munas:

At the bolded,there is nothing like federal character system in the US as obtained in Nigeria.
Its merits.

actually there is, it's called affirmative action. A process whereby blacks, minorities and women are given special consideration over mainstream white in university admission, employment, public works and govt contracts.

[quote author=la furia]as for the north having lower cut-off, the question is how many still end up going to school. how many northerners attend federal schools in the south from the north? i attended fed sch in the south but that was becos i lived there. we were just 2 notherners among all the southerners that got admission that year. in the six years i spent, number of northern student who attended the fed school were less than five. but u have southerners who still flood the northern fed schs because the schs in the south couldnt admit them all. my point is:

1. the southern students score far better than the northern students and will surely get more admission places, the fact here is 90 perecent of northerners donot go to schs in the south, so the issue of their presence denying other better student admission isnt there. the competition in the south is within you southerners and nothing to do with low cut off for the north unless u are applied to a sch in north wic u are most likely to get.
[/quote
stiff competition among southern students explains the problem. It has nothing to do with northerners. Lets not cry foul where there is none.

I attended a unity school with "Pro Unitate" as the motto and the objective of the school was not to unify the country as much as to educate its citizens. You cannot go to school to be united. You go to school to be educated. Proper education is the primary goal of any school. The unity part is secondary and the NYSC is more focused on that part.

I find it uncomfortable to use ethnicity as a means of bringing people together. I tell you, the real thing that divides Nigerians is economic. Tribe and religin are there but the major factor that subjugates people is a class divide. If these schools were cathering to people whse parents earn about 200,000 annually then I would agree that quotas be given.

From my earlier post my point is that these quotas can be kept as long as there is a timeline on them.

toluene12:
actually there is, it's called affirmative action. A process whereby blacks, minorities and women are given special consideration over mainstream white in university admission, employment, public works and govt contracts.

They are not the same at all and could not be the same
Nigeria is already practicing affirmative action by having Anambra with a cut off mark of and Delta with 125
That is a huge difference between one of 125 another of 30 or zero
30 compared to 135 or 125 is a failure score and affirmative action should not be able to turn a failing grade into a pass which is what the Nigerian version is doing.
In case you don't know rural and poor whites are also included in affirmative action in many instances.

It is also easy for us to see why blacks and other minorities in the USA including women should be encouraged into positions by reserving a certain percentage for them in some establishments.
They have been an oppressed group
It is not given to mediocre minorities either unlike the nigerian type.
Blacks were enslaved by whites and used as beasts of burdens.Dehumanized for centuries with no laws protecting them as humans.the country had clear anti black laws which needed to be dismantled.

Why is the north of nigeria lagging behind compared to the south? why don't they want to address the main issue?
The south never colonized the north or conquered it in a war
There were no anti north rules that kept them marginalized,infact the white man favored them tremendously according to reports.
The white man brought western education to us all and the north as a matter of fact claimed Arabs had already opened their eyes to modernity before the Europeans came.i have read those writings.
The white man came first to Western Nigeria which explains their older schools and earlier foray into education compared to other groups
That was many years ago
Other groups in the south have since caught up and some surpassed them going by current statistics
What has prevented the north from coming close despite the fact that laws are skewed to favor them?
Is anyone not asking these questions rather than devising laws to favor mediocrity
I don't believe they are incapable of learning ,what cultural or religious practices are keeping them down and dragging us backwards
That should be addressed in order for them and us to make a headway

The football analogy given by aribisala is perfect in arguing against his point. Europe is the smallest continent bu has the most representatives at the worldcup. Reason? They are better footballers! So while Fifa helped to foster global unity by including other continents, it did not disadvantage the majority of footballing nations. When Africa started improving their slots were raised from 3 to 5.

I believe Nigeia would be a better place if the mass of Northerners are educated because you ae only as strong as your weakest link; but this would not be gotten by lowering standards even down to zero. Let me give you an example, while I was at a FGC in the east there was this boy who came in in JS 1 and could not speak a line in english. He ended up being the but of jokes in class. People made him the class clown, taunting him with cattle sounds and all. Now tell me what unity you achieve by that. Unity is nothing. What unifies a people as argued in Achebe's book, The Problem with Nigeria are values of hardwork and justice and stuff like that.

initiator: The football analogy given by aribisala is perfect in arguing against his point. Europe is the smallest continent bu has the most representatives at the worldcup. Reason? They are better footballers! So while Fifa helped to foster global unity by including other continents, it did not disadvantage the majority of footballing nations. When Africa started improving their slots were raised from 3 to 5.

