Image123:


hahahahaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, God has given me a ministry, you people will not injure people with jokes one day.

Bidam: very hilarious wetin peson no go see for nairaland

Goshen360:

Long time my brother.

You've discovered the law and Grace don't mix together. Are you still isolating only tithe from the law as something you don't wanna do away with? Grace based giving had met the demands of the law. Your Christian life must be completely ruled by the Grace of God, not just some aspects. Take more time, back out of teachings you've absorbed in the past and spend more time in the school of the Spirit where there's illumination and freedom of Christ.

Bidam: good to see u bro.hope you are good.Christians in the NT can draw guidelines from the OT scriptures for practical giving TODAY.That does not mean we therefore come under the operation of the old covenant of judaism.NO rather just as apostle Paul drew largely from the levetical system in the law of Moses to teach about giving for ministers of the gospel,so it is ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE that many christians express their givings in the form of tithes in their churches.

Well thanks for the brotherly advice,i have been studying my bible and i also hope you take your own piece of advice and study too,.Cheers

Goshen360:

That scripture that talks about "giving to those ministers of the gospel" is grossly abused and taken out of context. Please, investigate that scripture and see if that temple system still applies today for the SAME principles to also apply. Paul, also mentioned a giving that is from the cheerful heart, is tithe an example of such or of a commandment, convenient or not?

So, what happened was, Paul, drew example to parallel a grace based giving under the new agreement of grace. You can't live in the USA and operate by the rules, regualations and laws of Nigeria. Also, there're examples in the old but we can't make our balance with them of old. Scripture says, without us whom Christ died, they of old are imperfect\not complete....we're complete in Christ.

Goshen360:



So, what happened was, Paul, drew example to parallel a grace based giving under the new agreement of grace. .

Bidam: GRACE has always been there.The words yu said here has been what i have been saying all along.,,Maybe you do not like the way and manner in which i said it. The truth of the matter is that anti tithing campaigns have not inspired an increased or healthy giving in the body of Christ nt even in the USA where u base.

Goshen360:

First, it has freed people from demands of the law and lunched them into a grace based giving. People can now give whatever they have from a sincere heart and without being coerced.

What I'm saying is, it is not the example Paul drew that he concluded on but the grace based giving.....remember, book of corinthians doesn't end in that chapter where he talked about giving to those who minister the gospel. I have to go to work now, talk to you another time brother. Stay graceful.

Bidam: i am also against coerced giving in any form....

Bidam: you mean you have stopped preaching salvation message abi My bro stop deceiving yourself here what yu stated is not a ministry but your lust and carnality

Bidam: I partly agree that ministers need to support themselves just as Apostle Paul supported himself and wasn't a burden to anyone by tent making.

I am no beneficiary of tithes but just a giver and a lover of God.Thanks.

shdemidemi:

How about coerce giving in the form of tithing, are you against that too?

Bidam: Pls if there is anywhere i lay claim that the tithe is mandatory you can quote it.i am getting bored over the same old recyled arguments here.

shdemidemi:

How about coerce giving in the form of tithing, are you against that too?

shdemidemi:

I did not accuse you of anything whatsoever, I only asked a question.

I take it that you wouldn't support a tithing law that requires 10% of monthly salary in the church.

Bidam: Go and start reading from d beginning o the threa sir.You will know what my stand is thanks.I dont condemn it neither does the scripture.Christians are free to express their givings in the form of tithes if they so wish

Bidam: i am also against coerced giving in any form

shdemidemi:

How about coerce giving in the form of tithing, are you against that too?

Bidam: Pls if there is anywhere i lay claim that the tithe is mandatory you can quote it.i am getting bored over the same old recyled arguments here.

shdemidemi:

I did not accuse you of anything whatsoever, I only asked a question.

I take it that you wouldn't support a tithing law that requires 10% of monthly salary in the church.

