There is no doubt in the minds of the rightly guided Ahlus Sunnah in regards to the great qualities of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). We ask Allah Almighty to accept him into the Highest Ranks of Paradise with the Prophets and Messengers of Allah. Anyone who denies the greatness of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) is deviant, and has gone away from the accepted creed of the Ahlus Sunnah. There is not a single reputable scholar of the Ahlus Sunnah that has ever said otherwise.

Having said this, true Muslims must not take part in the Shia rituals on the day of Ashura. Although we recognize that the death of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) was a tragic event, it is a Bidah (evil innovation to Islam) to commemorate his death because the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) did not do so. How could the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) comemmorate his death when the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) himself died many years before the death of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه)?

Additionally–and this point cannot be stressed enough–there were many Sahabah who were killed in the Path of Allah, but the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) never mourned their deaths in the manner in which the Shia mourn Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). The Prophet lost his own dear uncle, his own wife, and many of his dearest companions, but do we see that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) ever resorted to self-flagellation or excessive mourning? The Shia can never provide such an example from the life of the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم), probably not even from Shia sources. Therefore, we find that it is not part of the Sunnah to mourn in such an uncivilized manner and we shall never take part in it because of this.

The Reason Sunnis (aka Bakris) Do Not Commemorate Imam Hussain's (as) Martyrdom


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbqCPOwCaI

Shia Muslim Ayatollah Defending Imam Hussain (as),the thrid holy Imam and Grandson of Prophet Muhammad (sa), Against Wahhabi Sunni Cleric


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98bK3V7JNfY

Neither the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) nor his rightly-guided successors (the khulafa’ al-raashidoon) did any of these things on the day of ‘Aashooraa’, they neither made it a day of mourning nor a day of celebration.

all of this is reprehensible bid’ah and is wrong. None of it has anything to do with the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or the way of the Khulafa’ al-Raashidoon. It was not approved of by any of the imaams of the Muslims, not Maalik, not al-Thawri, not al-Layth ibn Sa’d, not Abu Haneefah, not al-Oozaa’i, not al-Shaafa’i, not Ahmad ibn Hanbal, not Ishaaq ibn Raahwayh, not any of the imaams and scholars of the Muslims.

The religion of Islam is based on two principles: that we should worship nothing besides Allaah Alone, and that we should worship Him in the manner that He has prescribed, not by means of bid’ah or reprehensible innovations.
source: http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=4033&ln=eng&txt=ashoora

There have been many other great heroes of Islam who have been killed in the Path of Allah, and we do not find the Ahlus Sunnah comemmorating any of these days. The Ahlus Sunnah does not comemmorate the martyrdom of Umar (رضّى الله عنه), Uthman (رضّى الله عنه), or Ali (رضّى الله عنه). The reason is that we find all this to be Bidah, and forms of exaggeration like the Christians who comemmorate the death of Isa (عليه السلام).

We find it interesting that the Shia do not celebrate the death of Ali (رضّى الله عنه) or any of their other heroes. Ali (رضّى الله عنه) was stabbed to death, and he suffered a horrendous death. So what is the reason that the Shia make such a big deal about the death of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) but not of Ali (رضّى الله عنه)? Ali (رضّى الله عنه) is in fact considered superior to Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) by the Shia. So why the death of Hussain (رضّى الله عنه) and not of Ali (رضّى الله عنه)?

Answer coming up shortly!

fellis:

Naughty.

You guys do not give up!!

The Martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2MsYjagDu0

We Cry for Hussain...So Did the Prophet

Written by Yasser Madani    

Every year, Muslims around the world commemorate the tragedy of Karbala. They attend mourning meetings and processions in which the story of Karbala is retold, lamentations are held and special poetic readers using dramatic techniques and symbolism recite eulogies to mark the events of the day of Ashura. All these commemorative meetings not only serve to convey the events and message of Karbala but also provide opportunities for us to learn about Islam in general.

We commemorate Ashura to symbolise and express our grief and emotions towards the martyrdom of Imam al-Hussain (AS), to keep Imam al-Hussain’s (AS) cause alive in our hearts and to be committed to his cause. Also, we want to extract lessons from the tragedy of Karbala and apply them to our daily lives. We want to pay our condolences to the Holy Prophet (SAW) and the Ahlul Bayt. You might then ask why we don’t commemorate the death of the Holy Prophet (SAW) who has a much higher rank than Imam al-Hussain (AS). The answer to this is that although we do commemorate and mourn the death of the Holy Prophet (SAW), it is the way and circumstance in which Imam al-Hussain (AS) was martyred which makes all the difference, the fact that he was martyred for refusing a government headed by the wretched Yazid, who drank, gambled and indulged in many corrupt practices, the fact that those who savagely slaughtered Imam al-Hussain (AS) called themselves Muslims is what makes us mourn and lament his martyrdom the way we do.