I believe Nigeia would be a better place if the mass of Northerners are educated because you ae only as strong as your weakest link; but this would not be gotten by lowering standards even down to zero. Let me give you an example, while I was at a FGC in the east there was this boy who came in in JS 1 and could not speak a line in english. He ended up being the but of jokes in class. People made him the class clown, taunting him with cattle sounds and all. Now tell me what unity you achieve by that. Unity is nothing. What unifies a people as argued in Achebe's book, The Problem with Nigeria are values of hardwork and justice and stuff like that.

In my school also we had girls from the north that could not speak a word of English and were isolated and only socialized with fellow northerners the only ones that spoke their language.
These girls obviously did not take the same national common entrance we took let alone pass it,the exam was in English.
They had full state scholarships too
We heard rumors some of them were even married
It was not difficult to prove,,some went on holidays and never returned
Some also got pregnant and were sent home.
The underlying reason is not being addressed which explains why despite the lowering of admission requirements down to zero,they cannot still fill their quotas and the schools in their own states are heavily populated by southerners also.

toluene12:
actually there is, it's called affirmative action. A process whereby blacks, minorities and women are given special consideration over mainstream white in university admission, employment, public works and govt contracts.

Affirmative action like you said is designed to aid minorities. Between warri and Hausa/ Fulani people, which to you is a minority tribe in Nigeria? What did Atiku tell PDP delegates in Rivers in 2011 ?

edoyad:
Affirmative action like you said is designed to aid minorities. Between warri and Hausa/ Fulani people, which to you is a minority tribe in Nigeria? What did Atiku tell PDP delegates in Rivers in 2011 ?

Your point is not cogent enough. Simply because Hausa/Fulani people are more in population does not mean that a marginalized segment of them should not benefit from so-called affirmative actions.

In the US for example, marginalized white people do benefit from affirmative actions.

Examine the number of University graduates in Nigeria and the need to bridge the gap with affirmative actions such as being discussed becomes obvious.

initiator: The football analogy given by aribisala is perfect in arguing against his point. Europe is the smallest continent bu has the most representatives at the worldcup. Reason? They are better footballers! So while Fifa helped to foster global unity by including other continents, it did not disadvantage the majority of footballing nations. When Africa started improving their slots were raised from 3 to 5.

Let me give you an example, while I was at a FGC in the east there was this boy who came in in JS 1 and could not speak a line in english. He ended up being the but of jokes in class. People made him the class clown, taunting him with cattle sounds and all. Now tell me what unity you achieve by that. Unity is nothing. What unifies a people as argued in Achebe's book, The Problem with Nigeria are values of hardwork and justice and stuff like that.

i'm not sure u're quite correct. African, asian and concacaf slots at world cup weren't increased because of improvement in previous competition instead because of increased number in W.C participants. When fifa increased the no from 24 to 32, 7 of the extra places were allocated to fifa's weaker affiliated region to ensure better representation at global level.
That these extra nations have proven to be merely walk overs and are killing the competitive spirit the world cup is known for and calls have been made that those extra slots should have been allocated to europe and south america, does not mean fifa should reverse the original purpose of behind the idea.
That's the point aribisala and co established about unity schools.

Aribisala0 and his quota system cohorts:

I would like to get your opinion on the issue of rotational presidency in relation to quota system (that you support). Thank you.

toluene12:
actually, there is. It's called affirmative action. Special consideration is given to blacks, minorities and women above the mainstream white. Its been in existence for over 40 yrs now and many successful blacks benefitted from it. However, I'll admitt its very unpopular and calls have been made to end it. Some have even challenged it in court.

Affirmative action in the United States is meant for marginalized people. Is the North marginalized in Nigeria? They have ruled more than 3/4 of the time since independence. If anyone in Nigeria deserves quota system, should it be the North? BTW, what is your opinion on the issue of rotational presidency in relation to quota system (that you support)?

ndu_chucks:

Your point is not cogent enough. Simply because Hausa/Fulani people are more in population does not mean that a marginalized segment of them should not benefit from so-called affirmative actions.

In the US for example, marginalized white people do benefit from affirmative actions.

Examine the number of University graduates in Nigeria and the need to bridge the gap with affirmative actions such as being discussed becomes obvious.

