frosbel:


Bro, getting angry when someone has a different point of view from you or your church is dangerous , what next ?

I am yet to see you disprove any of the points raised.

You cannot base a very important doctrine on ONE scripture, it is poorly dividing the word of truth.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY USING ONE SCRIPTURE? WHAT OF THE OTHER SCRIPTURES THAT HAVE BEEN USED IN OTHER THREADS OVER THIS SAME ISSUE? HAS YOUR OWN SUBMISSIONS BEEN CONVINCING ENOUGH TO ME? NO.

alexleo:

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY USING ONE SCRIPTURE? WHAT OF THE OTHER SCRIPTURES THAT HAVE BEEN USED IN OTHER THREADS OVER THIS SAME ISSUE? HAS YOUR OWN SUBMISSIONS BEEN CONVINCING ENOUGH TO ME? NO.

You are bound by church tradition, may God open your eyes so that you will use your independent thought process and perform a proper dividing of the word of God , not according to Apostolic faith but according to the Bible.

frosbel:

Bidam , which bible do you read ? When was the last time you conducted a detailed in-depth study of the bible.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul - Genesis 2:7

It says God breathed the 'breath of life ' into MAN, it did not say God formed a spirit, no, God formed a body from dust and put the breath of life into MAN , it was ONLY after this that MAN became a living soul not before.

A Soul is living and a combination of body and the breath of life or spirit.

spirit can either be a person such as GOD and angels or wind, breath , such as the life of all living creation etc. Get out your Lexicon and check it up.

Can you help us answer these questions :

1. How can a spirit have a bosom ?
2. If all spirits go up after death, then that includes the of the wicked as well as the good, how do you reconcile this to your rich man and Lazarus doctrine.

We are all made up of three parts: spirit, soul and body. The spirit of man, also called the spirit of life or the breath of life, is mentioned in the scriptures more than any other spirit. When Adam was created, he had the spirit of life breathed into his body and he became a living soul (Genesis 2:7); he became spirit, soul and a breathing body; three parts all wrapped up in one package. God gives breath and spirit to all the people on the earth (Isaiah 42:5). Without the spirit of man, our bodies are lifeless (James 2:26).

It is the spirit that is tormented in hades. The dead person feels pain, heat, anguish, thirst, discomfort; they
can talk, reason and pray; they can still love their families and be concerned for them (Luke 16:23 to 31).

frosbel: @ Bidam and Alexeo :

Matthew 27:53 is a red herring , but let us perform a proper bible exegesis. May God give us more wisdom.

It is said that , though not confirmed , this verse was added to fulfill a certain agenda of a specific group who held onto a particular point of view. This is in no way confirmed though.


Anyway lets share bread


"50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”
- Matthew 27:50 - 53



Question : When did this even happen
Answer : When Jesus gave up his spirit.

So at this time, Jesus was still dead bodily so to speak , and therefore the resurrection had not occurred. But hold on a minute, Jesus is the firstborn from dead, meaning the first man who was raised from the dead, and if the resurrection had not yet occurred , then there is no way those people resurrected in the real sense of the word.


Question : What happens when their is an earthquake ?
Answer : displacement of the earth's surface which often includes the churning out of coffins or bodies out of their graves/tombs.

My 2 cents here is that the appearance of those supposedly 'resurrected saints ' might suggest an appearance of dead bodies due to the earthquake or some spiritual vision manifesting, I truly cannot tell , but one thing that I am 100% sure of , is that this could never ever be speaking of an actual resurrection , because Jesus had not yet risen from the dead.

Bear in mind that Jesus is the first born from the dead, to suggest therefore that he is not the first born from the dead and that there were others who rose from the dead before him is very close to a serious error and cannot be used this to support an erroneous doctrine.

And even if these people rose from dead for argument sake, where did they go to ? They could not have gone to heaven for Jesus said :

"No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man." - John 3:13


So where did they go to ? Did they wait till Jesus resurrected ? Did they go back to their graves ?


Brethren, let us rightly divide the word of truth and throw away emotionalism and tradition.


No MAN , Not ONE MAN rose from the dead before JESUS
No MAN , Not ONE MAN has ascended into the heavens except Jesus


Finally, I want an honest answer from you brothers. If all the apostles are now with Jesus in heaven , what did Jesus mean by this statement :

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." - John 14:3

Q1. Has Jesus returned to take them ?

Q2. If yes, when ?


