SEE WHAT AM SEEING
https://www.nairaland.com/2052203/jesus-answer-jinn-problem#29036705

tola9ja:
SEE WHAT AM SEEING
https://www.nairaland.com/2052203/jesus-answer-jinn-problem#29036705

Lol

Empiree:
Lol

YOU NEVER SLEEP

tola9ja:

YOU NEVER SLEEP

Lol. I am at different time zone. Thats why it looks like that to you

tbaba1234:
There are only two options for the unseen that a muslim needs to know about, angels and jinns. If another genre was important for us to know about, we would have been told.

I. When angels appear to ordinary people, they do so in complete human form and for a specific purpose. They do not keep appearing to people when that purpose is fulfilled, no matter how much Quran you recite. The angels are present but not visible unless a particular message is to be delivered.

Their appearance has no purpose continously because one is already blessed by their unseen presence.

Not even in the time of the sahaba, which the prophet described as the best generation did you have angels visiting multiple people because they recited Quran.


Ii. The jinns are all around us and are interacted with more often.

It is obvious to me that the ruhaniyah are most likely from the second genre, the jinn, given

I. The frequency of appearance

Ii. The lack of a defined purpose.

I do think that many get lost into contacting an evil jinn thinking they are contacting 'ruhaniyah'. They get deceived into sins as a result.

That is why such communication is not even permissible.

How do you distinguish one from the other??

Muslims, please refer back to the basics of your deen for guidance. I beg you.

Salam.

When you use the word ONLY, it sounds so absolute to me. And I would agree if the Quran says something to this effect. However, I don't subscribe to thinking that my own version/understanding of the deen is the only right way and ALLAH knows best.
I would suggest that arguments do not help us much as muslims. In this thread, we have been able to learn a few things, (or at least I have)

1. No one here supports praying in the nude as it is unIslamic
2. It is a bad idea to pray and do Dhikrs for any other purposes other than to earn the pleasure of ALLAH; just to be close to him
3. Meddling with jinns by using prayers (or other Arabic non muslim texts aka ofo) to run errands for you is UNISLAMIC
4. When you get closer to Allah, all other things are made easy for you
5. Only Allah knows your intention (better than you) when you engage in plenty acts of worship


May Allah make us of those who are truly successful in this world and the next, Amin.

^Ameen

ayinba1:


When you use the word ONLY, it sounds so absolute to me. And I would agree if the Quran says something to this effect. However, I don't subscribe to thinking that my own version/understanding of the deen is the only right way and ALLAH knows best.
I would suggest that arguments do not help us much as muslims. In this thread, we have been able to learn a few things, (or at least I have)

1. No one here supports praying in the nude as it is unIslamic
2. It is a bad idea to pray and do Dhikrs for any other purposes other than to earn the pleasure of ALLAH; just to be close to him
3. Meddling with jinns by using prayers (or other Arabic non muslim texts aka ofo) to run errands for you is UNISLAMIC
4. When you get closer to Allah, all other things are made easy for you
5. Only Allah knows your intention (better than you) when you engage in plenty acts of worchip


May Allah make us of those who are truly successful in this world and the next, Amin.

Ameen

If you know of any other, outlined in the Quran and Sunnah please tell me.

Whenever the term ruh is used in the Quran, it is only in two contexts. Angel or Soul. Unless ofcourse, you want to seperate the context from the narration. If we needed to know about about other unseen creatures necessary for our spirituality, it would have been revealed. Our rasul would have told us. It does not mean they do not exist. It just means, we do not need them for our spirituality in this dunya.

It is not always true that things get easier for you if you get closer to Allah, sometimes they get tougher. When Allah loves a slave, He tests him. The prophets had difficult lives, very difficult lives. It does not always get easier in a dunya sense.

This is a dangerous concept being promoted, That is the only reason, i even engaged in a conversation. That a jinn does not harm you does not mean you should be communicating with it. Seek refuge with Allah and ask it to leave. You do not need it for anything.

