I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.

I have seen on Nairaland land how some are hostile to people who escaped marital abuse,and their arguments are based on ambiguous religious grounds because I am yet to get a concrete explanation for their stance.

They say divorce is against the will of god,and it is a dishonor to ones marriage vows. So I have two questions for the house

1.What is god's will for an abused spouse?
2.Are marriage vows traditional,cultural or religious things?

Please no attack on anyone,if you don't agree with someones view,politely state your points.The floor is open!

I have been waiting for this thread to open instead of posting my reply on Debrief's thread(Too much tension there ), I was told it's a cultural thing not Biblical......I'm still on a mission tho...I will get to the bottom of this with bible verses to band it...

I had a long convo with 3 different pastors from 3 different denomination (Naija churches excluded cos of sentiments)

and I think next time I will rather have a paper and a pen to write points down instead of voice recording the convo....contd

And No It is not God's will for any human to go thru abuse of any kind (Physical or emotional).....BUT it now depends on what my fellow people considered as abuse because GOD doesn't want a failed marriage(quoting the priests not me o), some people are tired of their marriage they said they are being abused instead of working on it, contd

Nice topic, my take is this, i think god's concern is one doing his will and living to fulfill his or her purpose...now if a spouse is being abused in a marriage, d person should find out whether he/she is in god's will in d very first place. Again, in as much as god's word says god hates divorce, but wisdom remains a defence! So there's a time to quit d marriage if it be d only option especially when d union was wrong from d begining. Aside all these, its important for one to define what he/she refers to as abuse...a situation where one defies marital principles and gets punished for dt shouldn't warrant a cry and push for divorce rather, such should make amendments.
God's will for d abused partner is to seek solace in him and not to revenge but to love d partner unconditionally even while awaiting his judgement on dt spouse and trusting him to judge right...this is simple and difficult considering a lot of factors but dt's his will...it sometimes sounds foolish...
Talking about marriage vow, its cultural that is man-made. There's no laid down vow and dt's y it seemed to differ in various denominations.

Na wah for this incessant onslaught of God/Bible/Church witchhunting galore abi na jamboree, wey dey permeate this atmosphere of late, hmmm. If this is indeed a genuine from-the-heart-matter, why pit people against each other to blaspheme and why is this not in the Religion section!!!


Anyway keep going, no knowledge is wasted, I am sure someone would pull out a verse from the Bible soon to support the motion that marriage vows is Biblical, and then your wish for your almighty tingod to be dragged on the floor would start to be granted with comments such as "a drunk must have written the Bible" or "God is wicked", etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.


Don't mind me and my musing biko, carry go like I said...

A

Busy_body:

Na wah for this incessant onslaught of God/Bible/Church witchhunting galore abi na jamboree, wey dey permeate this atmosphere of late, hmmm. If this is indeed a genuine from-the-heart-matter, why pit people against each other to blaspheme and why is this not in the Religion section!!!


Anyway keep going, no knowledge is wasted, I am sure someone would pull out a verse from the Bible soon to support the motion that marriage vows is Biblical, and then your wish for your almighty tingod to be dragged on the floor would start to be granted with comments such as "a drunk must have written the Bible" or "God is wicked", etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.


Don't mind me and my musing biko, carry go like I said...

Don't get it wrong ok,i am not trying to cause a war here. I am trying to find an answer why divorce as a result of persistent abuse will be against the will of god,or is being in an abusive relationship a proof of obedience to the vow or god's word..I don't think the vow is a death sentence or abuse sentence where once you are in there is no way out.

isn't there a separation between what god is saying about marriage and the vows made at the alter?Aren't there conditions whether acknowledge or not that keeps or annuls the vow?Please this is not a war thread, i believe it will help someone out there, may be this is the time for people who kick against divorce on all grounds to make their points.

I don't want to put this on the religion room,i want a balance view on this subject.
CC,jenny,debrief e.t.c i'd love hear your views on this,I am searching for a balance.

