and your ilk are not looking for any answer. It can be inferred, deduced, gathered and reasoned from other scripture.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

the serpent/snake was a cunning animal.
GW Gen 3:1 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals the LORD God had made. He asked the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must never eat the fruit of any tree in the garden'?"

Animals have varying levels of intelligence incase you do not know. The snake was more clever/cunning/wiser/crafty/subtle. With much power comes great responsibility. the serpent allowed Satan to use it, just like you usually allow satan to use you on NL and at home.
In those days, Adam could communicate with the animals, this is not strange as even today, some people communicate with animals especially through training. Any more questions?
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by plaetton: 1:51am On Dec 03, 2012
Image123:

The bolded is the answer to your question even though i'm convinced that you and your ilk are not looking for any answer. It can be inferred, deduced, gathered and reasoned from other scripture.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

the serpent/snake was a cunning animal.
GW Gen 3:1 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals the LORD God had made. He asked the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must never eat the fruit of any tree in the garden'?"

Animals have varying levels of intelligence incase you do not know. The snake was more clever/cunning/wiser/crafty/subtle. With much power comes great responsibility. the serpent allowed Satan to use it, just like you usually allow satan to use you on NL and at home.
In those days, Adam could communicate with the animals, this is not strange as even today, some people communicate with animals especially through training. Any more questions?

Liar liar. There is always a scripture to support every lie.
Where in genesis does it say that the devil possessed the snake, where was the omnipresent and omnipotent god when this possession took place?.

And your reference to Rev: 20.2, I thought the book of revelations was about events that are yet to come,future events. But yet you dishonestly presented it as if the event had taken place before Adam's fall from grace, just to justify your devil-possessed-the-snake fantasy.

Going by Rev: 12:9 dragon=serpent=devil=satan, right? So who possessed who, and where does the snake come into this equation?

Now back to this: Gen 3:1 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals the LORD God had made.

Now, if the snake was more clever than all the wild animals, should that also not be true today? Is there any biological evidence to show that the snake is more intelligent, or , clever than all wild animals?
Do you see how ridiculous and silly you can render yourself by believing and blindly regurgitating stone-age fables?

So the devil could not find any monkeys or apes, or rabbits or wily foxes, or dolphins , or whales, but settled for a pea-brained snake to charm Eve, and you say it was because the snake was the most mentally advanced creature in your garden of Eden?
Na wa.

And Adam could communicate with animals? Where did you get this from?

You are soooooo used to selling your fables to children and zombies, that you so often forget yourself that you are on a public forum with adults.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by tpia1: 2:15am On Dec 03, 2012
I just told you the serpent is different from snake, but somehow your cognition is unable to grasp any single exegesis here.
Re: Clarification On The Serpent In The Garden Of Eden? by plaetton: 2:43am On Dec 03, 2012
tpia1: I just told you the serpent is different from snake, but somehow your cognition is unable to grasp any single exegesis here.

Cognition, exegesis. Big grammar indeed.
Good practice on your TOEFL.

Ok. You say the serpent reverse-evolve into the snake(in just 6000yrs?), and Image123 says the devil=the serpent possessed the snake and made him do naughty stuff,because the snake was the smartest of all the wild animals.

And you are both ardent readers of the bible, the inerrant word of Yahweh.
So which of you is right or closer to the true truth?

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