The article is very interesting and educative . I just want to ask KunleOshob a question. Let assume you are call by God to do his work like be a pastor or open a church of your own when you are not working, how would you go about it?


Just curious to know.

amaikama,

I beleive your question has been answered somewhere in the now 11 pages of this thread as reference was made to Apostle Paul's ministry.
You may do yourself a lot of favour by reading his Epistles to get the needed understanding and knowledge to derive the needed response to your question. You will discover that he received gifts and offerings from time to time and thanked those who gave them to him. He did not request nor did he receive tithes. He also worked as a net maker every now & then to supplement the offerings he received even though he lived a meek, humble lifestyle of basics. The other Apostles also did not request nor receive tithes going through the book of Acts.
Have a blessed weekend.

@amaikama
Well i see that my brother anonimi has already answered the question directed to me on my behalf, but to add to that i would state that even if a church as un met real needs, it is very wrong and against every thing the bible stands for, for a pastor to deceive the congregation in to parting with 10% of their income. If the pastor really practises what he preaches, then he should live by faith and God shall meet all his needs. Besides, i believe the offerings being collected in the church should suffice for running the church, after all there are a good number of churches were tithing is not practised andthey are being well run.

Paul received gifts and offering for himself?? from time to time?? :oWhere do you people keep getting this hallucinations?
If I can remember well,I think Paul wrote that he did the exact opposite.well,I see the , my pastor will not neva tell me about tithes.
fact is the church is run with money wether tithes,offerings gifts etc.Its ignorance or spiritual immaturity that makes people not want to think church runs with moni/to place over emphasis on money.

Thithing was Only directed to the old testament people, but once your pastor has ratified it, it becomes a law in a way!! its not a dirct law its only ratified.so its either good nor bad!!

A pastor has no right to ratify what is not required of as christians, this was clearly stated in Hebrews 7: 11-13, if however a pastor decideds to "ratify" it, then i think the ideal thing would be to practise it as it was done in the bible which was agricutral produce, offered once a year or every third year (Depending on the type of tithe) the tither and his family should also eat out of it, also the poor and the less priviledge should share out of it. If a pastor wants to adopt or ratify tithing in his church (which is not required of us as christians) he shoul do it in the biblical way.

@Image 123
Can you quote the bible passage that Paul did the exact opposite??

Passage Matthew 15:8-9:

8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings(tithing) are but rules taught by men.'[a]"

Whether tithing is biblical or not, what is so difficult about giving 10% of your income to the God that gave you that money in the first place?

RedHotChic:

Whether tithing is biblical or not, what is so difficult about giving 10% of your income to the God that gave you that money in the first place?

In answer to this question. 1) You are not giving the money to God as God as no need of it, the money is being given to our church/pastor who needs it. 2) Tithing as it is being preached in churches today is fraudulent interpretation of biblical tithing and i beleive people should be told the truth by the church, what i mean to say is that if the church engages in deception/ fraud is that not what christianity preaches against in the first instance. 3) If you know the truth about tithes as defined in the scriptures and you know it is not required of you as a christian but you still decide to give a certain percentage of your income to towards the work of God (and God's work includes giving to the less priviledge) God would definitely bless you.
My grouse is that the church should stop deceiving people into beleiving tithing is required of them by God and that is what this thread is all about. "THE TRUTH ABOUT TITHES"

RedHotChic:

Whether tithing is biblical or not, what is so difficult about giving 10% of your income to the God that gave you that money in the first place?

Kindly explain exactly how you will give it to God please?
- Through burnt offerings on the altar as done by Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc
- Apportioining, as led by the Holy Spirit, to your priest (pastor), orphans, widows, strangers and the poor See Deut. 14: 22-29 and other Biblical passages on Godly giving.
- or some other manner that is not described above?

RedHotChic:

Whether tithing is biblical or not, what is so difficult about giving 10% of your income to the God that gave you that money in the first place?

Kindly confirm if you are indeed a Bible believing CHRISTian please

Brethren, thithes are just a mischievious means to milk willing worshippers dry. Does God personnally spend money? Why couldn't the pastors believe that 'my God will provide for me according to his richies in glory, ' God will judge us all.

Dear all, I love God with all my heart, even though I tend to be stubborn at times but He has shown the He loves me too by sparing my life 2 times. The truth of the matter is:
WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!!!!!!
This is the principle I live by and always will live by. Even if you come across a helpless man on the road and spare 100 bucks to help his situation, you are giving to the Lord.
"ABOVE ALL IS LOVE".