There are alfas that brag about seeing these things as a show of their spirituality particularly in yoruba land (or maybe Nigeria, in general). It seems seeing unseen creatures is now a measure of spirituality, There is no such precedent of this in Islam otherwise scholars of the past would write about this. It would be in the narrations of hadith. Nothing.

If evidence is shown, i will not hesitate to accept. It is not about argument for me.

I have spoken enough.

May Allah be with us all.

@empiree no need for me to dissect your reply as we would just continue going on and on. Because i can easily say it means the prayers your alfa prays is for rich people who can buy cow as if you can only afford chicken you cant recite the yasin the number of times you mentioned, plus the jabbar and the rest, which also is problematic.
You used the word REMEDY saying it was to calm Yasin thats very powerful.

Ps note this isnt just about sacrifice.

And their is no need claiming i dont understand, this is not the first time i am hearing about yasin, although its the first time i am reading all this attachment to it.

^Even an animal dying for no reason shows jinn activity. It must be 'a cow'?? really?? Should a person not sacrifice according to his means? Are we not told in the Quran that it is the piety that Allah is concerned with, not the blood?

So many problematic things, here.

Sissie:
@empiree no need for me to dissect your reply as we would just continue going on and on. Because i can easily say it means the prayers your alfa prays is for rich people who can buy cow as if you can only afford chicken you cant recite the yasin the number of times you mentioned, plus the jabbar and the rest, which also is problematic.
You used the word REMEDY saying it was to calm Yasin thats very powerful.

Ps note this isnt just about sacrifice.
And their is no need claiming i dont understand, this is not the first time i am hearing about yasin, although its the first time i am reading the whole attachment to it.

Let me be very frank. Enough said. This platform is for learning purposes. I have seen clearly how folks can not control whats going on their heart before concluding. This is internet. It's way too different from face to face convos.

For you to make such statement @bold without ever being there in person is very unfortunate. All kinds of people came and were helped. At this point, I'd stop here cus you guys, I mean you and tbaba made up your mind and take things too serious and ended up making wrong judgement all the times. I have no time narrating everything exactly as xyz.

Clearly you have no practical experience. If not, you would understood certain coded words here. This is so sad. I only sensed Albaqir,kazlaw2000 and lanrexlan reading (almost) exactly my mind. They seem to understand a lot better. There is nothing to gain from rigidity at all.

Our disagreement here doesnt mean we have to put on boxing gloves. Knowledge is broad. There are lots and lots Alim out there. But you not ready for them. I repeat you do not have clue where my narrative heading. At least you confessed knowing a lot more to Yasin. Yoruba adage says "seeing is believing". You not there. You just reading my comments here which is not xyz. Sorry it ends this way.

I feel absolutely no guilt about my narrative. I may have chose inappropriate words to describe my experience but the fact is many have learned a lot more here. This is way better than telling people this hadith is weak or fabricated. That hadith is fabricated or weak. Thats like discouraging muslims. And tbaba1234 still clings on to Jinn Jinn Jinn. Brother have no clue at all. Truly it's peity that reaches Allah not blood. But since tbaba have no idea the essence of Yasin, it's lame excuse to claim it's Jinn at work sucking blood of aqiqa.

And tbaba1234, you need to provide adequate evidence of your statement above, otherwise, you may be committing act of zulm by saying that. Our sacrifices were done for Allah. We slaughtered those animals in Allah's name. If you believe it's still Jinn at work after prayers and all that already accepted, then your aqeeda stands on very shaky ground. You were not there. You dont know. It's that simple. This is why those people dont talk about their personal experience. The man himself doenst talk about it. I chose to. And you started it by condemning Ahadith that i quoted, vehemently declaring it daef or fabricated based on invented "science of hadith" which did not come from Allah. Then I presented my practical experience to counter. And now it's Jinn at work?

