F00028:
open a translation of the Qur'an. you'll find the original arabic and the english translation
side by side or above and below.


if you have read the op and follow ups and you still don't get it then there is no point.

The surat that says " He begetteth not"
Denies the old prophecies. I am on phone i will prove that later. This is were Muhammed err. You cant say prophet Isaiah was wrong and He was right...

You must know that Even prophet Isaiah was kill because of a prophecy that the people thinks He was blasphemy against thier God. Study the Bible with open mind and stop being misled.

plappville:
The prophets did said, He will die for our sins,

where please?

plappville:
Satying that Jesus did not match these prophecies is either saying Jesus is false or that the prophecies failed.

or they were talking about someone else (e.g Isaiah 53),or it doesn't mean what you think it means, or that's not what the Prophets actually said. remember Jeremiah 8:8?

plappville:
He was prophecied to be the Son of God by prophets. You have nothing to say about this.

God has other sons in your bible
ex 4:22, jer 31:9, ps 2:7

plappville: Jesus existed before He came to earth.

so did Jeremiah. read jer 1:5

F00028:
don't make me laugh. that's something you tell the ignorant to make them think you're on to something.

the Qur'an is essentially a recital and has different reading styles/dialects. and you can find those readings in printed form but that's where it stops.

the Quran is not like your bible. where you find one has six whole books more than others, some throw out verses that others include. those are versions.

they are not merely different translations or variant readings. your bible's case is much more serious than that.


cut to the chase! if there's something in particular on your mind just say it and lets be done with it.

If you think it's only styles/dialects, why not let's look at it together. I have some arabic background. We all know, you claim the Bible is corrupt; that doesn't move us. Yet not one Muslim in the whole world can tell us where the original Bible they refer to is. We never claimed the Quran is corrupt, but to say that the original translation is in Arabic makes spotless is at best laughable. To prove that, we have to look at the different translations and versions.

Let me give you a typical example. Surah 3:146, Imam Hafs version says - And many a prophet fought (qatala) ... 3.146. Imam Warsh version says - And many a prophet was killed (qutila) ... 3.146. There are different vowels in these words. This changes the meaning from the active to the passive. As if a prophet fought is the same thing as a prophet killed. The are numerous other diacritical and vowel differences that CHANGES the meaning of some Surahs. Go on and claim what you want to claim. If you read the Bible and want to see 1001 errors, you will see those errors even if you have to make them up. The same goes for the Quran. So, stop talking as if there are people not informed on this subject.

I had wanted you to clarify what the theme of this thread was. It's apparent now.

alexis:

If you think it's only styles/dialects, why not let's look at it together. I have some arabic background. We all know, you claim the Bible is corrupt; that doesn't move us. Yet not one Muslim in the whole world can tell us where the original Bible they refer to is...

what original bible?
you didn’t compile the bible until about 300 years after Jesus Christ was gone. don’t you know your history?

any lay person can figure out the bible has been changed by just looking at the 73 books of the roman catholic bible as against the 66 books of the protestants and wonder: is it 7 books more or 7 books less?

alexis:
Let me give you a typical example. Surah 3:146, Imam Hafs version says - And many a prophet fought (qatala) ... 3.146. Imam Warsh version says - And many a prophet was killed (qutila) ... 3.146. There are different vowels in these words. This changes the meaning from the active to the passive. As if a prophet fought is the same thing as a prophet killed. The are numerous other diacritical and vowel differences that CHANGES the meaning of some Surahs.

really? your background in arabic enabled you to come up with that? because i know a certain website that would be offended by you claiming their credit.

anyway,many a Prophet did fight and many a prophet was killed.

God’s last Prophet stated “this Quran has been revealed in seven different ways so recite it in the way easiest for you”.

the seven styles (ahruf-but you already know that, right?) were taught by the Prophet to the people. so even when copies of the Quran were made by the caliph Uthman according one style (harf) it was without the vowel points so other styles could be accommodated.

this is not something you just discovered.

what original bible?. you didn’t compile the bible until about 300 years after Jesus Christ was gone. don’t you know your history?

You claimed the Bible was corrupt. Muslims say it all the time, the ORIGINAL Bible is lost and what we have now is not the original. So, I am asking, if you know where the original is why not tell us. Your Quran has referenced and quoted the Bible on several occasions. I wonder how a book (the Quran) that was created before the universe is able to quote a book (the Bible) that was compiled 300 years ago. Makes me wonder how UNIQUE the Quran is. The Quran itself testifies that the Bible is the Word of God..

any lay person can figure out the bible has been changed by just looking at the 73 books of the roman catholic bible as against the 66 books of the protestants and wonder: is it 7 books more or 7 books less?