Imagine this, it is afternoon on the day of Ashura. Imam al-Hussain (AS) is standing on the blood-drenched soil of Karbala in the heat of the scorching sun waiting to meet his beloved. His head is wounded and blood is streaming slowly down his holy face soaking his blessed beard. He looks around, searching for members of his family and his companions, only to find them brutally slaughtered and slain like sacrificial lambs, lying there on the ground soaked in blood. He hears the innocent crying and wailing of the children and the women. Tears flow down his holy face. He takes a piece of cloth to wipe the blood from his face, whereupon an archer from the army of Yazid (may Allah’s curse be upon him) shoots a triple-headed arrow, which lodges into Imam al-Hussain’s (AS) heart. He pulls out the arrow causing blood to gush out. The Holy Imam is thirsty, he cries: “O God, I am thirsty”, in the meantime another man approaches and shoots an arrow which thrusts into Imam al-Hussain’s (AS) throat quenching his thirst. Hilal bin Nafi’ was reported as saying: “By God I never saw a person getting killed with his own blood all over his body in a better state than al-Hussain. I was so overwhelmed by the radiance of his face that I refrained from contemplating killing him”. Even when the accursed Shimr approached Imam al-Hussain (AS) to severe his blessed head, he said: “When I approached Hussain ibn Ali and my eyes fell on him, the light of his face so gripped me that I forgot my intention to kill him”. It is reported that when Imam al-Hussain was killed, the sky rained down blood.[1] It has been recorded that Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (AS) has said:

“…For no one the heavens wept for forty days save Yahya and Hussain…” [2]

Show me such a spectacle of human greatness in an event other than Karbala and I will commemorate its memory instead of Karbala! How can someone hear all this and not cry and mourn, even those who are not Muslims shed tears when they hear this tragedy. Even the heavens wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS).[3] Let me ask you a question, if a Muslim cries over the passing away of their own relatives, then how can they not cry over the grandson of the Messenger of Allah (SAW)?

Furthermore, crying for Imam al-Hussain (AS) is considered seeking nearness to Allah (SWT) for the tragedy of Karbala is bound to the great sacrifice which Imam al-Hussain (AS) endured for the sake of Allah (SWT) and for Islam. It is only when your heart is soft and absorbable that you feel the sense of closeness to Allah (SWT). The Holy Qur’an praises crying and those who cry for a legitimate cause. The Holy Qur’an describes many of the Prophets and their followers when they cried, "When the verses of the Most Gracious were recited unto them, they fell down prostrating and weeping" [4]

Furthermore we cry over the martyrdom of Imam al-Hussain (AS) for the Holy Prophet (SAW) wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS) as recorded in many traditions (ahadith):

Ahmed and Ibn al-Dhahhak narrated from Ali (AS): “I entered on the prophet (SAW) and his eyes were flooded, I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, anyone made you angry? Why are your eyes flooded? He said: Gabriel just left me telling me that al-Hussain will be killed by the river Euphrates. He (the Prophet) said: So he (Gabriel) said: Do you want me to let you smell his dirt (from his burial pot)? I said: Yes! He reached with his hand and grabbed and handful of dirt and gave it to me. So I could not help it and my eyes were flooded.” [5]

Ummul Fadhl the daughter of al-Harith said that she entered on the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and she said: “Oh! Messenger of Allah, I saw a strange dream last night. He said: And what is it? She said: It was difficult. He said: And what is it? She said: I saw, as if, a piece of your body was severed and was put in my lap! The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: You saw well - Fatima will give birth, God willing, a boy so he will be in your lap. Then Fatima gave birth to al-Hussain and he was in my lap - just as the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said. So I entered one day on the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and put him in his lap, but I noticed that the eyes of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) pouring tears! So I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, my parents are your ransom, what is with you? He said: Gabriel (AS) came to me and informed me that my nation (ummah) will kill this son of mine.” [6]

Umm Salamah has said: "al-Hussain entered on the Prophet (SAW), while I was sitting at the door, so I saw in the hand of the Prophet (SAW) something he turned over while (Hussain) sleeping on his stomach. I said: Oh messenger of Allah, I looked and saw you turning something over in your hand when the kid was sleeping on your stomach and your tears were pouring? He said: Gabriel came to me with the sand upon which he (Hussain) will be killed. And he informed me that my nation (umma) will kill him." [7]

Ibn Saad, Ali bin Muhammad, Yahya bin Zakariya, a man heard it from 'Amir al-Sha'bi say: "When Ali (as) passed by Karbalaa in his march to Siffien and lined up with Nainawa - a village on the Euphrates - he stopped and called one of them men: Tell aba 'Abdullah (al-Hussain ) what this land is called? He said: Karbala. Then he cried until the earth was wet from his tears. He then said: I entered on the messenger of Allah (s) and he was crying. So I said: What makes you cry? He said: Gabriel was with me, just now, and informed me: that my son al-Hussain will be killed at the banks of Furat in a location called Karbala. Then Gabriel grabbed a handful of dirt and let me smell it. So I could not help it, my eyes overflowed." [8] From this tradition (hadith) we can see that Imam al-Ali (AS) also wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS). There are more traditions showing that the Holy Prophet (SAW) wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS). [9] Umm Salamah, the wife of the Holy Prophet (SAW) also wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS).[10] Even the Jinns mourned Imam al-Hussain (AS)'s death, it has been reported that after Imam al-Hussain (AS)'s martyrdom, Umm Salamah said: "I heard the Jinns mourning for al-Hussain.” [11]