Please read this post below and pay attention to the highlighted
The entrance requirement to secondary schools has been lowered to zero for federal schools and perhaps same for their state schools
Incentives galore to attend schools,the state pays them a stipend,they pay no tuition,get free books and uniforms
The state even pays for their WAEC registrations
WAEC results are out
Read this news from last year

The Chairman of the Governing Council of the Bauchi State University, Prof. Ango Abdullahi, said only 17, out of the 18,000 secondary school students who sat for the National Examination Council examinations in Gombe State, earned qualification for university admission.

Adbullahi said this when he paid a courtesy visit to the management of the Tertiary Education Trust Fund, in Abuja, on Wednesday.

He decried the poor state of secondary education, especially in northern Nigeria.

This, he said, compelled him to write a personal letter to the Minister of Education.

Abdullahi said, “I sat with the governor and we were really belly-aching about the state of secondary education and he confessed to me that they forwarded 18,000 students for NECO and WAEC examinations but only 17 got university (admission) qualification.”

Earlier, Bauchi State Governor Isa Yuguda said government and the private sector must collaborate to rescue the Nigeria education sector from collapse.

He said the burden of educating an ever increasing population was too much for government alone to bear.

This, he said, was because there were other competing needs which put a strain on government’s lean resources.

The governor, who led members of the governing council of the BASU to TETFUND, said their mission was to request that the university be listed among beneficiaries of funds disbursed by the intervention agency.

Yuguda said, “The Bauchi State University is a growing concern and my administration is determined to provide it the basic infrastructure for it to stand on its feet.”

So what do suggest now?
WAEC requirements be scrapped in the north so they can enter the universities with whatever they score in JAMB since they have to catch up?
Or do you suggest a special marking grade for northern WAEC takers?
Remember the news says 17 earned qualifications to enter the university not that the 17 have scaled JAMB with enough scores in the quota to enter a university that is assuming that all 17 are interested in post secondary education o.
Remember that these 18,000 WAEC sitters are the same candidates that required a zero cut off mark.
Is there not a bigger problem that needs to be addressed here rather than lowering scores to nothingness for their sake?

The reason Europe have more slots does not argue against my point at all .

Why don't we have a Jamaican team b and team C at the 4x100m olympic relay so we can know it is about merit

Europe were the FOUNDING MEMBERS of FIFA and have always had more we assume they are better but the only members of FIFA with a veto are European. Besides I am not arguing that there should be UNITY SCHOOLS.I do not necessarily agree with UNITY SCHOOLS I am saying this is the basis on which they were formed. If as a nation we do not want unity schools we should say so but there is NO OTHER REASON for the FG to be involved in secondary education. The alarmist crying about standard for admission has nothing to do with UNITY SCHOOLS. Unity schools have been around since the early seventies and the rules are NOT NEW.THe admission criteria for Universities have not been waived for anyone.



The claim that entrance requirement into UNITY SCHOOLS were lowered is UNTRUE IT has always been QUOTA BASED SO by definition entrance requirement is variable. There is a limit to how many slots any one can have.

To put my argument in perspective

There has been a slight improvement in candidates’ performance in the November/December 2012 West African Senior School Certificate Examinations – with 150,615 candidates, representing 37.97 per cent of the 396,614 that wrote the examination recording credit passes in five subjects, including English and Mathematics.

The above is from WAEC

Pass rate for candidates in the WAEC exam generally is at 38%. pass meaning gaining minimum JAMB requirements
Gombe state presents 18,000 candidates and only 17 passed, performing at less than 0.1%

ndu_chucks:

Your point is not cogent enough. Simply because Hausa/Fulani people are more in population does not mean that a marginalized segment of them should not benefit from so-called affirmative actions.

In the US for example, marginalized white people do benefit from affirmative actions.

Examine the number of University graduates in Nigeria and the need to bridge the gap with affirmative actions such as being discussed becomes obvious.

Danwa, call a spade a spade, this policy is unfair. This situation is the crux of the problem we're facing in this country today. Is it a coincidence that the state in question, Yobe, is actually the incubator of our main security challenge today? You have an army of untrainable youths running about with nothing but religious extremism to hold on to," Blame the infidels, they're the reason you're hungry and naked".

If i could digress a bit, did you read the UN report that states that it is improbable for the children of a woman with college training to grow up in poverty?What are the affected governments doing about this? Are girls being targeted for enrollment?

We can sit here and talk all we want but you know that lowering standards to accommodate blockheads will only lead to poorer quality. Why not create Special Schools to train children from these areas rather than destroy fine institutions.

If the unity part is "secondary" to "Excellence" what business does the FG have with a secondary school.

