Empiree:
2days ago i thought about incident that happened in 1990 on our way from Lagos in 505 vehicle. I couldnt recollect how the whole thing happened. I was much younger. So i called this man yesterday to satisfy my curiosity and he remembers. Mashallah! I truly enjoyed as he continued telling me the story. He said "My son also brought it to my attention few days before this past Ramadan"....a day we will never forget. It happened so fast.

We were coming from Lagos to Ijebu. His son drove the car. He was a teenager at the time and just learned driving. Anyways, instead of him to drive short cut to our destination after arrived Ijebu, he loved driving through downtown....that's, Folagbade. It was daylight. He accidentally hit marked police sergeant luxury car in front of him.

Both he and his father stepped off the car. Police also stepped out and walked angrily towards us with baton. This was during military regime. By the time he's couple of feet close to us, wallahi, Ruhaniyah grabbed or gripped him. It was like electric shock. He was shaking standing. I was sitting in the car but did not quiet understood what happened. It was yesterday i asked him. He said "Awon Ruhaniyah ni". They grabbed him. But he told me yesterday that we are the guilty party because we hit him. But police didnt do anything. They picked raise after seeing what happened.

I also raised tbaba concern with him just to hear what he had to say, he said dont argue with them. They have no idea. Ruhaniyah are not Jinn. They are purely to serve pious muslims and teach them Quran. So the sheik in the video i posted earlier was right. Ruhaniyah teaches waliy of Allah, they make lots of salawat on them and Rosul. This man confirms that as well. He said he would recite Quran and teach him what he knew not. I was just shaking my head yesterday as he narrates. This is really deep. But he just doesnt talk about it. I do.

I asked him again yesterday for surety purposes how he came about Ruhaniyah?. He reaffirmed to me that it was borne out of Sura Yasin (too much of recitation). He also mentioned (dua) Jabbar I posted up there. It's about 62 pages. Jabbar is "Oriki Olohun". He said i thought you used to recite it with us?. Alas! I probably used to recite 2 pages. He then recited it on the phone with me. wallahi i was enjoying it. It exceedingly praises Allah. And Allah 'smiles' hearing reciter. If you recite Jabbar coupled with Yasin, with your purpose(s), wallahi liazm, you will never languish in poverty. This i know for sure.This kind of thing strengthens faith.

He did say (in agreement with tbaba's concern) that there are indeed those who invoke Jinn (ofo-incantation) and Jinn give them condition like telling someone to go off n.k. e/d and run down the street to get power. He told me this yesterday. He said those are haram. Thats worshiping them and it's shirk. But Ruhaniyah are borne out of Dua/dhikr to aid mumin.

The reason i keep bringing this up is to kind of clear doubt about folks like tbaba who somehow doubt this issue. I wanted to be sure what i experienced was accurate. So i reminded him things i have said here. He said "you right" referring to me. This is not a matter of 'show off', rather to proof that we have power of mercy, protection and complete guidance in islam.

I do believe that it's not proper to just chant Allah's name for purpose of seeking wealth. This is what i presumed Sino's Ustaz did. The man told me yesterday that purpose(sincere niyyah) should be seeking knowledge of islam NOT money. It is not haram to do that but it's just not wise. He said if you say you want money, you may be buried (covered) in your room with money. That the person may be killed like that. Thats not healthy. Sino's Alfa was lucky. I also asked why many dont recognize importance of Sura Yasin?...he said "what they dont know they dont know. Just dont argue with them. Didnt you see wonders of Yasin when you were here?" I smiled.

Its a wrong notion to believe jinns give conditions and the ones that dont are "ruhaniyah" this is wrong.

We have muslim jinns, a jinn can like you and decide to help you, not out of being pious.
I should know i have spoken with jinn before, and its not due to reciting yasin, and i have heard of people who do.

If he was pious why did the ruhaniyah help him to do the wrong thing by holding his legs, afterall he was the guilty one should he not take responsibility.

tbaba1234:


You are mistaken. I said, you do not fix a number not defined by the sunnah.

Otherwise, you can recite as much as you are able.

I would give narrations on the excellence of some of the worship by companions and tabeen, yet not one single authentic narration on this phenomenon.

What's about fixing a number? What if it is just to monitor myself and the time I have spent in Adhkars?
How did you know it's thousands when they aren't counting?
The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) said he does more than 70 Istigifar per day? So am I innovating if I decided to fix 500 Istigifar per day due to the nature of what I do everyday?

So one has to be hearing doors opening and knocks e.t.c to know they are making lots of duas?

Empiree:
lanrexlan, you see, not that i am really interested in "consulting spirit" as maclatunji wants to portray. First all, i was telling a story. Second, mainstream ideology, which seems intolerant towards others is what i am basically trying to remove. They bore not only me but other muslims. It's like mechanical all the time.

If a student asks mainstream muslim scholar about xyz (something not known publicly), Sheik says "we did not have record of prophet or early generation mentioned this". Therefore, it must be haram or bid'ah when in fact the subject is real.

My point is mainstream is not always the way to go. They are just basic and that's it. And they are so rigid. The problem with that is they will not be able to understand modern world using their madhhab. Whats the point of quoting medieval ulama when Quran is still with us warning us about evolving predicament. Quran sits in judgement over everything else. I was once like that (rigid mentality) for 4 yrs. I made U-turn in 2011. Again, I quote the word of great Sheik Adam Abdullah Al-ilory

If we didnt have '" rigid people" with "medieval times" who chose to safe and preach based on evidence alone, but "modern world" so many thngs would have been mixed up.

lanrexlan:
What's about fixing a number? What if it is just to monitor myself and the time I have spent in Adhkars?
How did you know it's thousands when they aren't counting?
The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) said he does more than 70 Istigifar per day? So am I innovating if I decided to fix 500 Istigifar per day due to the nature of what I do everyday?

It becomes problematic when you start telling others to do it 500 times to see result and not do istighfar as much as you can.

He was supposee to buy cow but bought ram and the ram died, so its sign?

Whats that now, he could have bought a sick ram and it was coincidence he died next day.

If the ruhaniyah is pious why would he kill the ram and waste meat, why not accept it, afterall man is prone to doing the wrong things? Whats the special attachment to cow for sadaqa, will pour man care if he is eating cow meat or ram meat?

