Tithes And Offerings - Religion (112) - Nairaland
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"Stop Giving Offerings In Redeemed Churches If....." - Pastor Adeboye / Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles / Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 3:54pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
DrummaBoy: OBLIGATION i like it that you're beginning to use dictionaries. It would improve your english and communication greatly, not your spirit man though. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 4:02pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
Image123 Now that you have presented my seeming inconsistency and yours has been clearly proven, not by me but by the audience, I will leave them to judge your "evidence" and conclude whether indeed I was inconsistent as you would have everyone believe. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 4:06pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
DrummaBoy: Image123 It's not always about an audience, do you fear God? 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by christemmbassey(m): 4:19pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
Image123:bros pls explain how/where/when pay 10% of ur money or die bcomes a freewill giving. Bless u. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 5:53pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
Image123: After your inconsistency has been proven and you find no such in me, you proceed to use psychology on me. Ok. Issoray. You too... do you fear God? And BTW go through all my topics and posts, and you can be sure you won't find anything to nail me. The one on Paul's letters is obviously not sufficient. Keep searching. As for you... it is not far fetched at all; but I have better things to use my time for. Bring them on; I am waiting. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 6:09pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
dorox: This thread is on the 111th page. i'll like to think that you have done a fair reading through. Most of the questions asked or to be asked have ALREADY being answered. It is why it becomes cumbersome to re-answer them again and again, especially when it is the same people or place that the question is presented by or in. Oh, forget demisquare by the way. If that fellow told me that my username is "shdemidemi123", i would not go out of my way to disagree with him. He has that 'gift' of pulling a lot of wool as it were. The key to your query is in your words "under the old covenant". We are NOT UNDER the law, or UNDER the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, tithe CAN BE a freewill form of giving. i'll explain with analogy, then in my next post with scriptures. Under the old covenant, CIRCUMCISION was "coerced"(if that is the proper word to use). However, today under grace, i can physically circumcise my child, and i can choose not to. The fact that it was obligatory under the old Covenant doesn't mean that it cannot be done freewill today. i can choose today to observe the sabbath as best as i can, whether on Saturday or any day. Can choose not to do any work, worship God and whatever else sabbatical that can be done. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 6:30pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
christemmbassey: bros pls explain how/where/when pay 10% of ur money or die bcomes a freewill giving. Bless u. StarBoard: There was nothing inconsistent in what i said. That you do not understand it doesn't mean it is inconsistent. Your post is what is inconsistent as it oscillates between a polite question and a rude jeer. Sorry, i might not answer every question posed here as that has been done severalLY both on this thread and on it's sister threads in the past. i'll give you at least TWO witnesses/passages as in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. PASSAGE WITNESS 1. This passage is a COMMAND for a WILLING offering. That is how it is possible to have a command for freewill. If you're familiar with the passage, this should suffice. Every man brought and were regarded as the wise hearted ones. Bible definition of free will. PASSAGE WITNESS 2. Here is another voluntary will or free will offering. that something is free will does not mean that it can not be specified. For instance, even though the offering was free will, they could not bring a dog, or a cattle that had blemish. They still had some other protocol and specifications to follow before the offering would be ACCEPTED by God or even by the priests. Freewill is not exactly 'anything i feel like'. At least, not always that definition. If you noticed the 1st passage too, God had specific demands for the tabernacle, yet the people gave willingly. That is how it is possible to give a command willingly. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 6:34pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
Image123: Image123 Let me tell you why this analogy is not true. The reason anti tithers take the position they take against tithing is because of the way and manner tithes are generally taught and practiced in our churches. Now after years of debating this topic, you have now found a safe haven in calling tithes "free will giving"; good for you. It shows we are making progress. But those pastors out there do not agree with you. Permit me to relay my story again (though you hate to hear it). I decided to stop tithing March last year. The church I attended will boast of some 1,500 members. I had some 300 of them on my Facebook. After a few months of silence, one day in July or so I posted something on my wall to say in effect I no longer tithe. It generated some debate bc I no be small person for church. One day my wife returns home to inform me if I have read the conditions to be s true member of the church? I had but maybe not paid attention to details. The last item said "you MUST be a FAITHFUL tither to be a member of the church". I knew I was in trouble. Long story short, I had to leave the church eventually. What is free will giving in that? My guy forget semantics. In the real world where tithing is practiced most of these churches expect you to PAY your tithe: you owe it to God and to them, that's what they teach. That's what we oppose. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 6:56pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
Image123: Question: Was the command for free will giving a command to give tithes? Where did God COMMAND tithes to be given as FREE WILL in the old testament? Is this passage, which you are quoting, not lending support to our position that God’s demand or even command on the Christian is to give free will and not obligatory tithing? Can you see from this passage that God saw that Israel had gold, silver and bronze but never requested them to tithe in those? Rather he requested his tithes to be agricultural products? Why then do you call tithes money? While your point about God commanding a free will offering is understood, you clearly are being economical with the truth if you claim modern day tithing is taught as free will giving. It certainly is not. 4 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 9:17pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