Your prophet commended the Bible in his days (Surah 5:69; 10:94). Maybe you should ask him which Bible he used because you are of the opinion the one we have is corrupted

really? your background in arabic enabled you to come up with that? because i know a certain website that would be offended by you claiming their credit.

I never claimed any credit. I stated that don't think we are ignorant that there are differences in the Quran.

anyway,many a Prophet did fight and many a prophet was killed.

Hahaha, what a cheap deceitful way of handling the obvious. The verb fought and the verb killed mean two entirely different things. Besides, why didn't both translations had a unified intepretation?

God’s last Prophet stated “this Quran has been revealed in seven different ways so recite it in the way easiest for you”.

Your God, not mine.

the seven styles (ahruf-but you already know that, right?) were taught by the Prophet to the people. so even when copies of the Quran were made by the caliph Uthman according one style (harf) it was without the vowel points so other styles could be accommodated.

You need some history on your own religion. At the time of Mohammad's death, a complete collection of the suras did not exist. In 633AD, several Quran reciters were killed in the battle of Aqaba. This prompted Umar Ibn Elkhatab to persuade Abu Bakar (then the Khaliph) to make a proper collection of the Quran. Zaid Ibn Thabit, (one of Mohammed's secretaries) was appointed to accomplish this task, which according to him was more difficult that "to move a mountain". Letters were dispatched to believers everywhere to bring any portion they had. Umar and Zaid sat at the gate of a mosque testing oral and written portions of the Quran. Every portion had to be backed by at least two witnesses before it could be incorporated into the Quran. It seems that, however, that a considerable number of verses were both added and lost in the mechanical process (Unlike what muslims want us to believe that the Quran was HOT in heaven before the creation of the world). For example, someone called Abikhazami, which no one knew, but was accepted on the ground that Mohammed has said that this man's word was equal to two witnesses, produced a certain portion.

Umar himself came with the verse know as "aye tael rajem" - the verse of stoning, which says that if a couple (especially an elderly couple) commit adultery, they should be stoned to death. As no one present testified to it, was excluded, though Umar practised that during his reign. This is still practised today in Saudi Arabia.

Another problem was that of abrogation. Mohammed taught that some of his later (new) revelations annulled the earlier (old) ones. I wonder how the version in Heaven was updated. Some of his followers had only the new and some had the old. There was contention as to which one is annulled and which one is not. There were also mainly 4 of Mohammed's followers with their separate small collection. Some time later, during the reign of the 3rd Caliph, Uthman, it was reported to him that several Muslim communities i.e Syria, Armenia and Iraq were reciting the Quran in a way that was different from that in which those in Arabia were reciting it. This was unacceptable to Uthman. It would do damage to Islam if there were different versions of the Quran in wide distributions. Uthman thus called upon Zaid to oversee the production of a definitive and final authorized version of the Quran that would become the standard for all Muslims everywhere. Once Zaid's task was completed, Uthman had copies of the Authorized version made, and these were distributed to Islamic centers in Mecca, Medina, Basra, Damascus, and other cities. All other copies of the Quran were burned so there would be no challenge to the authorized text. Thus Uthman gave the Islamic community the Quran he wanted them to have.

It is not surprising then that the Quran being used in Iran (the Shiites) is different from the Quran that is in use in other places like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria (who are mainly Sunnis) although the Muslim world and you will like us to believe that your Quran is PERFECT. Yeah Right. We all know that there was never an original copy of the Quran. According to the Hadith, Mishkat'ul Masabih, the Quran was originally written in pieces and fragment on palm leaves, camels ribs and shoulder blades etc. When it descended from heaven, did it come on camel shoulder blades?

