Bobbysworld28: Meanwhile if u get new rev concerning d issue pls do not hesitate to share

frosbel2:

Your church has gotten so many doctrines wrong, add this one to the list

frosbel2:

they can't answer, if they fall out of line with their church's position they are in trouble.

alexleo:

FALLING IN LINE WITH YOUR USELESS AND LAME TEACHINGS IS WHAT YOU WANT US TO DO? NONSENSE. YOU ARE JUST DAY DREAMING.

ijawkid:

Ahhh.......

There are scriptures where Jesus explicitly talked about the total destruction of the wicked....Jesus never needed a parable to convey this........

This incident in luke chapter 16 is purely a parable......

And all the questions I've been asking assuming we took it literally have fallen on deaf ears......

What did the rich man do to be sentenced to life in a fiery HELL...??...

Alexleo what??

ijawkid:

Alex why are you exuding so much anger??.....na wa o

Bobbysworld28: Frosbel, u can be insolent o! U mean my gospel is rejected because I do not agree with u? Suppose I am a new convert asking u these fundamental questions, is dt how u would treat me?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Please notice dt within Jesus nt coming to condemn d world is a caveat- u r condemned alreadu for rejecting him. It is all there in d good news of Christ.

Brethren, I think I am officially disappointed in Frosbel

alexleo:

THATS HIS STYLE. ONCE YOU REJECT HIS SATAN INSPIRED DOCTRINE HE BEGINS. HE IS A DISGRACE AND SHAME TO CHRISTIANITY WITH HIS FALSE TEACHING WHICH HE IS USING TO DECEIVE MANY. HOW CAN ONE MAN FEEL THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD BOW TO HIS USELESS AND LAME ONE-MAN BIBLE RESEARCH? I CAN ONLY DO THAT WHEN I DECIDE TO FEAST WITH SATAN, AND OF COURSE I CANT(BY GOD'S GRACE). ANY TEACHING THAT I AM NOT CONVINCED ABOUT, I WONT ACCEPT. THANK YOU FOR THE STEPS YOU HAVE TAKEN IN THIS THREAD. YOU CALLED THEM TO CONVINCE YOU AND UP TILL NOW THEY RECORDED SERIAL FAILURE. AND ON TOP OF IT HE IS MAKING NOISE. THANKS MY BROTHER.

frosbel2:

Thank You, I 'admire' your good example.

alexleo:

OH, AM I?? AND YOUR MASTER, FROSBEL, IS DOING WHAT?

ijawkid:

lol.......settle down and keep discussing,......lets get to the end of this....so that when you wan tell wicked people say them gp burn like the rich man,you go first think twice...

alexleo:

Think twice for what? I dont read the bible with unnecessary sentiment like you people.

mumumugu: Experience is best teacher.try kiling yourself and you wil find out

Bobbysworld28: Thanks mumumugu. U hv outdone urself this time. U really represent dt name. Fits like a glove. Rnt u missing somewhere? NOW SCRAM!

Bobbysworld28: @ijawkid
For the sake of argument, let us agree it is a parable. Does dt mean it didn't happen? Jesus na fiction writer now. If Hell was nt real would Jesus wouldn't hv said there was such a place, would He? Obviously, something like dt HAD occured or had d possibilty of happening. It then presupposes dt ur claim abt wht happens after death according to ur account is faulty

ijawkid:

Lol........but at least tell the people you teach that its a parable....for a start....

alexleo:

CARRY YOUR USELESS DELIVERANCE AND GET OUT OF MY WAY. AS IF I SUPPORT MY CHURCH STAND ON THE ISSUE OF MEDICATION. DELIVER YOURSELF OF THE DECEIT YOU HAVE ENTERED INTO IN YOUR USELESS ONE MAN BIBLE RESEARCH. EACH TIME YOU ARE LOSING IN ARGUMENT YOU START CALLING CHURCHES, AN ATTITUDE OF A DROWNING MAN. GROW UP AND STOP ENGAGING IN THIS SHOW OF SHAME. WHEN YOU SPEAK THE ONE THAT IS TRUE I LL TELL YOU. AS FOR THIS TOPIC, YOU ARE ON A FALSE PATH AND I WONT FOLLOW YOU.

Segeggs: --- claim God will burn billions of people including babies and little ones (there's nothing like age of accountability in the bible) FOREVER for not accepting jesus.
--

alexleo:

why should i say its a parable when its not? your points are not convincing enough for me to accept its a parable. IT IS NOT A PARABLE. I cannot buy a product am not convinced about. Etisalat cannot just jump into the market and tell me to drop my MTN which i ve used for several years without convincing me enough why their product is better than the MTN. I cant drop it by their telling me to drop it rather by their strong conviction. And of course conviction becomes strong when all the objections i raise becomes weakened or totally wiped out not just in your mind but in my own mind too as the buyer. You people are forcing your product on us. Thats the characteristics of fake product marketers.

ijawkid:

the bolded is funny...because right in front of your eyes I have proved that that story was a parable.....

you dey deny am...

no
one is forcing any product on you...we would only continue to do our adverts well like glo until you leave your mtn line....