Sounds like boka things to me.

lanrexlan:
What's about fixing a number? What if it is just to monitor myself and the time I have spent in Adhkars?
How did you know it's thousands when they aren't counting?
The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) said he does more than 70 Istigifar per day? So am I innovating if I decided to fix 500 Istigifar per day due to the nature of what I do everyday?

If you want to emulate the prophet, do more than 70 daily and do as much as you can. It is simple.

This is how people come up with recite something x times for something to happen. I am not in a position to say bida'ah but i know it has the potential to lead to other things.

Mentioning thousands was not meant to be exact, it is meant to show that there were companions and tabeen known by their worship and how much time, they spent reciting Quran and adkhar. Yet no one narration of ruhaniyah anywhere.

If i am provided with evidence, i would accept. I am not arguing for the sake of argument.

tbaba1234:

If you want to emulate the prophet, do more than 70 daily and do as much as you can. It is simple.
This is how people come up with recite something x times for something to happen. I am not in a position to say bida'ah but i know it has the potential to lead to other things.

@ Underlined, what other things?

tbaba1234: Mentioning thousands was not meant to be exact, it is meant to show that there were companions and tabeen known by their worship and how much time, they spent reciting Quran and adkhar. Yet no one narration of ruhaniyah anywhere.

Please kindly give narrations that says companions or Tab'een recited Adhkars in large quantities.

tbaba1234: If i am provided with evidence, i would accept. I am not arguing for the sake of argument.

You are arguing for the sake of there's no paper evidence.Your acceptance or rejection doesn't really change the notion of people's that experienced it.

lanrexlan:
@ Underlined, what other things?

Please kindly give narrations that says companions or Tab'een recited Adhkars in large quantities.

You are arguing for the sake of there's no paper evidence.Your acceptance or rejection doesn't really change the notion of people's that experienced it.

I. Like fixing counts for x reward with no evidence from Quran and Sunnah is a negative impact.

Experienced what exactly What did they experience? They do not even know..

Imam Abu Hanifah was one of the great Tabiun, renowned for his worship and scholarship.

I am shocked that muslims do not define their experiences through the Quran and sunnah.

I am saying your experiences CAN NOT be outside the quran and Sunnah. Anything outside it is not necessary for your spirituality, simple.

I am not saying they did not have experiences with unseen. Do not formulate ideas based on what you see. refer to the Quran and Sunnah.

^^^
I am done.
Lest I forget, please kindly provide us narrations that companions perform Adhkars in large quantities.
Salam Alaikum Waramatulah Wabarakatuh

@lanrexlan, you talk sense brother. I read your replies. @Empiree and kazlaw2000, ride on by His Power and Majesty.

tbaba1234:

Making projections on unseen phenomena without
evidence from the Quran and Sunnah is wrong.

tbaba1234:


This is why events, have to be viewed in that light. The Quran and the sunnah.

There are people of high spirituality in the sight of Allah who experience personal miracles but we can not divorce it from the Quran and Sunnah.

Qur'an and Hadith are our guide in every matter. It is not necessary ALL experience of life (physical, social and spiritual) should be explicitly mention there. How much knowledge (of these Books) you have will guide you to conclude on whatever spiritual experience you might have.

Case1:
Sheik AbdulQadir al-Jilani (ra) was once reported to have seen a great light once during his routine Tahajjud. It became constant until he saw a mighty throne with a creature sitting on it. Sheik was reported to have asked who that was? While the creature responded to be his Lord, Allah. Fascinating! Isn't it?

Perhaps with Sheik's knowledge of the Qur'an where Allah say"La tudrikul absar wahuwa yudrikuh'l absar wahuwa latiful khabir (no vision can see Him, and He sees all visions...)" Or "walam yakun lahu kuf'wan Ahad (and none is like Him)" etc

Sheik was reported to have said to the light (creature sitting on the throne): "I seek Allah's refuge against whatever you are". It was reported the light disappeared. And Sheik concluded that was Shay'tan with his antics.

Was there any textual or documented evidence of this among the 'sahabas' for you to believe?

NB: This experience was similar to Maryam al-Muqassa (as), Jesus Mother's experience when she was visited by a creature with light. She sought Allah's refuge according to Qur'an. Then the creature introduced himself to be an Angel.

It is absolutely clear according to Qur'an there are many worlds and many creations; and EVERYTHING moves in one direction - to Allah (swt), willingly or unwillingly. Possibility of 'knowing each other' along the way is high.

An experienced and sincere 'Abdullah (servant of Allah), when strangely visited or come across by any form of Creature will instantly seek Allah's refuge, and Allah will protect should the creature comes to harm (i.e misguide). If its a manifestation of his amal (deeds) or messenger sent by Allah to guide him, then the creature will introduce itself and you will be acquitted with it. There might not be textual evidence for the name "Ruhaniyyah" but certainly the origination, description and analogy is not far-fetched from the Qur'an and ahadith.
************

Case2:

Somebody close to us lost his wife recently. Surprisingly in no time, her family members began to fought over her properties while she left husband and children. Unfortunately for this family members they couldn't find her most valuable asset (Golds). Even the husband turn their house upside down in search of this yet no one finds it.

After some months, my brother's wife dreamt while this deceased woman appeared to her. She said: "I can see what's going on...and nobody will ever see the gold. Go to my house and check so so so place, take the gold and keep it for my children till they become of age".

We all taught its a mere dream until my sister-in-law and husband of the deceased do as the deceased ask them, and by Allah they found the gold where it was hided; and no one could ever know where it was kept.

So when Sheik ibn Baz writes this:
"The majority of Ahlul Sunnah acknowledge that the Prophet is alive in his grave and lives a life of Barzakh. The way it is and how it is, is not known, except by Allah. And it is not from the kind of life of the people of the world, rather it is a different kind from which he obtains, he has sensation through bliss, and through it he hears the Salam of the muslim upon him when Allah returns his soul to him at that moment. Such as mentioned in the narration(s)...And then narrations in this meaning are plenty...But this life does not mean that he is aware of the unseen or that he is aware of the situations of the people of the world, rather that has been cut off by death according to his narration.
~Majmu' al-Fatawa, ibn Baz, vol. 2 p.386- 387.

