daviddext: well, since u call urself a christian and u mean science can make life and God is not the same by d words u speak. Then i will leave u with God for Him to judge u in His own way. Unless u repent you won't be saved from the wrath to come.i hope u change ur mind someday.

Which wrath? since 300AD they have been saying God is coming again and since we wait. Science has made life uncountable times. women without tubes are making babies. it is not by pastors but by doctors. its not be miracles but by experiments.

stop threatening people with wrath, fire and brimstone. let people know the truth and make their own informed choice.

daviddext: with ur post i can percieve u are not a christian. There is no such as best denomination. I was not arguing about who d best is but was only correcting. If u don't know about the full christian faith then do mor research in the bible.

Pls stop arguing with him. God is too big to be reduced to subject of argument with an atheist whom the bible called A FOOL. Just ignore their post and move to the next relevant ones. Thats what i do.

chukwudi44: Don't mind the olodo he is yet to tell me which of the 40,000 + protestant churches I should join to attain heaven

I didnt say that charismatic is the only church that hasthe sound word. There are other churches i listed in another thread i opened sometime last year. Look, if charismatic is doing that your nonsense rosary thing and idol worship then thats bad. But i doubt. Why do you like to wound youself whenever someone tries to point out an error about catholic? I opened a thread on my church here some months ago which you saw. Pls feel free to criticize my church if you find anything wrong and i wont feel bad.

daviddext: you claim the word ''fallible'' as nothing to do with the word '' err'' and mistake''. Don't you? I will tell u this; if u can't challenge anyone with the word of God but follow every teachings that comes your way. Then as a christian, you are likely to err on ur own part. The pope is a human and u are also human. If he is infallible in his teachings as a born again then u should also be infallible in ur teachings as a born again christian too. God make people pastors and bishops but did not make them above erring in some teachings that is got from traditions and theology, dat is why d bible is there to reprove and correct. I made no mistake to leave the catholic church, u should be the one to make more research.

Do you think Peter was fallible or infallible?

If you are fallible, doesn't that mean that any or everything you think you know about faith and morals could be wrong?...including the fact that you think the Pope is fallible. And if you are wrong, doesn't that mean that the Pope could be infallible?

alexleo:

I didnt say that charismatic is the only church that hasthe sound word. There are other churches i listed in another thread i opened sometime last year. Look, if charismatic is doing that your nonsense rosary thing and idol worship then thats bad. But i doubt. Why do you like to wound youself whenever someone tries to point out an error about catholic? I opened a thread on my church here some months ago which you saw. Pls feel free to criticize my church if you find anything wrong and i wont feel bad.

But I asked you questions about your Church almost 2days ago and you haven't answered till now. Why are you now talking as if you are ready to answer any question on your Church when you are not?...when you probably can't.

Protestants claim that the bible is infallible. Then the church that wrote it & compiled it is falliable. What a paradox. Without the catholic church explainig 2 me how a man called himself God I wud hv change religion.

Kamxin: Protestants claim that the bible is infallible. Then the church that wrote it & compiled it is falliable. What a paradox. Without the catholic church explainig 2 me how a man called himself God I wud hv change religion.

You wonder at the manner of reasoning.

That a fallible Church can write and compile an infallible book.

If the Bible is infallible, so is the Church that wrote the new testament and compiled the Bible.

alexleo:

Pls stop arguing with him. God is too big to be reduced to subject of argument with an atheist whom the bible called A FOOL. Just ignore their post and move to the next relevant ones. Thats what i do.

I am not an atheist I believe in GOD but I am not a brainwashed christian

italo:

But I asked you questions about your Church almost 2days ago and you haven't answered till now. Why are you now talking as if you are ready to answer any question on your Church when you are not?...when you probably can't.

Pls go back to that thread and you ll see my reply.

bermuda1:

I am not an atheist I believe in GOD but I am not a brainwashed christian

Your posts in this thread doesnt show any difference between you and the atheists.

Kamxin: Protestants claim that the bible is infallible. Then the church that wrote it & compiled it is falliable. What a paradox. Without the catholic church explainig 2 me how a man called himself God I wud hv change religion.

wrote which bible?

You talk worst than a thief:


the NT is a writing by christ apostles .

The apostles wrote letters and taught the christians what and how to follow in their service to God/faith and this books had there names, and the early 1century congregation knew the writers that sent them the books
.