ATMC: Nice topic, my take is this, i think god's concern is one doing his will and living to fulfill his or her purpose...now if a spouse is being abused in a marriage, d person should find out whether he/she is in god's will in d very first place. Again, in as much as god's word says god hates divorce, but wisdom remains a defence! So there's a time to quit d marriage if it be d only option especially when d union was wrong from d begining. Aside all these, its important for one to define what he/she refers to as abuse...a situation where one defies marital principles and gets punished for dt shouldn't warrant a cry and push for divorce rather, such should make amendments.
God's will for d abused partner is to seek solace in him and not to revenge but to love d partner unconditionally even while awaiting his judgement on dt spouse and trusting him to judge right...this is simple and difficult considering a lot of factors but dt's his will...it sometimes sounds foolish...
Talking about marriage vow, its cultural that is man-made. There's no laid down vow and dt's y it seemed to differ in various denominations.

so you mean someone in an abusive relationship should wait on god until he does something and what happens to those who never made it out?

My Dear, I saw your thread but resisted the urge to comment because it is a great thread and I don't want it turned to something else.
Don't you know that as soon as Debrief, Jenny and Madam CC comment even without mentioning Divorce, Cabal hunters pounce and make a once great post to become cabal and anti cabal debate.
As I said I have found no Biblical basis for the vow, it is something the church introduced, I found no basis for the "till death do you part" part of the vows, mostly just traditional, howver does that mean people should marry and divorce at will? No, that was what Jesus and even God frowned at, Men of Isear marry and divorce as soon as they saw someonw else or were tired of their spouses. It was based on that Jesus said don't divore except there is a clear case of adultery.
True people will abuse provisions but it is not the will of God for anyone to be a dead spouse than a surviving Divorce.

9lifes:

Don't get it wrong ok,i am not trying to cause a war here. I am trying to find an answer why divorce as a result of persistent abuse will be against the will of god,or is being in an abusive relationship a proof of obedience to the vow or god's word..I don't think the vow is a death sentence or abuse sentence where once you are in there is no way out.

isn't there a separation between what god is saying about marriage and the vows made at the alter?Aren't there conditions whether acknowledge or not that keeps or annuls the vow?Please this is not a war thread, i believe it will help someone out there, may be this is the time for people who kick against divorce on all grounds to make their points.

I don't want to put this on the religion room,i want a balance view on this subject.
CC,jenny,debrief e.t.c i'd love hear your views on this,I am searching for a balance

Haha, shebi I said carry go, nothing do you, you will get the balance you crave very soon, and when you get those nasty odious comments deriding your god's will, go and bank it for safekeeping so you can cash it at Heaven's gate. So again, carry go biko. All I know is that if your "intent" was genuine, you would know where to take this. Funny that you think the volatile Religion section with its fair share of nutjobs and fruitcake atheists is not "balanced"

chaircover: Ameboooooooooooooo!!!!! AKA Big bumper, idi oro, iri arere, idi mangoro, idi ape, idi shin, idi ayunre, idi oro ati be be lo

Ha another kpekusing expert finally coming up for breath from under the sheets

Na wa for you girls ooooooooo! I neva see JK too since last year

Sha welcome back. I dey vex sha! you are never here when needed

sha gba kiss bee bee

Abegi oh, I no be amebo o biko mba nunu, before dem come do mistaken identity again dey attack us for alledgedly wanting to steal there in-the-land-of-the-blind-one-eyed-husband-is-king-husband, nuff said by the way who goes bby such mundane uninspiring silly name such as amebono1 ehn


Ehn you mean JK has been gone a year meaning she has been doing it consistently since one year, what she gets I want, so I am coming Mrs Chaircover, see you soon (sometimes around 2017) I must get my own fill of Mr Sagallolly too

Long Suffering is one of the fruits of the spirit

It is certainly religious. If it was Traditional, Amadihoha, Sango, Shokpona, Orunmila, Ayilalah and the remaining would have long struck down some partners due to their infidelity and criminal acts in their marriages.