Yet unfortunately there are some Muslims who have claimed that mourning and lamenting the death of Imam al-Hussain (AS) is impermissible and a wrong practice. Ask yourselves this question - if this is so, then why did the Holy Prophet (SAW) mourn the death of Imam al-Hussain (AS)? Some Muslims have even gone to the extent of criticizing the Muslims who commemorate Ashura [12] whilst others have even claimed that this practice is polytheism (shirk) and an innovation (bid'ah). Maybe there are some Muslims who hate to see the remembrance of the Ahlul Bayt.

Notes:

1. Nadra al-Azdiya, a woman who was contemporary with Imam al –Hussain (AS), is said to have reported: “When al-Hussain b. 'Ali was killed, the sky rained down blood, so that next morning we found our wells and water jugs filled with it.” This hadith is narrated by Ibn Hajar.

2. The Holy Qur'an, Aqa Mirza Mahdi Puya, p. 681, pub. Peermohammed Trust (Pakistan). This hadith is recorded under the tafsir of the verse (19:12-15). Aqa Mahdi Puya says that what is meant by “the heavens wept” (in the hadith of Imam as-Sadiq) is that the sun became extraordinarily red.

3. al-Suyuti reports in his commentary on the verse (19:13) describing Allah's compassion towards the ancient martyr John son of Zachariah that “The heavens did not weep for the death of anyone except John son of Zachariah and al-Hussain b. Ali. Its redness [at sunset] is the sign of its weeping”.

4. The Holy Qur'an, (19:58); also refer to (17:109).

5. Thakhaer al-Uqba, Muhibbuldeen al-Tabari, p. 148.

6. al-Mustadrak al-Sahih, al-Hafidh al-Hakim al-Nisapouri, v. 3, p. 176, (al-Hakim said: “This is an authentic hadith (Sahih) on the conditions of Bukhari and Muslim but they did not print it”); Dalael al-Nubouwa, al-Hafidh al-Bayhaqi under the subject of al-Hussain (AS); Cf. Ibn al-A'tham IV, (Hyderabad, 1971), p. 211-2, the author narrates this hadith using a different chain of narration.

7. al-Musannaf, al-Hafidh abu Bakr bin abi Shaibah, v. 12.

8. al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad; al-Musannaf, Ibn Abi Shaibeh, v. 12 (with "Patience aba 'Abdullah, patience aba 'Abdullah" ) ; al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Tabarani, v. 1; Tareekh al-Shamm, Ibn 'Asakir.

9. al-Musnad, Ahmad bin Hanbal, v. 2, p. 60-61; al-Taba'qat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad; al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Hafidh al-Tabarani (on subject of al-Hussain); A'lam al-Nubuwwah, al-Mawardi al-Shafi 'I; Kanz al-Ummal, al-Muttaqi al-Hindi.

10. al-Khasa'is, al-Suyuti al-Shafi'I, 2:125; al-Manaqib, al-Magazili, p. 313; al-Musnad, Ahmad bin Hanbal, 6:294; Tarikh al-Islam, al-Dimishqi, 3:11; al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah, 6:230; al-'Aqd al-Farid, ibn 'Abd Rabbah, 2:219; Kanz al-Ummal, al-Muttaqi al-Hindi; Cf. Ibn al-A'tham IV, 212-4; Sahih al- Tirmidhi; Mishkat al-Masabih, an-Nawawi, English Version, Tradition # 6157.

11. Tarikh al-Kabir, al-Bukhari (author of the famous Sahih), v. 4, Part 1, p. 26; Fadha'il al-Sahaba, Amhmad Ibn Hanbal, v. 2, p. 776, tradition # 1373; Tabarani, v. 3, p.130-1; Tahdhib, v. 7, p.404.

12. Kitab al-Lata'if, Ibn Rajab.
 
http://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=123

fellis:

LOL . . .sunni and shia thing

Why Shias Don't Commemorate Ali r.a Death!

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As indicated earlier, in the history of Islam, there has been many Martyrs, yet the Prophet pbuh never picked up wipes to trash himself, neither did he engage in self beatings. Moreover, the Prophet pbuh also lost his children, wife, companions and believers, but there is no evidence that he did what the shias are doing. Hence we are very clear that neitehr the Qur'an nor the prophet called for commemorating the death of the believers or those who fought and died in the path of Islam, in so doing, he laid what we can call best practices for muslims to follow.