This is clearly lack of practical experience. Walaikum Salam

Actually you arw the serious one, its obvious you are already getting angry. You too are rigid, so rigid. Rigidity goes both ways dude.
Calm down already, control? Haha you are hilarious.

"Practical experience" sad?


You cant defend your own views when asked questions with out going

Me as calm as calm can be. Where will i get the time to fight?

You dont know what i have experienced, dont assume you do.

Chill ko le to ye (Its not that serious) did i get the yoruba?

tbaba1234:
^Even an animal dying for no reason shows jinn activity. It must be 'a cow'?? really?? Should a person not sacrifice according to his means? Are we not told in the Quran that it is the piety that Allah is concerned with, not the blood?

So many problematic things, here.

He said the client is adviced to buy cow, which means its not very affordable, since the chicken and goat will just die. And he is getting worked up i said it is for the rich.

More prove its very problematic.

tbaba1234:




If you know of any other, outlined in the Quran and Sunnah please tell me.

You've forgotten Qur'an many atimes doesn't mention names. The reason why Jinn is mentioned in particular is because we share the same earthly world though there's boundary between us just like Allah set unseen boundary between us and wild animals. Boundaries can be cross accidentally or for a specific purpose or even criminally.

tbaba1234:

Whenever the term ruh is used in the Quran, it is only in two contexts. Angel or Soul. Unless ofcourse, you want to seperate the context from the narration.

@underline, meaning? Are ever suggesting "Ruh" could either be Angel or Soul?

It is obvious you are either ignorant of what you say or stubbornly bent to stick with a certain ideology/interpretation.

Qur'an mention "Qalb", "Nafs", and "Ruh'". Translators chose to translate the three as "heart", "Soul" and "Spirit" respectively but indeed each is more than that.

Allah describe Qalb and Nafs in many ways. Likewise "Ruh".

According to the Qur'an:
* "Ruh" is breath into man when he was non-living and he became living.

* "Ruh Qudus", a more elevated Ruh is used to strengthened devout servants of God. Just like "Sakina" is sometimes being sent into the heart of Mu'min to strengthen is Iman.

* "Angels and "Ruh" are mentioned separately in the same line e.g Qur'an says "To Him ascend the Angels and the Ruh...~sura al-Maarij:4
*******************
"The Angels and Ruh descend in it by permission of their Lord..."

"Angels (malaika)" were described severally in the Qur'an e.g "All praise is due to Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, the Maker of the angels, messengers flying on wings, two, and three, and four..."
~Sura al-Fatir:1

And in contrast, Allah describe "Ruh" in a glimpse:
"And they ask you about "Ruh". Say: 'al-Ruh' is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little" ~sura al-Isra: 85
NB: Being 'command of Allah', this is what was sent to Maryam (as) instead of an Angel. ~sura Maryam: 16 - 19.

I'm disappointed sometimes when translators mixing words. Some will translate "Ruh" as soul, some as "spirit", the same translators in different verses sometimes will use both for "Ruh".

tbaba1234 suggesting or insinuating "Ruh" to be Angels or Soul is ignorance.

tbaba1234:

If we needed to know about about other unseen creatures necessary for our spirituality, it would have been revealed.

It was revealed. And it started with the best of man (peace be on him and his household) whom Qur'an gave as the best example in all ramifications for whoever believe in Allah and the hereafter.

Qur'an:
"Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing"

On his journey, he came across MANY MANY things and the purpose of this spirituality is what is underlined in the verse above^

Other verses reads:
"All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the worlds"

"Glory be to Him Who created pairs of all things, of what the earth grows, and of their kind and of what they do not know"

Just as you've said, knowing (maarifah) these worlds is not obligatory on every muslim. What is mandatory on ALL believers is "Intellectual maarifa (knowledge) of Allah". Only few through extras are into "Spiritual/Experiential Maarifa of Allah", and there's no way you approach the Owner of the creations without passing across and knowing His creatures.

tbaba1234:

Our rasul would have told us. It does not mean they do not exist. It just means, we do not need them for our spirituality in this dunya.