Hey kunle. Which church do you attend?

@oghos2k
I attend a baptist church, even then tithing is encouraged in my church i am just a liberal minded person

can we talk on a real chat . yahoo mesenger. oghos2003 buzz me

i quite agree with you that tithe paying is a sin for christians. It was authorised under the Old law and we aint in tht dispensation now. Tithe was being payed to the priests then. We were told in Ipet 2:9 that we are all priest. But it was never recorded that priests paid tithe to themselves. Hence we cant pay tithe to anyone today.

These days, one doesn't know who to believe again, I've heard evil things from some so called Pastors, that at the end of the day, the best place to learn from is God's word, and believe you me , I'll rather learn directly from Jesus mouth than Malachi's mouth.

Even Jesus said he wouldn't "invalidate" tithing, but he said as we tithe, we also do those which are more important.

Now Check this out , these are words from Christ's mouth himself , undiluted mate ,

Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe [/u]of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, [u]without leaving the others undone.

This simply means Christ want us to do Justice, Mercy, Faith , without leaving the place of others , here he refer to as Tithing ,

I know so many of our Pastors attach so many weights on Tithing, maybe it shouldn't be, because he mentioned the word "Tithe" only a very few number of times as recorded. If it were so so so important as today, I believe nearly all New Testament Writers would dedicate at least a chapter to it.

In a nutshell, pay your tithe and forget what happens to it thereafter , leave God to judge the rest. At the end of the day, God loves everyone, both those who pay tithe, and those who don't. God ain't judgmental to allow bad things happen to those who don't , Common guys, even the non-Christians enjoy good things of life. I mean, 70% of the world's wealthiest people aren't Christian , and so? What differs btw us and them is eternal life which is unquatifiable with money. I beg, God causes his rain to fall on both the just and the unjust, the sinners and the righteous , he loves everyone, hence why he sent his son to die for the sins of ALL MEN , that will include the rapists and armed robbers of our time , no LONG THING iBeg

@ Ogosh2k

What did Christ himself say about the Old Testament? ie. the Law ,

Matt 5: 17 - 20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

There is an argument that Christ has already fulfill the law in his death and rising again. But why do Christians of the New Testament after the filling of the Holy Ghost still quote the Old Testament , eg. Peter quoting Joel 2:28-32 in Act 2:17 - 21

But there is another argument that why don't we modern Christians do things like killing of goats, rams, lamb, and allowing only levites to enter Church and tie aprons at their back in case they die , the truth is that Christ has come to die for the sins of all men, ONCE and FOR ALL , he also torn that veil that covers people's face whenever they read the Old testament.

The buttom line is, whenever there is a controversy in any Biblical topic, the best teacher of all the characters in the Bible is Christ himself , read in between his lines , I am yet to see any place where Tithing is classified as a Sin, not by Christ himself anyways.

Allta:


Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you[/color] pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you[color=#990000] ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Dear Allta,

Kindly note from your quote that Jesus Christ was referring to the Pharisees & scribes, as the ones to pay tithes.
The correct identification of those to pay tithes on God's altar is also confirmed in Malachi 1:

6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible.
8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts.
9 And now, I pray you, beseech God that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the Lord of hosts.
10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.
11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.
12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the Lord is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.
13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the Lord of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the Lord.
14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

Kindly go through the whole Malachi to see who God was referring to in the oft-quoted, much-abused Malachi 3: 8-12.

@all who does not belive in tithe : Do you believe in the Old testament or Not, because Christ himself quoted the old testament, Peter quoted it too in acts.
Why am i saying this, Abraham was not a priest and he paid tithe, so who says tithe is for priests alone? I am also very confused about your arguements that God was speaking to the Isrealites, what happened to the scripture that says our commonwealth has changed as a result of our being born again? also I am not a very good Bible student but I think all these things I have posted here are scriptures. I dont want to argue with you so please dont expect that I will reply to your subsequest posts. no i wont do that because again I think it was said somewhere in the Bible that we should not engage in vain talks.

@all who believes in tithe : If anyone know the truth and doeth it not to him it is sin

javarules:

Why am i saying this, Abraham was not a priest and he paid tithe, so who says tithe is for priests alone?