I say that's Sheik Ibn Baz's own "textual argument". Mine is experiencial. And with my little knowledge of the holy Qur'an and ahadith, I was able to decipher that "death" is not annihilation of man rather with "death", which is just a mere separation of his physical body and soul, his real Hayyat (life) begins in Barzakh (spiritual world - purgatory), and since Barzakh is above this 'physical world', a dead (in earthly terminology) is able to see more clearly and hear distinctively by Allah's permission.

*Remember when the holy Prophet (peace be on him and his household) talks to the polytheist dead buried inside a well after the battle of Badr.

I remember when I saw a creature in 'pure white '(I don't know if its in a clothe or light, I just know all was white) on a Thursday midnight (Friday) praying for us (the children) while everybody was asleep, I was terrified. It happened many times. I ask my Alfa ile kewu (who was of "textual aqeedah" then (1980's) and he told me I was hallucinating. I couldn't help myself. And another Alfa said its Jinn.
An experience Sheik later said it might be our dead one who is given permission to visit his house/family in person since we used to organize du'a for our dead. Our conclusion then was that the dead is our grandfather (died 2years before I was even born).

If any ideology say rubbish that such a thing is not documented in the book, I will tell him he's talking nonsense.

Wa Salam alaykum.

Sissie:



It becomes problematic when you start telling others to do it 500 times to see result and not do istighfar as much as you can.

Sure, it depends on your strength and determination.
But what if I want to help my brother to grow in piety and reciting the Adhkars doesn't bring him problems.Is it allowed?

Sissie:


Its a wrong notion to believe jinns give conditions and the ones that dont are "ruhaniyah" this is wrong.

We have muslim jinns, a jinn can like you and decide to help you, not out of being pious.
I should know i have spoken with jinn before, and its not due to reciting yasin, and i have heard of people who do.

If he was pious why did the ruhaniyah help him to do the wrong thing by holding his legs, afterall he was the guilty one should he not take responsibility. He was supposee to buy cow but bought ram and the ram died, so its sign?

Whats that now, he could have bought a sick ram and it was coincidence he died next day.

If the ruhaniyah is pious why would he kill the ram and waste meat, why not accept it, afterall man is prone to doing the wrong things? Whats the special attachment to cow for sadaqa, will pour man care if he is eating cow meat or ram meat?

Sounds like boka things to me.

You appear to get everything wrong the way you portrayed here. You see, this is why those people dont talk about things like this. It's personal to them. And at this point, I'd rather mute and you people can say your views. But clearly you got it wrong. Those who seem to share my view have given much thought here.

Just reading and all that is just the beginning. Theoretical approach, while i dont condemn it, it narrows our scope. I do theory too. And yes, of course, Yasin is not the only way to go. You guys keep misunderstanding the whole thing. Imagine if i didnt say importance of Yasin, we would believe the ahadith that spoke about it are Daef or fabricated as tbaba123 once said.

In as much you have not recognized or understood importance of Yasin, i dont think i have much to say to convince you about Ruh-aniyah. Importance of Sura Yasin i mentioned in previous page alone discredits argument put up against me. Importance of Yasin was taken from hadith yet tbaba said it's Daef or fabricated. So if i found hadith that mentioned Ruhaniyah by name, I wouldn't expect you to compliment is as Sahih either. Unless and until you recognize that, I wont go further from here. Besides, anything that brings about division among us here, I'd stay out for that sake.

To hold the fact that God only created Malaika, Jinn and Mankind and thats it?. I wont agree with that for a second. Remember though, going beyond fundamental layer is not a must. But those who do and choose to explain what they say (sincerely), it doesnt matter how much theory you read, you will have no clue. Believe that. Quran and Hadith call it Ihsan. Some folks centuries ago invented another word for it "tassawuf" so as to label people something.

I say, wouldn't it be kind of you to just do what they do. Lock yourself up in a room for days and keep reciting Lailaha illah llahu and then come here and tell me it's Jinn.

If we didnt have '" rigid people" with "medieval times" who chose to safe and preach based on evidence alone, but "modern world" so many thngs would have been mixed up.

No, what they meant by rigidity is you do not accept flexible interpretation (as things evolve). Those who do Ihsan(tassawuf) quote from Quran and hadith what they experience. Enlightening us what we might perhaps understood differently. Wallahu Allam

lanrexlan:
^^^
I am done.
Lest I forget, please kindly provide us narrations that companions perform Adhkars in large quantities.
Salam Alaikum Waramatulah Wabarakatuh

Narrated Abu `Uthman:

I was a guest of Abu Huraira for seven days. Abu Huraira, his wife and his slave used to get up and remain awake for one-third of the night by turns. Each would offer the night prayer and then awaken the other. I heard Abu Huraira saying, "Allah's Apostle distributed dates among his companions and my share was seven dates, one of which was a Hashafa (a date which dried on the tree before it was fully ripe). (Sahih Bukhari Book: 70, Hadith: 5496)



This is an example of their dedication in worship.

Salam al baqir,

You are simply narrating strange occurrences or even miracles.

We know miracles can take many forms, there are evidences in the life of the prophet and his companions. Several different occurrences.

What is the knowledge of this Ruhaniyah? All i have heard are conjecture. Some say lower angel, others say neither of the above. confusion. It comes from reciting Quran and adkhar, conjecture.... I am asking, where is the precedent because it is not a one off occurrence.

There are been several who worship just as much or even more. Where are their narrations??

It started like this
Tbaba1234 said

Tbaba1234: Certainly, with the thousands of duas made by companions of higher spirituality. There would be evidence of this.

I replied

lanrexlan: Please give us narrations that companions made thousands of du'as.

He turned around to say

tbaba1234: Mentioning thousands was not meant to be exact, it is meant to show thatthere were companions and tabeen known by their worship and how much time, they spent reciting Quran and adkhar.

I replied again

lanrexlan: Please kindly give narrations that says companions or Tab'een recited Adhkars in large quantities.

Then he first came up with Abu Huraira reciting the Qu'ran at night and another sahaba that recited Surah Al-Kafh at night and loved doing so which he modified.

