There is nothing like liberty to obey a command. That's a contradiction. You are under no liberty to ignore commands
Paying an externally determined fraction is not GIVING. That's why you pay taxes. One asalimpo called tithes taxes.
We are trying as much as possible to liberate Gentiles from the legalistic yoke of tithing imposed on them. In the first century, they contended with circumcision. Today it is tithing. Note, if a Gentile of their own volition opted to undergo circumcision nobody would prevent them. The error was the Jews made it mandatory. Holy Spirit called it a burden. We see them every time. Some are bound by the Sabbath commandment. Others won't shake your hands. They are 'happily' following Moses.

Christ has liberated us from the Law and only requires of us that we purpose in our hearts what to give and this without compulsion. The same Spirit of Christ who convicts you of sin and righteous life is to guide us on what to give. Tithing brigade are terribly scared that the Spirit would NEVER convince anybody to give, so they create commandments with terrible penalties and utopia to prompt giving.

Now,
Matthew 23:23 (KJV) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone

Which part of this scripture tells you to tithe? Please walk me through it

Image123:

i didn't play or joke, i stated facts. Antitithers on NL are infringing on the liberty to give the tithes. Giving out is not bondage to me, especially when it is to the Body of Christ. You have a right to your opinions though, just don't force them on us. The passage i quoted don't say to do ALL the law. This is mischief at work. Please show me/us where this passage was debunked(whatever that means) in my eyes?
There is fraud and abuse everywhere and in every Christian doctrine as it were. We don't throw away the baby with the bathing water. We on this forum try as much as possible to SHOW THE BASIS for tithing. On the other hand, antitithers eternally try to mischievously tie us to all abuses and a force to tithe. Manipulation is wrong, whether to tithe or not to tithe. I give my tithes freewill, remember that.

Image123:

Beautiful and straight put. Lengthy posts please wait for now. @Candour etc

You know you're my friend .....your posts are the only ones that now interest me on this thread after all I've done here in time past

Candour:
According to image:

Tithe is a form of giving and if you are not against giving, you would not be against tithing.

According to Oyakhilome's devotional:

Actually, you pay your tithe; [size=14pt]you don’t give it[/size], as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift.

i like the colours.

Image123:


i like the colours.

I half hoped you'll do

vooks:
There is nothing like liberty to obey a command. That's a contradiction. You are under no liberty to ignore commands
Paying an externally determined fraction is not GIVING. That's why you pay taxes. One asalimpo called tithes taxes.
We are trying as much as possible to liberate Gentiles from the legalistic yoke of tithing imposed on them. In the first century, they contended with circumcision. Today it is tithing. Note, if a Gentile of their own volition opted to undergo circumcision nobody would prevent them. The error was the Jews made it mandatory. Holy Spirit called it a burden. We see them every time. Some are bound by the Sabbath commandment. Others won't shake your hands. They are 'happily' following Moses.

Christ has liberated us from the Law and only requires of us that we purpose in our hearts what to give and this without compulsion. The same Spirit of Christ who convicts you of sin and righteous life is to guide us on what to give. Tithing brigade are terribly scared that the Spirit would NEVER convince anybody to give, so they create commandments with terrible penalties and utopia to prompt giving.

Now,
Matthew 23:23 (KJV) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone

Which part of this scripture tells you to tithe? Please walk me through it

Try to stay focused on me and you, or at least the Bible you and i. It is not a must for you to tithe, this is not the first time i am saying that. If you have a problem with that view, find someone else to discuss the tithes with, not me. i have never been under bondage or needed liberty from giving a token 10%. Jesus gave me all the liberty i needed and that settled it for me, no addition. We have purposed in our hearts to tithe. Wash your face and check the passage i quoted again. Pride is a major issue with many of you.

Swimming and drowning in ambiguity and vagueness.
Is tithing a command?

Image123:


Try to stay focused on me and you, or at least the Bible you and i. It is not a must for you to tithe, this is not the first time i am saying that. If you have a problem with that view, find someone else to discuss the tithes with, not me. i have never been under bondage or needed liberty from giving a token 10%. Jesus gave me all the liberty i needed and that settled it for me, no addition. We have purposed in our hearts to tithe. Wash your face and check the passage i quoted again. Pride is a major issue with many of you.

vooks:
Swimming and drowning in ambiguity and vagueness.
Is tithing a command?

