A senate candidate, Richard Mourdock stated during the debate that;

[size=18pt]“I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
[/size]







This is not the first time that a christian conservative has made constoversial comments in order to promote his/her anti-abortion stance.


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/gop-senate-candidate-conception-from-rape-%E2%80%98is-something-that-god-intended%E2%80%99/

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/gop-senate-candidate-conception-from-rape-%E2%80%98is-something-that-god-intended%E2%80%99/

[size=18pt]“I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time,[/size]

LOGIC/REASON

[size=18pt] but I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”[/size]

FAITH

musKeeto:
LOGIC/REASON


FAITH

Logic and reason dont go hand in hand!

Interesting.

Logicboy03:



Logic and reason dont go hand in hand!

Explain...

musKeeto:


Explain...

Whoops!


logic and faith

I was only pointing out how FAITH works...

God killed more people in the OT than the Devil - Christian *wow, that must be wrong* / Logic and reason working
ITS GOD'S WILL AND HE's JUST -- Faith comes in...

musKeeto: I was only pointing out how FAITH works...

God killed more people in the OT than the Devil - Christian *wow, that must be wrong* / Logic and reason working
ITS GOD'S WILL AND HE's JUST -- Faith comes in...

No problem bro!


However, I cant believe that you changed your signature! I was desperately "praying" that you would. Nice one!

Logicboy03: A senate candidate, Richard Mourdock stated during the debate that;

[size=18pt]“I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
[/size]

This is not the first time that a christian conservative has made constoversial comments in order to promote his/her anti-abortion stance.

The tragedy that is this statement should be measured on the Richter Scale. It is also unfortunate too that this kind of nonsense will be ascribed as the belief of all conservatives. I can only shake my head.

JeSoul:
The tragedy that is this statement should be measured on the Richter Scale. It is also unfortunate too that this kind of nonsense will be ascribed as the belief of all conservatives. I can only shake my head.

I can understand anti-abortion stance but some conservatives take it to the extreme. Isnt saying that you are pro-life enough? Why must one now mention molestaion?

Logicboy03:



I can understand anti-abortion stance but some conservatives take it to the extreme. Isnt saying that you are pro-life enough? Why must one now mention molestaion?

Indeed they do, and make themselves look like total jack-axxes to common sense people everywhere. I'm conservative and anti-abortion, but pro-choice. Each woman should make their own decision & live with the consequences & will answer for them one day.

JeSoul: Indeed they do, and make themselves look like total jack-axxes to common sense people everywhere. I'm conservative and anti-abortion, but pro-choice. Each woman should make their own decision & live with the consequences & will answer for them one day.

Agreed! There are conservatives I like like Ron Paul and Huntsman but I really dislike the extreme conservatives

Logicboy03:



I can understand anti-abortion stance but some conservatives take it to the extreme. Isnt saying that you are pro-life enough? Why must one now mention molestaion?

The problem is that when a politician says something, you have to follow it to its logical conclusion or there may be terrible unforseen consequences in the future.

If a politician opposes abortion in all circumstances, you have to think of rápe victims. If they talk about banning stem cell research, you need to think of all the people with diseases that stem cell research has the potential to cure. You also have to ask if they're going to try and ban in-vitro fertilization which also involves the eventual destruction of embryos.

You have to closely scrutinize everything that politicians say or they will screw you royally when they get into office.

Evil Brain:

The problem is that when a politician says something, you have to follow it to its logical conclusion or there may be terrible unforseen consequences in the future.

If a politician opposes abortion in all circumstances, you have to think of rápe victims. If they talk about banning stem cell research, you need to think of all the people with diseases that stem cell research has the potential to cure. You also have to ask if they're going to try and ban in-vitro fertilization which also involves the eventual destruction of embryos.

You have to closely scrutinize everything that politicians say or they will screw you royally when they get into office.

That is true.

It is truly shocking what these politicians say at times. People like Frosbel and Oladegbun love these types of fundamentlaist christian politicians. You can never find them here on such a thread

The main question here is @ what point does a human being becomes entitled to his/her fundamental human rights.Does a foetus in the mother's womb have the right to life or should simply depends on the mothers wishes?

If a child should be killed simply because it is undesirable I wonder the hypocrisy of prosecuting teenage mothers who smothered their kids like the one I read recently happened in the US.why was the mother arrested and charged for murder? Or is it simply because the baby has already been born?

If you can't kill a new born 'unwanted baby' I wonder what moral justication will you ave to kill the same baby in the womb

chukwudi44: The main question here is @ what point does a human being becomes entitled to his/her fundamental human rights.Does a foetus in the mother's womb have the right to life or should simply depends on the mothers wishes?

Very very important question at the heart of the issue - unfortunately the answer will vary from person to person, belief to belief.