Then finally he came up with this, which has nothing to do with my question.Give us narrations of sahabas or ta'been reciting Adhkars in large as you opined by the underlined not Tahajjud.

tbaba1234:



Narrated Abu `Uthman:

I was a guest of Abu Huraira for seven days. Abu Huraira, his wife and his slave used to get up and remain awake for one-third of the night by turns. Each would offer the night prayer and then awaken the other. I heard Abu Huraira saying, "Allah's Apostle distributed dates among his companions and my share was seven dates, one of which was a Hashafa (a date which dried on the tree before it was fully ripe). (Sahih Bukhari Book: 70, Hadith: 5496)



This is an example of their dedication in worship.

You've done well evading the questions again.

lanrexlan:




You've done well evading the questions again.

What questions and what is their relevance to the ruhaniyah question.

You are completely missing the point... I am talking about the level of worship of the companions. I removed the one on surah kafh because i did not get the reference. It is a completely valid post.

If ruhaniyah is inspired by level of spirituality, are your alfas more spiritual than imam hanifah who is renowned for his worship? Or Abu bakr, Ali, umar or the great imams,

Or do you dispute this?

Trust me if i thought it was relevant, i would devote time to bring out references.

tbaba1234:
Salam al baqir,

You are simply narrating strange occurrences or even miracles.

Wa alaykum salam, those are not "strange occurrence or miracles", they are personal experience not beyond human understanding in line with the understanding of Qur'an and ahadith. However, such a thing will be discarded by people of "rigid textual ideology" saying there's no documented narration e.g the conclusion of sheik ibn baz that dead knows not what goes around in the physical world.

tbaba1234:


What is the knowledge of this Ruhaniyah? All i have heard are conjecture. Some say lower angel, others say neither of the above. confusion. It comes from reciting Quran and adkhar, conjecture.... I am asking, where is the precedent because it is not a one off occurrence.

Truly there's no "textual evidence" for the word "Ruhaniyah" known to me, and like I said ^ the description, and purpose is not far-fetched according to Qur'anic and hadith text. However, the only match-word is mentioned in the holy Qur'an.

"And mention Maryam in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place."

So she took a veil (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her [size=25pt]RUHANAH (Our spirit[/size], and there appeared to her a well-made man." ~sura Maryam:16 - 17

In the next verse, the identity of the "Ruhanah" was known to be:
"He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord..." verse 19

Note: Qur'an never use the word "Angel" and there's no suggestion it was an Angel, according to Qur'an. Some translators used "Angel".

Other place in the Qur'an, only the word "Our messenger (Rasulunah)" was used, (e.g sent to Ibrahim, to give glad tiding of a son at his old age: sura Hud: 69 - 73).

Why did the word "Ruhanah" was used in the case of Maryam?

Observe maryam (as) secluded herself. Doing what? According to Qur'an, her whole life is entirely devoted in worship for her Lord. So definitely she was into a form of adhkar while in seclusion.

While some usually interpret "Ruh or Ruh Qudus" as Angel Jubril (as), there's no evidence in the Qur'an or ahadith known to me. What Qur'an distinguish is:

"To Him ascend the angels and the Ruh'..." ~sura al-Maarij: 4

"The angels and Ruh' descend in it by the permission of their Lord..." ~sura al-Qadr

Jubril (as) was mentioned by name "Jubril" in the Qur'an and the fact that he is among the angels so he cannot be "Ruh' or Ruhul Qudus".

Then there are many place in the holy Qur'an where e.g Jesus (as) was strengthened by the "Ruh'ul Qudus" (sura al-baqarah:87, believers strengthened by the "Ruh" - sura Mujadilah: 22; "Ruh' is breathe into man to make him living - sura al-Hijr:29 etc.

Then Qur'an summarized beautifully:
"And they ask you about the Ruh'. Say: The Ruh' is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little."

First, it is obvious Jubril is not the "Ruh" as many used to interpret.

Second, "Ruh'" is a 'command' from Allah (to His 'Abd (servant)). Which 'Abd? Definitely sincere and righteous 'Abd.

Third, there are of different form or types of "Ruh': *"Ruhu'l Qudus, Ruhanah...etc" depending on your rank with Allah. Most great Prophets (peace be on them all) are being strengthened by "Ruh'ul Qudus".

NB: The word "Ruhanah" translated to "Our Spirit" is best explained as "Spirit more Beloved or Dearer to Allah".

Those (I mean sincere and pious servants of God) who experience a particular form of "Ruh'", perhaps brought about the word "Ruh'aniyah". Allah knows best. But absolutely the "word" do not have a textual evidence but again and again the reality and spiritual experience of it can never be discarded.

This is my personal submission in line with my little research. I hope, brothers @lanrexlan, Empiree, kazlaw2000 and others will contribute in this thought. May Allah guide us.

tbaba1234:


There are been several who worship just as much or even more. Where are their narrations??

tbaba 1234, like I said before and lanrexlan seconded, everything about everything on everything can never be documented, in fact, was not documented especially personal spiritual experience; of the Prophet, the companions etc. Where's my evidence of this? My evidence lies with the fact that you can never produce evidence that everything was documented. Therefore, it is not welcome to discard people's personal spiritual experience. The best we could do is dissecting and comparing the so-called experience in line with the understanding of Qur'an and ahadith. Here, even there are differences concerning interpretations of the Qur'an and understanding of some ahadith.

All I know is majority of those who claimed one form of spiritual experience today are on the path of Shay'tan without knowing it. The line of Tasawwuf is simplify as:
[color=990000]Niyyat (Intention) >> Shariat (religious law, codes etc) >> Tariqat (spiritual path) >> Haqiqat (Absolute Truth). [/color]

Most of these people lack seriously, in fact, they boycott the Shariat while even their Niyyat is worldly, and not Godly, then they boast of Tariqat after one form of "adhkar" and start narrating their "spiritual experience" etc. Truly they might see something, they might hear something and feel something extra ordinary but they cannot separate grains from chaff. What they see: Is it "Ruhullah (spirit of Allah) or "Ruhushaytan" (spirit of satan) disguising as spirit of God in order to mislead? Here majority will never seek refuge in Allah for guidance.

One has to be very careful indeed.

Allah knows best.

^This is very handsome Albqir. In that ayah above, Allah did not mention Malaika. Mashallah! Albaqir got us handsome research. Shukran.

What i expected of tbaba1234, Sissie, maclatunji and other opposing view is we should all do research rather simply brushing aside that it doesnt exist historically. No wonder the man said they dont understand.

