Image123: one fellow is waking up in the middle of the night depressed about tithe, the other is complaining that his name is Pastor and not 'pastor'. What's wrong with these people? i'd advice Ihedinobi and mko2005 not to EXERT too much time or energy on this issue, the folks you're addressing are not interested in what you say.
foreknowledge

God help us all.

My brother, I'm not.

@ Ihedinobi,

I will respond later to that scriptures you referenced to answer my question on those who receive tithe today.

Ihedinobi:

Ok then. I agree that I will do so...but under one condition: that you show me Scriptures that say exactly not implicitly that tithes have been abolished and that they are not to be given to those who minister to us in spiritual things.

lol..kai..Sory 4 takin so long in respondin U r preconditional demands..just 2 provide scriptures dat prove,explicitly,dat TITHES r now 2 b received by minsters of d gospel/pastors/bishops has also turned 2 a precondition or law(hope say 'curses' r not attached 2 it..lol)..U r even d one dodgin my question cos i asked U first..so let me hear 4rm U and i wil provide mine freely witout preconditions..do we have a deal?

^^ Fair's fair, my friend. I have not dodged your question, I merely put it in perspective. Next play's yours.

Ihedinobi:

I should also point out that by the above, brilapluz was indulging in escapism/legalism in his/her demand of me...which is pretty much what I intended to show with my reply.

hahahahaha..and U tink U r not guilty of escapism/legalism rite?

^^ Allow me to encourage you to read posts in their entirety and note what, if anything, they may be responding to.

m.k.o2005:

There are so many laws that were carried from the old to the new testament. But that isn't the topic for now but if you care,i can still list them for you !It was not just love that was carried from the old to the new but Christ summed up all laws of the new testament proper in love ! And now i ask you,if you agree that love is indeed one of the laws that we can find in the new and the old testament,why not allow me who intends to pay my tithe for the furtherance of the gospel to keep doing it out of the love i have for God,HIS word and HIS work !Do i pay my tithe to church of satan ? I pay to d church of God !
I ask you this question,' DO YOU LOVE GOD' ? If you do,stop persecuting HIM !
God help us

let me get U clearly,u said d reason U tithe is out of love 4 God and 2 further d gospel of christ..cant dat b DONE witout holdin on to an obligatory regulation(tithe) dat forces U 2 give a specified amount rada dan Freely giving..it can stil b done witout being a slave 2 an obsolete law..study paul's instruction 2 d corinthians about Generosity in 2corinthians 9:7..!

Zikkyy:

Ihedinobi na wa for o! you don turn Jesus to tithe collector because you want to justify your tithing scheme

hahahaha..i dey laugh..

christemmbassey: When Jesus was on earth he did not collect tithe, now that he is in heaven you ppl say he needs naira, pls what does he want to do with the naira in heaven? To buy long span to roof ur own mansion?

u gat jokes bruv..lol..

samtoye: I have read with interest the various arguments raised here so i say to each man his conviction. The Gospel of the new testament is premised on FREEDOM from ALL Rites,Rituals and Traditional Obligation. Gal 5:1-6. It is not a sin to obey the law of Moses concerning doctrines and ordinance but you cannot be selective of what to obey or not, he who must follow the law of tithing must also obey all other laws including the law of sabbath etc. Also he who observes it should not make it as a law unto others neither should he enforce as doctrine nor use it as basis of judgement of holiness.

My question now is if we insist on obeying the laws where have you placed "GRACE" or do we practice selective application of Grace? The doctrine of Grace nullifies all physical obligatory requirement to qualify for God's Love, Salvation and Blessings. Lets study to show ourselves a workman of God and don't allow men that have made their stomach their god to add burden that Christ had delivered us from. (2 Tim 2:15)

To the Advocates of NO TITHES

It is clearly shown that the act of giving is divine, encouraged by the bible and has reward
2 Corinthians 9:6-15

The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. As it is written, “He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor; his righteousness endures forever.” He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness. ...

Shalom


Passages about freedom in Christ

John 8:32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
John 8:36- So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?
Romans 8:15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to son-ship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father”.
1 Corinthians 16:13- Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be courageous; be strong.
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 11:20 In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or puts on airs or slaps you in the face.
Galatians 2:4- This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.
Galatians 4:31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
Galatians 5:13- You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

i totally agree wit dis...+100000 likes

Image123: one fellow is waking up in the middle of the night depressed about tithe, the other is complaining that his name is Pastor and not 'pastor'. What's wrong with these people? i'd advice Ihedinobi and mko2005 not to EXERT too much time or energy on this issue, the folks you're addressing are not interested in what you say.
foreknowledge

God help us all.

smh...