So, you having your Quran in Arabic and the translation in another language means nothing my friend. It doesn't prove anything. You keep using the Quran to judge the Bible, when the Bible predates the Quran. Jesus died, was risen, bodily seen by numerous witnesses; yet your prophet came 600 years later and said "It seemeth so in their eyes".

alexis:
You claimed the Bible was corrupt.

is it seven books more or seven books less?

alexis: Muslims say it all the time, the ORIGINAL Bible is lost and what we have now is not the original. So, I am asking, if you know where the original is why not tell us.

then talk to them. i didn't say any thing about any "ORIGINAL" Bible.

alexis: Your Quran has referenced and quoted the Bible on several occasions.

not true. the Qur'an doesn't quote any "Bible".

alexis: I wonder how a book (the Quran) that was created before the universe is able to quote a book (the Bible) that was compiled 300 years ago. Makes me wonder how UNIQUE the Quran is.

the Quran is not a creation.

alexis: The Quran itself testifies that the Bible is the Word of God..

where?!?

alexis: Your prophet commended the Bible in his days (Surah 5:69; 10:94). Maybe you should ask him which Bible he used because you are of the opinion the one we have is corrupted

those verses dont say anything about any "Bible". in fact 5:69 doesnt mention any scripture at all.

don't you even cross check stuff before you copy and post it?

alexis: I never claimed any credit. I stated that don't think we are ignorant that there are differences in the Quran.

you threw in " I have some arabic background" and then went on about qutila, qatala. it was easily infered.

alexis: Your God, not mine.

suit yourself.

alexis: You need some history on your own religion. At the time of Mohammad's death, a complete collection of the suras did not exist....

false again! a complete collection of the surahs did exist. those reciters you mentioned were actually 'huffaz', people who had committed the entire Qur'an to memory-chapter and verse.

I already know my history.

Christianity is such a deception . A load of crap. Why? Because Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of israel not Nigerians.

is it seven books more or seven books less?

It is your claim, not mine. You tell us since you have "both" books with you

then talk to them. i didn't say any thing about any "ORIGINAL" Bible

.

So, you are claiming that the Bible is not corrupt

not true. the Qur'an doesn't quote any "Bible".

Hahahaha, your ignorance or sheer determination to refute history and obvious proof is interesting. I will give you two Surahs from the Quran that quoted the Bible word for word

Surah 5:45 "We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are wrong-doers"

The above Surah is quoted from Exodus 21:23-25 and Deuteronomy 19:21. I will quote both scriptures:

Exodus 21:23-25 "And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, Nose for nose, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe"

Deuteronomy 19:21 "And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot"

Second quote of the Quran from the Bible

Surah 21:105 "Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth.""

Quoted from Psalms 37:29 "The righteous shall inherit the land and dwell therein forever"

Keep on denying history and your own Quran.

the Quran is not a creation

Please explain

where?!?

Do you want Surah's from your Quran? Here is one for you

Surah 3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Here is another one

Surah 21:91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

Your own Quran confirms Jesus' virgin birth and that He was the Word of God and the Spirit of God who put on the flesh of man. Please read them carefully.

you threw in " I have some arabic background" and then went on about qutila, qatala. it was easily infered.

My arabic background has nothing to do with the differences between the arabic words qutila and qatala. That was a simple example that the arabic text in the Quran has different meanings compared to your claim that the Quran is error free and perfect. We are yet to discuss Shiite Muslims claims that portions of the present Quran is wrong. These are not Christian claims but Muslims claims.

false again! a complete collection of the surahs did exist. those reciters you mentioned were actually 'huffaz', people who had committed the entire Qur'an to memory-chapter and verse.

You are funny, they didn't EXIST oh. The Quran was compiled from numerous people who "remembered" what Muhammed said. After the "Authorized Version" was published, there were portions that were not even compiled in. For example, Aisha, Muhammed's widow, who was also instrumental in the gathering of some of the shreds that were compiled had remembered AFTER the "Authorized Version" had come out that there were certain portions she knew existed when Mohammed was alive that were obviously missing in the new text. THOSE MISSING PORTIONS REMAIN MISSING EVEN TODAY. Aisha is quoted as saying:

"The verse of the stoning, and of sucking an adult ten times were revealed and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with this death, a goat entered and ate away the paper"

This is recorded by Abu Muslim, Ibn Maja and Ibn Qutbah

I already know my history

Apparently you DO NOT!

This is supposed to be word of God. Umar bin Al-Khattab tells Mohammed something, Mohammed likes it and suddenly Allah reveals it to Mohammed JUST AS UMAR SAID IT. Allah must have liked what Umar mentioned to Mohammed. Is he all knowing and wise?