When we used to call it "Rawaniya", that sounds like Yoruba accent and corrupted pronunciation of "Ruhaniyah". And Ruhaniyah seems to be corrupted pronunciation of RUHANAH mentioned in the Quran. Thanks to Sino, his Alfa and Albaqir. Research goes on.....

Truly there's no "textual evidence" for the word "Ruhaniyah" known to me, and like I said ^ the description, and purpose is not far-fetched according to Qur'anic and hadith text. However, the only match-word is mentioned in the holy Qur'an.

"And mention Maryam in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place."

So she took a veil (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her RUHANAH (Our spirit, and there appeared to her a well-made man." ~sura Maryam:16 - 17

In the next verse, the identity of the "Ruhanah" was known to be:
"He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord..." verse 19

Note: Qur'an never use the word "Angel" and there's no suggestion it was an Angel, according to Qur'an. Some translators used "Angel".

Other place in the Qur'an, only the word "Our messenger (Rasulunah)" was used, (e.g sent to Ibrahim, to give glad tiding of a son at his old age: sura Hud: 69 - 73).

Why did the word "Ruhanah" was used in the case of Maryam?

Observe maryam (as) secluded herself. Doing what? According to Qur'an, her whole life is entirely devoted in worship for her Lord. So definitely she was into a form of adhkar while in seclusion.

While some usually interpret "Ruh or Ruh Qudus" as Angel Jubril (as), there's no evidence in the Qur'an or ahadith known to me. What Qur'an distinguish is:

"To Him ascend the angels and the Ruh'..." ~sura al-Maarij: 4

"The angels and Ruh' descend in it by the permission of their Lord..." ~sura al-Qadr

Jubril (as) was mentioned by name "Jubril" in the Qur'an and the fact that he is among the angels so he cannot be "Ruh' or Ruhul Qudus".

Then there are many place in the holy Qur'an where e.g Jesus (as) was strengthened by the "Ruh'ul Qudus" (sura al-baqarah:87, believers strengthened by the "Ruh" - sura Mujadilah: 22; "Ruh' is breathe into man to make him living - sura al-Hijr:29 etc.

Then Qur'an summarized beautifully:
"And they ask you about the Ruh'. Say: The Ruh' is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little."

First, it is obvious Jubril is not the "Ruh" as many used to interpret.

Second, "Ruh'" is a 'command' from Allah (to His 'Abd (servant)). Which 'Abd? Definitely sincere and righteous 'Abd.

Third, there are of different form or types of "Ruh': *"Ruhu'l Qudus, Ruhanah...etc" depending on your rank with Allah. Most great Prophets (peace be on them all) are being strengthened by "Ruh'ul Qudus".

NB: The word "Ruhanah" translated to "Our Spirit" is best explained as "Spirit more Beloved or Dearer to Allah".

Those (I mean sincere and pious servants of God) who experience a particular form of "Ruh'", perhaps brought about the word "Ruh'aniyah". Allah knows best. But absolutely the "word" do not have a textual evidence but again and again the reality and spiritual experience of it can never be discarded.

When i asked someone on YouTube who also believe in the existence of "Ruhaniyah" to give me some textual reference(s), he qouted me this..

And they ask you about the Ruh'. Say: The Ruh' is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little.

And when i said mainstream muslims dont seem to believe in such a thing. That they see it haram or bid'ah. He said "mainstream is not always the way to go. They do or say things that befit 'their' understanding". He further said it's not for everyone. Allah chose whom he gives. <- this statement is in the Quran. We should research research research rather than staunch condemnation. Thats how to acquire knowledge. And of course, one must be careful threading that part.

Here is another reference to Ruh different from Angels.......Sura 97:4 differentiates Angels from Ruh.

The angels and the Spirit descend therein by permission of their Lord for every matter

[quote author=Hkana post=28984281]Lovely debate so far.... I particularly love the "yasin" "ruhaniyah" perspective.

Empiree, what I don't get is, concerning yasin. You mentioned in one page that someone shouldn't recite plenty of it except s/he has some spare change. As in, the recitations should be followed by charity and/or slaughter, right? (Though, I'm not quoting you word for word)
My concern is "why those conditions?"

Okay now. I wouldn't want you to take my response too personal as some opposing views have taken drastic steps against it without fully understanding what the whole thing truly entailed.

I was around the man for 20yrs. We do the prayers for clients. The man also do it for himself. I:E Sura Yasin, compilation of Dua titled 'Jabbar', and Khutba of sura Yasin. When we had discussion last Saturday, i clearly understood why ram, cow are sacrificed.

Note, sacrifice is only for Allah not something else as Sissie tried to put earlier in this post.
Sacrifice is done to 'subdue' power of Yasin. This is why i can not agree with those who say Ahadith of Yasin are daef or fabricated. Yasin is the word of Allah. The end of it is statement of Allah "Kun fayakun". There is a lot in the phrase. Just by reading text is not enough to feel what it is. Tafsir may give us clue. Either way, making it constant dua is where the real deal is.

How did the man come about sacrificing animal?. There may or may not be direct reference in the Hadith to back this up. Common sense could have suggested it. He told me sacrificing animal, sheep or cow is tantamount to 'ero' i:e remedy (when Yasin starts acting up). This means too much of it will bring everything out of it. I wish i can explain this better. Let me try. It means, when Yasin is fully in effect, it destroys evil forces in the vicinity within a blink while at the same time 'looking' for 'living being' to hold on to. Thats why the man always keeps livestock (chickens) in his compounds just in case.

I witnessed it myself in the late 80s after he finished the dua. He had not buy ram. Suddenly his daughter felt sick with high fever. He knew the remedy. It was early in the morning this happened. He quickly gathered funds and slaughtered sheep. I honestly dont care how folks here feel about this narration. This is the word of Allah. Even Allah said in the Quran that if He was to send down Quran on a mountain it would have turned asunder (sura 59:21). I do not know how he learned the remedy.

He gave me another instance, one of his workers who came to learn from him, very greedy man. I know the him very well. He would recite Yasin but refused to take care of its remedy. Yasin gripped his daughter. The man warned him outstart. The lady passed away of high fever. This is not to be misunderstood that Yasin is bad.