See some sample of the apostles letters by their own mouth in the bible

peter:
1.

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;" (2 Peter 3:15).

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." (2 Peter 3:16-17).
(note: his epistle)

Paul:
2. "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write." (2 Thessalonians 3:17).

(note: every epistle)

3. "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15).
(note: our epistle)

4. "And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus. The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments." (2 Timothy 4:12-13).

5. "Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction." (2 Corinthians 13:10).

6. "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" (1 Corinthians 5:9).
(note: his epistle)

7. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." (1 Corinthians 5:11).
(note: I have written unto you)

8. "Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not." (Galatians 1:20).
( I write unto you,)

9. "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" (Ephesians 3:3-4).

(note: as I wrote afore in few words,)

Congregations to exchange letters :

10. "And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." (Colossians 4:16).

This are just few letters from the apostles not to talk of revelation and others that they the apostles wrote.

italo:

You wonder at the manner of reasoning.

That a fallible Church can write and compile an infallible book.

If the Bible is infallible, so is the Church that wrote the new testament and compiled the Bible.

still the same lies that you people use in turning people theist.



the NT is a writing by christ apostles .

The apostles wrote letters and taught the christians what and how to follow in their service to God/faith and this books had there names, and the early 1century congregation knew the writers that sent them the books
.

See some sample of the apostles letters by their own mouth in the bible

peter:
1.

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;" (2 Peter 3:15).

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." (2 Peter 3:16-17).
(note: his epistle)

Paul:
2. "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write." (2 Thessalonians 3:17).

(note: every epistle)

3. "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15).
(note: our epistle)

4. "And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus. The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments." (2 Timothy 4:12-13).

5. "Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction." (2 Corinthians 13:10).

6. "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" (1 Corinthians 5:9).
(note: his epistle)

7. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." (1 Corinthians 5:11).
(note: I have written unto you)

8. "Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not." (Galatians 1:20).
( I write unto you,)

9. "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" (Ephesians 3:3-4).

(note: as I wrote afore in few words,)

Congregations to exchange letters :

10. "And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." (Colossians 4:16).

This are just few letters from the apostles not to talk of revelation and others that they the apostles wrote.

Stop exposing your limited bible knowledge.

@ Truthislight,

The early Church was the Catholic Church so all the apostles were Catholic. It was only to differentiate the Church from some heretics also calling themselves "church" (as we have today) that they started using the word "Catholic" to distinguish. So the Church wrote the NT, that's why they had the authority to compile and arrange the Bible. There were many books that the Catholic Church did not include in the NT. Why would they have the authority to choose which is scripture and which is not if they didn't write scripture?

The books of Mark and Luke nowhere state that Mark and Luke were the authors or that they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. How do you then know this? Because the Catholic Church told you. Why do you believe them? Because the Church is infallible. Why is it infallible? Because it is guided by the Holy Spirit so cannot teach error.

^^^ And that "Catholic Church" is to be distinguished from the Roman Catholic Church. The people whose works helped the most to shape the New Testament Canon were NOT Roman Catholic; most of them were from places like Alexandria, Antioch, Hippo etc e.g. Origen, Athanasius, Augustine etc.

Even the Roman Catholic's Council of Trent came when? ------- Looooong after, centuries after the non-Roman Catholics had already basically established the New Testament canon.

A little more of both clarity and honesty is required in relation to what is meant by the "Catholic Church". And I repeat that the Roman Catholic Church is not the catholic Church.

The issue has been discussed more extensively on another thread https://www.nairaland.com/1039359/canon-bible-roman-catholic-church

Enigma:
A little more of both clarity and honesty is required in relation to what is meant by the "Catholic Church". And I repeat that the Roman Catholic Church is not the catholic Church.

Just curious. I want to know the churches or peeps that constitutes the 'catholic church'?

Bros, if we are speaking of the catholic Church, then it is very simple and we know it from two important sources, one human and one divine.

Ignatius who coined and originated the expression "catholic" meant "universal and complete" and thus he said that wherever Jesus is there is the catholic church.

Jesus said said 'where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them'. Thus anywhere you see two or three honestly gathered in Jesus' name ---- you see the catholic Church. in other words the catholic Church is the Christian Church.