I believe life begins at birth, and a foetus is inextricably tied to the mother - so it is not black & white on these issues. There was a thread a while back on a child who was raped, got pregnant & sick. Doctors said she needed to abort the baby or she may die. The Catholic church (this was Brazil I think, or somewhere Southamerica) said no, abortion is wrong in all cases, but what about the life of the poor raped girl?

If a child should be killed simply because it is undesirable I wonder the hypocrisy of prosecuting teenage mothers who smothered their kids like the one I read recently happened in the US.why was the mother arrested and charged for murder? Or is it simply because the baby has already been born?

If you can't kill a new born 'unwanted baby' I wonder what moral justication will you ave to kill the same baby in the womb

There is none! (at least in my opinion), but it is still their right to choose to do the "immoral" thing, just like its their right to 'sin' - or else God would not have given us freewill. And I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but I would never 'condemn' any woman who was raped and decided to not keep the pregnancy.

chukwudi44: The main question here is @ what point does a human being becomes entitled to his/her fundamental human rights.Does a foetus in the mother's womb have the right to life or should simply depends on the mothers wishes?

If a child should be killed simply because it is undesirable I wonder the hypocrisy of prosecuting teenage mothers who smothered their kids like the one I read recently happened in the US.why was the mother arrested and charged for murder? Or is it simply because the baby has already been born?

If you can't kill a new born 'unwanted baby' I wonder what moral justication will you ave to kill the same baby in the womb

The debate is not about abortion.....it is about rape. Why would someone say that rape is from God?


BTW.....a baby in the womb is part of the mother. Not exactly the same as a bouncing baby in a cot

JeSoul: Very very important question at the heart of the issue - unfortunately the answer will vary from person to person, belief to belief.

I believe life begins at birth, and a foetus is inextricably tied to the mother - so it is not black & white on these issues. There was a thread a while back on a child who was raped, got pregnant & sick. Doctors said she needed to abort the baby or she may die. The Catholic church (this was Brazil I think, or somewhere Southamerica) said no, abortion is wrong in all cases, but what about the life of the poor raped girl?

There is none! (at least in my opinion), but it is still their right to choose to do the "immoral" thing, just like its their right to 'sin' - or else God would not have given us freewill. And I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but I would never 'condemn' any woman who was raped and decided to not keep the pregnancy.

This is not about abortion but mostly about rape.



Anyways, rape is a good justification for abortion. Doesnt your bible tell you not to test God? When you are saying that there is no justification for abortion, hope that you are never put in such a situation. Molestation is no joke

Molestation is condemable but a child who happens to arise from such an incident should be allowed to live.Abortion can only be justified when the life of the mother is @ risk and nothing more.every human being should have the right to life.The law should be tailored to protect the weak and vulnerable.Why terminate the life of young child simply because it is 'unwanted'.Do you know this young creatures also feel pains. You can imagine the pain this kids pass through when the doctors keep stabbing them with their surgical blades

chukwudi44: The main question here is @ what point does a human being becomes entitled to his/her fundamental human rights.Does a foetus in the mother's womb have the right to life or should simply depends on the mothers wishes?

If a child should be killed simply because it is undesirable I wonder the hypocrisy of prosecuting teenage mothers who smothered their kids like the one I read recently happened in the US.why was the mother arrested and charged for murder? Or is it simply because the baby has already been born?

If you can't kill a new born 'unwanted baby' I wonder what moral justication will you ave to kill the same baby in the womb

Try to think of it in terms of property rights. A woman's body is her property and she should have total control over what happens to it. If she wants to carry a baby in it, that's fine. If she wants to risk hwr life giving birth, no problem. But the moment she decides not to, she should have the right to end the pregnancy.

If the baby is not yet able to survive on it's own, then that's too bad. It may sound harsh, but nobody should be forced to provide life-support to someone else against their will, especially when their own life and well-being is at risk. Women are people, not breeding machines.

Once, the baby is able to survive outside the mother, harming it in any way should be a crime. But before that, it's "my house, my rules".

chukwudi44: Molestation is condemable but a child who happens to arise from such an incident should be allowed to live.Abortion can only be justified when the life of the mother is @ risk and nothing more.every human being should have the right to life.The law should be tailored to protect the weak and vulnerable.Why terminate the life of young child simply because it is 'unwanted'.Do you know this young creatures also feel pains. You can imagine the pain this kids pass through when the doctors keep stabbing them with their surgical blades

Can you remember anything from when you were a baby? 1 month old? Talk less of in the womb.


Now, lets say your wife gets raped. You would keep the bastard child of the rape?

[/quote]Can you remember anything from when you were a baby? 1 month old? Talk less of in the womb. [quote]

What sort of analogy is this? Can a child who is 0-12 months old remember anything he or she did? Does that mean we are allowed to kill them?

The fact remains that everyone incling an unborn baby should have a constitutionally enshrined right to life.

chukwudi44: Can you remember anything from when you were a baby? 1 month old? Talk less of in the womb.

What sort of analogy is this? Can a child who is 0-12 months old remember anything he or she did? Does that mean we are allowed to kill them?