How many among every tom, dick and harry will ever comprehend the description of the Unseen worlds and creatures? Even ordinary A, B, C of the saying of the Prophet is not understood fully by many sahaba, and later generations.

Amazingly, the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) narrate some of his experience and encounters to every tom, dick and harry. And remember he will only narrate what the senses of generalities can comprehend. What he saw were beyond what was documented. The holy Prophet (peace be on him and his household) then said:
"Salat is the Miraj of every muslim"
You are expected to see many things on the quest to Allah depending on the degree of your Iman and Ihsan. The point is do not be distracted or carried away for your ultimate is Haqiqi (reality) and that is Allah.

To witness Ayat (signs) of Allah is to increase one's Maarifa of Allah, then you become closer and closer to Him.

- General Muslims are *Servants of God.
- Then we have *Devoted Servants
- Then we have *Friends of Allah
- Then we have *Beloved of Allah
- Then we have *Muqarabuns (closest to Allah)

tbaba1234:

This is a dangerous concept being promoted, That is the only reason, i even engaged in a conversation. That a jinn does not harm you does not mean you should be communicating with it. Seek refuge with Allah and ask it to leave. You do not need it for anything.

You are simply twisting words trying to see sympathizers and advocator
s. People are not stupid so don't treat viewers or readers here as your madrasa students.

This is an healthy discussion that I believe might have increase many in knowledge. Nobody advice communicating with the jinns et al. Part of what we advice is if that a good muslim if encounter anything in the course of his ibaadat should seek Allah's refuge just like Maryam did, according to Qur'an. If the 'thing' is from his Lord, they will get acquainted. If it is not, in sha Allah, with the sincerity of the 'Abd, the 'thing' will disappear.

tbaba1234:

There are alfas that brag about seeing these things as a show of their spirituality particularly in yoruba land (or maybe Nigeria, in general). It seems seeing unseen creatures is now a measure of spirituality, There is no such precedent of this in Islam otherwise scholars of the past would write about this. It would be in the narrations of hadith. Nothing.

Ma sha Allah. This is Haqq, and we've said this repeatedly: lanrexlan, Empiree, Albaqir and many have said these. Perhaps you just scroll. Nobody is trying to get credit here other than increasing our knowledge. What we have out there is not only in diversity but also scary and confusing. Sharing thought and taught together with our intellect will surely arrive us at a better place, in sha Allah.

tbaba1234:
Should a person not sacrifice according to his means? Are we not told in the Quran that it is the piety that Allah is concerned with, not the blood?

Haqq.

Sissie:

Chill [size=25pt]ko le to ye (Its not that serious) did i get the yoruba?[/size]

Ma'am are you a Yoruba woman or you just understand Yoruba

AlBaqir:


Ma'am are you a Yoruba woman or you just understand Yoruba

I am partly yoruba from my mother's side.

Empiree, I've read your reply. Thanks.

Albaqir, that your mention of Ruhanah (story of Maryam) really got me thinking. Thanks for sharing.

There really is a lot to learn, and we'll never learn if we keep thinking what we know is all there is......

Empiree:
Lol. I am at different time zone. Thats why it looks like that to you

WHICH COUNTRY

Hkana:
Empiree, I've read your reply. Thanks.

Albaqir, that your mention of Ruhanah (story of Maryam) really got me thinking. Thanks for sharing.

There really is a lot to learn, and we'll never learn if we keep thinking what we know is all there is......

Ruhanah is jubril. Jubril is referred to as ruh in the Quran.

This is according to the commentaries of the Quran. This is how the scholars have intepreted it.

The only things described as ruh are jubril or the human soul.

There are other things created and you can even make an argument for alien life from the Quran.