Hadeeth No 396 Narrated 'Umar (bin Al-Khattab

My Lord agreed with me in three things:
1. I said,"O Allah's Apostle, I wish we took the station of Abraham as our praying place (for some of our prayers). So came the Divine Inspiration: And take you (people) the station of Abraham as a place of prayer (for some of your prayers e.g. two Rakat of Tawaf of Ka'ba)". (2.125)
2. And as regards the (verse of) the veiling of the women, I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! I wish you ordered your wives to cover themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them.' So the verse of the veiling of the women was revealed.
3. Once the wives of the Prophet made a united front against the Prophet and I said to them, 'It may be if he (the Prophet) divorced you, (all) that his Lord (Allah) will give him instead of you wives better than you.' So this verse (the same as I had said) was revealed." (66.5).

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume1, Book 8, Number 396

(Surah 2:125) Sahih International
And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]."

Surah 24:31 Sahih International
And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.

Surah 66:5 Sahih International
Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you [all], would substitute for him wives better than you - submitting [to Allah ], believing, devoutly obedient, repentant, worshipping, and traveling - [ones] previously married and virgins.

F00028:
where please?

Where what? why are you delibrately ignoring the truth? I have already posted this and you are asking me where? Jesus was crucified with two sinners, just like the prophecy told. they were three that was killed same day, Jesus was numbered with the thieves on the cross.

Isaiah 53:12
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[a]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
[b]because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors

or they were talking about someone else (e.g Isaiah 53),or it doesn't mean what you think it means, or that's not what the Prophets actually said. remember Jeremiah 8:8?

You are suggesting that thesame scrolls that Jesus used were corrupt? I ASKED YOU,Isn't this denying the old prophets? you said no but infact, that is exactly the truth. Jesus perfectly fulfilled these propheies as previewsly seen. Since you said He was not the one in these prophecies, who then do you fits in? Is it hard for you to do such? it is your choice to be dishonest. The open truth of the messiah' coming is all in the OLD book. You were trying to blame Paul, that was why i suggested we remove Paul and discuss on the OLD TESTAMENT. But it seems you have refused to accept the plain truth given in details OLD TESTAMENT PROPHCIES AND HOW THEY WERE FULFILLED IN THE NEW TESTAMEN. IT WAS ASTONISHING FOR YOU, BUT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NEVER TO BELIEVE WHAT IS IN THE BIBLE, EXCEPT THE ONES YOU CAN USE TO TAG ISLAM. JUST LIKE THE TITLE OF YOUR THREAD. KNOW IT THAT IF YOU DENIES THESE PROPHECIES YOU ARE EQUALLY MAKING A LAUGH OF YOURSELF BY USING THE BIBLE TO VALIDATE ISLAM.

God has other sons in your bible
ex 4:22, jer 31:9, ps 2:7

DID I SAY HE HASN'T OTHER SONS? THE BIBLE SAID : Romans 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.JESUS BIRTH WAS PROPHECIES Even The woman in which through her Jesus will be born was in the prophecy. ALL this CAME TO PASS in validating the prophecy.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel.[d] The fulfillment are in these verses: Matthew 1:22-23 Luke 1:26-31

so did Jeremiah. read jer 1:5

You are not serious, is that what the Quran told you? that Jeremiah pre-existed? ..
God forms man in the womb is by being the author of nature. God has exercised a more particular control as in the birth of Jeremiah because he was going to commission him for a special, peculiar work before he was even born.
"Set you apart means God approved and sanctified him(set him apart) and ordained (commissioned) him before he was born - verse 5. Set apart for scred use from a profane. Samson, Samuel, John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, Paul. Were also set apart for special work of God.
This has nothing to do with pre-existance. Jesus made it clear that He was with Yahweh before He was born. You believe it or not it doesn't change the word of God, itjust puts you in this cage.

[size=14pt]1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.[/size]
Muhammed denies this, so He is one!

F00028:
what original bible?
you didn’t compile the bible until about 300 years after Jesus Christ was gone. don’t you know your history?

any lay person can figure out the bible has been changed by just looking at the 73 books of the roman catholic bible as against the 66 books of the protestants and wonder: is it 7 books more or 7 books less?


really? your background in arabic enabled you to come up with that? because i know a certain website that would be offended by you claiming their credit.

anyway,many a Prophet did fight and many a prophet was killed.

God’s last Prophet stated “this Quran has been revealed in seven different ways so recite it in the way easiest for you”.