Thank You.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus clearly shows that after physical death they were very much aware of their circumstances and what was going on around them. The Apostle Paul stated that for the believer “to live is Christ, and to die is gain” (see Phil. 1:21-23), indicating that this is in fact the case. That he had “a desire to depart (this life)” to be with the Lord tells us that he expected to consciously experience something “far better” than can be found in this life. This means that at the time of physical death believers will “gain” something. As precious as the believer’s life “in Christ” is in the here and now, it will be greatly enhanced when he leaves it to enter into the presence of the Lord. Paul’s statement that “to live is Christ” speaks of a purposeful life lived in service to and for the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bidam: We are all made up of three parts: spirit, soul and body. The spirit of man, also called the spirit of life or the breath of life, is mentioned in the scriptures more than any other spirit. When Adam was created, he had the spirit of life breathed into his body and he became a living soul (Genesis 2:7); he became spirit, soul and a breathing body; three parts all wrapped up in one package. God gives breath and spirit to all the people on the earth (Isaiah 42:5). Without the spirit of man, our bodies are lifeless (James 2:26).

It is the spirit that is tormented in hades. The dead person feels pain, heat, anguish, thirst, discomfort; they
can talk, reason and pray; they can still love their families and be concerned for them (Luke 16:23 to 31).

I hope and adam and eve are facing the story you just wrote up there??...........

Bidam your exposition is just so false.......

Does not even agree with the genesis account........

Smh!!!!!!!.......

And bidam before I forget the spirit is the breath of life..............

@ijawkid
For the sake of argument, let us agree it is a parable. Does dt mean it didn't happen? Jesus na fiction writer now. If Hell was nt real would Jesus wouldn't hv said there was such a place, would He? Obviously, something like dt HAD occured or had d possibilty of happening. It then presupposes dt ur claim abt wht happens after death according to ur account is faulty

frosbel:

You are bound by church tradition, may God open your eyes so that you will use your independent thought process and perform a proper dividing of the word of God , not according to Apostolic faith but according to the Bible.

If believing the bible truth is what makes me bound by my church traditions, then so be it. I cannot throw the teachings i receive from my church away in the name of being independent. In my church and in some churches we have what we call bible review classes before the actual teaching of any topic is brought to the public. In that class, everybody contributes to the lesson and points are looked into critically. THAT ARRANGEMENT IS STILL FAR BETTER THAN YOUR ONE MAN STUDY THING. Yet there are some issues i disagree with them. YOU ARE ALSO GUILTY OF WHAT YOU ARE ACCUSING ME, YOU WANT TO CAGE ME WITH YOUR FALSE TEACHING? I REFUSE SIR. YOU WANT US TO BELIEVE YOUR ONE MAN STUDY RESULT AND DROP THE ONE THAT OTHER PEOPLE MADE INPUT? NO SIR. If you write anything and am convinced about it then i ll agree. EVEN IF EVERYBODY AGREES WITH YOU ON THIS ISSUE, I WILL NOT. EXCEPT AM CONVINCED.

[quote author=Bidam]We are all made up of three parts: spirit, soul and body. The spirit of man, also called the spirit of life or the breath of life, is mentioned in the scriptures more than any other spirit. When Adam was created, he had the spirit of life breathed into his body and he became a living soul (Genesis 2:7); he became spirit, soul and a breathing body; three parts all wrapped up in one package. God gives breath and spirit to all the people on the earth (Isaiah 42:5). Without the spirit of man, our bodies are lifeless (James 2:26).

Wow, you have a very distorted view of scripture , I fear for those you preach to.

Gen 2:7 said God breathed the breath of life into MAN , it did not say spirit ?

God formed MAN from the dust and gave him life but this life is not a person, it is a gift from God. When God takes away this gift we return to dust , no ?

It is the spirit that is tormented in hades.

Mate, you are now either lying or to proud to confess that you have held a PAGAN concept as truth. Solomon under inspiration stated that the spirit, which really is the gift of life , returns back to GOD, and apostle Bidam disputes Solomon by saying that the spirit goes to hell to be tormented, lol. Your position is getting worse by the minute.

It is the spirit that is tormented in hades. The dead person feels pain, heat, anguish, thirst, discomfort; they
can talk, reason and pray; they can still love their families and be concerned for them (Luke 16:23 to 31).

ah, back to the only scripture that supports your heresy , Lazarus and the rich man .

But how can a spirit have a hand, tongue etc which are physically attributes ?

And where does the soul go to, if the spirit is tormented ?

ijawkid:

I hope and adam and eve are facing the story you just wrote up there??...........

Bidam your exposition is just so false.......

Does not even agree with the genesis account........

Smh!!!!!!!.......