We find it strange that despite the fact Ali r.a was martyr, the shias did not find his death worthy of commemorating, isn't this strange? between the two Ali r.a considered superior . So what is really happening? is Ali r.a death less gruesome than Husayn r.a deaths? You see, all this boils done to playing games with people death, the fact is the death of Ali r.a was caused by the Khariwajies, partisans of Ali r.a who disagreed with the way he was handling the battle against his opponents, were responsible. The shias figured taht commemorating such a death, will have a reverse effect on their propaganda, now they decide to play a fast one, and lay the blame for the death of Husayn squarely on the door steps Yazid, the Big bad sunni.
In other words, they use the commemorating of the death of Husayn r.a has been used by the shais as a sort of propaganda against the followers of teh sunnah of the prophet pbuh.

Commemoratingthe dead is not part of the sunnah of the prophet pbuh. Anything outside taht is biddah.

Soon we will show how another member of the proohet pbuh family died fighting against oppression and yet the branch of lagosshia shia do not commemorate his death!

More shortly.

The Story of Zayd ibn Ali

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Zayd began seeking followers for his revolt, and found support among the people of Kufa in Iraq. Kufa had previously been the capital of his great-grandfather Ali, and the place where his grandfather Husayn also sought support for his own rebellion in 680. Zayd moved to Kufa and spent more than a year among the Arab tribes in the region, gathering further support. The Umayyad governor of Kufa, however, learned of the plot, and commanded the people to gather at the great mosque, locked them inside and began a search for Zayd. Zayd with some troops fought his way to the mosque and called on people to come out. However, in events that echoed Husayn's own abandonment by the Kufans decades earlier, the bulk of Zayd's supporters deserted him and joined the Umayyads, leaving Zayd with only a few dozen outnumbered followers.

Accounts differ slightly on the circumstances of the desertion. Sunni sources attribute the desertion to Zayd's refusal to speak ill of the first two Caliphs, Abu Bakr and Umar, who most Shi'a regard as usurpers. Zaydi sources on the other hand attribute it to Zayd's refusal to acknowledge the authority of his nephew, Ja'far al-Sadiq (the sixth Imam according to the Twelver Shi'ites). In both accounts, Zayd bitterly scolds the "rejectors" (Rafidha) who desert him, an appellation used by some Sunnis to describe non-Zaydi Shi'ites to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaidi_Revolt

Now, why don't the shias commemorate the death of prophet pbuh great grand son?

let see what he meant Imam Jafar says about him,

Imam Jafar Sadiq's love for his uncle Zayd ibn Ali was immense. Upon receiving and reading the letter of Zayd ibn Ali's death he broke down and cried uncontrollably, and proclaimed aloud:
“ From God we are and to Him is our return. I ask God for my reward in this calamity. He was a really good uncle. My uncle was a man for our world and for our Hereafter. I swear by God that my uncle is a martyr just like the martyrs who fought along with God’s Prophet (s) or Ali (s) or Al-Hassan (s) or Al-Hussein(s) ”

—Uyun Akhbar al-Reza- The Source of Traditions on Imam Ali ar-Ridha

so what stop the shias from commemorating his death? We see that their tears for Husayn is nothing more than crocodile tears!


Imam Ali ar-Ridha spoke of him respectfully:
“ ..he (Zayd bin Ali) was one of the scholars from the Household of Muhammad and got angry for the sake of the Honorable the Exalted God. He fought with the enemies of God until he got killed in His path. My father Musa ibn Ja'far narrated that he had heard his father Ja'far ibn Muhammad say, "May God bless my uncle Zayd...He consulted with me about his uprising and I told him, "O my uncle! Do this if you are pleased with being killed and your corpse being hung up from the gallows in the al-Konasa neighborhood." After Zayd left, As-Sadiq said, "Woe be to those who hear his call but do not help him!".

It seems the shias have a knack for betraying the prophets descendants may Allah be pleased with them!


So we see, this people reduce the struggles of Imam Husayn r.a to propaganda and pretence! more to come shortly!

The Shia mark the martyrdom of the Prophet (sa),the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as),and even that of prominent scholars.the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) is given emphasis because of the significance of Ashura as foretold by the Prophet (sa) and the magnanimity of the tragedy that occurred.for instance Imam Ali (as) was martyred by Abdul-Rahman Ibn Muljam (la) and that serves as a single incident.the killer was arrested and punished.Imam Ali (as) was among his people.what happened to Imam Hussain (as) was a tragic event.it was not an incident.it was an event with time and place and also history and details we can learn from.Imam Hussain (as),his faithful Shia followers numbering not up to 100 and his household members were martyred by an organized army of thousands by the order of Yazeed (la).Imam Hussain (as,the only grandson of the Prophet (sa) alive,was beheaded by the order of Yazeed (la) who claimed to be "the successor of the Prophet".it is our duty as by the Quran to love the Ahlul-Bayt (as),who Imam Hussain (as) is part of.we are also to abide by and obey the Ahlul-Bayt (as) alongside the Quran as we are commanded by the Prophet (sa) in the "Hadith of the Two Weighty Things".the atmosphere which led to the beheading of the Prophet's (sa) grandson didn't suddenly start with Yazeed.and this is the reason Sunnis want to avoid the tragedy of Karbala and shut this chapter.the Ahlul-Bayt (as) were not given their right and honor right from the first Sunni caliph,abu bakr, with the issues of "Saqifa Banu Saeda" and "Fadak";and also the subsequent caliphs.so such an atmosphere where the Prophet's (sa) grandson and family can be massacred brings those Sunnis honor into disrepute and questioning for laying the ground work of the caliphate that can lead to such tragedy.