However, as far as spirituality and the unseen are concerned. We have been given the knowledge useful to us.

tbaba1234:


Ruhanah is jubril. Jubril is referred to as ruh in the Quran.

This is according to the commentaries of the Quran. This is how the scholars have intepreted it.

The only things described as ruh are jubril or the human soul.

Qur'an says: "Say: produce your proof if you are truthful"

The best you can offer is @underline. And I say "that commentaries of yours" and "scholars of yours" are just views not mandated on us.

Provide for us from the Qur'an and ahadith (even daeef will do) where Allah and His Prophet (peace be on him and his household) interpret "Ruh" to be Jubril or angels?

Why do you think we have different Tafsirs? Each scholars brings out his view in accordance to his understanding. A sensible muslim do not fanatically adhere to a view rather will compare and contrast to reach the truth.

Besides your commentaries and scholars only follow conjectures with no proof whereas Qur'an is crystal clear about Ruh.

Allah says He breathe "Ruh" into man and man became living. Was "Jubril" the one being breathe into man?

The Muqarabun are said, by the Qur'an, to be strengthened by "Ruh'ul Qudus". Was "Jubril" the one referring to?

tbaba1234, interpretations are many. Even "Nafs" alone is defined and interpreted in many ways.

Sissie:


I am partly yoruba from my mother's side.

Ma sha Allah.

Hkana:


Albaqir, that your mention of Ruhanah (story of Maryam) really got me thinking. Thanks for sharing.

There really is a lot to learn, and we'll never learn if we keep thinking what we know is all there is......

Ma sha Allah brother. Please don't just think about "Ruhanah" alone, we also have, according to Qur'an, (ordinary)'Ruh' breathe into inanimate to become living, then "Ruh' al-Qudus".

Whatever your thought is on "Ruh'", then the conclusion is clear in the Qur'an:
"They ask thee concerning Ruh'. Say (O Muhammad): "al-Ruh' is of command of my Lord: Of knowledge, it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men)."
Note however, Ruh' is not angels or Jubril in particular. Angels are created from Light (Noor), and they have wings in pairs etc. Ruh' is not defined.

May Allah give us His taofeek to understand His ayat.

Wa Salam alaykum

AlBaqir:


Qur'an says: "Say: produce your proof if you are truthful"

The best you can offer is @underline. And I say "that commentaries of yours" and "scholars of yours" are just views not mandated on us.

Provide for us from the Qur'an and ahadith (even daeef will do) where Allah and His Prophet (peace be on him and his household) interpret "Ruh" to be Jubril or angels?

Why do you think we have different Tafsirs? Each scholars brings out his view in accordance to his understanding. A sensible muslim do not fanatically adhere to a view rather will compare and contrast to reach the truth.

Besides your commentaries and scholars only follow conjectures with no proof whereas Qur'an is crystal clear about Ruh.

Allah says He breathe "Ruh" into man and man became living. Was "Jubril" the one being breathe into man?

The Muqarabun are said, by the Qur'an, to be strengthened by "Ruh'ul Qudus". Was "Jubril" the one referring to?

tbaba1234, interpretations are many. Even "Nafs" alone is defined and interpreted in many ways.

Commentaries do not follow conjecture, they are usually based on evidences/hints from the sunnah or even the grammar from the text. There are some that make conjecture but most commentaries try to give a reason for their position.

In this case, there is evidence.
Hassan ibn Thabit (rd) in his poem says:

"Whether anyone amongst you (the Quraysh) chooses to satirise the Messenger of Allah, or praise him, or help him, it is all the same, And Gabriel who is the Emissary of Allah, is with us, and indeed the Ruh Al-Qudus has no match" (Sahih Muslim, The Book of Companions of the Prophet, 6550,)

In Surah Qadr, Allah talks about the Angels and the Ruh coming down.