Read Genesis 14 very well on the above and you will realise that Abraham paid a tenth (tithe?) of his war booty only ONCE. Jacob also made a vow in Genesis 28:

22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

These instances do not and cannot be interpreted as practice of tithe giving. We are expected to give freely any %age be it more or less than 10% as the Spirit leads us.
Shalom.

ah na wa o.

Everybody keeps talking about deutoronmy this, leviticus that.

Ok to pay tithes is to pay one tenth of what God gives you. In those days it was goats, grains, and more. Today it is our income.

People the idea of giving one tenth to God did not start in leviticus or deutoronmy as everyone is arguing on.
Jacob himself gave tithes. It was not called tithes, but hey tithes are a tenth of what our blessings are.

Genesis28: 22

This stone that I have set up as a memorial stone shall be God's abode. Of everything you give me, I will faithfully return a tenth part to you.

The law of tithing was not giving then, but Jacob himself knew it was only proper and respectful and a way of showing gratitude to God, by giving a portion of it back to God. Notice he mentioned this after he set up a memorial for God's abode. God's abode is the altar, sanctuary.

If you don't want to tithe, don't. it's not b force, but it is only rewarding.

anonimi:

Read Genesis 14 very well on the above and you will realise that Abraham paid a tenth (tithe?) of his war booty only ONCE. Jacob also made a These instances do not and cannot be interpreted as [b]practice of tithe giving,

@anonimi
Why keep saying "read very well this", "read very well that" as if you people are the only one that knows how well to read the Bible.
Why not allow the Holy Spirit to lead you in understanding the scriptures? and stop saying "read very well". No matter how well you may think you know how to read, you can never understand write that which is written by the Spirit.

anonimi:

We are expected to give freely any %age be it more or less than 10% as the Spirit leads us.

How much did you want us to believe that what you are giving presently as led by the "spirit" is not what you are led to give by your carnal nature. I mean from the way you people are totally against ordinary 10%, can you even give 1% if allow to decide?

~Lady~:


Ok to pay tithes is to pay one tenth of what God gives you. In those days it was goats, grains, and more. Today it is our income.

That statement you are making is an assumption which the church uses to justify the collection of tithes in cash and it is very far from the truth. Contrary to that deception money was freely in use at that time. there is mention of money in the book of deurteronomy, numbers, leviticus and exodus which were the books written by Moses whom God defined Tithes to. Tithes was strictly farm produce, people never tithed there money or from other source apart from the produce of their farms. work men never tithed, carpenters never tithed(Jesus was carpenter), fisher men never tithed and then the tithe meant for the store house of God was collected every three years which was the year of tithing in the bible not every week/ month in monetary form as is being done today.

That statement you are making is an assumption which the church uses to justify the collection of tithes in cash and it is very far from the truth

What part of tithe is giving back what God gives to you?
I said in that time it is in the part of goats and more, today it is in the form of income. No where did I mention money. No pastor told me anything, stop assuming people are stupid and cannot read the Bible for themselves and know the truth.

For me today what God gives to me as an income is not goats, cows, or grains, but a paycheck and from that I give to God. If you determine that yout income is in the form of goats, then go ahead and give goats to the house of God.

The passage I quoted if you looked at it will see that pastors don't quote that. Honestly in my Church there is no puch for tithes. You pay it if you want, you don't if you don't. It's not like the Priest is telling you you must give your tithes and that makes the heart of the messages we received in mass.

Contrary to that deception money was freely in use at that time. there is mention of money in the book of deurteronomy, numbers, leviticus and exodus which were the books written by Moses whom God defined Tithes to.

Where did this conspiracy come from? What pastor or Priest has come up to say that money was not in existence? WHy do claim a conspiracy that is not there?
You're saying "that is what your pastors want you to believe" Did it ever occur to you that people, after reading the Bible, decides ok, well money is the easiest way of me giving tithes, money is the form in which I receive an income and it is the easiest way I can pay my tithes, rather than buying a goat and laying it at the altar. Our times don't allow for goats and cows and animals ad grains to be taken to the altar.

The Lord also said that if you do not own a goat take your money to the temple and buy your goat, my dear do you see goats being sold at the temple today? What I can give I do, in the form that I have.