DrummaBoy:

Let's start from here:



If you are against COERCED GIVING IN ANY FORM:

Why then do you defend the fraudulent doctrine of tithing on this forum as if it is going out of fashion?

Why do you support a demonic doctrine of returning to the Torah for Christians to learn doctrines?

Why do you sanctify the pharisees, an apostate set of folks in the NT, going to the extent of calling Jesus a pharisee, all to lay justification for the fraudulent practice of tithing?

Why do you vilify those of us who insist that tithing should not be compulsory, or in other words, COERCED?

Why, oh Bidam, do you do all you do on this forum, if you believe that tithing must not be coerced?

Why do you vacillate between two opinions? If the Lord be God then serve him; if it is Baal, then serve him. Why are you neither hot nor cold, oh Bidam?

WHY? WHY?? WHY

christemmbassey: oyel well! Oyel well!! Oyel well!!! Profanity.

christemmbassey: oyel well! Oyel well!! Oyel well!!! Profanity.

MarkMiwerds: My lust and carnality?

What am I lusting after, Bidam? Tell me, if you know?

The fact is, I lust for nothing.

Carnality? Since when is agreeing with Scripture and teaching sound doctrine carnality?

smh

Bidam: i believe you and drumb prob is lack of comprehension skills.coerce means to force people to do smething against there will.I have stated in clear unmistakable terms that tithinh should be voluntary ...

DrummaBoy:

I may not be able to find anywhere you say tithing is by coercion

but your position on this forum betrays it. How?
Paul in Romans 1 was enumerating the evil some men partake in, towards the end, he says something to this effect: that God will punish these men for what they do along with all those who take delight in what they do. The lesson: before God, not only the doer is guilty, so also all who support the doer and those who take delight in what is done. You may not support coerced tithing, but you do support those who advocate it on this forum. And the things I listed above are proof of this and you have not denied them.

This thesis: tithing should not be coerced or made compulsory or obligatory, is the position if every anti tither on this forum. We insist that tithing is not a NT obligation and should not be imposed on Gods people.

This what we advocate for which you and others have vilified us.

But it shows you are a man of conscience and can bow to truth wherever you discover its advocated. Even OLAADEGBU has changed his by fire by force attitude to tithing too, with his recent articles that emphasize giving and not tithing. It shows you guys are listening.

It's the blessing of discussion and I trust God to make all things clearer to us all for we know in part.

Bidam:
Nope, i don't think that is your position. You wouldn't have started a baseless crusade against tithing which is A FORM OF GIVING A in its entirety and take it upon yourself to argue unnecesssarily against the idea of christians tithing in churches if this is actually what you stand for. When you make it a point to accuse people who tithe without providing a scriptural base where it was condemned, i make it a point of duty to point out your errors and tell you that believers are FREE to give wherever they so choose to give-if that giving(includes tithes which you erroneously call fraudulent) is done in Church. .

shdemidemi:

Is tithing a freewill kind of giving or a stipulated law that one is bound to adhere to? Considering the fact that there were consequences and rewards for or for not tithing in the Old Testament.

Bidam: my statements are clear.The question is does God require giving? Did anyone accuse paul or argued with him on why he could not use the law of moses or any part of the OT to teach on practical guidelines of givings in churchesn

Bidam: Since you have not been able to find it why not apologise for accusing falsely. You also have to apologise to Olaa..Image etc because i have never seen them advocate coerced tithing on these thread and other threads...rather it is you and your ilks that take it upon themselves to call those people who tithes judaizers, dogs, theives, false prophets etc...

Nope, i don't think that is your position. You wouldn't have started a baseless crusade against tithing which is A FORM OF GIVING A in its entirety and take it upon yourself to argue unnecesssarily against the idea of christians tithing in churches if this is actually what you stand for. When you make it a point to accuse people who tithe without providing a scriptural base where it was condemned, i make it a point of duty to point out your errors and tell you that believers are FREE to give wherever they so choose to give-if that giving(includes tithes which you erroneously call fraudulent) is done in Church.

