MacDaddy01:
There are six english translations from the most popular translations of the Quran at Quran.com. All of them say best/strike your wives in Surah 4;34.
How do you explain that? Logicboy wrote it there? The West is having a propaganda?
No, your own muslim scholars translated it so. Ask them.
Wife beating is in the Quran and Hadith. Read it. Even the Ahmadiya guys accept wife beating. I can show you the video on youtube in a secular debate.

I accept the translation that says separate because the Prophet admonished men to not beat their wives and he wouldn't have preached doctrine that was contrary to what the Qur'an says. I have a brain and I can reason by myself, the fact that Ahmadiyyas accept wife beating is not reason enough for me to also accept it. I don't choose what to accept based on what other people think.

fellis:

I accept the translation that says separate because the Prophet admonished men to not beat their wives and he wouldn't have preached doctrine that was contrary to what the Qur'an says. I have a brain and I can reason by myself, the fact that Ahmadiyyas accept wife beating is not reason enough for me to also accept it. I don't choose what to accept based on what other people think.

You accept which translation? Put forward the name of the author/version of such english translations of the Quran. I dare you. Let's see how recently it was written.


Dont run away.

MacDaddy01:

You accept which translation? Put forward the name of the author/version of such english translations of the Quran. I dare you. Let's see how recently it was written.

The date when the translation was written does not make a single difference to me. From my study of the Qur'an and Hadith, I know that the prophet would not preach anything that goes against what Allah ordained and the prophet told Muslim men to not beat their wives in the Hadith I quoted before so I don't believe there is room for wife beating in Islam.

Dont run away.

lol, I wasn't planning to.

MacDaddy01:

You accept which translation? Put forward the name of the author/version of such english translations of the Quran. I dare you. Let's see how recently it was written.


Dont run away.

Aside from that translation,Ayatollah Misbah Yazdi is also of the view that the word "wa-adribuhunna" means "to separate" and not "to strike/beat".this is well grounded in the hadith where the Prophet (s) said "strike them with hunger and na-kedness".that is the intent of "separation".

But if I may ask,what is wrong with an upright man hitting a wife that is bringing shame to the house after warning her and even separating bed from her? What would you do? What is the better alternative? Divorce? Or is it because the whiteman sees nothing wrong with flirting/adultery? In Islam adultery can be punishable with flogging/death.oyinbo don't have law against adultery.

fellis:
The date when the translation was written does not make a single difference to me. From my study of the Qur'an and Hadith, I know that the prophet would not preach anything that goes against what Allah ordained and the prophet told Muslim men to not beat their wives in the Hadith I quoted before so I don't believe there is room for wife beating in Islam.


lol, I wasn't planning to.

I dislike dishonesty.

I back things up with the Quran and Hadith when I make claims. I have pointed to six translations and the six most popular translations numerous times here on Nairaland. They all say beat/strike/hit.


You should put forward the Quran that you have claimed to have read that says "separate". There have been English speaking muslims since the early 20th century (1900s)

I want to know which Quran you used to get your translation. This is because if you put a late 20th or 21st century translation, it would show that either

a) Muslims changed the meanning of that verse dubiously after Western criticism

or

b) All English muslims were deluded for over a century with a false narration of the verse 4;34.



A honest man has nothing to fear. I have researched and verified my claims about the Quran. Time to show yours

MacDaddy01:
I want to know which Quran you used to get your translation. This is because if you put a late 20th or 21st century translation, it would show that either

a) Muslims changed the meanning of that verse dubiously after Western criticism

or

b) All English muslims were deluded for over a century with a false narration of the verse 4;34.
A honest man has nothing to fear. I have researched and verified my claims about the Quran. Time to show yours

The word used in the verse was derived from a word in Arabic that was used many times in the Quran to mean hit, travel the earth, set up, to condemn and to give examples. Thus scholars interpret that word differently. Whereas many interpret it to mean "to strike", others hold that the term means "to separate".
Even if the translation is a twenty first century one, it would still be of no consequence because the word used in the verse has alternate meanings.

In the case of your second option i'e that Muslims have been deluded, that is not true, Muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic and read the Qur'an to learn about their religion. Nobody was deceiving anybody because the Arabic Qur'an was always there for people to return back to and confirm what they read in English. Their failing to do so does not mean that they were deceived.

fellis:
The word used in the verse was derived from a word in Arabic that was used many times in the Quran to mean hit, travel the earth, set up, to condemn and to give examples. Thus scholars interpret that word differently. Whereas many interpret it to mean "to strike", others hold that the term means "to separate".
Even if the translation is a twenty first century one, it would still be of no consequence because the word used in the verse has alternate meanings.