Bidam is terribly mired in error all over the place from tithes to hell and many other doctrines. He needs humility and prayer.

alexleo:

If believing the bible truth is what makes me bound by my church traditions, then so be it. I cannot throw the teachings i receive from my church away in the name of being independent. In my church and in some churches we have what we call bible review classes before the actual teaching of any topic is brought to the public. In that class, everybody contributes to the lesson and points are looked into critically. THAT ARRANGEMENT IS STILL FAR BETTER THAN YOUR ONE MAN STUDY THING. Yet there are some issues i disagree with them. YOU ARE ALSO GUILTY OF WHAT YOU ARE ACCUSING ME, YOU WANT TO CAGE ME WITH YOUR FALSE TEACHING? I REFUSE SIR. YOU WANT US TO BELIEVE YOUR ONE MAN STUDY RESULT AND DROP THE ONE THAT OTHER PEOPLE MADE INPUT? NO SIR. If you write anything and am convinced about it then i ll agree. EVEN IF EVERYBODY AGREES WITH YOU ON THIS ISSUE, I WILL NOT. EXCEPT AM CONVINCED.

Apostolic faith teachings are MAN teachings not GOD teachings, if you as a mature person cannot use your brain and think for yourself, letting other people to do the thinking , it is a BIG Shame.

Be a Berean brother :

"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

A 'whole' Apostle Paul's teachings were subject to a thorough scrutiny by these noble believers , talk less of Apostolic faith or Deeperlife., why should I or we not challenge whether what they say is true or false.

SMH.

Bobbysworld28: @ijawkid
For the sake of argument, let us agree it is a parable. Does dt mean it didn't happen? Jesus na fiction writer now. If Hell was nt real would Jesus wouldn't hv said there was such a place, would He? Obviously, something like dt HAD occured or had d possibilty of happening. It then presupposes dt ur claim abt wht happens after death according to ur account is faulty

My dear, leave this people they are just making noise and claiming they know the scripture more than others(especially ijawkid). If you talk about the Holy Spirit ijawkid will ask you whats his name. Talk about the story of lazarus and the rich man he will ask you whats the name of the rich man. Do i need any other thing to confirm that this is the fruits of a false teacher. To them Jesus is a comedian who just talk anyhow and he may have probably been drunk the day he talked about the story of lazarus and the rich man? GOD IS EXPOSING THESE PEOPLE TO SHAME.

If Apostolic faith are wrong on denying medicine to their children or members, calling their pastors reverend , preaching the false doctrine of tithe, I am sure they must be wrong on many other doctrines.

It is sad to see mature and able brethren turn into religious fanatics by suspending their brains and follow following other MEN.

frosbel:

Apostolic faith teachings are MAN teachings not GOD teachings, if you as a mature person cannot use your brain and think for yourself, letting other people to do the thinking , it is a BIG Shame.

Be a Berean brother :

"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

A 'whole' Apostle Paul's teachings were subject to a thorough scrutiny by these noble believers , talk less of Apostolic faith or Deeperlife., why should I or we not challenge whether what they say is true or false.

SMH.

AND YOUR TEACHINGS ARE SATAN TEACHINGS. THE MORE REASON I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU. YOU WANT ME TO SCRUTINIZE APOSTOLIC FAITH TEACHING AND SWALLOW YOUR OWN? UNREASONABLE TALK. I CANNOT TAKE THIS TEACHING FROM YOU FROSBEL, ITS SATANIC. Would you like to hit your head on the wall for that? GO AHEAD. If disagreeing with you and agreeing with Apostolic Faith is a problem to you thats your business. I couldnt be bothered.

alexleo:

AND YOUR TEACHINGS ARE SATAN TEACHINGS. THE MORE REASON I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU. YOU WANT ME TO SCRUTINIZE APOSTOLIC FAITH TEACHING AND SWALLOW YOUR OWN? UNREASONABLE TALK. I CANNOT TAKE THIS TEACHING FROM YOU FROSBEL, ITS SATANIC. Would you like to hit your head on the wall for that? GO AHEAD. If disagreeing with you and agreeing with Apostolic Faith is a problem to you thats your business. I couldnt be bothered.

If Apostolic faith were wrong on denying medicine to their children or members, calling their pastors reverend , preaching the false doctrine of tithe, I am sure they must be wrong on many other doctrines.

It is sad to see mature and able brethren turn into religious fanatics by suspending their brains and follow following other MEN.

frosbel: If Apostolic faith are wrong on denying medicine to their children or members, calling their pastors reverend , preaching the false doctrine of tithe, I am sure they must be wrong on many other doctrines.

It is sad to see mature and able brethren turn into religious fanatics by suspending their brains and follow following other MEN.

