Hi Babymine,

I don't believe drinking in moderation is wrong.
I believe the Bible teaches us not to be drunk with wine (Ephesians 5:18)

The medicinal effects of the occasional glass of red wine are well documented.
Paul exhorted Timothy to drink a little wine for his frequent infirmities ( 1 Timothy 5:23, another Bible first! ) But please note he said "a little".

The bible calls wine/strong drink a mocker (Proverbs 20:1), and describes drunkards as unwise.

The word "drunk" is also used in some instances to describe the pouring out of
God's wrath, (we should be aware and careful as strong drink is not the only thing one can be drunk on). But that's probably a bit "off-thread" so I'll stop.


God bless

So one can take a little?

Hi Babymine

A glass of red wine a day appears to have served the French very well in health terms.

Personally I've never had a drink (before or since I became a Christian, sweettoothed me  ). If I decided to have the odd glass of wine with some meals (porridge and wine sounds somewhat odd  ), it would be a question of how much is beneficial? and how much is too much? As long as I could reconcile those two points no problem

I have heard it preached that drinking is actually a sin, but I don't agree with that. Study the Bible, be led by the Holy Spirit and draw your own conclusions.


God bless

There is absolutely NO way for a believer to justify drinking alcoholic beverages. The Scriptures found in Proverbs 23:29-35 clearly warn everyone (Christian or non-Christian) to abstain from the DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE OF ALCOHOL. "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." Did you read that?, LOOK NOT! God is telling us NOT to drink intoxicating wine, not even to "look" at it (i.e., consider drinking it)! For the wise Christian, drinking alcohol is NOT even an option

@Uche,
Bros, how then would you explain the below verse?

1 Timothy 5:23  
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

I believe it's good to take wine. But not in excess, because when it's in excess, you get drunk and do many awful things. Just like the scriptures encourages us below:

Ephesians 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit

Did Jesus not drink wine.

Hi Uche1,

Appended is the scripture detailing the Lord turning water into wine. While I'll accept it is not an endorsement for drunkenness, I think it's fair to assume that wine has it's place and time.

John 2:1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." 4 "Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied. "My time has not yet come." 5 His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you." 6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons. 7 Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. 8 Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now." 11 This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed at Cana in Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.

I for one will not even consider taking the Lord to task  .

Daniel 4:35 - All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done?"

God bless

I totally agree with @TV01

If Drinking was Bad, then i don't think Jesus would have turned water into wine, maybe if he were these pastors of today he would rather turn wine info water.

Some of may say the wine Jesus create might be just ordinary wine but that isn't true as we remember that the Director of the Feast of that same wedding commented that the Groom left the Best wine for later instead of doing he norm which was serve people high quality wine and then when they are drunk they bring out the low quality wine and give the drunks since by then they cant differentiate BTW Good or Bad wine.

So I believe alcohol like every other thing in this world, Food, Money, Parties, Sex are Bad when taken or indulged in too much, they should all be done in moderation.

Well, as for, I didn't back the idea of people taking alcohol, talkless of christians.

Is smoking a sin?Afterall it is not expressly written in the Bible that thou shall not smoke.Abi?

In justifying any form of religion act or abstinence, it is oftem necessary to look as the whole picture and do an evaluation. What does drinking do to you? We can not fully understand the kind of wine that Jesus Christ changed water too because the Greek Language from which the new testament is translated from is not exactly English.

Christ did not come to debate or condemn anyone.He even spent time in the midst of people who were considered by the religious leaders at that time leaders.

My Answer: When Christ is known to you,the answer will not be gotten on this thread or any one else-it will be within you because that is what He will do, build you from inside out and make you new.

I wonder why many people like to re-interprete the Bible, say more than it has said, give more meaning to what it gives meaning to, just for the purpose of suiting their shortcomings, encouraging them in their vices and at least silencing their consciences.

