Pickthall 10:94

''And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.

Here Allah/Gabriel told Muhammed to athenticate the revelations he received from the Christians and the Bible.

Pickthall 16:43:

And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the Remembrance if ye know not.!

Here again, Allah/Gabriel said if Muhammad was not clear of any issue he should consult the Christians.

The summary of it is that it is the Bible that determines the correctness or otherwise of the Quran.

Why did Muhammad not take to Allah/Gabriel's advice on this because he had reason to make consultation with the Christians as the revelations he received contradicted the Bible especially the Sonship of Jesus among others?

If his reason for not making enquiry as required of him is the same with what today's muslims say about the Bible, was he wiser than Allah/Gabriel that required him to do so?

Muhammad's failure to ask appropriate questions on MARRIAGE, SONSHIP, REVENGE, PEACE, DIFFERENT DESCPTION OF HEAVEN etc will go a long way in determining where the whole muslim world will spend their eternity.

Despite what the muslims say, the Bible remains a reference Book for the muslims.

Hmm let me see... The bible is a revised version of the ancient mythologies of indian, egyptian, and european gods; while the quran is a hideously revised version of others gods too.
So all me can say is they are both inferior to the mythologies they copied from

@inurmind:

by inurmind: 4:00pm
Hmm let me see... The bible is a revised version of the ancient mythologies of indian, egyptian, and european gods; while the quran is a hideously revised version of others gods too.
So all me can say is they are both inferior to the mythologies they copied fromcheesy

maybe you are not so bright the reason you chose your moniker, unless you can provide irrefutable evidence to the bold? which hideously original did the Quran is a revision of, and what are the names of these other gods? i dont think they make them more stu.pid in nigeria these days; they open their mouth and what comes out is usel.ess garbage that even the best of waste energy system things its a waste of effort to collect. those who accuse must provide evidence.

@Nextpart:

by nextpart(m): 3:04pm
Pickthall 10:94

''And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.

Here Allah/Gabriel told Muhammed to athenticate the revelations he received from the Christians and the Bible.

authentication he must do as instructed considering that Allah says "Verily [Muhammad [sa]] the Truth from they Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.". Allah says Muhammad [sa] they truth and must not be one of those who wavers, to mean that there must be some people who had the truth and they waver before you, or there are some who are alive with you now who waver from the truth or is there another explanation of "so do not thou of the waverers"?

If you do not have truth in the first place you will not be a waverer, but just a simple ignorant person without knowledge. a waverer must have truth before he wavers to become a hypocrite, hiding the truth from himself, alone and other people.

What i gathered in the above verse therefore that Muhammad [sa] with the truth in your hand, definitely, you can question the people who are reading presently "scriptures" that was revealed at some point in time before you are given the "Truth" that you have, presently. Why ask or question this people with early revelation now that you have the truth? Maybe it is a means of Mercy to gently make them enter The Truth you have Muhammad [sa], because should be able to regain good common senses if they are sincere seekers of Truth. Here is The Truth and they should now get away from the falsehood they are dogged in, calling it "revelations", knowingly ignoring the corruptions that has entered them. Is there any other explanation especially that he must question/ask them when he has The Truth in complete purity, but gently nudge them without letting them feel shameful or humiliated so that those who are God conscious will accept guidance in your hands?

Definitely, we see that the "scriptures" saying that Jesus killed in crucifixion on the cross must be untrue if Muhammad's Truth says "he was not killed and was not crucified. . . .".

Pickthall 16:43:

And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the Remembrance if ye know not.!

Here again, Allah/Gabriel said if Muhammad was not clear of any issue he should consult the Christians.

Let me help you and throw in "the Jews" because they are people who have received scripture, Torah of Moses, Sabur of David before the Injil of Jesus [as] to each of them]. Look at the bold, Each of them was a "MAN", and he was "INSPIRED". None of them was but a man receiving inspiration to be delivered. Said inspiration was not about him which gospel about Jesus in the "according to Mark, Matthew, John and Luke" indicate, instead of Gospel of Jesus "A Revelation of God Almighty on Jesus to deliver to man in his community" so that it can be spread forward, until The Last Revelation of God Almighty upon The Another Comforter {Muhammad bin Abdallah [sa]] The Quran that will be sufficient for man till the Day of Assembly.