Is prayer a command? Was Abraham commanded to tithe?

Prayer is a command.
He was not commanded to tithe.

Image123:


Is prayer a command? Was Abraham commanded to tithe?

vooks:
Prayer is a command.
He was not commanded to tithe.

How did he tithe then if tithing is a command?

Image123:


How did he tithe then if tithing is a command?

He tithed based on the customs of his people. Tithing was a very common pagan practise amongst the ancient mesopotamians and egyptians.

chillykelly86:




It is either you didn't understand the question or you avoided the substance of the question.

For the sake of clarity, is this the Word of God, "Tithe is given to God through the church, His body."?

If you are asking for where the bolded sentence is written in the Bible you will not find it just as you will not find words like "trinity", "rapture" or "grandfather" in the authorised version of the Bible but the concept is clearly there.

Image123:


Is prayer a command? Was Abraham commanded to tithe?

Good question.

OLAADEGBU:


If you are asking for where the bolded sentence is written in the Bible you will not find it just as you will not find words like "trinity", "rapture" or "grandfather" in the authorised version of the Bible but the concept is clearly there.

Please, where is the "concept" of tithing "through the church" to God. I don't mind to learn where that is.

vooks:


Prayer is a command.
He was not commanded to tithe.

Are you under the law to pray?

FortresOfChrist:


Please, where is the "concept" of tithing "through the church" to God. I don't mind to learn where that is.

Learn from Abraham who tithed to Melchisedec to his children who now tithes to Jesus Christ the High Priest after the order of Melchisedec.

OLAADEGBU:


If you are asking for where the bolded sentence is written in the Bible you will not find it just as you will not find words like "trinity", "rapture" or "grandfather" in the authorised version of the Bible but the concept is clearly there.

Where in the Bible is the concept that tithes are given to the Church? Book? Chapter? Verse?

Where is there the remotest suggestion that tithes were given to the Church?

MarkMiwerds:


Where in the Bible is the concept that tithes are given to the Church? Book? Chapter? Verse?

Where is there the remotest suggestion that tithes were given to the Church?

For the sake of not sounding like a broken record, I'll suggest that you peruse the article on this website:

http://ccihk.com/tithing-in-the-new-covenant

OLAADEGBU:


Learn from Abraham who tithed to Melchisedec to his children who now tithes to Jesus Christ the High Priest after the order of Melchisedec.

that doesn't even suggest tithing to a Church. There was no Church present in Abram's day.

And the very fact that the Church was in existence for forty-one years while tithes still belonged to the Levites disproves your theory.

OLAADEGBU:


Learn from Abraham who tithed to Melchisedec to his children who now tithes to Jesus Christ the High Priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Sir you answered to a question saying tithe can be paid to God through the church. I asked where was that taught in the Holy Bible. You said I learn from Abraham. Sir, did Abraham paid tithe to God THROUGH the church? What church was established in the days of Abraham? If you can throw more light please sir.

MarkMiwerds:


that doesn't even suggest tithing to a Church. There was no Church present in Abram's day.

And the very fact that the Church was in existence for forty-one years while tithes still belonged to the Levites disproves your theory.

It's either you choose not to read or couldn't read the link I posted earlier. I'll give you no excuse by posting it here:

The Two Systems of Tithing in the Bible

There are two tithing systems in the Bible. One is where Israel had to pay tithes to the Levitical priesthood under the Old Covenant. This was commanded of Israel. It belonged to God and therefore they were commanded to give to God what belonged to Him. There were consequences if they did not obey and there were blessings if they did. This system completely passed away with the passing away of the Old Covenant.

The second system of tithing was to Melchizedek the High Priest of God. This tithe was not paid but voluntarily given by Abram to Melchizedek, in Genesis 14 and Hebrews 7, when he realized who Melchizedek was – Jesus Christ! This is a New Covenant kind of tithing where we are blessed by God before we give and it’s a response, not a command, to seeing the greatness of Jesus.

