The exclusive: Buhari bares it all •I won’t forget
what IBB did to me, although I’ve forgiven him
•I’ve not forgiven Obasanjo •My civil war
experiences •No regret shooting cocaine pushers
Ever since the Supreme Court ruled on the 2011
presidential election, former Head of State and
candidate of the Congress for Progressive Change
(CPC), General Muhammadu Buhari, has always
refused to grant an elaborate interview on his
experiences and feelings. However, on the
auspicious occasion of his 70th birthday, Buhari
has finally spoken. In an exclusive interview with
Saturday Sun, he talked about his growing up
days, experiences in the Army, his emergence as
head of state when he never participated in any
coup, the 1966 coup and the counter-coup, the
General Ibrahim Babangida coup that swept him
out of office, the execution of cocaine traffickers,
Decree 4 and the controversial ‘53 suitcases’ that
allegedly came into the country during his
government. He also spoke about his relationship
with General Babangida, who he said he had
forgiven, although he would not forget what he did
to him and his plan for the 2015 elections, among
others. Excerpts: What kind of childhood did you
have? Well, from my father’s side, we are Fulanis.
You know the Fulanis are really divided into two.
There are nomads, the ones that if you drive from
Maiduguri and many parts of the North you will
find. They are even in parts of Delta now. And there
are those who settled. They are cousins and the
same people actually. From my mother’s side and
on her father’s side, we are Kanuris from Kukawa.
Where’s Kukawa? Kukawa is in Borno State. We are
Kanuris. On her mother’s side, we are Hausas. So,
you can see I am Hausa, Fulani, Kanuri combined
(he laughs). I am the 23rd child of my father.
Twenty-third and the 13th on my mother side.
There are only two of us remaining now; my sister
and I. I went to school, primary school, in Daura
and Kaduna, also a primary school, in Kachia. I also
attended Kaduna Provincial Secondary School, now
Government College. I didn’t work for a day. I
joined the military in 1962. You mean as a boy
soldier? No, after school certificate. There was an
officer cadet school from here in Kaduna, called
Nigeria Military Training College then. In April 1962,
I went to the United Kingdom (UK), Mons Officers
Cadet School. You mean the famous Mons
Officers…? Yes. And when I was commissioned, I
came back and I was posted to 2nd Infantry
Battalion in Abeokuta. That was my first posting.
The battalion was in the Democratic Republic of
Congo. I went there. When I came back from there,
I was first in Lagos, as Transport Officer. That was
where I was till the January coup. I was posted
back to my battalion and we were posted to
Kaduna here. And then, there was a counter coup,
civil war, coup and counter-coup. We participated.
I too was overthrown and detained for more than
three years. And having had that major political
setback when I was made a head of state and then,
ended up in detention, I went out and eventually, I
decided to join party politics, participated three
times and lost as presidential candidate and I am
still in and fighting. You have never given up? Even
though I said at some stage that I wouldn’t present
myself for candidature again, I said I remain in
party politics as long as I have breath in me. Your
Excellency, why did you join the Army? The interest
was built while I was in secondary school. The emirs
of Katsina, from Dikko, were known to be interested
in the military. They always have members of the
military or police in their family right from World
War 11. One of the emirs of Kaduna-Dikko died in
Burma. And of course, everybody in the country
knows General Hassan, the son of the Emir of
Katsina. He was grandson of Emir Dukko. So, when
General Hassan was in Sandhurst, we were in
secondary school in Kaduna. His father, the Emir of
Katsina, Usman Nagogo, used to ask him to go and
talk to the senior students who were in form four to
six, to get them interested in the military. And we
were told that he deliberately wanted a military
cadet unit in Kaduna Secondary School. Then, it
was limited to Federal Government Colleges or
Government Colleges and we had a military cadet
unit, which I joined. That was the transition? That
was where the interest started. Did your parents
object to it? No. Well, I didn’t know my father
really. Oh! How old were you when he died? I think
I was about three, four years? I couldn’t remember
his face. The only thing I could recall about my
father was the horse because it threw me down.
We were on the horse with one of my half brothers
going to water it and then, it tripped and I fell. It
stepped on me. So, that is the only impression I
have of him. That is the only thing I could recall.