The summary of it is that it is the Bible that determines the correctness or otherwise of the Quran.

not exactly because the Quran is the Truth with thee, remember? When Muhammad [sa] asked/questioned the people in Madina, many of them entered Islam and Muhammad [sa] didnt enter their religions. Thats common sense, if you know since Muhammad [sa] died as a Muslim and many former Jews and Christians entered Islam under Muhammad and also died as muslims. Some of the were former Jewish School, Abdullah AbdulsSalaam [ra] and many many more men and women who use to be people of the "Scriptures".

Why did Muhammad not take to Allah/Gabriel's advice on this because he had reason to make consultation with the Christians as the revelations he received contradicted the Bible especially the Sonship of Jesus among others?

Maybe my dialogue here is with a personality that is not fully formed, yet. Maybe, I said because there is no place in what you have put forward that suggest that Muhammad [sa] should do more than ask/question them since what he is hold is "The Truth". What will be better than the 'The Truth'? People should come to "The Truth" by following the one who has in his hand and his actions are based on the "The Truth".

If his reason for not making enquiry as required of him is the same with what today's muslims say about the Bible, was he wiser than Allah/Gabriel that required him to do so?

you seem to be at a lost because the person who is holding the "The Truth" is the person occupying the position of what "The Truth" offers. We can see that you are not paying attention to what you write if you know the difference between asking when you dont have the truth and asking when you have "The Truth". The latter is to awaken the consciousness or conscience of the persons you are asking because wen they hear you they should be able to recognize the truth that you have and if they are sincere acknowledge it and sign up along your side.


[quoteMuhammad's failure to ask appropriate questions on MARRIAGE, SONSHIP, REVENGE, PEACE, DIFFERENT DESCPTION OF HEAVEN etc will go a long way in determining where the whole muslim world will spend their eternity.[/quote]as a christian, can you personally tell me anything about marriage from any of the 4 Gospels when Jesus they are writing about was never married? do you consider a theorist better or even equal to the one who lived it in reality?

Can you in your entire life explain sonship in a clear manner that somebody will not have a doubt that God could really father a man? Let me leave you without going to revenge, peace because i will have to go hard on you with evidence that Jesus of the Bibles was revengeful and brought no peace, but swords and wars [at least thats what the Bibles recorded for him]. Different heavens? I thought heaven is just one where the christian will reside singing, behaving like angels [do the angels sing all the time and do nothing else?]. I am assuming from your statement that hell i somewhere else now; maybe on this earth? you may locate it for us or is it between the earth and heaven where you will have to pass when you are raptured? or under the earth that you as a christian is standing on?

Despite what the muslims say, the Bible remains a reference Book for the muslims.

no it doesnt because Muslims under Muhammad [sa] has "THE TRUTH". we shall let you christians and jews dispute with each other while you have the same book; The bible containing OT and NT, while I as a muslim believe in Torah revealed to Moses, Sabur revealed to David and Injil revealed to Jesus son of Mary.

@Nextpart:

by nextpart(m): 3:04pm
Pickthall 10:94

''And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.

Here Allah/Gabriel told Muhammed to athenticate the revelations he received from the Christians and the Bible.

authentication he must do as instructed considering that Allah says "Verily [Muhammad [sa]] the Truth from they Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.". Allah says Muhammad [sa] they truth and must not be one of those who wavers, to mean that there must be some people who had the truth and they waver before you, or there are some who are alive with you now who waver from the truth or is there another explanation of "so do not thou of the waverers"?

If you do not have truth in the first place you will not be a waverer, but just a simple ignorant person without knowledge. a waverer must have truth before he wavers to become a hypocrite, hiding the truth from himself, alone and other people.

What i gathered in the above verse therefore that Muhammad [sa] with the truth in your hand, definitely, you can question the people who are reading presently "scriptures" that was revealed at some point in time before you are given the "Truth" that you have, presently. Why ask or question this people with early revelation now that you have the truth? Maybe it is a means of Mercy to gently make them enter The Truth you have Muhammad [sa], because should be able to regain good common senses if they are sincere seekers of Truth. Here is The Truth and they should now get away from the falsehood they are dogged in, calling it "revelations", knowingly ignoring the corruptions that has entered them. Is there any other explanation especially that he must question/ask them when he has The Truth in complete purity, but gently nudge them without letting them feel shameful or humiliated so that those who are God conscious will accept guidance in your hands?

Definitely, we see that the "scriptures" saying that Jesus killed in crucifixion on the cross must be untrue if Muhammad's Truth says "he was not killed and was not crucified. . . .".

Pickthall 16:43:

And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the Remembrance if ye know not.!