What percentage of the total secondary school population in Nigeria go to these schools.less than 1% of 1%

Our constitution is Clear Primary and Secondary education lie within the ambit of Local and state government.

aribisala0:
If the unity part is "secondary" to "Excellence" what business does the FG have with a secondary school.

What percentage of the total secondary school population in Nigeria go to these schools.less than 1% of 1%

Our constitution is Clear Primary and Secondary education lie within the ambit of Local and state government.

guy u no go rest? if u like tell them a million times they wont listen. u get time to d type back and forth

aribisala0:
If the unity part is "secondary" to "Excellence" what business does the FG have with a secondary school.

What percentage of the total secondary school population in Nigeria go to these schools.less than 1% of 1%

Our constitution is Clear Primary and Secondary education lie within the ambit of Local and state government.

There are over 50 federal owned post secondary institutions in Nigeria FYI
The same quota system applies in their admissions

babyosisi:

There are over 50 federal owned post secondary institutions in Nigeria FYI
The same quota system applies in their admissions

Not true.Absolute falsehood

edoyad:

Danwa, call a spade a spade, this policy is unfair. This situation is the crux of the problem we're facing in this country today. Is it a coincidence that the state in question, Yobe, is actually the incubator of our main security challenge today? You have an army of untrainable youths running about with nothing but religious extremism to hold on to," Blame the infidels, they're the reason you're hungry and naked".

If i could digress a bit, did you read the UN report that states that it is improbable for the children of a woman with college training to grow up in poverty?What are the affected governments doing about this? Are girls being targeted for enrollment?

We can sit here and talk all we want but you know that lowering standards to accommodate blockheads will only lead to poorer quality. Why not create Special Schools to train children from these areas rather than destroy fine institutions.

Do you know who the teachers of those kids in the northern state schools are?
Southern youth corpers
Most corpers are southerners and most serve in the north annually as teachers
Some even act as vice principals and principals
Fresh graduates teaching and preparing students for WAEC
And every year a new batch comes in,no continuity
Lowering test scores can never be the solution as the WAEC result shows
Who knows,there could be people advocating that it be lowered too

aribisala0:
Not true.Absolute falsehood

What is false?
The number of federal post secondary schools or the fact that northerners are admitted in federal institutions with lower scores?

There are 3 tiers of criteria for admission to FGCs

National merit= Winners takes all Fixed numbers

State quota = slots for all states Fixed numbers

Environmental quota= slots for host community/neighbouring states. Fixed numbers

There is no preset qualification for the latter 2 and that is why the issue of ZERO cut off can arise.

At University level these quotas do NOT exist and The basis requirement must be met 5 credits including English.
So to say they are THE SAME is just wrong
Universities are not unity schools .

babyosisi:

What is false?
The number of federal post secondary schools or the fact that northerners are admitted in federal institutions with lower scores?

"THE SAME QUOTA SYSTEM APPLIES IN FEDERAL UNIVERSITIES".


This claim is false
Quotas in Federal universities only exist as discretionary slots for HOST STATES and candidates must still have the basic entry requirements
Many courses e.g medicine are exempted

aribisala0:
"THE SAME QUOTA SYSTEM APPLIES IN FEDERAL UNIVERSITIES".


This claim is false
Quotas in Federal universities only exist as discretionary slots for HOST STATES and candidates must still have the basic entry requirements
Many courses e.g medicine are exempted

This is an old article
Enjoy
Same thing obtains.
A Hausa person hosing to study medicine in UNILAG will get in under the disadvantaged group with a lower score
That is a reality my dear

And in his own area my only shot at attending ABU is to make the merit list
I will not qualify for catchment area or disadvantaged .discretionary is for man know man
This is the way quota was designed to work.

The former JAMB registrar, Salim (1999) noted however that JAMB is “a bold step and a framework to put a stop to multiple applications and admissions as well as enhancing increased access into universities”. For the apostles of JAMB, thirty percent (30%) of the total admission to catchments area; forty percent (40%) to merit; twenty percent (20%) to educationally disadvantaged groups and ten percent (10%) to university discretion, are all in order.

Adeyemi (2001) in his study on “equality of access and catchments area factor in university admission in Nigeria” was of the opinion that the catchment area policy for admissions into our higher institutions of learning should be maintained because it is aimed genuinely at balancing the imbalance educationally speaking between the North and South. Does the argument end here?