What of your mother? Oh! my mother died in 1988
when I was in detention. Ok, I remember then the
controversy of allowing you to go and see her
buried. Did they eventually allow you? No. Then it
was quite an issue … Yeah, it became an issue; so I
was immediately released after she was buried. You
didn’t see her buried? No. It was after you were
released you then went to her grave and all that?
Exactly! What kind of childhood did you then have?
Well, you know communities then were living
communal life. Clearly, I could recall I reared cattle.
We had cattle; we had sheep and then, there was
good neighbourhood. Not many children had the
opportunity to go to school, but I went to school. I
left home at the age of 10 or 11 and went to
school, like I said. And I was in the boarding school
for nine years. In primary school and secondary
school, I was in the boarding house and from there,
I went straight into the Army. So, you have always
been on your own? In those days, there were not
many schools and the teachers then were
professionals. They were working teachers and
were committed. And teachers then treated the
children as if they were their own students. You
were made to work and if you don’t, they never
spared the cane really. So, I was lucky to be in the
boarding school for my impressionable years, nine
years. I was very lucky. Did you play any pranks as
a young person? Oh, certainly! What where the
things you did? (Laughs) I wouldn’t like to mention
them. Tell us some of them… We used to raid the
emir’s orchard for mangoes mainly. Of course,
unfortunately we were caught and punished. When
people talk of Buhari today, they are looking at a
disciplined man. Was it the boarding house that
put you through that or the military? Was the
boarding house part of where you got your
Spartan, disciplined life? Both did. As I told you, the
teachers then treated their students as if they were
their own children. So, we got the best of attention
from teachers. And as I told you, they never spared
the cane. You were meant to do your homework;
you were meant to do the sports and clean up the
environment, the compound and the area of the
school and so on. And from that type of life, I
moved into the military, the military of that time.
Would you say going into the military was the best
thing that ever happened to you? I think so,
because from primary to secondary school and in
the military, it will continue, both the academic and
the physical one. I think it was so tough, but then,
once it was inbuilt, it has to be sustained because
you don’t contemplate failure. You just succeed?
Does it mean failure was not an option? No. It was
not. Was it also the Fulani training of perseverance?
Because when you have reared cattle, for those
who have been doing it, they said it toughens you…
It did. The sun is there, the rain and you are there
with your cattle… The period was remarkable, in
the sense that those who are brought up in the city
have limited space. If you are in a confined school,
you learn from the school and what you see
immediately. But the nomad life exposes you to
nature. You will never learn enough of plants, of
trees, of insects and of animals. Everyday you are
learning something. You have seen them and
everyday you are learning. You will never know all
of them. So, it is so vast that it takes a lot of
whatever you can think of. And then, the difference
again in the environment. In the Savannah, in the
Sahel, after harvest, you can always see as high as
your eyes can go. And then, at night when there is
moon, it is fantastic. So, I enjoyed those days and
they made a lasting impression in me. What are the
remarkable things you can think of during your
military trainings? Initially, from here in Kaduna, at
the end of your training, the height of the field
exercise was then conducted in two places. Here in
southern Kaduna and somewhere in Kachia area.
There was a thick belt in that forest. You go for field
firing and so on. And then you go to Jos for map
reading and endurance. That was why
mathematics at that level, the secondary school
level, geometry and algebra, were absolutely
necessary. It had always been, because to be a
competent officer, you may be deployed to be in
charge of artillery; physics, where you help find
your position. Wherever you are from, you work it
on the ground in degrees and so on. You have to
do some mathematics. We were in Jos. Again, I was
made a leader of a small unit. We were given a
map, a compass and you dare not cheat. If you are
found out, you are taken 10 miles back. So, you
have to go across the country. You find your way
from the map; you go to certain points and on
those points, mostly hills, you climb them and you
will get a box. The weather there is cold. You put
your own coat and you cover it over the hills and at
the end of the exercise, part of your scorecards, are
those marks you won or you lost. We arrived with
one compass, which led us to a certain bushy hill.
In Jos? Yes, in Jos. And it was night, dark and it was
raining lightly and definitely, our compass led us to
that hill, which means there was a point there. And
there were five of us: myself, one Sierra Leonean or
Ghanaian, one from Sokoto, and one other. I think
the other person is Katsina Alu, the former Chief
Justice. You mean he was in the military? He was.