The fact remains that everyone incling an unborn baby should have a constitutionally enshrined right to life.

May your sisters or daughters or wives never be raped with pregnancy

[/quote]20. Evil Brain(m): Quote Post

chukwudi44: The main question here is @ what point does a human being becomes entitled to his/her fundamental human rights.Does a foetus in the mother's womb have the right to life or should simply depends on the mothers wishes?

If a child should be killed simply because it is undesirable I wonder the hypocrisy of prosecuting teenage mothers who smothered their kids like the one I read recently happened in the US.why was the mother arrested and charged for murder? Or is it simply because the baby has already been born?

If you can't kill a new born 'unwanted baby' I wonder what moral justication will you ave to kill the same baby in the womb

If the baby is not yet able to survive on it's own, then that's too bad. It may sound harsh, but nobody should be forced to provide life-support to someone else against their will, especially when their own life and well-being is at risk. Women are people, not breeding machines. [quote]

Even a new born baby cannot survive on its own but rather depend on his/her parents for upkeep.Does it now mean couples should be permitted to kill their babies because they cannot provide for them? Let me cit an instance; a poor farmer's wife is pregnant and the man has barely manged to provide materials for a single baby.If the wife ends up giving birth to triplets is he allowed to kill two of them? Your guess is as good as mine

How's this different from the usual "it is God's will" most Nigerian Christians are quick to say when bad things happen?

A new baby dies from fake medicine, y'all say it's God's will.

Thousands die in car accidents because of bad roads. . .it is God's will.

Children are kidnapped, their heads chopped off and innards used for money ritual. . God's will.

If twas God's will for all that, why not rape too?

chukwudi44: 20. Evil Brain(m): Quote Post

chukwudi44: The main question here is @ what point does a human being becomes entitled to his/her fundamental human rights.Does a foetus in the mother's womb have the right to life or should simply depends on the mothers wishes?

If a child should be killed simply because it is undesirable I wonder the hypocrisy of prosecuting teenage mothers who smothered their kids like the one I read recently happened in the US.why was the mother arrested and charged for murder? Or is it simply because the baby has already been born?

If you can't kill a new born 'unwanted baby' I wonder what moral justication will you ave to kill the same baby in the womb

If the baby is not yet able to survive on it's own, then that's too bad. It may sound harsh, but nobody should be forced to provide life-support to someone else against their will, especially when their own life and well-being is at risk. Women are people, not breeding machines.

Even a new born baby cannot survive on its own but rather depend on his/her parents for upkeep.Does it now mean couples should be permitted to kill their babies because they cannot provide for them? Let me cit an instance; a poor farmer's wife is pregnant and the man has barely manged to provide materials for a single baby.If the wife ends up giving birth to triplets is he allowed to kill two of them? Your guess is as good as mine

A baby doesn't necessarily need to be taken care of by its parents to survive. Other people can do it instead, even the government can. On the other hand, before 28 weeks, a baby's chances of survving putside the womb are practically zero. If the mother decides that she doesnt want it in her body anymore should have the right to stop harbouring it.

Imagine if someone is dependent on life-support machines, and his relatives are no longer willing to pay the crazy medical hills. Should they be forced to? Should the government force them to sell their property and impoverish their kids to keep the patient alive? Should you be forced to donate your kidney because someone else can't live without it?

The answer is no. If I want to give you my kidney, that's fine.But if not, you'll just have to sort yourself out without my help. If you die, then too bad. Pregnancy is more dangerous and more life-changing than donating a spare organ, especially in Nigeria. People should not ne forced to go through it against their will.

chukwudi44: The main question here is @ what point does a human being becomes entitled to his/her fundamental human rights.Does a foetus in the mother's womb have the right to life or should simply depends on the mothers wishes?

If a child should be killed simply because it is undesirable I wonder the hypocrisy of prosecuting teenage mothers who smothered their kids like the one I read recently happened in the US.why was the mother arrested and charged for murder? Or is it simply because the baby has already been born?

If you can't kill a new born 'unwanted baby' I wonder what moral justication will you ave to kill the same baby in the womb

My reasoning is this: the foetus is entitled to a right to life, if its a person recognizable under the law. Being human isn't enough, it must be able to hold and assert at least the minimum legal powers, in order words capable. For personhood to accrue on the foetus, it has to have attributes of personality especially consciousness or in a state seperable from a vegetative one.

On the other hand,the mother has as much right to life and privacy which would include reproductive rights. She is entitled to decisions that govern her reproductive capacity and shouldn't suffer compulsory pregnancy. Whenever her life is endangered,or her source of livelihood is at stake, she is entitled to abort.

Also note that, insisting a foetus is a person and thus entitled to fundamental rights, in no way is inferior to the mother and therefore where a mother's life is in danger, her right to life doesn't supercede the foetus'.

Also Nigerian Law, doesn't regard an abortion as murder