The Bible says that this Melchizedek was:

“king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

(Heb 7:2,3 NKJV)

This has to be Christ or there is a fourth person in the Godhead! In Hebrews 7: 14-17 Christ is called a “priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek!”

So Abraham, the father of our faith who had the Gospel preached to him in advance, and whose righteousness was credited to him through faith and not works - just like us New Covenant believers according to Galatians 3 - gave a tithe of all to Jesus! Then in Hebrews 7:9 even Levi who came under the Law paid the tithe to whom it truly belongs (Christ) through the body of Abraham showing that the tithe transcends the Old Covenant and that the tithe has, is and always will belong to Christ!

The Bible also says that before Abram gave the tithe Melchizedek blessed Abram and gave him bread and wine! This is very New Covenant! We are blessed before we give by the One who gives His body and blood for our salvation. The other time we see this happening is on the night before Christ’s crucifiction where he took bread and wine and served it to his deciples signifying the New Covenant!

Now you can choose to not believe it if you want, but I believe that Christ is the one who our tithe belongs to. Abram knew this. Jacob who was the grandson of Abraham knew this where he promised to give a tithe of all the Lord gave him, after wrestling with the Lord all night. In other words he encountered the Lord and instinctively wanted to tithe.

Abraham and Jacob were not under the Old Covenant law when they gave tithes to the Lord. They were under faith! They were giving freely from their hearts under no compulsion except that they had encountered the living God and were compelled from within to give what they instinctively knew belonged to Him – the tithe!

The tithe has never stopped belonging to God! Even under the Old Covenant Israel was commanded to pay it because it belong to God. Jesus even said, “Give to man what belongs to man and give to God what belongs to God!”

Now of course under the New Covenant we don’t pay tithes since we are not under an Old Covenant system of tithing and none of the Old Covenant blessings or curses apply to us regarding tithing. Not tithing won’t shut up the heavens and tithing won’t open the heavens over us. That’s the Old Covenant system. But the fact is the tithe always has belonged to God and nowhere in the New Covenant does it say that it no longer belongs to God! It’s very hard to build a strong doctrine to say that the tithe no longer belongs to God. It’s his! It always has been his and it still is his, just like the glory, honor, majesty and worship belong to Him! If you don’t give the tithe he won’t curse you but the fact is you will be keeping something that is not yours but belongs to God. I have no problem being faithful and honoring God with my tithe. For me it’s an act of worship.

http://ccihk.com/tithing-in-the-new-covenant

FortresOfChrist:


Sir you answered to a question saying tithe can be paid to God through the church. I asked where was that taught in the Holy Bible. You said I learn from Abraham. Sir, did Abraham paid tithe to God THROUGH the church? What church was established in the days of Abraham? If you can throw more light please sir.

The article I posted above will do justice to your questions.

Luke 18:1 (ESV)
1 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart

Mark 14:38 (ESV)
38 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation.

1 Thes 5:17 (ESV)
17 pray without ceasing,

---

these are not commands, Holy Spirit was kidding, the funniest person of the Godhead

OLAADEGBU:


Are you under the law to pray?

OLAADEGBU:


It's either you choose not to read or couldn't read the link I posted earlier. I'll give you no excuse by posting it here:

the article is flawed.

1. The Bible does not say Melchizedek was the High Priest of God... only that he was a Priest.
2. Melchizedek was not Jesus Christ. Hebrews 7 says he was "made like unto the Son of God", not that he was the Son of God. "Like unto" does not mean "is".
3. The Bible does not say that Abram gave tithes when he realized Melchizedek was Jesus Christ. The author has imposed untruths upon the actual account in an attemp to deceive the readers.
4. No, there is no indication that Melchizedek was a Fourth part of the Trinity. Without father, mother, beginning or end of days simply alludes to the fact that we have no genealogical records to tell when he was born or died or who his parents actually were.

the Early Church was not taught to tithe in any of the epistles. God did not see it as necessary.

He picked the amount,the time and the place to do it. Nobody asked him to. Neither did nobody aks Jacob to. In fact, that he conditionally offered to tithe tells you tithing was not a practice.