Benefits we noticed after this dua is tranquility, security (in the entire 80s and part of 90s, there were Jinns killing and hurting folks, there were robberies and seldom killings in the town->[size=5pt]usually linked to fetches[/size]<-. Other creatures too like 'emere' and "Iwin" used to bother the hood). They never came to us.

Another benefits noticed was wealth, brotherhood in the house. I lived in the same house with them for 20yrs. Sura Yasin provided us security from forces of unseen, witches. There used to be lots of witches in the town flying over everywhere. Anytime they flew over our house, they dropped. The man would pick some of them, caged and released them shortly. Sometimes, he lightly beat them and released them. The following day, some women came by saying, "Alhaji, you beat the hell out of us last night". We all laughed. they dont mess with us at all. He warned them that anytime they heading for their meetings, should not cross over his house. Or else, they face same predicament.

Secondly, where is the dua (Jabbaar)? I think I need it.

Jabbar!. Mashallah. Very powerful one. This one is to glorify Allah. He told me last Saturday that Jabbar is "oriki olohun". It's about 65 pages. He uses it for himself and clients to compel Allah to do this and that for him. (Astagfurllah..i believe you should understand what i mean by compelling God). He's bold to tell Allah 'I want this and that and he gets it. I love Jabbar, The Compeller.

You know what I meant by "oriki" right?. It's pedigree. How do you feel when your grandma glorifies you?. Are you familiar with granny uttering pedigree over her son or grand children?. Whenever my granny uttered my pedigree, ori mi ma nwu i:e I became very flamboyant. Same thing happens after he's done with Jabbar (prayer for himself), he comes outside saying "Ya Jabbar". His compound start mumbling.

This is what some folks here dont understand. Talking about it's Jinn. I know what i am talking about. Very successful man. He has no secondary educated. His level of education is primary 6. His classmates who are professors in UniIlorin, US based etc are struggling hard to put food on their table. Bottom line is if you hold on to Him firmly, by fulfilling requirements of Ihsan (tassawuf), you will get nothing but Malaika and or His Ruh descending (gri gri gri gri gri) upon you. Sura 97:4. It's now i can understand why he always tells us not to curse in his house.

Truth be told though, he does suffer high and low sometimes. That's very understandable.

But people dont want to make dua anymore. Just reading theoretically or criticizing when other does and succeed.

@empire your reply does not in any way reply my post.

1. I did not talk about Yasin
2. I did not say if i believe Ruhaniya exist or not
3. I was replying a specific post that jinns give conditions and those that dont are ruhaniyah.
4. I was asking why did the ruhaniyah waste meat and stop the police man when he is not the guilty one?, as that seems to be evidences to you, so dont you think it contradicts the piety you attached to those two specfic post?
5. I dont know why you chose to twist my words who's talking of sacrifice, i said why did it not accept ram but wanted cow? Whats with cow? Is it not meat? Is it not for sadaqah?

You did not answer question you are posting Sissie this, Sissie that.


Reciting surah yasin needs remedy to subdue it too powerful? Is there another surah yasin?
Al baqir do you also believe yasin need remedy?

[quote author=Sissie post=29012846]@empire your reply does not in any way reply my post.

1. I did not talk about Yasin

ok

2. I did not say if i believe Ruhaniya exist or not

ok

3. I was replying a specific post that jinns give conditions and those that dont are ruhaniyah

Pls can i have reference where i made above statement?. I know and everyone here also knows that Jinn give conditions(usually haram) like sino's Alfa to go na/k/ed etc. Can you give reference where i said those 'Jinns" that do not give condition are ruhaniyah, pls?

4. I was asking why did the ruhaniyah waste meat and stop the police man when he is not the guilty one?, as that seems to be evidences to you, so dont you think it contradicts the piety you attached to those two specfic post?

You dont understand this at all. Let me explain this the best i can. First, i think you should read my last post (reply) to Hkana. Sacrifice is made to Allah alone. You made it sounds like Ruhaniyah gave that order. Meat are not wasted. If the prayer is done for client, all Alfas, the man and his family and me and external people (miskin) eat from this meat. A big cow is not thrown into garbage. He must have learned about sacrificing animal from his Sheik ( I guess) due to strength of the Sura. Please refer to my last post. Thanks. Sacrifice here is simply like those Ileya(eld) with slight difference. Client and his family do not eat from it. Ruhaniyah does not eat ram or cow. Haba sister.

As for police issue. Yes, we are guilty because his son hit police from behind. Thats external logic. Internal logic is believe it or not, since Ruhaniyah was borne out of his dhikr, his duty was to teach and protect him. Simple. I am just trying to explain this better. May not be the best. But I understand it quiet right.

Let me give you internal logic. Say for instance Obama signs a bill banning Gay practices. Gay people take to the street of Washington to protest the ban. When Obama steps out to address them, protesters quickly rush toward him. Clearly, he may be hurt. But do you think for a second that SS would allow protesters to touch him even if obama was guilty?. Absolutely not. This is the best way i can describe the situation. I hope you get it.

There are only two options for the unseen that a muslim needs to know about, angels and jinns. If another genre was important for us to know about, we would have been told.

I. When angels appear to ordinary people, they do so in complete human form and for a specific purpose. They do not keep appearing to people when that purpose is fulfilled, no matter how much Quran you recite. The angels are present but not visible unless a particular message is to be delivered.

Their appearance has no purpose continously because one is already blessed by their unseen presence.

Not even in the time of the sahaba, which the prophet described as the best generation did you have angels visiting multiple people because they recited Quran.


Ii. The jinns are all around us and are interacted with more often.

It is obvious to me that the ruhaniyah are most likely from the second genre, the jinn, given

I. The frequency of appearance

Ii. The lack of a defined purpose.

I do think that many get lost into contacting an evil jinn thinking they are contacting 'ruhaniyah'. They get deceived into sins as a result.

That is why such communication is not even permissible.

How do you distinguish one from the other??

Muslims, please refer back to the basics of your deen for guidance. I beg you.

Salam.

^ Quiet frankly you dont get it. Angels are invisible. So are Ruhaniyah. The day a man sees Angels is his last day on this planet. We cant see Ruhaniyah either. Their presence can only be felt at some point. You can hold your view. It's okay. But kindly respond to Albaqir analysis up there.