Ihedinobi: ^^ Fair's fair, my friend. I have not dodged your question, I merely put it in perspective. Next play's yours.

not fair enuf bruv..i askd U first..except U r not sure of wat U know..*winks*

Ihedinobi: ^^ Allow me to encourage you to read posts in their entirety and note what, if anything, they may be responding to.

clearly bruv,U r d one dodgin issues..how can such a question b so HARD for U 2 prove..smh

@ Ihedinobi,

Goshen360: @ m.k.o2005,

I have read what you wrote but it still doesn't answer my simple and clear question. Very simple, from the word of God, who are those commanded to receive tithe TODAY....under the Church or Christian age\Grace dispensation?

I asked the question above ^ in my discussion with m.k.o2005 and you came up with an answer below:

Ihedinobi:

1. Tithes,

2. collections,

3. material blessings

...from the brethren go to those who labor spiritually for the others.

And Pastor Kun and I asked further,

Pastor Kun:

Can you quote specific scriptures to back these assertions?

Goshen360:

Exactly, do you have scriptures for your statement ^ above?

And below is was your answer,

Ihedinobi:

I'm sure you two have seen them at least once. I may not be inclined to fighting over them with you. But here is one passage at least:

1Corinthians 9:7-14
7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

There you have it.

First in your answer to who are those that receives tithe today, you mentioned three things namely:

1. Tithes,

2. collections,

3. material blessings.

The crux of the matter here is tithe. You added collections and material blessings. I don't understand why you did that but since you mentioned those two, we shall treat them also with the subject of tithe\tithing. First, there's no where in the scripture you quoted that tithe is mentioned specifically. The word of God is greater than we all. If Paul the Apostle wanted to mean or write about tithe to the Church, he would have mentioned it by the Spirit of God. You're simply going beyond what is written and trynna force your tithe into that context like those we know on this forum.

2. Collection in the New Testament is not from the brethren go to those who labor spiritually for the others as you wrongly or falsely claim; it is for the poor among the early church and saints. Doesn't it bother you the church had gone away from the truth of the Apostolic teachings today? Look at the rate of poverty among many churches, folks living less than $2 per day. Does many churches collect for the poor or for themselves?

3. Material blessings? YES! Those who labor spiritually for the others in the word are expected to benefit the materials things. This truth we cannot argue from the word of God but the issue here is, are these material blessings that is to be given to or shared with those who labour spiritually suppose to be or instructed to be tithe or from tithe of others? That's what we seek to address from the scriptures you quoted above.

Now, you quoted 1 Corinthians 9:7-14 with emphasis on verses 13-14 and perhaps presented it as though it speaks of tithe in that context. The problem with many of us is, when we read scriptures, we don't question some things. When I say, question the scriptures, I don't mean it in the negative way. I mean it in the positive so that such questioning can trigger more study or findings. Now, lemme me do justice....please note, tithe as a word did not appear in that text and since it does not, it cannot be assumed to mean tithe. Whenever an old testament scriptures is referenced in the new, a good bible student will always find where it was written in the old and apply it into the context of where the new testament made such quotation(s).

New International Version (©2011)

Don't you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?

In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14

In verse 13, is a reference to group #1, THOSE WHO SERVE IN THE TEMPLE...and how do they get their food? The context answers, ...from the temple. Where is this in scriptures from the Old Testament?

New International Version (©2011)
The Levitical priests--indeed, the whole tribe of Levi--are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the LORD, for that is their inheritance. Deuteronomy 18:1

...please note that those who serve in the TEMPLE are different from those who serve at the ALTAR but the same tribe of Levi or Levitical priesthood. Hence, the two-in-one reference to TEMPLE and ALTAR. In the same verse 13, is a reference to the #1(b) groups - Those who serve at the altar and how do they get their food? Again, the context answers for itself, ...from what is shared from what is offered on the altar . Where is this in scriptures? Leviticus 7:1-8 is the answer - Please, everybody should read it. I can't do much quoting now but verses 5-7 says,

The priest shall burn them on the altar as a food offering presented to the LORD. It is a guilt offering. Any male in a priest's family may eat it, but it must be eaten in the sanctuary area; it is most holy. The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.