Earlier,an article was posted where it was shown that even the Prophet (sa) cried and shed tears for Imam Hussain (as).therefore crying for Imam Hussain (as) and feeling sad is Sunnah.remembering the martyrs too is sunnah as I will shortly show.for something to be "bid'ah",it must be haram (forbidden).how can anyone call the rememberance of the Prophet's (sa) household "bid'ah"?

To remember the Martyrs is not only the Sunnah of Prophet(s) but also the practice of Sahaba

Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya, Volume 4 page 45, published Beirut:

It is narrated by Abu Hurariah(r) that the Prophet(s) used to visit the graves of martyrs every year. When He(s) would reach the entrance of the mountain, He(s) would say (to the martyrs): ‘Asalam alailekum Bima Sabartum’. This means ‘peace be on you due to your patience and you have reached a pleasant place due to this.’ Then after Prophet(s), Abu Bakar also used to come (every year), and after him Umar used to do the same and then Usman also did the same”

The Shias have a calendar of commemorations that is far more expansive than we know. They celebrate so many events (of course, always based on injustice) that there is no way deep-seated hatred will not flow from their hearts towards sunnis

Yet, I was not there!

Take a look

http://www.jaffari.org/resources/islamic_calendar.asp

tbaba1234: You guys do not give up!!

Christians have now cottoned on, asking these questions

honeychild: Then what about the beliefs expressed in some of your hadiths that the Quran you have now is not the complete Quran? That fully two thirds of your Holy Book is missing?

I think we should consider who has been artfully, assiduously and insidiously working to undermine Sunnis

Death of Zayd fore told by teh prophet pbuh according to shia source

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The prophet once looked at Zayd ibn Harithah, cried, and said "The martyr in the sake of Allah, The crucified of my people, The oppressed from my progeny, his name is thus." Then the prophet pointed at Zayd ibn Harithah and said "Come closer to me, your name became more dear to me because it is the same as my dear child (Zaid.)"[1]

Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"


Yet the shias literally would never want to commemorate his death the same way they self multilate during Ashura every year, is Ali r.a less important than Husayn that his death is not worthy to be remembered or is Zayd less worthy even though the Prophet pbuh prophecised his death? all of a sudden in shia it becomes haram to commemorate the death of Ali r.a, zayd and a host of other great heroes of Islam. Why? Because they milk the death of the Husayn r.a for propaganda purpose, how pathetic indeed the condition of this people, they fool none save themselves, remembering the is different from matam, only one dishonest will confuse the two!

BetaThings: The Shias have a calendar of commemorations that is far more expansive than we know. They celebrate so many events (of course, always based on injustice) that there is no way deep-seated hatred will not flow from their hearts towards sunnis

Yet, I was not there!

Take a look

http://www.jaffari.org/resources/islamic_calendar.asp

That is unfortunately the wrong notion existing among Sunnis.

Honoring the Ahlul-Bayt (as) or commemorating Imam Hussain's (as) martyrdom got nothing to do with hatred against Sunnis,even though Yazeed claimed ascended the thrown of the Sunni caliphate Sunnis have come out to disassociate themselves from Yazeed,and honor Imam Hussain (as),who is the grandson of Prophet Muhammad (sa).the Sunnis who feel threatened by the Shia commemorating Ashura or reviving the memory of any member of the Prophet's (sa) Ahlul-Bayt (as), are those deceived by hateful anti-Shia websites that Vedaxcool for instance copy and paste from.otherwise understanding into the significance and meaning of Ashura and the Ahlul-Bayt (as) particularly Imam Hussain (as) should unify Muslims.Ashura can either unite or divide us depending on our choice.how many Sunnis today know that it was the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (as) in Karbala that preserved Islam,its practices and beliefs from the grip of the un-Islamic tyrant calling himself "caliph of the Prophet" who used to permit drinking and praying,calling adhan when he feels,practicing sodomy,etc? When a Sunni understands the event of Karbala and the worth to Islam of Imam Hussain's (as) martyrdom,we will be closer to one another,insha'Allah!

BetaThings:

Christians have now cottoned on, asking these questions


I think we should consider who has been artfully, assiduously and insidiously working to undermine Sunnis

And to some the best response is to keep quite!

we know Lagosshioa, hardly understand what ever action shias take, you simply follow follow with out asking question, Imagine beating your self and itting your chest without any wisdom it, when a shia undrstands that religion was perfected during teh life time of teh prophet then he will know he is onthe right path! may Allah guide them to true guidiance!
Lagosshia you once ask what is the punishment of one who rejects his Imam, we ask what is your view on Zayd who considered himself the real Imam rather than the one you actually follow, (Muhammed Ibn Husayn)? you see what we mean by crocodile tears?

vedaxcool:

And to some the best response is to keep quite!