- People that smoke will say that the Bible never said in any passage that one should not smoke.
- Those that drink alcohol will give an example of Jesus turning water into wine. They'll say Paul advised it for infirmities
- Those committing fornication and adultery will say that one of the prophets in the Bible was told to go and marry a prostitute. They will quote Solomon since he married strange women. Others will question how Mary got pregnant. Others will throw their weight behind Judas and mary magdalene.
- Those that want to commit suicide will say that they want to do as Peter did, then they'll drown. They will say "thou shalt not kill" only refers to others, not self.
- Even some extremists will go and hang themselves on the cross just like Jesus. (to be like thee Lord, to be Like thee)
- Pedophilers will ask where Cain got his wife from, and how come Abraham married his sister.
- Haters of God, and haters of Peace will say God commanded Israel to go and fight in battles, knowing that they will kill their enemies. They will even say God helped them.
- Nudists will say they wanted to go back to Eden, be like Adam and Eve.
- Idolaters will say Israel offered sacrifices for atonement of their sins.
- Some after committing a crime will say that the Devil Pushed them. I wonder why they stood at ease as the devil approached their back.


What else wont man think about. Please tell me, since we claim that even Jesus Himself is not good enough. We know how to claim ONLY the promises of God, yet we find it hard to obey simple commandments. Yet, theres a voice deep within us telling us its the truth.

Its a good sign anyway that majority of us have heard about Jesus, have read a Bible before, are reading and perhaps will still read Gods word. At the end of the day, no man will have an excuse that "I didnt hear".

My question is: With or without the Bible, with or without the religious leaders of our time, with or without the widespread of Christianity and general good living in the society, doesnt man have the capability to reason correctly? don't we have an inner strength within us that tells us what is right and what is wrong even though we might have never received formal instruction to guide us in differentiating black from white? Are there not so many things, so many areas in life, where we don't need someone to tell us in cold-words what is right or wrong? if only we would use our head and consciences. If you know something is destructive in nature, why engage in it a little, why engage in it at all?

Doesnt anyone here know that alcohol kills brain-cells. The more you consume, the more deadbrain cells are there upstairs. I wonder whether loosing one's mind is an option we would want.

My advise for people usually is this:
if you want to do something, or
if you have done something, and
your heart cautions you against your action(past or future),
but still the "I" in you still wants to do what you want to do,
regardless of your conscience or even people's advice,
it is extremely and awfully wrong to take the Bible and find a way to justify yourself.

@Uche1
Please tell them.

@gidig
just as if i knew you were going on the smoking line. I had been typing my post when you posted yours,
gotcha!!

@ kimba,

Well said

kimba:


Doesnt anyone here know that alcohol kills brain-cells. The more you consume, the more deadbrain cells are there upstairs. I wonder whether loosing one's mind is an option we would want.

This is from the Harvard school of Public Health http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html

"Throughout the 10,000 or so years that humans have been drinking fermented beverages, they've also been arguing about their merits and demerits. The debate still simmers today, with a lively back-and-forth over whether alcohol is good for you or bad for you.

It's safe to say that alcohol is both a tonic and a poison. The difference lies mostly in the dose. Moderate drinking seems to be good for the heart and circulatory system, and probably protects against type 2 diabetes and gallstones. [/b]Heavy drinking is a major cause of preventable death in most countries.

In case you want to ask what moderate drinking is I take one or two bottles of beer, or 2 shots of whiskey/rum/cognac or 2 glasses of wine. everyone should know their limits!. My father always said drink a little (in moderation) so you would drink it till you die!.

[b]Why is it that every one who converts brings out the bible and wants to take the rest of us along, if you think drinking is evil stop. leave it alone and leave me alone!
otherwise drink on! cheers! in fact drink to me!

kimba:


Doesnt anyone here know that alcohol kills brain-cells. The more you consume, the more deadbrain cells are there upstairs. I wonder whether loosing one's mind is an option we would want.

My advise for people usually is this:
if you want to do something, or
if you have done something, and
your heart cautions you against your action(past or future),
but still the "I" in you still wants to do what you want to do,
regardless of your conscience or even people's advice,
it is extremely and awfully wrong to take the Bible and find a way to justify yourself.

@Uche1
Please tell them.

