chreld_b:

I dont really get where you are going with your question about straw man fallacy. But as far as I'm concerned any person's opinion relating to this topic devoid of logic is a matter of fact a straw man.

ositadinma1,billionare=same person.
shreld_b,regynus=same person

diluminati: You all just have your own theories, feeling big. But in real sense you all just saying what y'all know, you aint convincing me.

How funny! You do not believe in the existence of a god or the spiritual due to lack of evidences for it/him/she, yet, you are here dismissing facts that might just answer some of your questions.

1. Are your disbeliefs in the existence of the spiritual based on lack of evidences for it or just because you feel there shouldn't be any?

2. Are you still looking for answers to the questions that led you into atheism or you are stuck already and have given up in your search for truths?

If you are a truth seeker, you shouldnt be afraid of trying out something new. QED

shady26: ositadinma1,billionare=same person.
shreld_b,regynus=same person

Hahahaha, I can remember the last time I laughed this hard. I have never separated from my body. Not my thing, besides I am insomniac

If one's senses and reason can't understand NDE, then what's the epistemological basis??

From reading the thread, it is clear that there is a subtle play on words here. There is a term that has been used somewhat disingenuously throughout the thread—the term is“4D” or the “Fourth Dimension”. This term as has been mentioned repeatedly throughout this thread deserves a better treatment than what it has received so far.

Firstly, human beings can only speak experientially about 3D. On this planet and anywhere else within this universe, one can only speak properly of three dimensions for spatial objects. That will be length, breadth (width) or height parameters. Nevertheless physicists trying to incorporate a time factor to physical observations have created a useful convention called space-time which is realistically just a plot of 3D against time. No wonder they speak of time being a 4th dimension. But as anyone can see, time is considered a dimension only in a loose space-time projection/plot sense; and not as anything that has a true spatial component.

Secondly, there are no verifiable 4th, 5th or higher order dimensions in THIS universe. This effectively dispatches all these speculative but altogether unproductive assertions about multiverses and alternate realities. So long as we are talking about physics and the physical realms, one must understand that all talks about an alternate or parallel universe or perhaps the multiverse are useful but ultimately unproven fictions. When these theories (fascinating though they may sound and possibly possessing vast explanatory power) become empirically verified then we can entertain their introduction into discussions of this nature. For now, they serve as nothing but distractors; they are little more than red herrings which lead people away from the real topic under consideration. It wouldn’t do for people approaching the topic to conflate the physics-related spatial higher dimensions, such as one might encounter in theoretical physics or Brane cosmology with the stuff being discussed here.

Now, this brings me to the real stuff being discussed here about NDEs and OBEs. After reading most of what Billyonaire had contributed, it beats me why he just doesn’t come out and plainly say that he’s been talking about Astral Travel/projection.—and frankly this is not new. A lot of these somewhat mystical concepts that he has spoken on come straight out of classical or medieval Hermetic, Neo-Platonist or Rosicrucian thought—they are not new at all. As a matter of fact, I’m sure people who follow The Grail Message have similar teachings.

So for the avoidance of all doubt, it would do everyone a world of good if he stopped talking about these like they are fantastic discoveries which everyone ought aspire to experience. My thinking is simple—if you are curious enough about these matters, and you are itching to have an out-of-body experience, then familiarize yourself with the necessary mind-altering drugs or else contact someone already deeply immersed in any of these supposedly “mystical” or perhaps even occult paths and having found such a mentor, declare yourself a worthy apprentice and hope to be shown these things.

Now to Billyonnaire…

Do what you please, but you’ll do well to stop giving the appearance that what you’ve decided to apply yourself to is definitively Christian. That is where you run the greatest risk of being deceitful or perhaps disingenuous. In order words, since an in-depth discussion on the details of astral projection (some “pastime” which you doubtlessly cherish) will reveal quickly that it is incongruous with mainstream Christianity, you would do well not to identify yourself or these practices as Christian. People who are far less discriminating might read your profession of the Christian faith earlier and be led to believe that what you are advocating is in its gamut “inconspicuous” or perhaps “scriptural”. That would be outright deception—it is Mysticism of some sort (- heck it might even be called “Christian Mysticism”) but it is certainly NOT “Mainstream Christianity”.

At any rate continue with your disquisition on bilocation, astral travel and other such mystical phenomena—you seem to have captured the attention and imagination of many greenhorns who are far too eager to have their bearings rattled.

^^^I love the word greenhorns, unfortunately, you are correct in that assertion. And yes, i never for once considered billionare as mainstream christian to start with, and mesef (not a mainstream christian either. . .or so i immagine).