You seem to also think it was frequent visits. Everything i narrated up there (summed up) is over 20 yrs period. Can you count number of visits in my narrative?. I think you need to be more open than just reading. Knowledge is broad. Although it's not a must to go beyond fundamental layer. Clearly Ruh are distinct from Angels.

By making staunch statement that Ruhaniyah must be Jinn, you have no evidence of that brother because you simply do not believe other beings beyond Angels and Jinns. Sorry, I believe more are created but not everyone knows. Even Yasir Qadri seems to figure that out. What you need is to study practically. This are not taught in modern institutions. Reading this and that is not always the way to go. Thats narrow path. I am not object to theory. I do theory too.

As for the man being misled?. Since you dont know him, this claim is easy for you just because you reading text. His Iman is waxing strong. You just have no idea brother. Since you declared ahadith about benefits of Yasin daef or fabricated, I know you have no clue. Why do you want me to hold your view?. There is a lot beyond text. We do not reject text. We use it as guide.

@empiree you did not understand my post but keep insisting i dont understand.

According to the story, the greedy man bought ram instead of cow and you people woke up to see it dead. Meaning the ram was not accepted, you did not attribute it to a natural death but because he was told to bring cow but he brought ram. If the sacrifice is to Allah why did the mallam stipulate it must be cow, how did he know it must be cow? If ruhaniyah said it must be cow iis that not similar to the jinn giving conditions? and not say buy either cow or sheep or camel or ram which ever you can buy? I can easily say the Alfas too were greedy and met a greedy man, they wanted the big meat?

Is obama a pious man? Why will a pious man and his ruhaniyah do something wrong, should he not go and meet the police and offer to fix the car?
What is he protecting him from? If you say the police man hit him its different, what if police man was going to ask him why did he hit his car?

Did you notice all the question marks? This are all questions no need to twist it and say she doesnt understand.

Your post i qouted previously has the jinn giving conditions post.

First, Empiree you did not give perfect answers to some of Sissie's questions.

* Why was the "Ruh'aniyah" stop the policeman (who was approaching the man)while the man was the guilt party?

Naturally the Police's intention is not to seek justice but to first beat the man up, which is injustice. And indeed, the man's action was a mistake not deliberate and that makes him not guilty other than fix what is broken. This "Ruhaniyah" defend the defenseless and that is a just cause.
Evil intention smells obnoxiously in the spiritual sense while good intentions smell sweet fragrance. This is what I think was perceived by the "Ruhaniyah" for making such move. Remember the story of Nabi Musa (as) and Khidr (as). Musa needs rational answers but Khidr works at a more spiritual level.
*********************

About Sacrifice! I can see Empiree is boiling inside to explain its rationality while the 'opposing' view needs more than rational ideology. Qur'an:
"Therefore turn in prayer to your Lord and sacrifice. ~sura al-Kawthar.

This is a command of Allah. Prayer (specific form of Du'a) should be accompanied with a Sacrifice. In fact, the word used is "waNihar'" vis-a-vis Slaughter (as in livestock).

Furthermore, in the Qur'an, Allah ordered:

* the Nabi Musa (as) and his people to sacrifice a cow for solution of a predicament. Why cow in particular?

* Nabi Ismail (as)'s supposed sacrifice was replaced 'temporarily' by a sacrificial lamb. Here a Ram was reported to be used. Why Ram in particular?

* In sura al-kawthar posted above where the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) was commanded to sacrifice (wanihar) after 'a set of du'a', what does he (peace be on him and his household) used for sacrifice: Cow, Ram, Camel etc

* An established Sunnah of Aqiqah is to Sacrifice a Ram for Allah in the name of the newborn.

These are documented evidences that Du'a should be accompanied by sacrifice. The weight of your Du'a will determine the kind of sacrifice to make but according to Qur'an one must sacrifice with Ikhlas (sincerity). Alfa may recommend a particular sacrifice due to his experience.
*********************

Lastly, Sissie "Ruh'aniyah" are not Angels or Jinns (whether good or bad Jinns). It is "Ruh', which Qur'an says its a "command from Allah". And according to Qur'an the kind of "Ruh'" that will be acquired will depend on your level in righteousness, ibaadat etc. That's why the Muqarabuns (like Muhammad, Jesus etc) are strengthened by "Ruh' Qudus", while personalities lower to them (the Prophets) like Maryam (as) saw "Ruh'anah", while by default, everyman is with a particular "Ruh' (which make us a living entity as Qur'an describe).

And no doubt, there are evil spirits which people experience all around while they boast its Allah's divine spirit. Pls read my submissions above^.

Salam.

@Albaqir you did try to explain but let me ask, how did we know he was about to attack him? Thats assumption but your answer is more plausible, however till leave doubts.

2. Am not talking about sacrifice but the conditions.
The examples you gave came from Allah. Where did empiree Alfa's condition came from? The condition became problematic when it was implied it died because of the condition.

Let me give you an example if a man decides to slaughter chicken on eid when he can slaughter ram, now you will say it wont be accepted but to tell me the chicken died because its not ram is problematic.


Do you also believe yasin need remedy to be done when recited?

That Ruhaniyas are nothing but Muslim Jinns, no evidence was presented to back that theory (just a theory at this point). Infact evidence was brought from the Quraan to show that it was probably Ruhaniya that visited Maryam(as) in her seclusion since the entity was not mentioned to be an angel but instead Ruhanna (see the similarity with Ruhaniyya). The question is why are u 100 percent sure Ruhaniyyas are Muslim Jinns?

Sissie:
@Albaqir you did try to explain but let me ask, how did we know he was about to attack him? Thats assumption but your answer is more plausible, however till leave doubts.

Sissie, if its not a Nigerian police (or other men in uniform for that matter), then we might think otherwise. Even if two civilians hit their respective cars, as angry and hungry Nigerian, what they can solve amicably will erupt into fight and chaos; not to mention a man in uniform vs a civilian.

@underline, evil intentions give rise to unpleasant awareness and soldiers of Allah (in whatever form available) will protect friend's of God in the vicinity.

One of my dear brother (in faith)'s wife gave birth recently. And by default, they were expecting family members to come for greetings etc. This brother kept certain "ayat for protections" on his baby. The brother has seen a lot in his life. According to the brother, two family members (women) came, one of them stood up to 'touch (carry)' the baby but fell down as if shocked by electric current. The other dare not to touch the baby. And other family members and friends came, carry the baby and pray. Nothing happened to them.