Kimba, remember, hypocrites will go to Hell Fire too. Don't get me wrong, I did not mention names o. That said, you must understand that:

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

As long as we are in this world, in the flesh, your spirit as a man/woman will always strive against the Spirit of God. It takes the likes of a regenerated man to fend off, or at least minimise the power of the flesh againt the Spirit of God.

You need to know that as Christians, we are enjoined to be moderate in all of the things we do in life (dressing, drinking, partying, sports etc etc), before all men. Moderation is the key here:

Philippians 4:5
Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

One can easily infer from the above passage that taking too much food can lead to sin.  It's just unfortunate that unbelievers have capitalise on some verses of the scriptures to think they can do anything they like.

Pertaining to this drinking as a Christian thread, I personally do not drink in public. The best I can do is a bottle of Malta Guiness to cool off. At home, I can take Irish wine and some other low alcohol content drinks. Believe me, these drinks have a way of refreshing me. And you must understand that some drugs in syrups (liquid form) often have a certain percentage of alcohol in them - go ask a Pharmacists, they will tell you.

So, I advice that as a Christian let your moderation be known to all men, everywhere you go. Drink when you need to and don't get drunk.

kimba:

I wonder why many people like to re-interprete the Bible, say more than it has said, give more meaning to what it gives meaning to, just for the purpose of suiting their shortcomings, encouraging them in their vices and at least silencing their consciences.

- People that smoke will say that the Bible never said in any passage that one should not smoke.
- Those that drink alcohol will give an example of Jesus turning water into wine. They'll say Paul advised it for infirmities
- Those committing fornication and adultery will say that one of the prophets in the Bible was told to go and marry a prostitute. They will quote Solomon since he married strange women. Others will question how Mary got pregnant. Others will throw their weight behind Judas and mary magdalene.
- Those that want to commit suicide will say that they want to do as Peter did, then they'll drown. They will say "thou shalt not kill" only refers to others, not self.
- Even some extremists will go and hang themselves on the cross just like Jesus. (to be like thee Lord, to be Like thee)
- Pedophilers will ask where Cain got his wife from, and how come Abraham married his sister.
- Haters of God, and haters of Peace will say God commanded Israel to go and fight in battles, knowing that they will kill their enemies. They will even say God helped them.
- Nudists will say they wanted to go back to Eden, be like Adam and Eve.
- Idolaters will say Israel offered sacrifices for atonement of their sins.
- Some after committing a crime will say that the Devil Pushed them. I wonder why they stood at ease as the devil approached their back.


What else wont man think about. Please tell me, since we claim that even Jesus Himself is not good enough. We know how to claim ONLY the promises of God, yet we find it hard to obey simple commandments. Yet, theres a voice deep within us telling us its the truth.

Its a good sign anyway that majority of us have heard about Jesus, have read a Bible before, are reading and perhaps will still read Gods word. At the end of the day, no man will have an excuse that "I didnt hear".

My question is: With or without the Bible, with or without the religious leaders of our time, with or without the widespread of Christianity and general good living in the society, doesnt man have the capability to reason correctly? don't we have an inner strength within us that tells us what is right and what is wrong even though we might have never received formal instruction to guide us in differentiating black from white? Are there not so many things, so many areas in life, where we don't need someone to tell us in cold-words what is right or wrong? if only we would use our head and consciences. If you know something is destructive in nature, why engage in it a little, why engage in it at all?

Doesnt anyone here know that alcohol kills brain-cells. The more you consume, the more deadbrain cells are there upstairs. I wonder whether loosing one's mind is an option we would want.

My advise for people usually is this:
if you want to do something, or
if you have done something, and
your heart cautions you against your action(past or future),
but still the "I" in you still wants to do what you want to do,
regardless of your conscience or even people's advice,
it is extremely and awfully wrong to take the Bible and find a way to justify yourself.

@Uche1
Please tell them.

thats my bro right thurr, i love u jare, _{avent heard of alcohol causing brain cell damage o}

hmmmmmm

Babymine,
If you really want to be born again and you truly desire to be close to God, I would advise that you keep away from alcohol. Of what use really is it? Don't listen to what the "bible quoters" say. People always quote the bible out of context in order to suit their purpose.