WHO IS GODS LAST PROPHET? HOW DO YOU PROVE THAT? yYOU MAKE ME LAUGH, YOU THINK WE DO NOT KNOW HOW THE QURAN WAS EDITED BY THE MAN WHO WAS WRITING FOR MOHAMMED? WHY WAS HE KILLED? MUHAMMED KILLED HIM BECAUSE THE MAN REVEALED HE DOES NOT TRUST MUHAMMED PROPHECIS BECAUSE MUHAMMED WAS ACCPTING HIM TO MODIFY THE TEXT. HE KILLED THE MAN AND MANIPULATE HIS DEAD BODY AND ADDED THIS TO HIS MIRACLE LIST?
THE QURAN HAS MANY ERRORS BECAUSE OF MODIFICATION/EDIT. HISTORY IS NOT ISLAM FRIENDLY YOU KNOW...

proo212: This is supposed to be word of God. Umar bin Al-Khattab tells Mohammed something, Mohammed likes it and suddenly Allah reveals it to Mohammed JUST AS UMAR SAID IT. Allah must have liked what Umar mentioned to Mohammed. Is he all knowing and wise?

Hahahahahahaha...............;;I DIDN'T SEE THAT..........;THIS op, THINKS WE ARE IGNORANTS, HE THINKS HE CAN COME HERE AND TELL US STORIES JUST LIKE THEY DID TO OUR HAUSA'S WEN NO SABI READ THOSE DAYS .........

alienvirus: Christianity is such a deception . A load of crap. Why? Because Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of israel not Nigerians.

MUHAMMED WAS NOT EVEN CHOSEN.....HE IS NOT IN THE PROPHETIC LINE. HE IS ARABIAN/allah prophet of the three godesses!

When Mohammad began preaching the Arabic god, Allah, had a wife and three daughters. Allah was the moon god, a source maintained in the Islamic crescent moon, and the top god in the Arabic pantheon. His wife was the sun goddess, Atthar. Their daughters, Al-Lat (morning star), Al-Uzza (patron goddess of Mecca), and Manat (evening star) were all high goddesses. Let me stop here for now...

^
Looks like the trinity the father, the son and the holy spirit, similar to Hindu trinity which came way before Paul fantasies indeed. as usual they can defend their religion without rushing to hide behind the Qur'an! The greatest tragedy of the bible remains all the authors are anonymous individuals, infact the gospel bears no name of the writer, christians simply named anonymous book by any name they thought fit, I wonder what the gospel according to Luke means? Why not the gospel by luke? Off course those who print the bible would tell u point black, we really don't know who wrote what, yet Christians stake their salvation on anonymous individuals . . . Confusion galore indeed!

Stalwert: ^
Looks like the trinity the father, the son and the holy spirit, similar to Hindu trinity which came way before Paul fantasies indeed. as usual they can defend their religion without rushing to hide behind the Qur'an! The greatest tragedy of the bible remains all the authors are anonymous individuals, infact the gospel bears no name of the writer, christians simply named anonymous book by any name they thought fit, I wonder what the gospel according to Luke means? Why not the gospel by luke? Off course those who print the bible would tell u point black, we really don't know who wrote what, yet Christians stake their salvation on anonymous individuals . . . Confusion galore indeed!

It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, in the Pagan Arabian religion, Allah was the name of the principal deity in Mecca who had three daughters (S53:19/20): Uzzah; Lat; Manat. According to their traditions they acted as Allah's INTERCESSORS.

Hey, take it easy, history has no friend. With history you know a god call Allah, abi you see Muhammed with ur crocro eyes?

Same here, History made me know Yahweh, i wasn't around when the book was penned. So i just wont die because someone say something about Yahweh.
I trust He can defend himself.

Stalwert: ^
Looks like the trinity the father, the son and the holy spirit, similar to Hindu trinity which came way before Paul fantasies indeed. as usual they can defend their religion without rushing to hide behind the Qur'an! The greatest tragedy of the bible remains all the authors are anonymous individuals, infact the gospel bears no name of the writer, christians simply named anonymous book by any name they thought fit, I wonder what the gospel according to Luke means? Why not the gospel by luke? Off course those who print the bible would tell u point black, we really don't know who wrote what, yet Christians stake their salvation on anonymous individuals . . . Confusion galore indeed!

I will ask again, what is the issue with Paul?

alexis:
It is your claim, not mine. You tell us since you have "both" books with you

which of two books have you never seen or can't you get your hands on?

"Christian Bibles range from the sixty-six
books of the Protestant canon to the
eighty-one books of the Ethiopian
Orthodox Church canon..."
feel free to visit the fountain of all human knowledge for the rest. yes, wikipedia!

alexis:
So, you are claiming that the Bible is not corrupt

so, that's how your mind works?

alexis:
Hahahaha, your ignorance or sheer determination to refute history and obvious proof is interesting. I will give you two Surahs from the Quran that quoted the Bible word for word...