There is something that two organisations are fighting over --- that is the "Catholic Church". The Roman Catholic Church claims that it is the "Catholic Church". The Eastern Orthodox say no and claim that they are the genuine "Catholic Church". Hence their name: "Orthodox Catholic Church." However, they are even a little more honest in that they recognise that as there is a schism between them and the Roman Catholic church, it is then questionable to speak of the "Catholic Church".

The Roman Catholic Church needs to be more honest! What it is simply doing is claiming for itself what every one else did. Even things done by people who more properly belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic church is claiming.

Anyway, the main point foryour question is that the catholic Church is the Church of Christ, the Body of Christ ---- and it seen wherever two or three are gathered in Jesus' name.

Enigma: ^^^ And that "Catholic Church" is to be distinguished from the Roman Catholic Church. The people whose works helped the most to shape the New Testament Canon were NOT Roman Catholic; most of them were from places like Alexandria, Antioch, Hippo etc e.g. Origen, Athanasius, Augustine etc.

Even the Roman Catholic's Council of Trent came when? ------- Looooong after, centuries after the non-Roman Catholics had already basically established the New Testament canon.

A little more of both clarity and honesty is required in relation to what is meant by the "Catholic Church". And I repeat that the Roman Catholic Church is not the catholic Church.

The issue has been discussed more extensively on another thread https://www.nairaland.com/1039359/canon-bible-roman-catholic-church

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing like "Roman Catholic Church", I only know "The Catholic Church." It was protestants who added "Roman" in order to legitimize themselves and make it look like they are part of a wider "Catholic Church" and that the "Roman" one is only one branch. The Catholic Church is The Catholic Church.

I was on that thread and saw how Chukwudi44 debunked your position time and again but you refused to concede.

Enigma: Bros, if we are speaking of the catholic Church, then it is very simple and we know it from two important sources, one human and one divine.

Ignatius who coined and originated the expression "catholic" meant "universal and complete" and thus he said that wherever Jesus is there is the catholic church.

Jesus said said 'where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them'. Thus anywhere you see two or three honestly gathered in Jesus' name ---- you see the catholic Church. in other words the catholic Church is the Christian Church.

There is something that two organisations are fighting over --- that is the "Catholic Church". The Roman Catholic Church claims that it is the "Catholic Church". The Eastern Orthodox say no and claim that they are the genuine "Catholic Church". Hence their name: "Orthodox Catholic Church." However, they are even a little more honest in that they recognise that as there is a schism between them and the Roman Catholic church, it is then questionable to speak of the "Catholic Church".

The Roman Catholic Church needs to be more honest! What it is simply doing is claiming for itself what every one else did. Even things done by people who more properly belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic church is claiming.

Anyway, the main point foryour question is that the catholic Church is the Church of Christ, the Body of Christ ---- and it seen wherever two or three are gathered in Jesus' name.

You answered like a lawyer. I was expecting a response meant for a layman like me. You assume i am one of your learned colleague

Enigma:
Ignatius who coined and originated the expression "catholic" meant "universal and complete" and thus he said that wherever Jesus is there is the catholic church.

Jesus said said 'where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them'. Thus anywhere you see two or three honestly gathered in Jesus' name ---- you see the catholic Church. in other words the catholic Church is the Christian Church.

The reason i ask is that it would appear you are trying to force peeps into being part of the 'catholic church'. Your interpretation above indicates there should be one catholic church, not two catholic church. The thing is most Christians don't see themselves as one and one group don't want to be associated with the other e.g. the Jehovah witnesses don't want anything to do with the Roman Catholic; the Petecostal peeps don't want be close to the Cele boys (& girls), e.t.c from your post we see the Eastern Orthodox fighting with the Roman peeps over ownership of the name 'Catholic'. Since these peeps don't believe they are one, who are the true 'Catholics'?

Enigma:
Thus anywhere you see two or three honestly gathered in Jesus' name ---- you see the catholic Church.

You qualified the gathering here. So how do we recognize those gathering 'honestly'? if you know what i mean

alexleo:

I ve written about my church here before. Moreover am not trying to advertise. Am just giving a sincere advice to catholics.

And this sincere advise will lead them to heaven, then why not join the group? or don't you want to make heaven as well?

plappville:
And this sincere advise will lead them to heaven, then why not join the group? or don't you want to make heaven as well?

italo:

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing like "Roman Catholic Church", I only know "The Catholic Church." It was protestants who added "Roman" in order to legitimize themselves and make it look like they are part of a wider "Catholic Church" and that the "Roman" one is only one branch. The Catholic Church is The Catholic Church.