STOP MAKING NOISE YOU ARE A SHAME TO CHRISTIANITY BY YOUR SENSELESS TWISTING OF THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID OF HELL. NONSENSE. FIRST YOU ACCUSED US OF BEING BRAIN WASHED BY CATHOLICS, NEXT YOU SAID ITS A PAGAN TEACHING, NOW YOU BROUGHT IN APOSTOLIC FAITH. WHY ARE YOU RUNNING LIKE A DESPERATE MAN SEEKING FOR WHAT YOU WILL USE TO ACCUSE US? AND THIS HAS BEEN YOUR STYLE EACH TIME YOU THINK YOU ARE LOSING IN ANY ISSUE. BE REASONABLE MY FRIEND AND STOP THE NONSENSE.

alexleo:

STOP MAKING NOISE YOU ARE A SHAME TO CHRISTIANITY BY YOUR SENSELESS TWISTING OF THE SCRIPTURES BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID OF HELL. NONSENSE. FIRST YOU ACCUSED US OF BEING BRAIN WASHED BY CATHOLICS, NEXT YOU SAID ITS A PAGAN TEACHING, NOW YOU BROUGHT IN APOSTOLIC FAITH. WHY ARE YOU RUNNING LIKE A DESPERATE MAN SEEKING FOR WHAT YOU WILL USE TO ACCUSE US? AND THIS HAS BEEN YOUR STYLE EACH TIME YOU THINK YOU ARE LOSING IN ANY ISSUE. BE REASONABLE MY FRIEND STOP THE NONSENSE.

I am not afraid of Hell dear brother, I am trying to deliver you from religious fanaticism , I was once a fanatic, believing everything I was told like a dumb sheep and swallowing all the church doctrines hook line and sinker. I eventually got burnt and almost lost my life in your church , this prompted me to start a thorough analysis of all my beliefs held in the light of scripture.

Religious fanaticism is dangerous !!

No insults brethren. No denomination insults. Is this hw we correct ppl? Pls let ur coversation be seasoned with salt

I will continue 2 ask questions & if u hv an answer for me pls state it. No more denomination ranting. Abeg una o

frosbel:

I am not afraid of Hell dear brother, I am trying to deliver you from religious fanaticism , I was once a fanatic, believing everything I was told like a dumb sheep and swallowing all the church doctrines hook line and sinker. I eventually got burnt , especially because I almost lost my life in your church , and decided to perform a thorough analysis of all my beliefs in the light of scripture.

Religious fanaticism is dangerous !!

CARRY YOUR USELESS DELIVERANCE AND GET OUT OF MY WAY. AS IF I SUPPORT MY CHURCH STAND ON THE ISSUE OF MEDICATION. DELIVER YOURSELF OF THE DECEIT YOU HAVE ENTERED INTO IN YOUR USELESS ONE MAN BIBLE RESEARCH. EACH TIME YOU ARE LOSING IN ARGUMENT YOU START CALLING CHURCHES, AN ATTITUDE OF A DROWNING MAN. GROW UP AND STOP ENGAGING IN THIS SHOW OF SHAME. WHEN YOU SPEAK THE ONE THAT IS TRUE I LL TELL YOU. AS FOR THIS TOPIC, YOU ARE ON A FALSE PATH AND I WONT FOLLOW YOU.

Read the bible people.

alexleo:

YOUNG MAN, I HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO THAN TO WASTE MY PRECIOUS TIME ANSWERING YOUR USELESS QUESTIONS. YOU ARE A FALSE TEACHER. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE DISCUSSED HERE THAT YOU LOOKED INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S VIEW AND ALLOW IT TO CHANGE YOUR FALSE STAND BECAUSE OF YOUR PRIDE THAT MAKES YOU FEEL YOU VE READ THE BIBLE FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION. ANY EEDIOT CAN DO THAT TOO AND GIVE THE SAME INTERPRETATION YOU ARE GIVING SO STOP MAKING NOISE ABOUT YOU KNOWING THE BIBLE. I CANT BE CARRIED AWAY BY YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS. NOW YOU ARE HERE TO CONVINCE THE POSTER WHO SAID HE WANTS TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DEAD AND NOT ME, FACE HIM AND CONVINCE HIM. AFTER ALL YOUR EFFORT YOU VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE YOUR TEACHINGS ARE BASELESS AND UNREASONABLE. THE QUESTIONS HE ASKED YOU COULDNT PROVIDE CONVINCING ANSWERS TO HIM THAT MEANS YOU ARE FAILING. KEEP TRYING UNTIL YOU CONVINCE HIM(IF YOU CAN), NOT ME.