Here again, Allah/Gabriel said if Muhammad was not clear of any issue he should consult the Christians.

Let me help you and throw in "the Jews" because they are people who have received scripture, Torah of Moses, Sabur of David before the Injil of Jesus [as] to each of them]. Look at the bold, Each of them was a "MAN", and he was "INSPIRED". None of them was but a man receiving inspiration to be delivered. Said inspiration was not about him which gospel about Jesus in the "according to Mark, Matthew, John and Luke" indicate, instead of Gospel of Jesus "A Revelation of God Almighty on Jesus to deliver to man in his community" so that it can be spread forward, until The Last Revelation of God Almighty upon The Another Comforter {Muhammad bin Abdallah [sa]] The Quran that will be sufficient for man till the Day of Assembly.

The summary of it is that it is the Bible that determines the correctness or otherwise of the Quran.

not exactly because the Quran is the Truth with thee, remember? When Muhammad [sa] asked/questioned the people in Madina, many of them entered Islam and Muhammad [sa] didnt enter their religions. Thats common sense, if you know since Muhammad [sa] died as a Muslim and many former Jews and Christians entered Islam under Muhammad and also died as muslims. Some of the were former Jewish School, Abdullah AbdulsSalaam [ra] and many many more men and women who use to be people of the "Scriptures".

Why did Muhammad not take to Allah/Gabriel's advice on this because he had reason to make consultation with the Christians as the revelations he received contradicted the Bible especially the Sonship of Jesus among others?

Maybe my dialogue here is with a personality that is not fully formed, yet. Maybe, I said because there is no place in what you have put forward that suggest that Muhammad [sa] should do more than ask/question them since what he is hold is "The Truth". What will be better than the 'The Truth'? People should come to "The Truth" by following the one who has in his hand and his actions are based on the "The Truth".

If his reason for not making enquiry as required of him is the same with what today's muslims say about the Bible, was he wiser than Allah/Gabriel that required him to do so?

you seem to be at a lost because the person who is holding the "The Truth" is the person occupying the position of what "The Truth" offers. We can see that you are not paying attention to what you write if you know the difference between asking when you dont have the truth and asking when you have "The Truth". The latter is to awaken the consciousness or conscience of the persons you are asking because wen they hear you they should be able to recognize the truth that you have and if they are sincere acknowledge it and sign up along your side.


[quoteMuhammad's failure to ask appropriate questions on MARRIAGE, SONSHIP, REVENGE, PEACE, DIFFERENT DESCPTION OF HEAVEN etc will go a long way in determining where the whole muslim world will spend their eternity.[/quote]as a christian, can you personally tell me anything about marriage from any of the 4 Gospels when Jesus they are writing about was never married? do you consider a theorist better or even equal to the one who lived it in reality?

Can you in your entire life explain sonship in a clear manner that somebody will not have a doubt that God could really father a man? Let me leave you without going to revenge, peace because i will have to go hard on you with evidence that Jesus of the Bibles was revengeful and brought no peace, but swords and wars [at least thats what the Bibles recorded for him]. Different heavens? I thought heaven is just one where the christian will reside singing, behaving like angels [do the angels sing all the time and do nothing else?]. I am assuming from your statement that hell i somewhere else now; maybe on this earth? you may locate it for us or is it between the earth and heaven where you will have to pass when you are raptured? or under the earth that you as a christian is standing on?

Despite what the muslims say, the Bible remains a reference Book for the muslims.

no it doesnt because Muslims under Muhammad [sa] has "THE TRUTH". we shall let you christians and jews dispute with each other while you have the same book; The bible containing OT and NT, while I as a muslim believe in Torah revealed to Moses, Sabur revealed to David and Injil revealed to Jesus son of Mary.

Sweetnecta

You always surprise me and possibly everyone that reads your posts. You just answer as if it is a must for you to answer. There are many knowledgeable muslims I read their posts on nairaland, intelligent posts. I believe they do their homework before they say anything. Don't you discover you are left alone by others? Possibly they don't want to identify with your way of reasoning.


Anyway the summary of your weak defence is that Muhammad needed not to ask any question because he held the truth. May I ask you, who gave him the truth? If it was Allah, why did He still ask him to confirm the truth? Suppose Gabriel gave a wrong message to him as only God is infallible. Was Satan not once an angel but later departed?

Since Mohammed knew that the revelations he received was contrary to what had been in the Scriptures before him and he was given the opportunity to ask questions, why did he not ask?