I was on that thread and saw how Chukwudi44 debunked your position time and again but you refused to concede.

1. The Roman Catholic Church does indeed call itself the 'Roman Catholic Church' or even sometimes the 'Roman Church'. Vatican documents and other documents of the Roman Catholic Church refer to it as such and its "popes" have also often referred to it as such.

2. The Eastern Orthodox even arguably have a better claim to the expression "The Catholic Church". They invented the expression through Ignatius and people more properly belonging within what is now the Eastern Orthodox were more influential in the original "The Catholic Church" and in shaping the canon of the Bible.

3. If you say Chukwudi "debunked" my argument on the other thread, I can only laugh at that. I know that the lies on which the Roman Catholic Church's arguments are based were exposed on that thread.

Zikkyy:

You answered like a lawyer. I was expecting a response meant for a layman like me. You assume i am one of your learned colleague




The reason i ask is that it would appear you are trying to force peeps into being part of the 'catholic church'. Your interpretation above indicates there should be one catholic church, not two catholic church. The thing is most Christians don't see themselves as one and one group don't want to be associated with the other e.g. the Jehovah witnesses don't want anything to do with the Roman Catholic; the Petecostal peeps don't want be close to the Cele boys (& girls), e.t.c from your post we see the Eastern Orthodox fighting with the Roman peeps over ownership of the name 'Catholic'. Since these peeps don't believe they are one, who are the true 'Catholics'?



You qualified the gathering here. So how do we recognize those gathering 'honestly'? if you know what i mean

I don't know but it's apparent that you're misunderstanding him, perhaps deliberately, perhaps not. I'd bet my left slipper on the former though.

1. "Two or three gathered in Jesus's name" does not mean two or three in a conference opened with the invocation of Jesus's name. It means at least two true believers. True believers are bearers of Jesus's Name. They carry Jesus's Nature and are distinct, though not to the uninitiated, from the mass of humanity. Once at least two of such come together in any manner, ceremonially or completely informally, the Church is fully represented. It matters nothing if there is in their company an impostor or a clearly identified unbeliever.

2. "catholics", as you call them, "pentecostals", "cele", etc do not qualify as Christians in the context of Enigma's post. That does not mean that there are no christians in "pentecostal" or "catholic" gatherings (not saying anything about "cele", can't begin to imagine a christian there at all myself), it means that when we talk of "gathering" or the Church, we're not speaking of something merely physical. I have no idea what label the fellowship that some of my brothers on this board, Enigma for instance, identify with is. But I don't care because I "smelled" Christ on them and have proven them as brethren. When I'm on here, I'm gathering with them. Nothing complicated about that.

3. In summary, the Christian is not merely a label, he's a particular type of species and you must judge him accordingly. The Church is the whole species, that is, the universal set of every person bearing the Nature or Name of Jesus Christ. For this reason, she's called CATHOLIC. She's not identifiable to any eyes but Christ's. Her effect may be perceived but her nature is always hidden. She will only truly be revealed when her Groom comes for her. At that time, the salt will be "precipitated" out of the earth. (It's not really like that, but it's the easiest way to explain it.) There is only one Church, it is catholic in nature; there is only one type of Christian: the man with Jesus's "dna".

italo: @ Truthislight,

The early Church was the Catholic Church so all the apostles were Catholic. It was only to differentiate the Church from some heretics also calling themselves "church" (as we have today) that they started using the word "Catholic" to distinguish. So the Church wrote the NT, that's why they had the authority to compile and arrange the Bible. There were many books that the Catholic Church did not include in the NT. Why would they have the authority to choose which is scripture and which is not if they didn't write scripture?

The books of Mark and Luke nowhere state that Mark and Luke were the authors or that they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. How do you then know this? Because the Catholic Church told you. Why do you believe them? Because the Church is infallible. Why is it infallible? Because it is guided by the Holy Spirit so cannot teach error.

Do you mean the largest denomination in the world, the universal church is the true church of God?
So why did Christ called His church "little flock" If they are supossed to be the large?
"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12:32).
The same "Little flock" who alone preaches the "gospel of the Kingdom" (Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:6) and preserves the true Scriptures and pure doctrines is the large universal catholic The one known as "the piller and grand of truth"? (1Tim. 3:15) "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" .