I believe all religions are against alcohol because it impedes spiritual purity.

@Kimba, you're the man. May you continue to grow in wisdom.

gidig:

Is smoking a sin?Afterall it is not expressly written in the Bible that thou shall not smoke.Abi?

In justifying any form of religion act or abstinence, it is oftem necessary to look as the whole picture and do an evaluation. What does drinking do to you? We can not fully understand the kind of wine that Jesus Christ changed water too because the Greek Language from which the new testament is translated from is not exactly English.

Christ did not come to debate or condemn anyone.He even spent time in the midst of people who were considered by the religious leaders at that time leaders.

My Answer: When Christ is known to you,the answer will not be gotten on this thread or any one else-it will be within you because that is what He will do, build you from inside out and make you new.

The body is a temple of the Holy Spirit - 1 Cor 6:19

This is another case where modern science and culture has progressed beyond that of the bible, forcing biblical apologies to insist that the more refined norms we follow today were in the bible all along. Moderate drinking of alcohol, like slavery, was never condemned in the bible.

@kimba

Funny enough, we were on the same side. I only want to get my point acros without condemning.The reference to smoking is the same as to drinking.The Bible does not expressly say anything like that but we can be guarded by God's etrenal Laws which Paul used in the beginning of the book of Romans to wran people who question a lot of things that Goid has done and he said these things( the way of God) can be seen in the creations of God. Is it right to put somke into your lungs because you can do it? Is it right(rationale) to submit your soberness to a bottle of drink.

Look God did not say we should have our eyees opened whem we cross the four lane highway.We know by nature the way God orders things that this is the way to do things.Do female dogs run after dogs of the same Kind(strecthing Pauls' reasoning in reltion to Human perversion)

I am sorry my early post was ambigous! This is my stand.

I think if you have the Holy Spirit in you, then you won't be comfortable drinking alcohol. _{This topic always remains unresolved wherever its brought up and I wonder why?}

BTW, all of you who keep saying Jesus turned water into wine, how do you know it had any alcohol in it? Afterall, there are wines with no alcohol in them.

babymine:

BTW, all of you who keep saying Jesus turned water into wine, how do you know it had any alcohol in it? Afterall, there are wines with no alcohol in them.

Thats right

A bit of digging deep in the scriptures will let you in on the type of wine Jesus got from Water. Just do some research about jewish wines, and you get the answer, pronto!

God in his infinite wisdom knew the world will be uninhabitable without ethanol.

it's no big deal!

@gidig

Is smoking a sin?Afterall it is not expressly written in the Bible that thou shall not smoke.Abi?,

Yup its not expressly written in the Bible that one should not smoke.
But is it expressly written in the Bible tha you should go ahead and smoke?
Smoking will give you a cancer certificate, and will kill you eventuall. You have read God's word, you know it, and You should remember that the God does not permit you to kill anyone, including yourself. Ex 20:13. You don't have to take a knife and gush out your loins in a 2-minutes span, you can do it over 30yrs of smoking everything you want to smoke. Its still the same. So if you die unrepentant as a result of vices(of which you were informed), and you bounce up before God, claiming, "O God, why didnt you heal me", He'll tell you, "o boy, you killed yourself, you're a murderer", and heaven is not a place for murderers, get it? But the Bible still clearly never said you shouldnt smoke.


@TV01, @igwe4life
Jesus turned water into wine is not a license for drunkenness. The wine that resulted from Jesus' miracle power is not the many-months-fermented wine/alcohol that we manufacture today. Remember the Bible says, they drank, meaning the people at the wedding drank the "high quality", enjoyed themselves, celebrated with the Bride and groom, and all of them still knew their way back to their different homes. The Groom went home with His wife, he was not assisted. Dont you think the kind of alcohol that you have to mix with water is wrong to drink? why mix it with water in the first place. It was a wedding party where everyone was decent minded, not where the bride/groom was dancing half-naked, not where the music was so loud that you couldnt hear what you yourself were saying, not where you were so cautious to take only a shot-because you know the consequences , what im saying is if you can re-produce the wine served to the people in Christ's time, then go and drink it.