Hahahaha, your ignorance or sheer determination to stretch the obvious is interesting.

Surah 5:45 confirms to the Prophet Muhammad a law God had already given specifically to the Prophet Moses in the T O R A H not the "Bible".

Surah 21:105 relates to him a piece of scripture revealed to the Prophet David specifically contained in the Z A B U R (eng., Psalms) not the "Bible".

the "Bible" is collection of books written over centuries by many different authors some of which are anonymous

alexis:
Do you want Surah's from your Quran? Here is one for you

Surah 3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Here is another one

Surah 21:91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

I dont see "Bible" anywhere.
remember, this was your claim:
alexis: The Quran itself testifies that
the Bible is the Word of God.

alexis: Your own Quran confirms Jesus' virgin birth...

of course

alexis: and that He was the Word of God...

no doubt

alexis: and the Spirit of God...

yes and the same Spirit was breathed into Adam- Qur'an 15:29, Qur'an 32:9

alexis: who put on the flesh of man.

those are your own words

alexis: Please read them carefully.

you read them carefully if want to keep using them!

alexis: My arabic background has nothing to do with the differences between the arabic words qutila and qatala..

hey, you tried to front, got busted- live with it.

But Allah said in Surah 36:14 that Paul was a messenger of Allah. Do you now disagree with Allah or what?

Surah 36:14 Sahih International
When We sent to them two but they denied them, so We strengthened them with a third, and they said, "Indeed, we are messengers to you."

36:14 When We (first) sent to them two apostles, they rejected them: But We strengthened them with a third: they said, "Truly, we have been sent on a mission to you."

Can you see that? Allah strengthened that with Paul. This means Paul is an apostle of Allah. If Paul is an apostle of Allah, what beef do you have with him?

proo212: But Allah said in Surah 36:14 that Paul was a messenger of Allah. Do you now disagree with Allah or what?

Surah 36:14 Sahih International
When We sent to them two but they denied them, so We strengthened them with a third, and they said, "Indeed, we are messengers to you."

36:14 When We (first) sent to them two apostles, they rejected them: But We strengthened them with a third: they said, "Truly, we have been sent on a mission to you."

Can you see that? Allah strengthened that with Paul. This means Paul is an apostle of Allah. If Paul is an apostle of Allah, what beef do you have with him?

paul's name or anyone else's is not mentioned. how do you figure its him?

F00028:

paul's name or anyone else's is not mentioned. how do you figure its him?

Brother you should entertain every rubbish this people throw at you they do this out of their incapability to address the thread!

plappville: Where what? why are you delibrately ignoring the truth? I have already posted this and you are asking me where?..

why are you deliberately over stretching it? we have gone over this already. no way Isaiah 53 is talking about the Jesus the son of Mary (peace be upon them) unless you use your fertile imagination like you did a few posts ago.

plappville: You are suggesting that thesame scrolls that Jesus used were corrupt? I ASKED YOU,Isn't this denying the old prophets? you said no but...

I am not suggesting anything, Jeremiah is saying it quite openly:
"How is it that you say, We are wise and the law of the Lord is with us? But see, the false pen of the scribes has made it false." Jer. 8:8

plappville: DID I SAY HE HASN'T OTHER SONS?

Then Jesus being the "son of God is not that special especially when you look at the son of God, Adam.

Jesus was made to be in the womb of a young jewish girl, Mary 2000 years ago. in Adam's case there wasn't even a womb to carry him to term.

plappville:
[size=14pt]1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.[/size]
Muhammed denies this, so He is one!

You really should stop reading about the Quran and actually read the Quran if you want to keep attempting to use it against Muslims.
God's last revelation states quite clearly Jesus is the Christ! Quran 4:171
if you are looking for people who deny Jesus is the Christ, the look to every living jew alive today.

and when you say Allah is just a moon god then Jesus was calling to a false god on the cross because

F00028:
the Aramaic word for God is "Alah" according to the Lexicon offered at http: www.peshitta.org/ .

image: W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, William White Jr., Vine's Complete Exposition Dictionary , Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, TN, 1996

@Stalwert & F00028, what you guys do not understand is that your Quran asks you to listen to your scholars. Who else to listen to but Ibn Kathir, Al-Qurtubi, Al-Jalalayn etc

Surah 3:7

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

This is the tafsir of Ibn Kathir, one of your greatest scholars/commentators on the Quran....If Ibn Kathir can say what he said, do you know better than Ibn Kathir? Read the commentary, it says of Surah 36:14 that 2 were sent (Shamun - Simon and Yuhanna -John) and they disbelieved them and they were strengthened by a third and his name was Bulus - Paul. Go and ask the Arabs what they call Paul in Arabic and the city was Antioch - Antakiyah. I waited for you to conclude in your minds that i did not know what i was saying.