They are more religious than traditional. Marriage vows are paraphrases of God's command about marriage that husbands should love their wives, wives must submit to their husbands, the two must never separate etc God values his word more than you marriage vows. If you try to sustain your marriage with your vows, chances are you will fail, but if the word and command of God is the pillar beneath your marriage, it'll last forever.

Religion breeds ignorance a lot of times.

Marriage existed before religion. Were our ancestors not married before christianity or islam? Our forefdathers got married with their traiditonal customs-somr religious, some not.

Marriage vows are not religious per se. Anyone can choose their vows in a civil marriage.

However, the most common vows used are the standard catholic (or versions of it) because of its popularity from films in popular culture.

The catholic vows did not come from the bible but from catholic tradition.

Desperate ladies are commenting....

I am unashamedly anti-divorce. Separation for adultery? Yes. But divorce and remarriage? NEVER
The vows are religious. And even if it wasn't clearly spelt out in the Bible, a vow is a vow. Ever heard of swearing to your own hurt but not changing your words.
God keeps His promises to us and He expects us to keep the promises we make to others.

Now where is the vow in the Bible
1. Rom 7: 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
If this is not "Till death do you part" I don't know what is.
2. Eph 5: 28 men to love their wives ......but nourisheth and cherisheth it
Doesn't this sound " promise to love, cherish and protect "

In this adulterous era, people are making fun of everything godly. And they can have a field day; marrying and divorcing at will. But that doesn't make them right. It seems as if people are looking for every reason to quit their marriages. If they had the understanding that marriage is for life, and that no adulterer will enter heaven, they will give some thoughts before hopping into a relationship that they plan to hop out of at the slighest sign of trouble.

TCD: Long Suffering is one of the fruits of the spirit

please what is long suffering?

salt 1: I am unashamedly anti-divorce. Separation for adultery? Yes. But divorce and remarriage? NEVER
The vows are religious. And even if it wasn't clearly spelt out in the Bible, a vow is a vow. Ever heard of swearing to your own hurt but not changing your words.
God keeps His promises to us and He expects us to keep the promises we make to others.

Now where is the vow in the Bible
1. Rom 7: 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
If this is not "Till death do you part" I don't know what is.
2. Eph 5: 28 men to love their wives ......but nourisheth and cherisheth it
Doesn't this sound " promise to love, cherish and protect "


In this adulterous era, people are making fun of everything godly. And they can have a field day; marrying and divorcing at will. But that doesn't make them right. It seems as if people are looking for every reason to quit their marriages. If they had the understanding that marriage is for life, and that no adulterer will enter heaven, they will give some thoughts before hopping into a relationship that they plan to hop out of at the slighest sign of trouble.

Vows have conditions,people change and what happens when a partner stops loving..then the other should hope and stay right?Don't your think your explanation of that scripture is isolated and distorted?And what does the bible say about marital abuse?

In my own opinion, i think d vow is much closer to traditional than religious. I think its just to follow protocol, so dt there will not be an excuse or room for divorce, if d vow is not included, couples may just be getting divorce based on flimsy and ingenuine excuses, so to make d marriage more honourable and stable,d vow was introduced, and since it has now been seen that, it has a positive effect, has now been ever since included.

That been said, i think d islamic marriage do not include d vow, its only d xtianity and registry marriage that follow d tradition of d vow, which emphasises that its more of traditional than religion, because, if its religious, d islamic religion will also include d vow in their own marriage too.
Conclusively, d vow is traditional, it is used to curtail d excess of an erring partner, and it seems working to a large extent.

9lifes:

Vows have conditions,people change and what happens when a partner stops loving..then the other should hope and stay right?Don't your think your explanation of that scripture is isolated and distorted?And what does the bible say about marital abuse?

Vows have conditions, right. The vow of marriage has one condition: "binding till death".
If you realise how long it will last, then you will take care before plunging into it. And if you have already contracted it, you live with the results of the decisions you have taken.