Luke 16:19-31 (Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom)

Luke 16:19-31 describes Lazarus, the beggar, after he died, as being in “Abraham’s bosom.” Since the Bible clearly says that in death there is no consciousness, this story must be figurative, and it is. In his book, Are The Dead Alive Now? Victor Paul Wierwille points out that in:

...two ancient Greek manuscripts—the Bezae Caulabrigiensis and the Koridethian-Caesarean text—words are included which have been deleted in other translations. Both of these ancient manuscripts begin Luke 16:19 with the words: eipen de kai heteran parabolen, which translated means, “And He said also another parable.” [1]

Edward Fudge states that the basic plot of this parable, “the reversal of earthly fortunes after death, was familiar in popular Palestinian stories of Jesus’ time.” [2]

Of this section, Sir Anthony Buzzard says:

The opening words, “Now there was a certain man...”, remind us of the story of the Prodigal son and the parable of the Unjust Steward, which begin with the same phrase, and caution us that we are dealing with a story with a moral rather than a straight discourse on eschatology. “It is inconceivable,” says F.W. Farrar (Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible, Vol. 2, p. 1038) “to ground the proof of an important theological doctrine on a passage which confessedly abounds in Jewish metaphor.” [3]

Verse 23 is a key to understanding it as a parable, which is a figure of speech and not literal. The verse begins “And in hell [hades=gravedom] he lift up his eyes ....” This makes it clear that it cannot be taken literally. In verse 24, we see that Lazarus has a tongue also. How could a disembodied “soul” have eyes and a tongue? This is more evidence that the story Jesus told was not true to fact.

In context, Jesus had been addressing the Pharisees in parables from the beginning of Chapter Fifteen: the lost sheep, the lost coin, the prodigal son and the unjust steward. Luke 16:14 tells us that the Pharisees, who loved money, heard him and ridiculed him. In verse fifteen, Jesus told them that their values were warped and ungodly. The subsequent parable of the rich man and Lazarus perfectly illustrated for them the difference between what they esteemed and what God esteemed.

Not understanding this as a parable, one might think that Jesus meant to depict an immediate “heaven or hell” kind of afterlife. However, he told this parable to the Pharisees in light of their Talmudic traditions and their belief in immediate reward or punishment after death. It was they who coined the phrase “Abraham’s bosom” as one of several afterlife locations. [4] Jesus did not intend to contradict the entire Old Testament and teach survival after death.

His primary intention was to show that the Pharisees were so evil that even if someone rose from the dead they wouldn’t listen to him. He did so by hypothetically stating that, even if one were to return from the place of the dead (which the Pharisees, having forsaken the Old Testament in favor of their traditions, believed in), those who refused to believe Moses and the prophets still would not believe (v. 31). How prophetic, as was evidenced by his own resurrection from the dead, which many of them did not believe.

Of this account, The New Bible Dictionary says the following:

Probably the story of Dives [according to tradition, the rich man’s name] and Lazarus (Luke 16:1-9) is a parable which makes use of current Jewish thinking and is not intended to teach anything about the state of the dead. [5]

There is even more biblical evidence that this record is a parable. Remember that Revelation 21:4 states that, after all the judgments, there will be no more sorrow, crying or pain. How could saved believers possibly enjoy the riches of eternity if they were constantly being interrupted by burning people shouting up at them for water?


Luke 23:39-43 (Paradise today)

Luke 23:42 and 43 is often used to teach that the penitent malefactor who believed in Jesus immediately went to “heaven” when he died (even though the verse in question reads “paradise”). However, the phrase in verse 43, “I tell you the truth today,” was a common Hebrew idiom used to emphasize the solemnity and importance of an occasion or moment (compare Deut. 4:26, 39, 40; 5:1; 6:6; 7:11, Josh. 23:14). Recognizing this idiom and properly punctuating the verse with the comma after the word “today,” we see that Jesus’ meaning is clearly future, to be fulfilled when he comes again and establishes his kingdom on earth.

Thus the verse should read as follows: “Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise.’”

Also, the word “paradise” is preceded by the article “the” and therefore refers biblically to the place of beauty on earth described in Genesis 2, lost in Genesis 3, that will be restored by the Lord Jesus Christ when he returns to earth (see Rev. 22:1-3). (For more information on “paradise,” see the note on Ecclesiastes 2:5, page 908; and Appendix 173 in The Companion Bible, edited by E.W. Bullinger.)

Not only did the penitent malefactor not go to “paradise” that day, neither did Jesus Christ. As stated earlier, he died and spent the next three days and three nights in the grave

Source

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we [living Christians] shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible [dead Christians] must put on incorruption, and this mortal [living Christians] must put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then [and only then] shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Note that death is not swallowed up in victory until Christ comes. If Old Testament believers or Christians went immediately to heaven when they died, then death, not resurrection, would be the victory.


Schoenheit, John W.; Graeser, Mark H.; Lynn, John A. (2010-05-24). Is There Death After Life? (Kindle Locations 1571-1572). Spirit & Truth Fellowship International. Kindle Edition.

Bobbysworld28: @frosbel
Nw u come. I cor 15 prompted this discourse. We couldn't go beyond first gear dt was y I never introduced this part. I will study wht u wrote & get back 2 u but on first glance I must say it doesn't quite satisfy my thirst but it is step in d right direction

Bobbysworld28: @msdarkskin
Sorry I cannot accept dt Jesus' words be taken with a pinch of salt. We will talk abt d validity or nt of d bible in anoda thread. D ground rules of this thread is dt we are believers in d written word & seek to establish truths therein

k2039: [size=13pt]Simple, believe anyone you want to believe.[/size]