Anas narrates that the prophet said:

"When the Night of Qadr comes, Jubril descends on the earth with a huge throng of angels and all of them pray for every servant of Allah, man or woman. busy in salah or dhikr to be blessed by Allah. (Mazhari)

More proof:

Al-Bukhari recorded `A'ishah saying that the Messenger of Allah erected a Minbar in the Masjid on which Hassan bin Thabit (the renowned poet) used to defend the Messenger of Allah (with his poems). The Messenger of Allah said, "O Allah! Aid Hassan with Ruh Al-Qudus, for he defended Your Prophet."(fn. Fath Al-Bari 10:562).

Abu Dawud recorded this Hadith in his Sunan (fn. Abu Dawud 5:279) as did At-Tirmidhi who graded it Hasan Sahih (fn. Tuhfat Al-Ahwadhi 8:137). Further, Ibn Hibban recorded in his Sahih that Ibn Mas`ud said that the Prophet said, "Ruh Al-Qudus informed me that no soul shall die until it finishes its set provisions and term limit. Therefore, have Taqwa of Allah and seek your sustenance in the most suitable way."(fn. See As-Sunnah 14:304).(Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, 2000, vol. 1, pp. 288-289)

We know the prophet got revelation from Jubril from hadith literature.

In the Quran Allah says:

Verily, this [Qur'an] is a revelation of the Lord of the Worlds brought down by the trustworthy ruh." (Surah al-Shu'ara; 26:192-193)

This is an indication that the ruh is Jubril.

It is because of narrations and evidences like the above that the majority of scholars state that the ruh is Jubril.

In Maariful Quran, a tafsir by Mufti Muhammad Shafi on Mariam's visit by the ruh:

A majority of scholars hold the view that the Ruh is Jubril but some say it is sayyidna Eesa himself and that Allahh placed before Maryam , the likeness of her son. But the former version (that it is Jubril) is more appropriate and is confirmed by the statement that follows:

"He took before her the form of a perfect human" (19:17)

It is not given to a human being to see an angel in its real form because he will be overwhelmed by fright at such an experience. This indeed is, what happened to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) in the cave Hiraon his first encounter with angel Jubril and again later on.

You are correct that the Ruh can be used in different context but it is clear from the evidences we have stronger evidences to believe, it was Jubril mentioned as the Ruh in the Quran.

In the Quran, there are two contexts:

i. The Soul

ii. Angel Jubril.

In the Quran, there are two contexts:

i. The Soul

ii. Angel Jubril.

So when Allah says, we have not been given knowledge of the Ruh.

What is the Ruh? The human being will exhaust his studies in psychology, all these universities and researchers trying to figure out: what is the human personality? There is still no consensus of what the human personality is. There are multiple definitions in psychology.

We do not understand the nature of the human soul. There is no agreement because the human personality is rooted in the Ruh.

They ask you [O Muhammad (saws] concerning the Ruh . Say: 'It is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given very little."

[Qur'an Al-Israa 17: 85]

That is an explanation that fits into this context. The interpretation of Ruh is dependent on the context in which it is used.

Ibn Kathir, Ibn Jarir, Al Qurtubi, Abu Hayyan etc all confirm the view that it has to do with the living ruh in us. We have been given what is necessary for us to know about the ruh and the rest is with Allah.

Even if you interpret it as Jubril, it means we have some knowledge but we do not know much about him. The knowledge is limited.

Hkana:

Albaqir, that your mention of Ruhanah (story of Maryam) really got me thinking. Thanks for sharing.

There really is a lot to learn, and we'll never learn if we keep thinking what we know is all there is......

Commentaries by early muslims are not absolute and binding. Quran is still here with us. Early muslims did their best. Dont just stick to their tafsir. Things evolve overtime. Usually muslims read English translation and we always come across Angel Gabriel in place of Ruh used in arabic text. But Albaqir came up with research, suggesting it might not be Angel or Jubril afterall. Thats a good thought. I no longer hold tafsir absolute. There are things they translated that perfectly fit their understanding at that time.