One of the reasons I have never opened a thread to highlight some of their actions.
You will recall that it was in Ramadan when we are encouraged to speak only good words and avoid bickering that LagosShia deemed it fit to open a thread to rubbish sunnis
It is tinsel humility that we see periodically!

LagosShia:

That is unfortunately the wrong notion existing among Sunnis.

Honoring the Ahlul-Bayt (as) or commemorating Imam Hussain's (as) martyrdom got nothing to do with hatred against Sunnis,even though Yazeed claimed ascended the thrown of the Sunni caliphate Sunnis have come out to disassociate themselves from Yazeed,and honor Imam Hussain (as),who is the grandson of Prophet Muhammad (sa).the Sunnis who feel threatened by the Shia commemorating Ashura or reviving the memory of any member of the Prophet's (sa) Ahlul-Bayt (as), are those deceived by hateful anti-Shia websites that Vedaxcool for instance copy and paste from.otherwise understanding into the significance and meaning of Ashura and the Ahlul-Bayt (as) particularly Imam Hussain (as) should unify Muslims.Ashura can either unite or divide us depending on our choice.how many Sunnis today know that it was the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (as) in Karbala that preserved Islam,its practices and beliefs from the grip of the un-Islamic tyrant calling himself "caliph of the Prophet" who used to permit drinking and praying,calling adhan when he feels,practicing sodomy,etc? When a Sunni understands the event of Karbala and the worth to Islam of Imam Hussain's (as) martyrdom,we will be closer to one another,insha'Allah!

But if I fast on the day of Ashura, I hate Hussain (RA)?
Is that the only way we can educate people? We are not Christians!
We know about all the miscreants that have shed the blood of great Muslim heroes, but that is not by commemorating their death!
We know about Hijra because we educate people

I have no problem with rightly crediting heroes of Islam with their deeds, particularly families of the Prophet (PBUH)
I was brought up with my dad telling me very profound stories of the vast knowledge, understanding and logic that Allah blessed Ali (RA) with. So I am not a stranger to his virtues, attributes and aptitude
But we are Sunnis and we would not cross the line
We don't commemorate the death of anyone

Both Hassan (RA) and Ali (RA) were murdered. So why single out Hussain (RA? Yes, the incident of Karbala was a perfidious massacre, but there is no need to single them out
A lot of muslims had perished in the hands of traitors before Hussain (RA) and his family members
May Allah reward all of them adequately
and guide and Forgive those of us still living

vedaxcool: we know Lagosshioa, hardly understand what ever action shias take, you simply follow follow with out asking question, Imagine beating your self and itting your chest without any wisdom it, when a shia undrstands that religion was perfected during teh life time of teh prophet then he will know he is onthe right path! may Allah guide them to true guidiance!

Aside from how you began your post,I can to an extent conclude you want to know something here.I think it would be more useful to investigate and hold meaningful dialogue instead of bickering and opening threads to provoke others with copy/paste from hate websites.only dialogue can either convince you or me.so all the attempts to insult,provoke and attack will not work.instead it would only produce fiercer counterattacks.

You have already concluded that every Shia must beat his chest and hit his cheeks before one can commemorate Ashura.that is not correct.you don't even know whether I beat myself or not.and even at that,if you're to do it,you must do it lightly.the message of Ashura goes beyond beating your chest.beating your chest is a symbolic way of expressing grief as can be found in authentic hadiths of companions doing at momemts of grief or sadness.whether you decide to frown,cry,beat your chest lightly in symbolism,commemorating Ashura have to do with reviving the message of justice and truth against tyranny and oppression that Imam Hussain (as) stood for and Islam to this day stands for.whether I beat my chest or not to symbolize my grief would not make me more or less a Shia even though it is not haram.beating your chest is not obligatory the way sujood (prostration) in salat is.so the objective of Ashura is not to beat your chest but to commemorate Ashura,honor the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and revive the message of Islam,however way within the limits of Islam you choose to do that.it is undeniable that the day of Ashura is a sad day that made our Prophet (sa) shed tears on in four different occasions as recorded.therefore do not expect us if we claim to be followers of Muhammad (sa) to ignore this day as if nothing happened or not to be sad ourselves.it is not a happy day.we can't be happy about a day that made our Prophet (sa) shed tears and weep,and in which his blood and flesh were spilled and cut respectively in Karbala.