He did the training but he was never
commissioned. He went to university and did Law. I
went up to the hill. I picked the box. I copied the
code, and I said if I were forced to join the Army, I
would have left the following day because that
place, a viper or a snake or something or hyena or
lion could have finished me. But I said if I run away
the following day, people would say well we knew
you couldn’t make it, we knew you would be lazy.
But because I voluntarily joined the Army, I said I
have to be there. That is one point. The second one
was when I was in training in the UK. I came there
and we were drilled so much and at night again,
we were on an exercise. We were putting our
formation. In anyway position was created, and
they fired at us. We went down automatically that
day and by the time the commander asked us to
move, I fell asleep. It must be few seconds, not up
to a minute. That was how exhausted I was. Was it
really the cold or what? It was cold. It was 1962. It
was cold and it was rainy again just like in Plateau.
Just between the time we went down and to move
and climb the mountain, I fell asleep. So, those two
moments, I would never forget them. Who were
your classmates in the military and in the officers’
training in the UK? Well, the late Gen. Yar’Adua. I
was together with him throughout the nine years
primary, secondary school and in the military. So,
you have always been colleagues…? We were
together from childhood. Ok, that is interesting.
Who else? Well, not the ones that are here. In the
military, most of them did not reach the position I
reached; myself, and Yar’Adua. They couldn’t make
it. Why did you choose the infantry and not the
other arms? What was the attraction? Maybe it was
the training of the cadet unit in secondary school. I
found the infantry much more challenging and
when we were doing the training, the Federal
Government decided that we were going to have
the Air Force. So, I was invited. A team came from
the Ministry of Defence to interview cadets that
wanted to be fighter pilots in the Air Force. I was
the first to be called in our group. I appeared
before them and they told me that those who could
pass the interview would be recommended to go to
the Air Force training either in the UK, some went
to Ethiopia or United States or Germany. So, they
asked me whether I wanted to be a fighter pilot
and I said no. They asked why, and I said I wasn’t
interested. We were given three choices. Number
one, maybe you went to infantry; number two, you
went to reconnaissance then before they became
armour and later, maybe artillery. So, all my three
choices, I could recall vividly, I put infantry,
infantry. So, they said why? I said because I liked
infantry. And they asked if I wouldn’t like to be a
fighter pilot. I said no, I didn’t want to join them.
They said why. I said I hadn’t done physics.
Normally, I did some mathematics but to be a
fighter pilot, you must do some physics. They said
no, that it was no problem, that I could have an
additional one academic year. So, since I had some
mathematics background, it was just one year
purely to do physics and I would reach the grade
required to be a pilot. I said no, I didn’t want it.
They again asked why. I told them I chose infantry.
The reason is: when I am fighting and I was shot at,
if I was not hit, I can go down, turn back and take
off by foot. They laughed and sent me out. So, I
remained infantry officer. Where were you during
the coups and counter-coups? And what rank were
you in the military then? I was in Lagos, in the
barracks, as transport officer. I was only a second
lieutenant. That was during the January 15, 1966
coup? Yes, January 15, 1966. The coup met you in
Lagos? Yes. I think that was my saddest day in the
military because I happened to know some of the
senior officers that were killed. In the transport
company, after the 2nd Battalion and we came
back, I was posted to Lagos to be a transport
officer and in my platoon, we had staff cars and
Landrovers. So, I knew the Army officers, from
Ironsi, Maimalari, because I detailed vehicles for
them every working day. So, I knew senior officers.
So, you were in contact with them? I was in
contact with them somehow because I was in
charge of transportation. Where were you that
night of January 15 coup? I was in Lagos. Can you
recall the circumstance, how you got to know? The
way I got to know was, my routine then was as
early as about six in the morning, I used to drive to
the garage to make sure that all vehicles for
officers, from the General Officer Commanding
(GOC), who was then General Ironsi, were
roadworthy and the drivers would drive off. And
then, I would go back to the Officers Mess in Yaba,
where I would wash, have my breakfast and come
back to the office. And around the railway crossing
in Yaba, coming out from the barracks, we saw a
wounded soldier. I stopped because I was in a
Landrover. I picked him and asked what happened.