Ordinarily a man is expected to be curious especially when he hears conflicting messages and moreso given opportunity to confirm.

I am expecting your irrelevant response as usual.

@Truthman2012:

by truthman2012: 9:22pm
Sweetnecta

You always surprise me and possibly everyone that reads your posts. You just answer as if it is a must for you to answer. There are many knowledgeable muslims I read their posts on nairaland, intelligent posts. I believe they do their homework before they say anything. Don't you discover you are left alone by others? Possibly they don't want to identify with your way of reasoning.

i always surprise you you said and farthest down, you are expecting my irrelevant post as usual. arent you contradicting yourself here? either you are surprise as usual or expecting which is not a surprise.

anyways. no one on nairaland is my islam and i am not the islam of anyone. may Allah accept our efforts in Islam. they say a person who make effort in Islam will have 1 reward, even if he is wrong unknowingly. if he is right, his rewards is double. I am like Abu Bakr [ra] in some ways, striving always. And in some ways, like Ali [ra], striving still. With all the intelligent posts of my brothers and sisters you have read, you have not become muslim and you have not toned f=down your rhetoric against Islam. what have you gained from these intelligent posts or is your heart so hateful of the truth you refuse to acknowledge? you need to check yourself before you are checkmated.

Anyway the summary of your weak defence is that Muhammad needed not to ask any question because he held the truth.

Thats not what i said and you do not know how to summarize anything is your problem. What i said is that when he asks knowing that he has the truth, if those people he asked were sincere, they should be entering Islam. and many did and i gave you a name among many, many. you should have researched before started a thread.

May I ask you, who gave him the truth?

You want to learn. Good. Allah is the answer.

If it was Allah, why did He still ask him to confirm the truth?

some truth are still left in the scriptures and this asking on one occasion may awaken the minds that have been deceived because those who are sincere may just say "how did this man Muhammad [sa] know this truth". Those of them who heard him with clear heart became muslims. We all agree that God is 1, unless you a pagan, trinitarian, atheist.

Suppose Gabriel gave a wrong message to him as only God is infallible.

you think the revelation is from Gabriel? if you shall become a muslim, after reading the truth, i will give you verses that shows that The Revelation of Quran is from Allah, all of it and Gabriel was a messenger carrier and he was unable to even come on earth unless commanded. You need to learn, plenty if you wanna be relevant on the thread you open to criticize Islam.

Was Satan not once an angel but later departed?

Satan was never an angel but a jinn [alujannu]. I will quote you verses in the Quran to support my argument, InshaAllah. But i am not going to waste my precious time to dialogue with you if nothing will come out of it.

Since Mohammed knew that the revelations he received was contrary to what had been in the Scriptures before him and he was given the opportunity to ask questions, why did he not ask?

Is "The Truth" not contrary to "the corrupted"? Which one is "The Truth" and which one is "the revelations before thee" between the Quran and the Scriptures? Make sure you answer according to the verse of the Quran which you quoted but may not have bothered to read and definitely failed to analyze.

Ordinarily a man is expected to be curious especially when he hears conflicting messages and moreso given opportunity to confirm.

how is it that the one who is given "The Truth" be curious about what is not the truth? he was told to as if he was in any doubt that he hold the Truth in his hand. if he didnt ask, it shows that he does not doubt. if he asked it shows that he followed suggestion so that his heart may not be in doubt, if it were before. Either way Muhammad [sa] is the winner.

I am expecting you irrelevant response as usual.

well, to you it is irrelevant. to others, and I, may we find benefit in it. Amin. I pray that Allah fill up my heart with HOPE from Him. I pray that Allah give your heart guidance so that you do not take 3 to be 1, or deceive others that 1 is 3. Amin.

The summary of your post is 'Mohammed knew the truth better than Allah who told him to ask'.

The summary of your post is 'Mohammed knew the truth better than Allah who told him to ask, so he needed not to ask'

Now I ask you: if the Bible is corrupted according to you muslims, why did Allah tell Mohammed to consult it? You muslims are wiser than you Allah?

where exactly does the verse say "bible"?

truthman2012:
Now I ask you: if the Bible is corrupted according to you muslims, why did Allah tell Mohammed to consult it? You muslims are wiser than you Allah?

but that's the thing: Allah NEVER tell His prophet to consult the "bible"

Then tell the world which Scriptures was revealed before Quran? Or which inspired revelation there was before Quran?