Its up to you to accept that even your scholars had no issue with Paul the Apostle. A lot of questions raised here but i wait for you to come back...

When We sent to them two Messengers, they denied them both;
means, they hastened to disbelieve in them.
... فَعَزَّزْنَا بِثَالِثٍ ...
so We reinforced them with a third,
means, `We supported and strengthened them with a third Messenger.'
Ibn Jurayj narrated from Wahb bin Sulayman, from Shu`ayb Al-Jaba'i,
"The names of the first two Messengers were Sham`un and Yuhanna, and the name of the third was Bulus, and the city was Antioch (Antakiyah).
... فَقَالُوا ...
and they said,
means, to the people of that city,
... إِنَّا إِلَيْكُم مُّرْسَلُونَ ﴿١٤﴾
Verily, we have been sent to you as Messengers.
meaning, `from your Lord Who created you and Who commands you to worship Him Alone with no partners or associates.'
This was the view of Abu Al-Aliyah.
Qatadah bin Di`amah claimed that;
they were messengers of the Messiah, peace be upon him, sent to the people of Antioch.

http://www.quran4u.com/Tafsir%20Ibn%20Kathir/036%20Yasin.htm

F00028:
why are you deliberately over stretching it? we have gone over this already. no way Isaiah 53 is talking about the Jesus the son of Mary (peace be upon them) unless you use your fertile imagination like you did a few posts ago.


I am not suggesting anything, Jeremiah is saying it quite openly:
"How is it that you say, We are wise and the law of the Lord is with us? But see, the false pen of the scribes has made it false." Jer. 8:8


Then Jesus being the "son of God is not that special especially when you look at the son of God, Adam.

Jesus was made to be in the womb of a young jewish girl, Mary 2000 years ago. in Adam's case there wasn't even a womb to carry him to term.


You really should stop reading about the Quran and actually read the Quran if you want to keep attempting to use it against Muslims.
God's last revelation states quite clearly Jesus is the Christ! Quran 4:171
if you are looking for people who deny Jesus is the Christ, the look to every living jew alive today.

and when you say Allah is just a moon god then Jesus was calling to a false god on the cross because

You can deny the Allah's three goddesses if you like, but you cant change the truth. The name Allah was used by the pagans before Mohammed invented Islam. Like I said before, History is not anyone' friend. If you think you know the prophecy so much. Provide who fulfilled it how he did it. And if you claim it's nit yet fulfilled. Then you deny the prophecy.

You really should stop reading about the Quran and actually read the Quran if you want to keep attempting to use it against Muslims. God's last revelation states quite clearly Jesus is the Christ! Quran 4:171 if you are looking for people who deny Jesus is the Christ, the look to every living jew alive today.

and when you say Allah is just a moon god then Jesus was calling to a false god on the cross because

Muhammad denies The messiah' claims....He fits the false prophet. Look st you. Denying that Jesus did not fulfilled the messiah prophecy. Where did you get that false claim from? KOran of course. So the liar according to 1 John 2:22 is Islam and other sects that rejected Jesus as the son of God that He died on the cross, that Is death was not to save man from sin. Such sects are anti-christ .

Stop saying that Jesus called the goddesses at the cross. You people claimed He didn't die, so how can you claim he called Allah on a cross? That never excited? UNA dey make sense at all?ssee why ur thread contradict itself. The false bible spoke about ur authentic religion.

Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.

You have been avoiding this so Allah did not fulfilled this?

Before they begin to try and disprove the tafsir, you can see the chain of narrations (Ibn Jurayj narrated from Wahb bin Sulayman, from Shu`ayb Al-Jaba'i,) this proves its authenticity because its not just one person speaking it...

2 questions regarding this Surah 36:14 verse is who sent these messengers? Is it Allah or is it the Messiah? Clearly not Allah because we know that Simon and John and Paul were Apostles of Christ. But a prophet CANNOT send messengers! Mohammed did not send any messengers but Christ sent messengers and the Quran confirms this!