In the case of your second option i'e that Muslims have been deluded, that is not true, Muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic and read the Qur'an to learn about their religion. Nobody was deceiving anybody because the Arabic Qur'an was always there for people to return back to and confirm what they read in English. Their failing to do so does not mean that they were deceived.

Blah blah blah.

Put your Quran forward. Simple request.

fellis:
The word used in the verse was derived from a word in Arabic that was used many times in the Quran to mean hit, travel the earth, set up, to condemn and to give examples. Thus scholars interpret that word differently. Whereas many interpret it to mean "to strike", others hold that the term means "to separate".
Even if the translation is a twenty first century one, it would still be of no consequence because the word used in the verse has alternate meanings.

In the case of your second option i'e that Muslims have been deluded, that is not true, Muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic and read the Qur'an to learn about their religion. Nobody was deceiving anybody because the Arabic Qur'an was always there for people to return back to and confirm what they read in English. Their failing to do so does not mean that they were deceived.

Wait, what?

You should be careful about the things you say. Do you understand Arabic talkless of classical Arabic? You expect all muslims to learn Arabic?

MacDaddy01:
Blah blah blah.
Put your Quran forward. Simple request.

What is the point in posting it when my research on the verse has shown me that the word has several meanings?
The Qur'anic authors that chose to use 'beat' as the translation had their reasons for choosing 'beat' instead of 'separate'. I choose to accept that the word means 'separate' for the reason I have highlighted above.
There is no need for me to post any translator's name so I wouldn't do it.

fellis:

What is the point in posting it when my research on the verse has shown me that the word has several meanings?
The Qur'anic authors that chose to use 'beat' as the translation had their reasons for choosing 'beat' instead of 'separate'. I choose to accept that the word means 'separate' for the reason I have highlighted above.
There is no need for me to post any translator's name so I wouldn't do it.

lol....it takes less than ten second to put down the translation you use, since you have personally read the Quran.


Seems that taqiuyah is in order

This will be my last response unless you put forawrd your Quran

^I use the Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur'an but while he uses 'strike' as the translation of the word in the verse, I believe it says separate because of what I read about the word having different meanings.
Yusuf Ali knows better why he used that particular translation for the word.

fellis: ^I use the Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur'an but while he uses 'strike' as the translation of the word in the verse, I believe it says separate because of what I read about the word having different meanings.
Yusuf Ali knows better why he used that particular translation for the word.

Zhul-fiqar:


Aside from that translation,Ayatollah Misbah Yazdi is also of the view that the word "wa-adribuhunna" means "to separate" and not "to strike/beat".this is well grounded in the hadith where the Prophet (s) said "strike them with hunger and na-kedness".that is the intent of "separation".

But if I may ask,what is wrong with an upright man hitting a wife that is bringing shame to the house after warning her and even separating bed from her? What would you do? What is the better alternative? Divorce? Or is it because the whiteman sees nothing wrong with flirting/adultery? In Islam adultery can be punishable with flogging/death.oyinbo don't have law against adultery.

logicboi where you @
answer the bolded

justaqad:
logicboi where you @
answer the bolded

You think there is nothing wrong with a man hitting his wife?

justaqad:

logicboi where you @
answer the bolded

The bolded?

Isnt it shameful that a muslim can actaully say that there is a specific time that a man can beat his wife?

So, in short


Lagoshia and Fellis have given a valid reason to leave islam- wife beating.


Justaqad?

fellis:
You think there is nothing wrong with a man hitting his wife?

AND YOU THINK THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH A WIFE DISOBEYING/CONSTANTLY ANNOYING THE HUSBAND?

MacDaddy01:


The bolded?

Isnt it shameful that a muslim can actaully say that there is a specific time that a man can beat his wife?

ISN'T IT SHAMEFUL THAT AN ATHEIST ENCOURAGES INDISCIPLINE IN MATRIMONY?

justaqad:
AND YOU THINK THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH A WIFE DISOBEYING/CONSTANTLY ANNOYING THE HUSBAND?

Where did I make such a comment? You are getting unnecessarily defensive, calm down. It is not proper for a wife to constantly annoy her husband but if she does, I believe there are better ways to correct her than by using physical assault.

fellis:
Where did I make such a comment?

considering the fact you are woman,i am not surprised at most of your posts

fellis:
You are getting unnecessarily defensive, calm down. It is not proper for a wife to constantly annoy her husband but if she does, I believe there are better ways to correct her than by using physical assault.

like i said in my previous post after several admonition, if she persists in being disobedient and disrespectful,then i see no wrong in hitting her.