Professor Sarror, a former Vice-Chancellor of Ahmadu Bello University was reported in the National Concord on Friday, June 3rd, 1994 as saying that eligible candidates in the Northern states could not fill up the quota for catchment area. He further said that “in most cases, the educationally disadvantaged states could not present qualified candidates to fill up their 20% quota because all the candidates have been absorbed in the catchment area quota”. This has led to a situation in the words of Adeyemi (2001) “where some universities are under-enrolled while some are over-populated, thus leading to under-utilization and over-utilization of resources respectively”. The rational question arising from this is: must some sections of the country stagnate educationally while other sections are not moving? Evidence has shown that the wastage rate in our admission system is very high.

More opposers of the quota system have had cause to continuously ask that why is it that the National Common Entrance organizers for instance have to set different cut-off marks for Bankole, Emeka, Oghenovu, Bassey and Adamu – from the same country?

http://transcampus.org/JORINDV6Jun2008/JournalsV6NO1June200823.html

Sunny_bobo: 1st ANAMBRA

2nd IMO

3rd ABIA

4th DELTA


Four Igbo states topping the list. Thank God for the internet. I'll come back to comment later.

How is Delta an Igbo state?

babyosisi:





This is an old article
Enjoy
Same thing obtains.



http://transcampus.org/JORINDV6Jun2008/JournalsV6NO1June200823.html

It is NOT the SAME .
I would like to believe you understand the meaning of THE SAME.
We are talking of Zero cut off on this thread is that the same? There is a quota in universities but it is NOT the same as in FGCs either in Principle or practice
To gain admission you MUST have 5 credits and English.Is that being waved.There are always more southerners at ABU,Unimaid etc than UNN or Uniben ANYDAY

aribisala0:
"THE SAME QUOTA SYSTEM APPLIES IN FEDERAL UNIVERSITIES".


This claim is false
Quotas in Federal universities only exist as discretionary slots for HOST STATES and candidates must still have the basic entry requirements
Many courses e.g medicine are exempted

That's not true mate. Universities have catchment areas which comprise of states. This states could be from different regions and they also have different cut off marks. The process is that a certain percentage is reserved for merit, followed by catchment area and then followed by Educationally less developed state. This is the process for admission into Federal Universities and NO, Medicine is not exempted. Same quota system is applied to medicine but then if you can't scale your 1st Mb, you get weeded out.

aribisala0: It is NOT the SAME .
I would like to believe you understand the meaning of THE SAME.
We are talking of Zero cut off on this thread is that the same? There is a quota in universities but it is NOT the same as in FGCs either in Principle or practice
To gain admission you MUST have 5 credits and English.Is that being waved.There are always more southerners at ABU,Unimaid etc than UNN or Uniben ANYDAY

You argue upside down no offense
Are we not talking about lowered scores too
You told me it was not so in universities,I gave you proof and you throw this weak line
Is it not just Yobe that had zero cutoff on that list
Is Yobe the only state in the north
Sheesh

Sunny_bobo:

That's not true mate. Universities have catchment areas which comprise of states. This states could be from different regions and they also have different cut off marks. The process is that a certain percentage is reserved for merit, followed by catchment area and then followed by Educationally less developed state. This is the process for admission into Federal Universities and NO, Medicine is not exempted. Same quota system is applied to medicine but then if you can't scale your 1st Mb, you get weeded out.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. The point though even if your argument is true is it is NOT THE SAME THING as the quota system for FGCs . YOU MUST GET 5 credits and that is a fundamental difference from the ZERO cut off mark for Yobe State. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

According to what you are arguing a canditate who scores 50 in JAMB can gain admission to study medicine in UNILAG if he is the only candidate from his state? Is that right?

aribisala0:
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. The point though even if your argument is true is it is NOT THE SAME THING as the quota system for FGCs . YOU MUST GET 5 credits and that is a fundamental difference from the ZERO cut off mark for Yobe State. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

According to what you are arguing a canditate who scores 50 in JAMB can gain admission to study medicine in UNILAG if he is the only candidate from his state? Is that right?

Is there a quota system in university admissions that is designed to favor northerners
Yes or no

babyosisi:

You argue upside down no offense
Are we not talking about lowered scores too
You told me it was not so in universities,I gave you proof and you throw this weak line
Is it not just Yobe that had zero cutoff on that list
Is Yobe the only state in the north
Sheesh

I do not argue upside down maybe your father does discuss that with him
You made a very specific statement
:
"There are over 50 federal owned post secondary institutions in Nigeria FYI
The same quota system applies in their admissions"

which is NOT TRUE and then you try to muddy the waters by widening the argument.
THe quota system is NOT THE SAME for FGCs as UNIVERSITIES
You made that claim and you say you gave "proof" They are completely different systems