Regarding the completion of religion,you have to discover that the religion as stated in Quran 5:3 was perfected and that verse revealed after verse 5:67 when the Prophet (sa) appointed Imam Ali (as) at Ghadir Khumm and the imamate of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) commenced.our affinity to the "rope of Allah",the Quran and Ahlul-Bayt (as),is borne out of following the perfect and complete religion,which is Islam.you cannot know why I do or say certain things by visiting hate websites.likewise a christian can never appreciate Islam or the holy Prophet (sa) by visiting missionary or hateful anti-islam websites.

I am not asking you to believe all I'm saying and I'm not seeking to convince you to take it for truth.all I'm saying is find out if what I'm saying holds any truth or ground in Islam.

Lagosshia you once ask what is the punishment of one who rejects his Imam, we ask what is your view on Zayd who considered himself the real Imam rather than the one you actually follow, (Muhammed Ibn Husayn)? you see what we mean by crocodile tears?

First,the fifth holy Imam, is Imam Muhammad Ibn Ali,al-Baqer (as);not Muhammad Ibn Hussain as you mentioned above.

Second Zaid Ibn Ali (as),the brother of Imam Baqer (as),never claimed to be the imam.

Third,Zaid (as) revolted against illegitimate Ummayyad rule to avengle his grandfather,Imam Hussain (as).he never revolted against his brother,who was the righteous imam.after the martyrdom of Zaid (as),it was those among his supporters that believed Zaid (as) and no one else is their imam.there is even the story of a famous classical scholar who changed from "Zaidism" to embrace Imam Ja'fa al-Sadeq (as),the sixth holy imam,and by default accept the imamate of Imam Baqer (as),and came to see that Zaid (as),who was righteous and a great scholar of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) never claimed imamate for himself.

Fourth,Zaid (as) sort the blessings and pleasure of his elder brother,Imam Baqer (as),before his revolt against the Ummayyads.Imam Baqer (as) told him that the outcome look bleak but Zaid (as) insisted to avenge the blood of his grandfather,Imam Hussain (as).jihad is a pillar of Islam and you cannot prevent or forbid one from rising up,even if the approach or method may differ based on time and place.

Fifth,the Shia up to this day hold Zaid (as) in high esteem.our fifth Imam,Imam Muhammad al-Baqer (as) and the sixth Imam,Imam Ja'far Ibn Muhammad,al-Sadeq (as) used to remember Zaid (as).there is a "shrine" in Kufa,Iraq,the heart of Shia land,dedicated to Zaid (as).Zaid (as) is my beloved master and brother of my master and Imam,and son of my masters and Imams (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all).even today many of the Zaidis,who are found in Yemen are turning to Shia Islam of the Twelve holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) foretold by Prophet Muhammad (as).you should find out more about Abdul-Malik al-Houthi,the leader of the Zaidis in Yemen,his relation with Iran and his current ideology and whether he is still Zaidi or have adopted mainstream Shia Islam.

BetaThings:

One of the reasons I have never opened a thread to highlight some of their actions.
You will recall that it was in Ramadan when we are encouraged to speak only good words and avoid bickering that LagosShia deemed it fit to open a thread to rubbish sunnis
It is tinsel humility that we see periodically!

, I do remember his behavior during Ramadhan, he seems to be no different either during Ramadhan or otherwise in his polemics against the followers of the sunnah of the prophet pbuh.! As I have shown, showing inherent contradiction in the shi theology isn't quite difficult, you only need to remind them of the fact that Religion was perfected during the life time Muhammad pbuh!

The death of Imam Ali Zayn ul Abidin triggered the struggle for leadership between his two sons, Muhammad al Baqir and Zayd...Zayd rejected the principle of hereditary succession to the imamat, and asserted his own right to it on the ground that he was better qualified for it, because he fulfilled all the necessary conditions for this purpose including the one that the Imam must rise in revolt against the unjust, oppressive rulers. ”

—Abdul Ali in Islamic dynasties of the Arab East: state and civilization during the later medieval times


Imam Zayd ibn Ali's rebellion became the inspiration for the Zaidiyyah sect. The Zaidiyya school of Shia Islam holds that any learned descendant of Imam's Hasan or Hussain can become an Imam by asserting and fighting for his claim as Zayd Ibn Ali did. They thoroughly reject the notional belief of infallibility of the Imam as well as the belief in divine appointment.[21] By contrast the more later founded Ismaili and Ithna Ashariya Shi'as claimed that the Imam must be divinely appointed, something Zaidis absolutely reject. In fact Zayd himself criticised the validity of the notion of divine appointment, rejecting it completely.

Usool al-Kafi, Volume 1, Kitab al-Hujjah

vedaxcool: The death of Imam Ali Zayn ul Abidin triggered the struggle for leadership between his two sons, Muhammad al Baqir and Zayd...Zayd rejected the principle of hereditary succession to the imamat, and asserted his own right to it on the ground that he was better qualified for it, because he fulfilled all the necessary conditions for this purpose including the one that the Imam must rise in revolt against the unjust, oppressive rulers. ”

—Abdul Ali in Islamic dynasties of the Arab East: state and civilization during the later medieval times


Imam Zayd ibn Ali's rebellion became the inspiration for the Zaidiyyah sect. The Zaidiyya school of Shia Islam holds that any learned descendant of Imam's Hasan or Hussain can become an Imam by asserting and fighting for his claim as Zayd Ibn Ali did. They thoroughly reject the notional belief of infallibility of the Imam as well as the belief in divine appointment.[21] By contrast the more later founded Ismaili and Ithna Ashariya Shi'as claimed that the Imam must be divinely appointed, something Zaidis absolutely reject. In fact Zayd himself criticised the validity of the notion of divine appointment, rejecting it completely.