You see, this discussion reminds me of when Jesus and His followers had a similar discussion on marriage,
Matt 19: 9 " whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth committeth adultery
V12: He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

That is God's standard and He's not lowering it for anybody's sake.
Unless, of course, you have no intention of meeting Him in heaven

It depends on where u said ur vows,if it was in a church or a religous gathering it is definitely religous because the vow is made b4 God the authur of marriage. The bible says a man shall leave his father and mother and join with his wife and they shall bkom ONE. If u are a true and good christain then u cannot be decieved by anybody not even a so called man of God bkos u kow ur BIBLE. Any answa u want just go and read ur bible and ask God 4 undastanding. I laugh wen xtains say d issue of marriage and divorce is confusing to them. Simply go to the book of mattew read it thorougly where jesus christ explianed d issue of marriage and divorce. In a pure christain marriage divorce is not an option so shine ur eyes b4 u go altar

salt 1:

Vows have conditions, right. The vow of marriage has one condition: "binding till death".
If you realise how long it will last, then you will take care before plunging into it. And if you have already contracted it, you live with the results of the decisions you have taken.

You see, this discussion reminds me of when Jesus and His followers had a similar discussion on marriage,
Matt 19: 9 " whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth committeth adultery
V12: He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

That is God's standard and He's not lowering it for anybody's sake.
Unless, of course, you have no intention of meeting Him in heaven

u are on POINT

salt 1:

Vows have conditions, right. The vow of marriage has one condition: "binding till death".
If you realise how long it will last, then you will take care before plunging into it. And if you have already contracted it, you live with the results of the decisions you have taken.

You see, this discussion reminds me of when Jesus and His followers had a similar discussion on marriage,
Matt 19: 9 " whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth committeth adultery
V12: He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

That is God's standard and He's not lowering it for anybody's sake.
Unless, of course, you have no intention of meeting Him in heaven

You did not answer my question.What did the bible say about marital abuse?

9lifes:

You did not answer my question.What did bible say about marital abuse?

Why did you single out marital abuse? What of not finding your partner sexually appealing? Or quarrelling with your mother-in-law? Or her not respecting you because you became broke?

Any EXCUSE (because that is what they are) for ending a marriage should be weighed against the backdrop of the Bible. That is, if you believe in the God of the Bible in the first place. If you don't accept the Bible standard, go and look for another accomplice who will tell you your position is ok and not to worry.
But that person won't be me. Relationships aren't easy and can always be worked upon, instead of thrown away.
If you check research results, second marriages last even shorter than first ones. So rather than hastily throw the first one away, why not build it to last?

2.Are marriage vows traditional,cultural or religious things?marriages are made in heaven,to me is more of religious(GOD) but u have to acknowledge d traditions.(Caesar)(is only God that can do 1+1=1)when i go villa i go ask of culture own stay turn ok

salt 1:

Why did you single out marital abuse? What of not finding your partner sexually appealing? Or quarrelling with your mother-in-law? Or her not respecting you because you became broke?

Any EXCUSE (because that is what they are) for ending a marriage should be weighed against the backdrop of the Bible. That is, if you believe in the God of the Bible in the first place. If you don't accept the Bible standard, go and look for another accomplice who will tell you your position is ok and not to worry.
But that person won't be me. Relationships aren't easy and can always be worked upon, instead of thrown away.
If you check research results, second marriages last even shorter than first ones. So rather than hastily throw the first one away, why not build it to last?

well i stated that from the beginning. This thread is about the vow,god or the bible and marital abuse?Well i guess you don't have a scripture for or against divorce based on marital abuse. Yes a perfect relationship is not easy to maintain,and people like you are always hard on divorcees and reasons are not important to you,so you should be able to prove your points against any reason for divorce.

It is easy to quote scriptures from outside the fire.What will you do if your sister,mother,father,brother or kid is a victim of abuse?