Allah (swt) and His selected soldiers works and rewards alongside intentions.

Sissie:

2. Am not talking about sacrifice but the conditions.
The examples you gave came from Allah. Where did empiree Alfa's condition came from? The condition became problematic when it was implied it died because of the condition.

Let me give you an example if a man decides to slaughter chicken on eid when he can slaughter ram, now you will say it wont be accepted but to tell me the chicken died because its not ram is problematic.

@bold, truly one should be careful with such insinuations, thoughts and assumptions with no certainty. While I do not buy the bold, I do not have rational or spiritual experience to support or discard out rightly.

Sissie:

Do you also believe yasin need remedy to be done when recited?

@underline, I call it sacrifice. And yes I do, in fact, not only for Yasin but many of my du'a is accompanied with sacrifice for Allah.
"Therefore turn in prayer to your Lord and sacrifice " ~sura al-Kawthar.

Yasin is the heart of the Qur'an, very powerful for whatever you use it for. And the effectiveness of Yasin (or any other du'a) lies in the sacrifice that go along with it.

kazlaw2000:
That Ruhaniyas are nothing but Muslim Jinns, no evidence was presented to back that theory (just a theory at this point). Infact evidence was brought from the Quraan to show that it was probably Ruhaniya that visited Maryam(as) in her seclusion since the entity was not mentioned to be an angel but instead Ruhanna (see the similarity with Ruhaniyya). The question is why are u 100 percent sure Ruhaniyyas are Muslim Jinns?

You de mind them. . They have no clue

Thanks a million Albaqir. Yes, my response to her was not A+. It's was actually 3AM here at the time I was replying her.

I thank you for beautifully backing up my point. Yes, I know and understood what I have been saying all along. But I get tired trying to write epistles to convince someone. You perfectly got encounters with police right. Thats why ruhaniyah didn't hurt him in the first place. Bottom line is the 'opposing' view like Tbaba, sissie and others don't seem to understand this at all. They probably think such thing could not happen in our time. As you can see, it's few. Our opposition need a lot more practical approach. Tbaba went to extreme length to say this is how jinn misguide people.. Am sorry, this is simply not the case. The reason tbaba clings on this medieval theory is bcuz of essay written by ibn tayyimiyah(r). And that no knowledge comes after these great people when in fact Qur'an is still with us?.

I know what I'm talking about. I know the man very well. I spent 20 yrs in his house. Compare that with these brothers reading this kitab, that kitab. They memorized and that's what they called knowledge. I have no problem with that. I read too. I was both practical and theoretical growing up.

As for livestock, honestly, they are not kept for that purpose. We generally love keeping livestock. But down the line, some of them got cut up with Yasin.

Anyways, in order for my "opposition" to convince me, they first need to comprehend importance of Sura Yasin and it's benefits. Don't come up with bogus "science of Hadith". Qur'an sits in judgement over what so called science thinks. This is matter of methodology and common sense. Science of Hadith, whatever method it's, does not sit over word of Allah.

This is why I don't always take mainstream Muslims seriously. Modern Islamic institutions are infiltrated by Masih-Dajjal. So they don't understand super power of this sura and many other great surat. They just reading. They also don't believe in studying under sheik ( practical sense). Tbaba also concluded that those two sheikhs in the videos and the man I'm talking about are lying. That's just gross. Those people don't even know one another. They live world apart.

I'm my view, the problem is when we tag people Sufi, Shia, it becomes problematic to listen to them because we think they are wrong and we are correct. That's arrogant.

Sissie:


2. Am not talking about sacrifice but the conditions.
The examples you gave came from Allah. Where did empiree Alfa's condition came from? The condition became problematic when it was implied it died because of the condition.

Let me give you an example if a man decides to slaughter chicken on eid when he can slaughter ram, now you will say it wont be accepted but to tell me the chicken died because its not ram is problematic.

Do you also believe yasin need remedy to be done when recited?

okay, i didnt quiet see this earlier. I think there is a need to understand me here. You put too much in my mouth. Pay attention @bold except 'remedy'. Can you give me reference where i made mention of those?. 'Remedy' referring to is what Albaqir perfectly worded. I think you made up the rest base on what you preconceived.

I already used 'sacrifice' or 'sacrificial animal' early but someone appears to misunderstood it(tried to abuse it and give it new meaning). Thats why i chose 'remedy' while replying you. Sometimes, we type base on whats going on in our mind. I dont really quiet get the 'condition' you put fourth. Can you elaborate, pls?

My only understanding is client was advised to buy cow but he bought ram. My intention base on what we did is usually we slaughtered ram when and if dua is not much (usually 300 Yasin and other dua from Hadith). At least 10-15 Alfas needed for this. But we slaughtered cow when we had to recite Yasin 1,111 plus "Jabbar" (multiple times) and khutba of Yasin(multiple times) and other dua from Hadith. In this case, some 30-35 Alfas are needed. Base on this and our experiences, if a client is advised to buy cow instead of ram, perhaps, you can see the difference?.

If you still cant see why ram would die before we finish, then you need to study power (impact)of Yasin. Yasin grips. Believe it or not. But at the same time, Allah knows and destined the ram would have passed away anyways before we done with prayers. So whats the big deal here?. But if you talking about other condition that i am not aware of, kindly let me know. Shukran

You also talk about acceptance or no acceptance of prayer. When we organized prayer like this, we had absolutely no doubt of its acceptance whether Ram was enough or not. Again you preconceived this. My personal opinion is it's appropriate to allow blood of aqiqah to flow (that we can see it).

But if client buys ram instead cow, we believe that strength of Sura Yasin and Jabbar are too much for that. By the time ram is slaughtered, no blood gushes out (that's just the simple truth. Believe it or not). The whole thing turns white. Ram is clinically dead. It has nothing to do with prayer being accepted or not. We believe our prayers are accepted already.

We believe that if our prayers were not going to be accepted, we would not be able to sit for it until appropriate time destined by Him(azal'wajal). We used to say this a lot. When we finally sit and pray, we have guarantee. There is always signs of Allah. We call on Allah not shaytan. Not Jinn. Shukran