YOU VE NOT TOLD ME WHERE JESUS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE THAT THE STORY OF LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN IS A PARABLE AND YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU WHERE ABRAHAM WAS AND THE NAME OF THE RICH MAN. SEE WHAT YOUR FALSE TEACHING IS DOING TO YOUR REASONING?

I have always known you as someone that Don't know, Does not want to know and Doesn't know.

You are still influenced by some of you stiff olden days pastors who are strict and thinks they are all on the right path.

I was waiting to learn from you but you could not answer the question. A way of running away from the question. I have seen that before.

The bible did not say the story of Lazarus was a parable or real. How then do we know? Buy reasoning and answering questions of what happened in the story.

Bobbysworld28: @ijawkid
For the sake of argument, let us agree it is a parable. Does dt mean it didn't happen? Jesus na fiction writer now. If Hell was nt real would Jesus wouldn't hv said there was such a place, would He? Obviously, something like dt HAD occured or had d possibilty of happening. It then presupposes dt ur claim abt wht happens after death according to ur account is faulty

Agree it is a parable first..I've shown clearly that it is a parable.......haven't I?...alexleo asked for it and I showed him.....

Now the question you should ask yourself is what was the meaning of the parable??....what point was Jesus trying to drive home??......have you asked yourself these questions??............

I hv agreed it is a parable. Pls enlighten me

alexleo:

My dear, leave this people they are just making noise and claiming they know the scripture more than others(especially ijawkid). If you talk about the Holy Spirit ijawkid will ask you whats his name. Talk about the story of lazarus and the rich man he will ask you whats the name of the rich man. Do i need any other thing to confirm that this is the fruits of a false teacher. To them Jesus is a comedian who just talk anyhow and he may have probably been drunk the day he talked about the story of lazarus and the rich man? GOD IS EXPOSING THESE PEOPLE TO SHAME.

Now you act like my questions are irrelevant.....how can every being on earth and in heaven have there personal names except the holy spirit whom you confidently claim is a person??.........

I have exposed your jejuneness with the scriptures as to the fact that what we have on ground is a parable.............and if its a parable what point was Jesus making??........
ask yourself this question and stop calling me ""I too sabi""

Teach us, ijawkid
U kinda like getting distracted & working urself into a frenzy. If u hv something to share, pls tell

Boomark:

I have always known you as someone that Don't know, Does not want to know and Doesn't know.

You are still influenced by some of you stiff olden days pastors who are strict and thinks they are all on the right path.

I was waiting to learn from you but you could not answer the question. A way of running away from the question. I have seen that before.

The bible did not say the story of Lazarus was a parable or real. How then do we know? Buy reasoning and answering questions of what happened in the story.

YOU DONT NEED TO LEARN FROM SOMEBODY WHO DOES NOT KNOW AND DOES NOT WANT TO KNOW. VERY UNREASONABLE OF YOU TO DO SUCH A THING. SO WHY WAITING TO LEARN FROM ME?

Its people like @alexleo and @Bidam that will call the people of ALUU community WICKED for burning up 4 young boys, yet they claim God will burn billions of people including babies and little ones (there's nothing like age of accountability in the bible) FOREVER for not accepting jesus.

Close your eyes and imagine that those 4 boys are STILL burning as we speak since last year for a sin committed in just a day. Imagine one of them was your brother, son,friend etc.

God is love.

Study your bible

@Segeggs,
Wht do u say abt d case of d rich man & lazarus? We r currently dissecting dt part of d scripture

Segeggs: Its people like @alexleo and @Bidam that will call the people of ALUU community WICKED for burning up 4 young boys, yet they claim God will burn billions of people including babies and little ones (there's nothing like age of accountability in the bible) FOREVER for not accepting jesus.

Close your eyes and imagine that those 4 boys are STILL burning as we speak since last year for a sin committed in just a day. Imagine one of them was your brother, son,friend etc.

God is love.

Study your bible

I agree with you on the part where there is no one burning currently in a hell but the bible is very clear on the age of accountability.


This hell doctrine is a sadistic doctrine of demons.

frosbel:

I agree with you on the part where there is no one burning currently in a hell but the bible is very clear on the age of accountability.


This hell doctrine is a sadistic doctrine of demons.

age of accountability-where in the bible?

Bobbysworld28: @Segeggs,
Wht do u say abt d case of d rich man & lazarus? We r currently dissecting dt part of d scripture

it's a parable. Parables can be interpreted to mean different things but not hell doctrine in the case of lazarus and the rich man.