Vows are cultural. If you say vows are religious, i might as well remind you dt religion is a form of culture. Moreover, vow like i said before has no standard in relation to what is being said, now not in how long d union is to last. If a marriage is wrong from d begining then d two might as well separate after it dawns on them.whether they'll marry afterwards is dependent on them and other factors but its better to remain single and be fulfilled than to be trapped in a marriage dt is not contributing towards ur living a fulfilled life. Its a pity some people are ruined by marriage.

ATMC: Vows are cultural. If you say vows are religious, i might as well remind you dt religion is a form of culture. .. . .

I am giving you a mental round of applause for this statement. You actually don't know how brilliant this assertion is but surely one of the most impressive sentences I've read in my long years on NL.
Infact, let me stretch it a bit . . . that's one of the truest statements since Peter called Jesus the Son of God.
The first time I heard this was from a very intellectual and kinda spiritual 'somebody', you'r the second. BRILLIANT !!!

ATMC:
Moreover, vow like i said before has no standard in relation to what is being said, now not in how long d union is to last. If a marriage is wrong from d begining then d two might as well separate after it dawns on them.

not necessarily, not neccessarily there are can be so many scenarios that might have a lot of different ways of resolving them. And by the way, is there a yardstick for determining wrong and right beginnings for marriage ?? (Note: the couple that just celebrated 80 yrs of marriage got hooked when they were 17 and 21 respectively, they ran away from home to stay together - in this age that would be seen as a foolish decision based on infatuation by immature young ppl a.k.a. wrong foundation but guess what ? they lasted 80 years)

ATMC: its better to remain single and be fulfilled than to be trapped in a marriage dt is not contributing towards ur living a fulfilled life. Its a pity some people are ruined by marriage.

I concur

debrief08: My Dear, I saw your thread but resisted the urge to comment because it is a great thread and I don't want it turned to something else.
Don't you know that as soon as Debrief, Jenny and Madam CC comment even without mentioning Divorce, Cabal hunters pounce and make a once great post to become cabal and anti cabal debate.
As I said I have found no Biblical basis for the vow, it is something the church introduced, I found no basis for the "till death do you part" part of the vows, mostly just traditional, howver does that mean people should marry and divorce at will? No, that was what Jesus and even God frowned at, Men of Isear marry and divorce as soon as they saw someonw else or were tired of their spouses. It was based on that Jesus said don't divore except there is a clear case of adultery.
True people will abuse provisions but it is not the will of God for anyone to be a dead spouse than a surviving Divorce.

I am not the most religious of fellows but I'll advise that if you are to make references to a religion then you can as well do so accurately.
It is clearly implied in the Bible that the original intention of marriage was supposed to be a 'till death do us part' thing.

You can read up Matt 19 v4-8 and
Rom 7 v2,3 - For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. . . .

That should be enough basis


That said however, I believe like every other law in the Bible there are circumstances that can make it difficult for adherents to fulfill such injunctions. even the bible gave a number of such instances (1 cor 7 et al)

The marriage vow quoted left right and centre is not Biblical period. People can explain how much they want but can they point it in any scripture? It is a man made vow....pagan....same as praying to Mary. I guess people keep repeating it so much that now so many believe it is somewhere in the Bible....same as those who keep repeating God hates divorce when the Bible clearly states under what conditions a man can divorce his wife and what should not happen after divorce. About abuse... although the Bible does not specify abuse.....I think it advise that you basically separate and may reunite again. However, if you become involved with someone else you are committing adulrery.

So no scriptures on marital abuse and divorcing on that ground?

Should people who divorce based on grounds of abuse be judged by Matt19v4-8 and other bible portions that are solely based on adultery?

And what happens to a man or woman when their partners fail to meet god's expectations in marriage?

The problem with people is that,they don't go beyond quoting scriptures and what they are told? If you are quoting scriptures,give some logical response to the subject and stop quoting out of context.

Again this thread is about marital abuse,divorce base on abuse,vows and what the bible has to say about it?