I remember someone telling me he drinks in private by his bed, so that once hes starting to get tispy, he'll just get on his bed, well, the public drunkard and the private one are both drunkards to me,

@zebudaya

It's safe to say that alcohol is both a tonic and a poison. The difference lies mostly in the dose,

Ok, then so whats the definition of MODERATION?, Yes, My level of moderation might be your level of over-dose, so where do we draw the line? and whats God's alcohol-drinking-moderation-measurement-stick, is it until you're almost drunk?

@ono

Kimba, remember, hypocrites will go to Hell Fire too. Don't get me wrong, I did not mention names o. That said, you must understand that:

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

As long as we are in this world, in the flesh, your spirit as a man/woman will always strive against the Spirit of God. It takes the likes of a regenerated man to fend off, or at least minimise the power of the flesh againt the Spirit of God.

You need to know that as Christians, we are enjoined to be moderate in all of the things we do in life (dressing, drinking, partying, sports etc etc), before all men. Moderation is the key here:

Philippians 4:5
Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand

My man Ono, rather than picking a verse of the Bible and taking it as a license file, why not read the whole chapter of Galations chapter 5.

From all youve said, you infer that since the spirit lusteth after the flesh and vice-versa, and though they are contrary to one another, thats why you can not do what you want to do(which is to stop taking alcohol). And therefore, since man's spirit is always at logger heads with Gods spirit, the best thing to do, with support of Phil 4:5 is to do all things moderately(dressing, drinking, partying, sports etc etc),

Sorry sir, you're wrong.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Man is a free moral agent. He is at liberty to do what he wants. Because of sin, man was brought under bondage. Christ came to set free. A man that has been set free is warned to caution himself, now that he has been set free, so that he is not ensnared and led back into the bondage of sin.

v16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
v17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
v18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
v19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
v20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
v21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
v22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
v23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

First, the flesh "lusts", after something and then carries out that lust/s as "work".
Example:
=> no man wakes up and rapes the first woman that I'm jobless. He must have been thinking about "something", he'll then device a way to carry it out.
=> people don't just tell lies(except it has become a habit already, which is in its worst case). You'll first think about the lie, and figure out the best way to tell it.

Now, let me give you verse 16: if the "lust" of the flesh is the desire to drink alcohol, then the "work" of the flesh is the actual drinking, which might result in drunkenness, therefore verse 16 says, walk in the Spirit and you wont even dream about lusting after the flesh(alcohol), meaning the thought wont even cross your mind, if you aint thinking about it, you aint drinking, right, as long as nobody can push it into your mouth with your eyes wide open.

The works of the flesh are outlined in the other verses. If you're telling me your Bible talks about moderation and you'll take Phil 4:5 as an all in all, then we can re-quote:

v19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
v20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
v21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
v22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
v23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

and the works of the Spirit are:
v20 Moderate Idolatry? moderate witchcraft?, moderate hatred?, moderate variance? modetate emulations?
moderate wrath? moderate strife?  moderate seditions? moderate heresies?
v21 moderate Envyings? moderate murders? moderate drunkenness? moderate revellings? and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 

Are these also part of the fruit of the spirit, because as far as I know, a little sip of alcohol makes one a little-drunk, you might not be totally drunk, but at least a little, and little-drunkenness is not the wish of God for mankind, neither can the Holy Spirit dwell in the body of a moderately-drunk man.

In fact its like this: The Moment that Beer Bottle touches your mouth, The Holy Spirit takes a hike before it starts pouring in, thats if the Holy Spirit was in your heart the first place, because if he's there:

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come

and as long as the Holy Spirit hasnt revealed to you to go and drink, then don't do it.

The Holy SPirit and Alcohol cannot dwell in the same body. Alcohol, after getting you tipsy, "might" make you to do/think/say unholy things, which the Holy Spirit can't stand. So he'll rather surrender you to your unholy vices, than put up with them. Anyway, Jesus has done the best that Heaven could offer! so He aint got nothing to loose, its we(you and me).