So if Christ can send messengers, that means Christ is God.

Second question Hadeeth Narrated Abu Huraira(RA) that the Prophet(SAW) said:

There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace be upon him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.
(Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 37, No. 4310)

But Christ sent these messengers and they came before the messenger of Allah. Either Christ did not send these messengers or the messenger of Allah got his revelations mixed up. They cannot both be true.

Stalwert and F00028 please answer

@proo212 ibn Kathir was presenting the view of al Jaba’i just like he reported the view of ibn Ishaq who doesnt mention any bulus and neither does Qurtubi you mentioned.

the fact of the matter is God didn't reveal their names or named the city and neither did His Prophet because it's not important.

proo212: Before they begin to try and disprove the tafsir, you can see the chain of narrations (Ibn Jurayj narrated from Wahb bin Sulayman, from Shu`ayb Al-Jaba'i,) this proves its authenticity because its not just one person speaking it...

2 questions regarding this Surah 36:14 verse is who sent these messengers? Is it Allah or is it the Messiah? Clearly not Allah because we know that Simon and John and Paul were Apostles of Christ. But a prophet CANNOT send messengers! Mohammed did not send any messengers but Christ sent messengers and the Quran confirms this!

So if Christ can send messengers, that means Christ is God.

Second question Hadeeth Narrated Abu Huraira(RA) that the Prophet(SAW) said:



But Christ sent these messengers and they came before the messenger of Allah. Either Christ did not send these messengers or the messenger of Allah got his revelations mixed up. They cannot both be true.

Stalwert and F00028 please answer

There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace be upon him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam.[size=16pt] He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him. [/size]
(Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 37, No. 4310)

Who will live for 40 yrs and then die??

proo212:
2 questions regarding this Surah 36:14 verse is who sent these messengers?

at best they are emissaries of Jesus Christ and not messengers of Allah.

a direct messenger of Allah is called specially, 'Rasool' but here they are called 'mursaloon'. so none of them is rasool as corroborated by hadith you quoted, there is no rasool in between Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them.

...and paul, the self appointed 13th disciple is no "mursaloon".

.

plappville: Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.

You have been avoiding this so Allah did not fulfilled this?

you find its fulfillment in the hadith you quoted from the sunan of Abu Dawud above.

plappville:
Muhammad denies The messiah' claims....He fits the false prophet. Look st you. Denying that Jesus did not fulfilled the messiah prophecy....

look madam plappville, there are about 16 messianic prophesies in the ot. find another one that fits Jesus.
forget dat Isaiah 53 cos dat one no go ever fit Jesus Christ unless you rewrite am.

plappville: Stop saying that Jesus called the goddesses at the cross. You people claimed He didn't die, so how can you claim he called Allah on a cross? ...

Alah is the aramaic word for God (Arabic: Allah) and You say he called out to God before he was killed on the cross. so since you say Allah/Alah is a false deity, well.....

As at the time of Jesus death the world's population was btw 200-300million people. History recorded Jesus to have been born and operated in the middle east. Life was in other part of the world where Jesus and his story didn't reach.... Eg. West Africa, India, China South America etc.

It was easy to paint Jesus story for people around the place where he lived for they were less than 10million people, a today's population of Oyo and Ogun states. Jesus will come back, Jesus will fight when he returns, Jesus will sneak in like a thief...... Etc of cock and bull.

The world is 7billion today 2033years after the said death of Jesus. Jesus story was only told to handful of people, then propaganda started 500yrs after the death of Jesus, the bible came as a tool to bind people, make them subject to something. Politics wasn't enough to tie people. Religion was fabricated to give us a sense of fear with words like... Thou shall not judge.... Ofcos the drafters of the bible wanted total control, so why would they want you to judge them?

Jesus is coming back: Really? Stop kidding me. Coming from where? Which country or state? Nigeria and Ghana is almost 300million people today..... Same population Jesus left as at time of death. If Jesus is to come back today, he won't even be noticed and would do jack. The world of 10million is not the world of 7billion.

The analogy or figurative speech you all say was used..... Na holy spirit speak the grammar?...... Kolomental!

Religion is a tool of slavery, perpetual mental bondage tool used to control your minds.

This is why pastors would tell you to pay offering and tithes so you will get money and blessings...... The same way, the drafters of the bible used tithes and offerings to amass wealth back in the days.

Stop being stupid! #freeyourmindsthinkwithyourbrains