Next question

Image123:


How did he tithe then if tithing is a command?

Just because Melchizedek's name meant "king of righteousness" does not necessitate him being the Lord Jesus Christ. For instance, in Joshua 10, we find a character named Adonizedek, which means "lord of righteousness". Adonizedek was a king in Jerusalem. hmmm, ... "city of peace" at the time that Joshua and Gideon entered and conquered Canaan.

Adonizedek and four other kings fought against Joshua and Gideon. The five kings were shut up in a cave, later brought out of the cave and hanged.

The point being, that names did not necessarily describe who the person was. Just because Melchizedek's name means king of righteousness does not mean he was a righteous king. Yes, he was a Priest of the Most High God. But so were Aaron's sons. And we all know what happened to two of his sons Abihu and Nadab.

OLAADEGBU:


The article I posted above will do justice to your questions.

Okay sir I will read through and get back to you sir. Thanks

Matthew 23:23 (KJV) Woe unto you, scribes and Phariseesyoy, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone

@image123

From the words of Christ in the passage above:-
1. Do you believe tithe is a "matter of the law"?
2. Do you believe Christians are not bound by the law?

This is pretty straight-forward. I am sure some people will actually have stoned adulterous women, arguing that they have "defiled the temple of the Holy Spirit" if not for the specific encounter between Jesus and one such woman.

MarkMiwerds:
the article is flawed.

1. The Bible does not say Melchizedek was the High Priest of God... only that he was a Priest.
2. Melchizedek was not Jesus Christ. Hebrews 7 says he was "made like unto the Son of God", not that he was the Son of God. "Like unto" does not mean "is".
3. The Bible does not say that Abram gave tithes when he realized Melchizedek was Jesus Christ. The author has imposed untruths upon the actual account in an attemp to deceive the readers.
4. No, there is no indication that Melchizedek was a Fourth part of the Trinity. Without father, mother, beginning or end of days simply alludes to the fact that we have no genealogical records to tell when he was born or died or who his parents actually were.

the Early Church was not taught to tithe in any of the epistles. God did not see it as necessary.

Your objection #1 bolded above shows how you just contradicted yourself. You say that the Bible does not say Melchisedec was the High Priest of God and moments later your post below says that he is. Make up your mind, young man!

MarkMiwerds:


Just because Melchizedek's name meant "king of righteousness" does not necessitate him being the Lord Jesus Christ. For instance, in Joshua 10, we find a character named Adonizedek, which means "lord of righteousness". Adonizedek was a king in Jerusalem. hmmm, ... "city of peace" at the time that Joshua and Gideon entered and conquered Canaan.

Adonizedek and four other kings fought against Joshua and Gideon. The five kings were shut up in a cave, later brought out of the cave and hanged.

The point being, that names did not necessarily describe who the person was. Just because Melchizedek's name means king of righteousness does not mean he was a righteous king. Yes, he was a Priest of the Most High God. But so were Aaron's sons. And we all know what happened to two of his sons Abihu and Nadab.

Confusion.com

OLAADEGBU:


Your objection #1 bolded above shows how you just contradicted yourself. You say that the Bible does not say Melchisedec was the High Priest of God and moments later your post below says that he is. Make up your mind, young man!



Confusion.com

olaadegbu, read my post slowly. I did not say Melchizedek was High Priest. I said he was a Priest. You bring the confusion on yourself. I have not said anything confusing.

Tithers and Tithe collectors lying since AD 30 !


"But the cowardly,...... and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." - Revelation 21:8

MarkMiwerds:
olaadegbu, read my post slowly. I did not say Melchizedek was High Priest. I said he was a Priest. You bring the confusion on yourself. I have not said anything confusing.

You did. Jesus is the High priest after the "order of Melchizedek" just like we have high priest after the "Aaronic order" in the OT. To allude Melchizedek was a priest is dishonest and does not stand the authenticity of scripture. The priesthood is not dead, it lives forever.

The Bible only identifies Melchizedek as a Priest... not as a High Priest.

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the Priest of the Most High God.

"After the order of" does not mean Melchizedek was a High Priest.

There was an order of Priests that Melchizedek was in. Jesus was the High Priest of that Order.