^and you shouldn't mind been hit back by her.

justaqad:

ISN'T IT SHAMEFUL THAT AN ATHEIST ENCOURAGES INDISCIPLINE IN MATRIMONY?

Wow! Where did you get that from?

How do I encourage indiscipline in matrimony? Just because I wouldnt beat my wife? So an adult woman needs discipline in your version of islam? lolol

If I have problems with my wife, the solution is simple- I talk to her and if she doesnt listen, I talk to her family and if there is no progress, I stay away for some days.


Why should I beat a woman like a child?

justaqad:
considering the fact you are woman,i am not surprised at most of your posts

like i said in my previous post after several admonition, if she persists in being disobedient and disrespectful,then i see no wrong in hitting her.

Lol....unfortunately for people like you, that is assault in many developed countries. You do not settle disagreements with violence.

Its a good thing that some women take karate classes and keep guns. When the woman shoots you or hits you back, she wont go to jail because it would be seen as self defense.

justaqad:

AND YOU THINK THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH A WIFE DISOBEYING/CONSTANTLY ANNOYING THE HUSBAND?

no one is saying that. What rational people are saying is that there are better ways to solve the issue. Communication or separation.


What about a dishonest and disobedient husband? The wife should beat him too?

You people should know better than allow this hyperactive OP to wind you up. The rules to be observed for the so-called beating make it redundant.

zayhal: ^and you shouldn't mind been hit back by her.

Allah made man an Alpha for a reason... (a mild slap would do d magic)

MacDaddy01:


Wow! Where did you get that from?


How do I encourage indiscipline in matrimony? Just because I wouldnt beat my wife? So an adult woman needs discipline in your version of islam? lolol

If I have problems with my wife, the solution is simple- I talk to her and if she doesnt listen, I talk to her family and if there is no progress, I stay away for some days.

and if there is no progress?


Why should I beat a woman like a child?[/quote]
now i never said that... i wouldn't beat up my wife,but i wont hesitate to slap her cheek/hand/leg if the need be.
but punch,or kick her no way.

MacDaddy01:

Lol....unfortunately for people like you, that is [b]assault [/b]in many developed countries. You do not settle disagreements with violence.

Its a good thing that some women take karate classes and keep guns. When the woman shoots you or hits you back, she wont go to jail because it would be seen as self defense.

so after many failed attempts to bring her to her senses i hit her,its considered Assault abi?
unfortunately for people like you.this is Discipline.
why would a man want to hit the wife if she is not being bad?huh

MacDaddy01:
I dislike dishonesty.

No you don't. You simply hate muslims. Last Friday, you wrote

MacDaddy01: Can any honest muslim tell me why this deserves front page? The last time I checked anyone can quote a holy book and reflect on the miraculous signs of his god- Jews, christians, pagans, hindus etc

Christian posts have been making front page daily. Have you complained?
Personally I want all (except the fa.g.gots) to have free access to the fp. But an atheist permanently encamped on this section, assuming various aliases and impersonating muslims, complaining about Islamic post on the fp for an obviously untrue reason claiming he dislikes dishonesty is over the top

BTW your quest for "honest", "good" etc muslims is strange. Who is the judge?

Afterall,

Logicboy03:
The funny thing is that I agree with you. I dont mind christian threads, expecially if they make sense. For instance; a debate on souls or a catholic and protestant trying to sort out differences.
However, the islamic threads that make front page are gaddem stoopid! Jesus Christ! Islamic threads make the front oage too easy

MacDaddy01:


no one is saying that. What rational people are saying is that there are better ways to solve the issue. Communication or separation.

this is the part women love the most.after separation and it doesn't work nko? haven't you heard or read the story of an Indian man that refused coming down a tree he willfully climbed cos he caught his wife with another on their matrimonial bed.guess what
the said wife is adamant.she aint apologizing.

MacDaddy01:
What about a dishonest and disobedient husband? The wife should beat him too?

if she has the strength she can go ahead.

justaqad:

Allah made man an Alpha for a reason... (a mild slap would do d magic)

You might want to rethink that. There is no alpha when a gun is involved or your gbola is being dismembered in your sleep.


However, a slap would even worsen the case. You think she will like you and behave after beating her

MacDaddy01:


You might want to rethink that. There is no alpha when a gun is involved or your gbola is being dismembered in your sleep.

why would she carry a gun cos of a slap she deserved?