Dont forget that the bible teaches us that: "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (2Cor. 11:14), "which deceiveth the whole world" (Rev. 12:9).

Zikkyy:

You answered like a lawyer. I was expecting a response meant for a layman like me. You assume i am one of your learned colleague




The reason i ask is that it would appear you are trying to force peeps into being part of the 'catholic church'. Your interpretation above indicates there should be one catholic church, not two catholic church. The thing is most Christians don't see themselves as one and one group don't want to be associated with the other e.g. the Jehovah witnesses don't want anything to do with the Roman Catholic; the Petecostal peeps don't want be close to the Cele boys (& girls), e.t.c from your post we see the Eastern Orthodox fighting with the Roman peeps over ownership of the name 'Catholic'. Since these peeps don't believe they are one, who are the true 'Catholics'?



You qualified the gathering here. So how do we recognize those gathering 'honestly'? if you know what i mean

Nna Bros, the thing to remember is that there is only ONE Church! As we say in one hymn like that: "one Church, one Faith, one Lord".

Ignatius who invented the expression "catholic Church" intended it to mean the One Church; the Christian Church, the Body of Christ.

So as far as I'm concerned I know of only ONE Church; the Christian Church. When I say 'catholic Church', I mean the universal Church. The Church which has Jesus Christ as its head. It really knows no "denominations" and "abominations". It comprises of all (as many) as have received Him and who He has thus given powers to become the children of God; see John 1:12.

There are good and bad reasons why some people dissociate themselves from "The Catholic Church" especially when that is understood to mean the Roman Catholic church.

Nevertheless, as I have pointed out before, evangelicals (including knowledgeable 'Pentecostals') describe themselves as catholic; they have always done so and they have done so expressly and deliberately in important documents and credal formulation at minimum since 1646 in the context of the Reformation and even much before ---- going back to the Nicene creed and even before that going back to Ignatius and even before that going back to the recognition of the one universal Church of Jesus Christ.

Again here is an extract from the Westminster Confession of Faith of 1646! (Posted previously on the other thread)

http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/westminster_conf_of_faith.html

CHAPTER XXV.
Of the Church.

I. The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all.

II. The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; and of their children: and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.

III. Unto this catholic and visible Church, Christ hath given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God, for the gathering and perfecting of the saints, in this life, to the end of the world; and doth by his own presence and Spirit, according to his promise, make them effectual thereunto.

IV. This catholic Church hath been sometimes more, sometimes less, visible. And particular Churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.

V. The purest Churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error: and some have so degenerated as to become apparently no Churches of Christ. Nevertheless, there shall be always a Church on earth, to worship God according to his will.

VI. {deleted by Enigma because it is inflammatory}.

[b][/b]

plappville:

And this sincere advise will lead them to heaven, then why not join the group? or don't you want to make heaven as well?

yeah its my sincere advise to them because what they are currently practicing now is from the pit of hell. worshiping any image is satanic. praying through Mary is satanic. The message of purgatory and praying for the dead to be forgiven and taken to heaven is satanic. They need the message of salvation. They need the sound word of God and not the rubbish they are practicing now. The charismatic is a group in catholic that realised the junk they are practicing and decided to do away with them and started preaching the sound word of salvation thats why i said they should join the group since its also a catholic group. I didnt mean that the group is the only place where sound word for making heaven is preached. My church is preaching the sound word and any day they stop i ll leave them. I dont need cheap word. I want the hard truth of God's word.

Ihedinobi:
I don't know but it's apparent that you're misunderstanding him, perhaps deliberately, perhaps not. I'd bet my left slipper on the former though.

In that case you will have to surrender your right slipper as well but if your slippers has holes in them (due to wear & tear), you can keep them

Ihedinobi:
(not saying anything about "cele", can't begin to imagine a christian there at all myself),

Na you talk am. No comment from my end

Ihedinobi:
There is only one Church, it is catholic in nature; there is only one type of Christian: the man with Jesus's "dna".