God never said the commanded tithe was to be a free will offering. Tithe advocates constantly add to the Word of God in order to deceive more people into giving away their money under false pretenses. 4 Likes
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings by BabaGnoni: 9:19pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
MarkMiwerds: ^^^ Pastors including tithe advocates, don't just add to the Word of God in order to deceive more people into giving away their money under false pretenses, they actually also do twist and change addressees in verse(s) to suit dark and greedy ulterior motives When did He say that? Aye one of those bogeyman verses again pastors use to scare the living daylights out of the church and make her quake in the boots with fear He said it in Malachi 3:9, only it wasn't even about money "Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation" - Mal 3:9 there in the verse, He was referring to the they robbed God, even It is about the Levites, rebuking the Levites for withholding their tithes so thereby not providing for the priests who had no inheritance in the land Pastors have twisted this verse, changed the addressee in the verse, turned the verse around from themselves, diverting and pointing it at the church And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel - Num 18:20 KJV And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation - Num 18:21 KJV Pastors have conveniently refused to properly and correctly teach the church the biblical truth of Malachi 3:9 and whom exactly that verse was addressing or talking about It is OK sha. Diaris God ooo. 5 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 9:58pm On Jul 24, 2014 |
Leviticus 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings by BabaGnoni: 7:53am On Jul 25, 2014 |
Magazine / Issues / Issue 19 / Money in Christian History (II): Christian History Timeline Dates and Events Regarding Money. 197–198 Tertullian explains Christian finances in his Apology: “Even if there is a chest of a sort, it is not made up of money paid in entrance-fees, as if religion were a matter of contract. Every man once a month brings some modest coin —or whenever he wishes, and only if he does wish, and if he can; for nobody is compelled; it is a voluntary offering. You might call them the trust funds of piety. For they are not spent upon banquets nor drinking-parties nor thankless eating-houses; but to feed the poor and to bury them, for boys and girls who lack property and parents, and then for slaves grown old and shipwrecked mariners; and any who may be in mines, islands, or prisons . . . .” . . . 1895 Wesley Chapel in Cincinnati has financial trouble. In desperation, it tries “suppers, festivals, lectures, stereopticon shows, subscriptions, and the whole round of man-made schemes and devices,” according to layman William G. Roberts. Finally, Roberts and others introduce the concept of “storehouse tithing,” which turns the church around. Tithing is revived as a popular practice in U.S. churches. Money in Christian History (II): Christian History Timeline https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/money-in-christian-history-ii-timeline/ 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by PastorKun(m): 8:03am On Jul 25, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: Magazine / Issues / Issue 19 / Money in Christian History (II): Christian History Timeline Not even the most vociferous tithe defenders on this forum have been able to dispute the fact the modern tithe doctrine was smuggled into christianity as recently as 1895 by american evangelicals. Another overwhelming evidence that it is a fraudulent man made doctrine designed to make money for it's promoters. 5 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by nora544: 8:30am On Jul 25, 2014 |
PastorKun: I always write that this tithing comes from america and not from europa because we didnot have it, and for me I hear it for the first time from a student from nigeria and than I start to search and ask a friend who study religion at an University in my country and at the moment he is working on his PHD and it is about the influence of the new churches from america and that they have a bad influence to their followers. I told him when he has finish his work that he should give it to a friend that he can translate it in english and that he can give it as a free book to read that some people wake up and see the truth. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 8:30am On Jul 25, 2014 |
Image123:Really? It has now become a case of me misunderstanding simply because you cannot convince me beyond shadow of a doubt that tithing is "not compulsory" according to you? You really think that those of us who choose not to argue aimlessly do not know what we read in our bibles. The Bible is very clear about tithing in the old testament. You do not need to put out scriptures to convince anyone of this. Tithing in its purest forms was mandatory for the children of Israel under the Mosaic Law. Because you want to advocate for its necessity in an age where Christ's death and resurrection has effectively put an end to practices of the Law (tithing inclusive), you decide to spin it as being a form of free will offering. Image123:you must think we are illiterates here. A command compels you to do something, irrespective of your state of mind or disposition to that issue. The irony in the above is there for all to see. If you really believe the above, then I am not sure how best to reply you. I attend the Redeemed Christian Church of God. For me to serve in any of the ministry arms(i.e. a worker), I MUST be a tither, proven with records of payment. It is one of the criteria. How is that free will giving? Is that not extortion by blackmail? Image123:Oga please park well. You are not talking to children in the Sunday School. You know what freewill offering means. All this talk to justify a position that doesn't require any kind of justification is not necessary. 4 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by nora544: 8:54am On Jul 25, 2014 |
I attend the Redeemed Christian Church of God. that show me that RCCG church is a big scam because I work also in my country in the church, with children and at that time i live alone with my child and my salary was very small (it was under 1000 euro per month) and I couldnot pay the churchtax but this was never a problem. the churchtaxd in my country is for catholics 1,1% from the income they have in one year and when you had a child and your income per month is under 1000 euro you have to pay no churchtax. Your great man of God, or Daddy G.O. want only to build his own empire and he is a big lier also because I can tell you that from the churches he has in my country 60% are no real churches because they didnot exist!!!!!!!!!!!! It is only tho show how many churches he has in all parts of the world and it is not only in my country also in some other countries in europa!!!!!!!! 3 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by cleric(m): 10:40am On Jul 25, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: Magazine / Issues / Issue 19 / Money in Christian History (II): Christian History Timeline 3 Likes