@Truthman2012 and his christian folks:

I wish when muslims make statements about your religion, wanting you give logical truth, you guys will at least mount a reasonable effort, as i have attempted and my brothers and sisters whose posts your find full of knowledge have done. knowledge is no benefit unless you use it. so my advise is that you act upon the knowledge you got from the muslims by implementing it in your spiritual life instead of blindly stuck in dogma that you have accepted because that what momma and papa are in and as an adult you refuse to venture out, even parents can be wrong. save yourself and them from hell whose fuel are stone and "man".

since you find it hard to read my post, here is an advise: ask questions and let my educated brothers and sisters answer and you can dialogue along in coming to a reasonable answer. they may not win you offer because of your faith or fate. but when you start out making allegations against God, His Religion, His Messenger [sa], this single religion, this messenger I love more than life itself, expect me to struggle against you by challenging your thoughts. My brothers and sisters may be milder than me, keeping in their corners for not wanting to offend you. i am not that wise and my wisdom will not prevent me to respond to you clearing up your ignorance. i wonder what you will do if your associate made derogated allegation of filth against the one you love most? will you laugh it of because i expect a person who has moral and reasonable sense of justice to say a word or two to defend the honor of who they love. Muhammad [sa] did when you and jews lied against Jesus and his mother.

Muhammad [sa] is the one who me know that Jesus was not a pagan claiming deity for himself since instinctively i know God is 1 without partner. All the love that I have for Jesus [as] came for what Muhammad [sa] said about him, honoring him, etc. If i take your bibles as the litmus for the position of Jesus [as] he will be categorized as i have done of sango.



@Truthman2012:

by truthman2012: 10:31pm On Oct 21
The summary of your post is 'Mohammed knew the truth better than Allah who told him to ask'.

(Quote) (Report) (Like)
Re: Bible Is Superior To Quran by truthman2012: 10:35pm On Oct 21
The summary of your post is 'Mohammed knew the truth better than Allah who told him to ask, so he needed not to ask'

Now I ask you: if the Bible is corrupted according to you muslims, why did Allah tell Mohammed to consult it? You muslims are wiser than you Allah?

This is your own conclusion of my post. it is out there to sound mind what my post says. If I am told to as my uncle if my father was his sibling if i am in doubt of their father being the same man. I could ask if I am still in doubt. If my great grandfather that made that statement whom I have seem both my father and my uncle call grandfather and my grandfather calls him father, if I do not ask my uncle as suggested, it is clear that i believed the person who cleared the air for me by suggesting that i ask my uncle and or i had no doubt in the first place and the suggestion to "ask" was a double assurance of the relation is exactly the way it has been proposed to me.

Quran of Muhammad [sa] is the youngest of all revelations. Allah calls it THE TRUTH. What is there not to accept and if Muhammad [sa] ask or not ask, his Lord has made the DECISION that the TRUTH remains in the hand of Muhammad [sa]. You may need to take up course work in Logic to be able to read good materials and arrive at reasonable conclusion.


How is THE TRUTH going to become less than THE SCRIPTURES which came before it and not anymore described as THE TRUTH? In your mind, how many absolute truth can be on a single subject at anytime? In my understanding, it is ALWAYS 1 and never more than 1.

truthman2012: Then tell the world which Scriptures was revealed before Quran? Or which inspired revelation there was before Quran?

with regards to the "scripture" of the christians, the Qur'an refers only to the recorded, UNADULTERATED message God gave to Jesus to deliver to his people. specifically it calls it "injeel".

it doesn't include corinthians, peter, hebrews, etc

so when the Quran says, scripture, stop assuming its a book containing genesis to revelation.

Which religion practiced or being practiced by people of the "scriptures" should Muhammad [sa] have chosen when neither Moses nor Jesus practiced neither of them but Islam itself?

Could anyone tell me a single prophet [as] whose religion is judaism or christianity and give me evidence for it.
we see the jews praying to a wall in Jerusalem. we see the christians praying as they pray in their prayer processes.

Can anyone be certain of a named prophet [as] who did like the jews or the christians?

Sweetnecta: Which religion practiced or being practiced by people of the "scriptures" should Muhammad [sa] have chosen when neither Moses nor Jesus practiced neither of them but Islam itself?

Could anyone tell me a single prophet [as] whose religion is judaism or christianity and give me evidence for it.
we see the jews praying to a wall in Jerusalem. we see the christians praying as they pray in their prayer processes.

Can anyone be certain of a named prophet [as] who did like the jews or the christians?

MUHAMMED...................................... only if christians can accept that.

.