I obey the Holy Spirit and not some mumbo-jumbo articles on the internet. Like i told you repeatedly and i am tired of doing so...TITHING IN ITSELF AS A FORM OF GIVING IS NOT CONDEMNED ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE.
Yes we know in part but when the issue is FIXATION on tithes for many years without growing in knowledge and grace in other areas it becomes really worrisome. You that accuse tithers of legalism is actually guilty of the same anti-tithing legalism you accuse them of...Lets leave monetery bickerings and go to maturity..Souls are perishing out there.Cheers.

OLAADEGBU:

Is the tithe for today?

Of all the questions I am asked to answer, this is beyond a doubt the most difficult. Not only because the subject of tithing is hotly debated, but because I must confess that I personally have not always been faithful in giving a tenth or more to the work of the Lord. And I am not alone. Research demonstrates that not only do the vast majority of Christians not tithe regularly, but many give little or nothing at all. Thus, while addressing this question is incredibly convicting, it also is increasingly crucial.

First, as Randy Alcorn has well said, tithing may well be regarded as the training wheels of giving. As such, tithing is as important today as it has ever been. We all need to learn what it is to stride free and unfettered down the path of Christian stewardship. For in learning to give we also are learning to lean more heavily upon our heavenly Father and less heavily upon ourselves. Those who have travelled the Calvary road for any length of time surely can testify to the truth that God is ever faithful. Not only so, but as we weekly set aside our tithes and offerings we are reminded that all we are, or ever hope to be, is a gift from God.

Furthermore, as Moses communicated to the children of Israel, we tithe "so that [we] may learn to revere the Lord [our] God always" (Deuteronomy 14:23). As we all know, learning to reverence the name of God is a timeless principle—as crucial today as in the days of Moses. Long before Moses, the Bible records Jacob’s promise to God: “Of all that you give me I will give you a tenth” (Genesis 28:22). Long after Moses, Jesus reaffirmed the practice of tithing (Matthew 23:23)—not for outward appearances but as an outward expression of an inward reality.

Additionally, in the fourth century the great church father Jerome echoed the words of Malachi who intimated that failing to pay tithes and offerings was tantamount to “robbing” God—a prescription for financial ruin (Malachi 3:8 ).

Finally, it should be noted that tithing in the Old Testament not only prepared God’s people to become hilarious givers but produced a temple of unparalleled splendour. The Israelites who pined for the pleasures and protection of pagan Egypt more than for the One who had miraculously parted the Red Sea had been transformed into joyful givers. The Bible chronicles the prayer of David as he thanked God for the very privilege of being able to give to the work of the Lord: "But who am I, and who are my people, that we should be able to give as generously as this? Everything comes from you, and we have given you only what comes from your hand . . . and now I have seen with joy how willingly your people who are here have given to you" (1 Chronicles 29:14, 17). There is no telling what can be accomplished in our generation if we, too, may but catch the joy of contagious giving. Not only would we be empowered to spread the gospel around the globe, but we would be enabled to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and care for the sick. Like our forefathers who founded great centres of Christian education, established countless hospitals, and funded myriad relief organizations, we might yet leave an indelible mark on our generation. For only when the training wheels of tithing come off will the world of free will giving become our playground.

--Hank Hanegraaff | The Complete Bible Answer Book

For further study, see Randy Alcorn, Money, Possessions and Eternity, rev. ed. (Wheaton, Ill.:Tyndale House Publishers, 2003). http://www.equip.org/bookstore/the-treasure-principle-discovering-the-secret-of-joyful-giving/ or http://www.equip.org/bookstore/books/the-law-of-rewards-giving-what-you-cant-keep-to-gain-what-you-cant-lose/

"Honour the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops; then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine." ---Proverbs 3:9–10

OLAADEGBU:

Honour the LORD with your substance.