Okay. but just one question, can confirm if Jesus has prosperity in his "dna"? am trying to eliminate some peeps from the equation

Ihedinobi:
3. In summary, the Christian is not merely a label, he's a particular type of species and you must judge him accordingly. The Church is the whole species, that is, the universal set of every person bearing the Nature or Name of Jesus Christ. For this reason, she's called CATHOLIC. She's not identifiable to any eyes but Christ's. Her effect may be perceived but her nature is always hidden. She will only truly be revealed when her Groom comes for her. At that time, the salt will be "precipitated" out of the earth. (It's not really like that, but it's the easiest way to explain it.) There is only one Church, it is catholic in nature; there is only one type of Christian: the man with Jesus's "dna".

My initial question was a response to the comment "the Roman Catholic Church is not the catholic Church." All i wanted from Enigma was clarification on the peeps or organization that makes up the catholic church cos i see lot of arguments here bout which denomination or group is the true Church.

Summary of what i read here is that the catholic church is not Enigma international fellowship, it is not Ihedinobi ministries or Zikkyy Inc, it is those peeps within any of these three organizations possessing Jesus "dna" abi? at the same time the catholic church is Enigma International fellowship + Ihedinobi Ministries + Zikkyy Inc, because within each of these organizations i believe you will find more than two peeps with Jesus "dna" (unless you want to do away with names). Please correct me if i did not interpret correctly. I don't think i have problem with this.

Enigma:
So as far as I'm concerned I know of only ONE Church; the Christian Church. When I say 'catholic Church', I mean the universal Church. The Church which has Jesus Christ as its head. It really knows no "denominations" and "abominations". It comprises of all (as many) as have received Him and who He has thus given powers to become the children of God; see John 1:12.

But in a situation where the 'many that received him' (A.K.A God's children) begin to fight over ownership or inheritance, i wonder what God would do.

alexleo: [b][/b]

yeah its my sincere advise to them because what they are currently practicing now is from the pit of hell. worshiping any image is satanic. praying through Mary is satanic. The message of purgatory and praying for the dead to be forgiven and taken to heaven is satanic. They need the message of salvation. They need the sound word of God and not the rubbish they are practicing now. The charismatic is a group in catholic that realised the junk they are practicing and decided to do away with them and started preaching the sound word of salvation thats why i said they should join the group since its also a catholic group. I didnt mean that the group is the only place where sound word for making heaven is preached. My church is preaching the sound word and any day they stop i ll leave them. I dont need cheap word. I want the hard truth of God's word.

if praying through Mary is satanic that means Mary is Satanic so also is her offspring. Then christendom= satan worship, i don't know just saying. Christians = enemies of fellow christians , can't believe i am one. Whatever happen to do not judge seems to be in them verses.

Dr young: if praying through Mary is satanic that means Mary is Satanic so also is her offspring. Then christendom= satan worship, i don't know just saying. Christians = enemies of fellow christians , can't believe i am one. Whatever happen to do not judge seems to be in them verses.

Seems you dont read your bible. Did Jesus ask you to pray through Mary? Read John 14:13,14. Did the apostles pray through Mary? Read the book of acts 3:6. The name of Jesus remains the highest for every true christian. Read Philipians 2:9. Anything that you do which is contrary to the bible is a satanic act. Get it right.

I pray through Jesus and believe in love your neighbour. But you do not get to decide what is satanic or not cos you are not the great judge. Leave the catholics alone. Meanwhile do you believe everything in the bible?

italo: @ Truthislight,

The early Church was the Catholic Church so all the apostles were Catholic. It was only to differentiate the Church from some heretics also calling themselves "church" (as we have today) that they started using the word "Catholic" to distinguish. So the Church wrote the NT, that's why they had the authority to compile and arrange the Bible. There were many books that the Catholic Church did not include in the NT. Why would they have the authority to choose which is scripture and which is not if they didn't write scripture?

The books of Mark and Luke nowhere state that Mark and Luke were the authors or that they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. How do you then know this? Because the Catholic Church told you. Why do you believe them? Because the Church is infallible. Why is it infallible? Because it is guided by the Holy Spirit so cannot teach error.

desperation!

Is the word Catholic in the bible?

What has that to do with the apostles?

Keep deceiving yourself.

There is nothing that RCC will not do to keep people in bondage and blind them to the truth of God's word as contained in the bible by dilutting its efficacy.

The NT are the words and writtings of the apostles, what has that to do with RCC "gave us the NT" (bible) ?
*sigh*

keep deceiving your self.