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 12:09pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
nora544:He is not my man of God. I look to Jesus the author and Finisher of my faith (or whatever there is left of it). There are several teachings and doctrines taught in several pentecostal churches these days that are in direct error with what the Bible prescribes or advises. Tithing is one of them. Lately, even in the Sunday school teachings in RCCG and in sermons that have no direct bearing, tithing manages to find its way into the subject matter in my parish. The other day, as part of our Sunday school teaching, we were discussing Restitution, and one of the ways we were told by the manual to perform Restitution was back-payment of tithe. I laughed and walked off. Concerning the emboldened, It would be a shame if that were the case. I wonder what they stand to gain by claiming things as theirs which do not exist? Is it any wonder that Pentecostalism is in the state it is when we have people making false claims and forcing us to pay tithes. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by nora544: 12:19pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
StarBoard: I read that Adeboye got the information about first fruit tithing from an other so called great man from the RCCG church, i know also that he told his followers that God told him that his followers has to tithe!!!!!!!!!! What I hear from a friend in Poland (he lives in Poland but was in austria for some time to study religion and to learn the language)that Adeboye was there for a congress from the church and only few people where there and you will see no photos from that event so you know why!!!!!!!!!! |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 12:29pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
nora544:Another scam is the first fruit. But we are digressing. Let Image123 come and explain the emboldened with the usual verbal gymnastics because I have also heard him(Adeboye) say something similar, in fact he even devised another formula to pay 20% of what you were owing and all what not. All these so-called men of God reducing God to an Economist. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 1:59pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
Image123: By the "fear" of God, what do you mean? There's no fear in love and perfect love cast out fear. You're suppose to have grown in the word. You keep using old to explain new (complete and better) testament\covenant or just simply mixing both and confusing yourself. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:05pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
MarkMiwerds: God gave you a ministry to prevent believers from giving in His Church?! Has it ever crossed your mind that you might have mistaken God for the devil?  |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:06pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
Image123: He must be a joker.  |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:11pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
MarkMiwerds: In other words, the people of God will be free from giving to God and cheerfully give the least if at all.  |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 3:23pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
StarBoard: Whenever I attack the false practices in the RCCG, people think I hate but no, I don't. I was also a member of RCCG and I see all kinds of falsehood in that gathering, running from leadership to the bottom. One of which you mentioned above. Someone might not even be joined together in wedding without evidence of tithing in RCCG, because daddy G.O will not join "robbers" in the house of God. Isn't that falsehood? And still, some of our brethren here will tell us not to call Adeboye out on this error just because he's "anointed" and\or he's always right. These generation of Christians must come to the knowledge of truth in Christ and be free from traditions of men. 4 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Candour(m): 3:24pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: Hi Olaa, don't you think you deliberately misrepresented Mark in this your post? As far as I can read, There's nothing in his post which you quoted that remotely suggests what you accuse him of. Isn't that deceptive? Is tithe the ONLY means by which man gives to God? I know the desire to win arguments or trip the other party up exists in all humans but don't you think this is taking it too far? 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:28pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
frosbel: Are you saying FT ministers are not to be paid or that they should be no FT ministers? "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture says, You shall not muzzle the ox that treads out the corn. And the labourer is worthy of his reward" (1 Timothy 5:17-18; compare to 1 Cor.9:13-15). |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Candour(m): 3:32pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: 2 Corinthians 8:1-2 KJV Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia; [2] How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. The verse above describes the manner of giving of the Macedonian church and they are those Paul used as example referenced in the scripture Mark quoted. See the bolded. Does that look like folks who didnt want to give or when they did, gave the least possible to God? Or you can prove it was tithes they paid? 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:34pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
Candour: Did you not see a question and exclamation mark at the end of the first sentence? Why didn't you allow Mark to respond to the question instead of jumping into hasty conclusions? Is tithes not a form of giving? and if Mark says that he's been called to prevent tithe giving why do you have to put words into his mouth? |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 3:37pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU:No, Olaadegbu. I encourage giving. I frown on people giving because of lies told from such as you. God's Word tells us we should give. What it does not tell us to do, is tithe our money. The monetary tithe is a lie invented by the Catholic Church and believed and endorsed by simple people who don't believe God's Word concerning tithes. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 3:38pm On Jul 25, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU:Go ahead and mock, Olaadegbu. You only show more of your ignorance of what God's Word says concerning our giving and stewardship. |
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