@Godfather,right on spot.u finally nailed him but as the lord jesus said"this is the condemnation,that light( truth)is come into the world but men loved darkness(lies&deception )because their deeds were evil"JOHN.3:19

Nostradamu:
Rossike,ure right jare.....the character (joe4christlies) needs to grow one or have a brain transplant; this is what1)Freedom of expression (2)Access to internet and the result of couples who were never sterilized causes.....

i'll rather advice u nd rossike to GROW A LIFE that will last u beyond the 15000 days( that is if u hv up to that) u hv left to stay on earth before u go back to manure

ositadima1: ^^^ lol, what type of equipment are u using, whatever its I know it must be really expensive, 3A men, that's something!!!

u r right its somthing,but its not an equipment.Am possesed!ur MAKER LIVES INSIDE ME! i see u through his eyes plus i can make ur insomia go away.now thats better than tethering between madness and eternal damnation which is were your part is leading u in ur search for dark knowledge(who ever told u there r no better supernatural experiences in christ) instead of knowledge of the light which is mor powerful,far mor peaceful and fulfilln securing ur future.maybe u want to be stuck with the losing team( team lucifer) in wat is comming....make up ur mind now mortal man.u really mean much to GOD n he does not want u dead n gone forever.

1Godfather, you have a "clear-cut" way of seeing things, which mirrors ur erudition. Ok, once you have speeds dat are a fraction of light, you must consider the 4th dimension, time. You may want to read the Einstein's twin paradox.

shady26: ositadinma1,billionare=same person.
shreld_b,regynus=same person

Well I don't know about Ositadinma and billionaire, But be rest assured chreld_b and regynus are different people. And why did you come to that conclusion in the first place?

1Godfather:
From reading the thread, it is clear that there is a subtle play on words here. There is a term that has been used somewhat disingenuously throughout the thread—the term is“4D” or the “Fourth Dimension”. This term as has been mentioned repeatedly throughout this thread deserves a better treatment than what it has received so far.

Firstly, human beings can only speak experientially about 3D. On this planet and anywhere else within this universe, one can only speak properly of three dimensions for spatial objects. That will be length, breadth (width) or height parameters. Nevertheless physicists trying to incorporate a time factor to physical observations have created a useful convention called space-time which is realistically just a plot of 3D against time. No wonder they speak of time being a 4th dimension. But as anyone can see, time is considered a dimension only in a loose space-time projection/plot sense; and not as anything that has a true spatial component.

Secondly, there are no verifiable 4th, 5th or higher order dimensions in THIS universe. This effectively dispatches all these speculative but altogether unproductive assertions about multiverses and alternate realities. So long as we are talking about physics and the physical realms, one must understand that all talks about an alternate or parallel universe or perhaps the multiverse are useful but ultimately unproven fictions. When these theories (fascinating though they may sound and possibly possessing vast explanatory power) become empirically verified then we can entertain their introduction into discussions of this nature. For now, they serve as nothing but distractors; they are little more than red herrings which lead people away from the real topic under consideration. It wouldn’t do for people approaching the topic to conflate the physics-related spatial higher dimensions, such as one might encounter in theoretical physics or Brane cosmology with the stuff being discussed here.

Now, this brings me to the real stuff being discussed here about NDEs and OBEs. After reading most of what Billyonaire had contributed, it beats me why he just doesn’t come out and plainly say that he’s been talking about Astral Travel/projection.—and frankly this is not new. A lot of these somewhat mystical concepts that he has spoken on come straight out of classical or medieval Hermetic, Neo-Platonist or Rosicrucian thought—they are not new at all. As a matter of fact, I’m sure people who follow The Grail Message have similar teachings.

So for the avoidance of all doubt, it would do everyone a world of good if he stopped talking about these like they are fantastic discoveries which everyone ought aspire to experience. My thinking is simple—if you are curious enough about these matters, and you are itching to have an out-of-body experience, then familiarize yourself with the necessary mind-altering drugs or else contact someone already deeply immersed in any of these supposedly “mystical” or perhaps even occult paths and having found such a mentor, declare yourself a worthy apprentice and hope to be shown these things.

Now to Billyonnaire…

Do what you please, but you’ll do well to stop giving the appearance that what you’ve decided to apply yourself to is definitively Christian. That is where you run the greatest risk of being deceitful or perhaps disingenuous. In order words, since an in-depth discussion on the details of astral projection (some “pastime” which you doubtlessly cherish) will reveal quickly that it is incongruous with mainstream Christianity, you would do well not to identify yourself or these practices as Christian. People who are far less discriminating might read your profession of the Christian faith earlier and be led to believe that what you are advocating is in its gamut “inconspicuous” or perhaps “scriptural”. That would be outright deception—it is Mysticism of some sort (- heck it might even be called “Christian Mysticism”) but it is certainly NOT “Mainstream Christianity”.

At any rate continue with your disquisition on bilocation, astral travel and other such mystical phenomena—you seem to have captured the attention and imagination of many greenhorns who are far too eager to have their bearings rattled.

One million likes sir! Brilliant submission indeed..........totally concur