Usool al-Kafi, Volume 1, Kitab al-Hujjah

Now you will get to see the advice I earlier gave to you.you don't go about on anti-Shia websites copying their imaginations and interpretations,and then come to tell us what we believe.its not done like that.

How can I take seriously the imaginations of "Abdul Ali"? And then after he gave his analysis,he then went on to dishonestly put a Shia reference from Usul al-Kafi underneath.that is dubious because the unsuspecting may think the analysis as it appears from the imaginations of Abdul Ali (whoever he may be) is found verbatim in Usul al-Kafi.

Zaid (as) never contended for leadership or divine imamate.his motive was simply to revolt,something which Imam Baqer (as) adviced him not to because the result would not be promising.and it turned out to be very sad as Zaid (as) was martyred in a very sad way and his body hung for years and finally burnt and disposed into the air.the Umayyads wanted to prevent his burial site from becoming another symbol against their tyranny as Imam Hussain's (as) became.

If what the Zaidis believe in is recorded in our book,that doesn't make it the view of Zaid (as) himself.before Zaid (as) revolted he never was an imam or claimed to be or was seen as one.that could be seen when he sort his brother's advice.if he claimed to be the imam himself,he wouldn't seek anyone's advice in the manner which he did.also how many days (talkless of years) did Zaid (as) spend with his supporters to teach them all that his supporters most of whom were also killed,got their beliefs? The state of those who declared themselves Zaidis became a sad one,when they had no one to call their imam.as a matter of necessity,they hold therefore that anyone could become imam so long as he is descended from Imam Ali (as) and Sayyida Fatima (as).the basis of imamate in Shia Islam have nothing to do with heredity.the analysis you presented is incorrect because the Zaidis mistook it for heredity while mainstream Shia Islam hold imamate as evident in the Quran in the case of Prophet Ibrahim (as),to be a station or office or institution to be divine appointment.God chose for instance the line of Abraham (as) and made them prophets and imams part of divine decree,approval,appointment and choice.this is in the Quran.yet still when Ibrahim (as) as reported in the Quran when given the position of divine imamate,if his offspring would also be imams,God as reported in the Quran replied that the "wrong doers" among his offspring will not be included to this station.

The commencement of imamate,after Prophet Muhammad (sa),as all Shia believe and Zaidis too hold,relates to the appointment by the Prophet (sa) of Imam Ali (as).then Imam Hassan (as).then Imam Hussain (as).at this point Muhammad Ibn Hanafiyyah (ra),a son of Imam Ali (as) did claim to be the imam instead of Imam Ali Ibn al-Hussain,Zainul Abidin (as).al-Hanafiyyah thought imamate is based on age and birth,so he should succed his brother,Imam Hussain (as).but Imam Zainul Abidin (as) in an event proved to his uncle he was the appointed imam and not his uncle.Zaidis believe in Imam Zainul Abidin (as),Zaid's father.so this event proves imamate is by appointment and not heredity where any son of Imam Ali (as) or descendant can claim it.further insight into the state of the Zaidis would reveal why they resorted to seeking any descendant of Imam Ali (as) as their imam.had Zaid (as) claimed imamate truly,we won't hesistate to oppose that notion.but he never did.his supporters thought he was.

LagosShia:
you don't even know whether I beat myself or not.and even at that,if you're to do it,you must do it lightly.the message of Ashura goes beyond beating your chest.beating your chest is a symbolic way of expressing grief as can be found in authentic hadiths of companions doing at momemts of grief or sadness.whether you decide to frown,cry,beat your chest lightly in symbolism,commemorating Ashura have to do with reviving the message of justice and truth against tyranny and oppression that Imam Hussain (as) stood for and Islam to this day stands for.whether I beat my chest or not to symbolize my grief would not make me more or less a Shia even though it is not haram.beating your chest is not obligatory the way sujood (prostration) in salat is.so the objective of Ashura is not to beat your chest but to commemorate Ashura,honor the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and revive the message of Islam

Even Goebbels will marvel at the masterful talent for prevarication being displayed here
President Jonathan needs YOU!

LagosShia:
I am not asking you to believe all I'm saying and I'm not seeking to convince you to take it for truth.all I'm saying is find out if what I'm saying holds any truth or ground in Islam.

Pinch of salt

BetaThings:
Even Goebbels will marvel at the masterful talent for prevarication being displayed here
President Jonathan needs YOU!


Pinch of salt

I'd take that as compliment