Notes: Satan never tells anyone what he/she will loose as a result of his/her actions. He only tells man what he will gain. Always, the losses are more than the gains.
- Satan didnt tell Adam and Eve they will be driven out of Eden. He told them how sweet the Apple was.
- He didnt tell Judas what he would loose, He told him about his to-be-status-quo after 30 pieces of silver
- So also, he never tells anyone about gono/AIDS, he'll tell about the sexual enjoyment.
- Satan doesnt tell anyone about Cancer/loosing ones mind, he tells them about "feeling high, cooling off"

   
I Cor 3: 17 = If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
I Cor 6: 19 = What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
I Cor 6: 20 = For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

- Dont you think its wrong to take God's temple and pour alcohol into that temple of God?
- Does a drunk man glorify God, after one comes to a party with his/her own two feet, and they have to help you back to your apartment, or perhaps you realize you are a little-drunk and you quickly ask to depart, a little-drunk child of God? where is it in the Bible.

and your:

Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

Moderation in that passage means more of lifestyle, associations, personal integrity level, your faith, Its more of saying: Let people know who you are, are you for me, let others know it, don't be a secret child of God, don't be a hypocrite. Phil 4:5 is not a licensce for Beer and alcohol.

One can easily infer from the above passage that taking too much food can lead to sin.  It's just unfortunate that unbelievers have capitalise on some verses of the scriptures to think they can do anything they like.

The Bible doesnt need to tell you that taking too much food is/is not a sin. By the time constipation, obesity and their brothers and sisters will give you a legal tender, you'll get the picture. 

Yes, the Bible doesnt give us clear-cuts on everything. What I was saying in my previous post was that the Bible should not be used to satisfy what our conscience warns/cautions us against. Its just a matter of we using our own senses and using one scripture to understand another. If i know that something might cause me harm, I don't need to look for that Bible scripture before knowing what to do.

@babymine even the wines bottled as non-alchoholic wine have alchohol in them only in very little quantities anything that does not have alchohol in it is fruit juice. do the research


"Every man serves the good wine first, and when men have drunk freely, then that which is poorer; you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10, NASB).

At a wedding i drink nice drinks first when there is nothing more to drink i then drink budlight, miller lite, and natural light, and at the same time cursing at the bridegroom for being so cheap!



@Kimba don't play devils advocate I wrote down what I thought moderation was. The bible even says glutonny is a sin, every sane person knows what their limits are.

It's a free world
Why is it that every one who converts brings out the bible and wants to take the rest of us along, if you think drinking is evil stop. leave it alone and leave me alone!
otherwise drink on! cheers! in fact drink to me!

zebudaya:

"Every man serves the good wine first, and when men have drunk freely, then that which is poorer; you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10, NASB).

How does this justify drinking of alcohol?

zebudaya:

It's a free world
Why is it that every one who converts brings out the bible and wants to take the rest of us along, if you think drinking is evil stop. leave it alone and leave me alone!
otherwise drink on! cheers! in fact drink to me!

As a matter of fact, no one is holding you in any manner.  I think we're only rubbing minds here on a delicate issue.  Me thinks you're feeling guilty.


@Those using Jesus' first miracle as a justification:

1. Remember the Bible was not originally written in English. Therefore, 'wine' might have been the best English word to use to describe the drink that Jesus actually changed from water. My point: Jesus actually, might not have changed water into what we all take today as wine.

2. Even if it was wine actually, what makes you so sure it was alcoholic?  Remember not all wines are alcoholic.

zebudaya:

@babymine even the wines bottled as non-alchoholic wine have alchohol in them only in very little quantities anything that does not have alchohol in it is fruit juice. do the research

I really wonder where you got this fact from.

Also, Kimba made a very sensible point when he said: "Remember the Bible says, they drank, meaning the people at the wedding drank the "high quality", enjoyed themselves, celebrated with the Bride and groom, and all of them still knew their way back to their different homes".

If actually the wine was alcoholic, I believe they all must have gone home drunk, afterall, they drunk freely. 


BTW, it was not recorded anywhere in that chapter that Jesus had a taste, talkless of a drink, out of the wine.