How do you know they never tithed? What if the carpenter's owned goats they couldn't tithe?
Are you saying that carpenter's never existed in the days of Moses, because everyone was suposed to tithe

@lady
you have just finally convinced me that you don't understand the concept of true biblical tithing. Tithing in the bible had nothing to do with one's income and it was not meant for every body, it was strictly produce of the land or the tenth domestic animal that passed under the rod. nothing else was acceptable as tithes and if you deed not produce from the land or had over ten domestic animals you were not required to tithe. I think you should go a do a thorough study of all the original scriptures that defined tithes, instead of just relying on mis-information circulating in the church about tithes. mind you i have no objection to one giving any percentage of his/her income to the church freely, i am just embarassed as a christian that some churches have to twist the word of God to manipulate people in to parting with there money, the Church should be above board and should not engage in deception just to raise money for "God's work"

instead of just relying on mis-information circulating in the church about tithes.

who told you I got information about tithes from the Church? Did it ever occur to you that I read and this is what I concluded from my readings?

mind you i have no objection to one giving any percentage of his/her income to the church freely, i am just embarassed as a christian that some churches have to twist the word of God to manipulate people in to parting with there money, the Church should be above board and should not engage in deception just to raise money for "God's work"

Well thank goodness I don't attend such Church

Tithing in the bible had nothing to do with one's income and it was not meant for every body, it was strictly produce of the land or the tenth domestic animal that passed under the rod.

oh my goodness. It was not just the animals that passes under the rod

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

31And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

32And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD

even, not only. So basically everything of the land, and not just those under the rod.

You know what here's the full deal.

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the LORD by thy estimation.

3And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.

4And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.

5And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.

6And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.

7And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels.

8But if he be poorer than thy estimation, then he shall present himself before the priest, and the priest shall value him; according to his ability that vowed shall the priest value him.

9And if it be a beast, whereof men bring an offering unto the LORD, all that any man giveth of such unto the LORD shall be holy.

10He shall not alter it, nor change it, a good for a bad, or a bad for a good: and if he shall at all change beast for beast, then it and the exchange thereof shall be holy.

11And if it be any unclean beast, of which they do not offer a sacrifice unto the LORD, then he shall present the beast before the priest:

12And the priest shall value it, whether it be good or bad: as thou valuest it, who art the priest, so shall it be.

13But if he will at all redeem it, then he shall add a fifth part thereof unto thy estimation.

14And when a man shall sanctify his house to be holy unto the LORD, then the priest shall estimate it, whether it be good or bad: as the priest shall estimate it, so shall it stand.

15And if he that sanctified it will redeem his house, then he shall add the fifth part of the money of thy estimation unto it, and it shall be his.

16And if a man shall sanctify unto the LORD some part of a field of his possession, then thy estimation shall be according to the seed thereof: an homer of barley seed shall be valued at fifty shekels of silver.

17If he sanctify his field from the year of jubile, according to thy estimation it shall stand.

18But if he sanctify his field after the jubile, then the priest shall reckon unto him the money according to the years that remain, even unto the year of the jubile, and it shall be abated from thy estimation.

19And if he that sanctified the field will in any wise redeem it, then he shall add the fifth part of the money of thy estimation unto it, and it shall be assured to him.

20And if he will not redeem the field, or if he have sold the field to another man, it shall not be redeemed any more.

21But the field, when it goeth out in the jubile, shall be holy unto the LORD, as a field devoted; the possession thereof shall be the priest's.

22And if a man sanctify unto the LORD a field which he hath bought, which is not of the fields of his possession;

23Then the priest shall reckon unto him the worth of thy estimation, even unto the year of the jubile: and he shall give thine estimation in that day, as a holy thing unto the LORD.

24In the year of the jubile the field shall return unto him of whom it was bought, even to him to whom the possession of the land did belong.

25And all thy estimations shall be according to the shekel of the sanctuary: twenty gerahs shall be the shekel.

26Only the firstling of the beasts, which should be the LORD's firstling, no man shall sanctify it; whether it be ox, or sheep: it is the LORD's.

27And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.

28Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.

29None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.

30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

31And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

32And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

33He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.


Dude your profits are what you tithe. Today your profits are your income your paycheck. You tithe your profits.
Abraham tithed the spoils of war, Jacob tithed his possessions. What they possessed then were animals and fruits and land and such and yes even money, notice the shekels that were to be given to God. This was way before it was laid out in law. When Jacob tithed he said a tenth of everything I give. SO if he had money, he gave, goat, he gave, corn, he gave, what he possessed he gave.

Today what people usually possess are income. Average is the dollar, naira pounds, whatever currency.