Let me give you example. Go to sura Ambiya 95-96. Read many different commentary as you can compare to modern time, you will find mistakes in their understanding. I notice that 5 yrs ago through Sheik Imran Hussein. But someone like tbaba may say Imran Hussein is conspiracy theorist. Thats irrelevant. My point is Quran is to be understood as things evolve. NOT rigid. This is why till today, Salafis do not understand what the man is saying because they hold on to centuries old tafsir.

Now dont get me wrong. Early interpretation are very much necessary but I am saying they are not absolute. There are verses that need to be reinterpreted/re-translated in our time. And it doesnt change original Arabic text. Since i notice sura 21, 95-96 i know there is possibility of mistakes elsewhere. This doesnt mean early muslims were deficient in their understanding. Rather because of inavailability of the data at that time.

Be truthful to yourself, in the verse pointed out by Albaqir, did Allah use 'Malaika' or 'Jibril'?. Even Quran that I have here printed in the kingdom of Saud argues about "Ruh" in the beginning of the page. My point is dont take every tafsir absolute. Knowledge is broad. We discover things in the Quran we knew not before. Thats is why Sheik Adam Al-ilory probably said

And I am a salafi as long as salafiyya refers to holding to the Sacred Law with practices based on what is flexible and evolving rather than that which is rigid and narrow

^ Empiree, like i say, Interpretation is based on evidence. When you read tafsir, you do not agree or disagree with it based on the fancy stories. You do so based on the strength of evidence. This is Islam.

It is that evidence that you have failed to provide.

tbaba1234:
^ Empiree, like i say, Interpretation is based on evidence. When you read tafsir, you do not agree or disagree with it based on the fancy stories. You do so based on the strength of evidence. This is Islam.

It is that evidence that you have failed to provide.

^evidence regarding what specifically?

Empiree:
^evidence regarding what specifically?

The 'Ruhaniyah' and its precedence.. Not stories and not something appealing to ambiguity. perceived or real.

Real evidence that this phenomenon is backed by the Quran and the sunnah. Evidence that is 'lower angel' or 'neither angel or jinn' from the sunnah and the Quran. Evidence that this is given to the righteous people based on their worship from the Quran and sunnah. Evidence that is triggered by recited a particular dhikr from the Quran and sunnah or even from a well-known scholar of the past.

Its time to end this arguement by saying Wallahu a'lam. WALLAHU A'LAM (Allaah knows best).

kazlaw2000:
Its time to end this arguement by saying Wallahu a'lam. WALLAHU A'LAM (Allaah knows best).

You are right. Further posts better be informational only, please, NOT argumentative.

@tbaba
I only stated my understanding, I am not a scholar so unfortunately I am unable to provide what you asked for and Allah knows best. Thanks

^ tbaba1234, actually, I already typed stuff but upon realizing kazlaw2000's post, I have to agree with him. Sorry. pls do your independent research and that closes everything. I think there is a need to adopt terminology on this subject. I wish you speak yoruba. You could have perhaps, understood lecture by Sheik Daud Alfa nla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dauxhx7hA8o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYYCDgea6z4

Empiree:
^ tbaba1234, actually, I already typed stuff but upon realizing kazlaw2000's post, I have to agree with him. Sorry. pls do your independent research and that closes everything. I think there is a need to adopt terminology on this subject. I wish you speak yoruba. You could have perhaps, understood lecture by Sheik Daud Alfa nla

Did i not say that i am not yoruba? If the evidence is on the video then type some of it for me.

We have to learn to seek evidence and ask the right questions particularly when it comes to Islam because the Quran and the sunnah are there for our guidance. We have to always refer back to it. If stories were just it, there would be no need to verify hadiths or interpret them based on the Quran.

All i have asked for is evidence and we have gone multiple pages with none provided except attempts to appeal to ambiguities and more stories.

Oh well, Allah certainly knows best.