He said he was in the late Maimalari’s house and
they were having a party the previous night and
the place was attacked. So, I took the soldier to the
military hospital in Yaba and I asked after the
commander. Maimalari, I think, was commander of
2 Brigade in Apapa. He was the 2 Brigade
Commander. They said he was shot and killed.
Then, you didn’t know it was a coup? Well, that
became a coup. That was the time I really learnt it
was a coup. And then there was a counter-coup of
July? Yes, July. Where were you at this time also? I
was in Lagos again. I was still in Lagos then at
Apapa at 2 Brigade Transport Company. And then,
there was ethnic colouration and all that. And at a
point, they asked some of you to go back to the
North. Am I correct? Yes, because I was posted
back then to the battalion. That was in Abeokuta. It
was first to Ikeja Cantonment, but after the
counter-coup, we were taken to Lagos by train, the
whole battalion. Did you play any role in the
counter-coup? No! Not that I will tell you. You know
at 70, you are reminiscing. You are saying it the
way it is, you don’t give a damn anymore… Well,
there was a coup. That is all I can tell you. I was a
unit commander and certainly, there was a
breakdown of law and order. So, I was posted to a
combatant unit, although 2 Brigade Transport
Company was a combatant unit. You know there
were administrative and combatant units and the
service unit, like health, education. Even transport,
there are administrative ones, but there are
combatant ones also. The question I asked was, did
you play any specific role? No. I was too junior to
play any specific role. I was just a lieutenant then.
In 1966, January, I was a Second Lieutenant, but I
was promoted, I think, around April, May, or June
to Lieutenant. And what were your impressions of
that period? You see, senior military officers had
been killed and politicians, like Sardauna, Akintola,
Okotie Eboh. They were killed. And then in the
military, Maimalari, Yakubu Pam, Legima,
Shodeinde, and Ademolegun; so really, it had a
tribal tinge. The first one? Yes. And then, there was
a counter. One mistake gave birth to another one?
Certainly, certainly. And then long years of military
came? Oh yes. From 1967-75, it was Gowon. At
that point in time, where were you? When Gowon
came into power, I wonder whether I would recall
where I was. It was July 1967 that Gowon came in.
That was when I was in Lagos. I was again in Lagos,
then in the transport company. Then he took over?
Yeah, Gowon took over or Gowon was installed.
Well, more like you… (Laughs) Yes. And then in
1967? Civil war. So, you have to give me that part
because there are some books I have read, that
featured your name. So, what were your
experiences during the civil war? Well, I told you
that we were parked into the rail to Kaduna from
Ikeja, 2nd Infantry Battalion and when states were
created by General Gowon, police action was
ordered; we were moved to the border in the East.
We were not in Nsukka, but in Ogoja. We started
from Ogoja. And you took active part? Yeah. Well, I
was a junior officer. Who was your GOC then? My
GOC was the late General Shuwa. How did you feel
during that period of the civil war? Did you think
that when the first coup started, that civil war
would just come? No. I never felt so and I never
hoped for it. Literally, you are trained to fight a war
but you are not trained to fight a war within your
own country. We would rather have enemies from
outside your country to defend your country, but
not to fight among yourselves. Some of those
officers you were fighting were your comrades…
They were. You knew some of them. Some of them
were even my course mates. We were facing each
other, like when we were in Awka sector. The
person facing me was called Bob Akonobi. We were
mates here. Robert Akonobi? Robert Akonobi. Who
later became a governor? Yes. He was my course
mate here in Kaduna. And there you were… Facing
each other. It was really crazy. It was. It was
unfortunate, but it is part of our national
development. And the way we are going, you think
it is a possibility again? I don’t think so. No, I don’t
think so. After Gowon, Murtala came. Yes. By the
time you were no longer a small officer… No. I was
just, I think, a colonel? Was it a lieutenant colonel
or major? I think I was a lieutenant colonel. But
during the Obasanjo administration, you had
become a minister, as it were. No. I first became a
governor when Murtala came, in North-East. This
same North East that is giving problem now. Yes. I
was there and there were six states then: Yobe,
Borno, Bauchi, Gombe, Adamawa and Taraba. And
they were all under your control or command?
North East went up to Chad; anyway, they are on
the same latitude with Lagos. The bottom before
you start going on the Plateau, Mambilla Plateau, if
you look here on the map, the same...

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