Therefore, we have group one - those who serve in the temple AND those who serve at the altar

In verse 14, the Apostle made reference to another group, group #2 - those who preach the gospel. And how are these group of people supposed to make their living? The Apostle said, it was the Lord (Jesus) Christ that COMMANDED it that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. Now, the point is context and reference.

Where did the Lord gave such commandment and was it that the Lord said those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel BY COLLECTING TITHE? We have to go back to where the Lord gave such COMMANDMENT AND IF WE CAN'T FIND THAT THE LORD GAVE SUCH COMMANDMENT TO BE TITHE, THOSE WHO FORCE TITHE INTO THIS TEXT ARE IN DANGER OF ADDING TO GOD'S WORD AND ARE IN DANGER OF GOD'S JUDGMENT! Where did the Lord gave such commandment?

1After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road. 5“When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them; if not, it will return to you. 7Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house. Luke 10, NIV

From here, we see that those who preach the gospel and should receive their living from the gospel is by the FREEWILL GIVING of those to whom the gospel is preached to and the Lord said this is because the worker or labourer deserves his wages. There is nowhere in scriptures where Christ commanded tithe to be received by those who preach the gospel. We have seen how those who minister at the altar and the temple get their living. These are two different groups: those who serve in the temple \ those who serve at the altar AND those who preach the gospel.

Those who preach the GOSPEL were NEVER told told to get their living from the TEMPLE; it was instructed or commanded to those who minister at the TEMPLE. The same way, those who minister at the TEMPLE cannot go get their living from those who serve at the ALTAR. If there such a place in scripture in reference to verse 14 of I Corinthians 9 that the Lord COMMANDED that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from TITHE, please point out the scripture or be guilt of adding to God's word.

. . ."Do not go beyond what is written." 1 Corinthians 4:6

Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi,



I asked the question above ^ in my discussion with m.k.o2005 and you came up with an answer below:


And Pastor Kun and I asked further,





And below is was your answer,


First in your answer to who are those that receives tithe today, you mentioned three things namely:

1. Tithes,

2. collections,

3. material blessings.

The crux of the matter here is tithe. You added collections and material blessings. I don't understand why you did that but since you mentioned those two, we shall treat them also with the subject of tithe\tithing. First, there's no where in the scripture you quoted that tithe is mentioned specifically. The word of God is greater than we all. If Paul the Apostle wanted to mean or write about tithe to the Church, he would have mentioned it by the Spirit of God. You're simply going beyond what is written and trynna force your tithe into that context like those we know on this forum.

2. Collection in the New Testament is not from the brethren go to those who labor spiritually for the others as you wrongly or falsely claim; it is for the poor among the early church and saints. Doesn't it bother you the church had gone away from the truth of the Apostolic teachings today? Look at the rate of poverty among many churches, folks living less than $2 per day. Does many churches collect for the poor or for themselves?

3. Material blessings? YES! Those who labor spiritually for the others in the word are expected to benefit the materials things. This truth we cannot argue from the word of God but the issue here is, are these material blessings that is to be given to or shared with those who labour spiritually suppose to be or instructed to be tithe or from tithe of others? That's what we seek to address from the scriptures you quoted above.

Now, you quoted 1 Corinthians 9:7-14 with emphasis on verses 13-14 and perhaps presented it as though it speaks of tithe in that context. The problem with many of us is, when we read scriptures, we don't question some things. When I say, question the scriptures, I don't mean it in the negative way. I mean it in the positive so that such questioning can trigger more study or findings. Now, lemme me do justice....please note, tithe as a word did not appear in that text and since it does not, it cannot be assumed to mean tithe. Whenever an old testament scriptures is referenced in the new, a good bible student will always find where it was written in the old and apply it into the context of where the new testament made such quotation(s).

New International Version (©2011)

Don't you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?

In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14

In verse 13, is a reference to group #1, THOSE WHO SERVE IN THE TEMPLE...and how do they get their food? The context answers, ...from the temple. Where is this in scriptures from the Old Testament?

New International Version (©2011)
The Levitical priests--indeed, the whole tribe of Levi--are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the LORD, for that is their inheritance. Deuteronomy 18:1

...please note that those who serve in the TEMPLE are different from those who serve at the ALTAR but the same tribe of Levi or Levitical priesthood. Hence, the two-in-one reference to TEMPLE and ALTAR. In the same verse 13, is a reference to the #1(b) groups - Those who serve at the altar and how do they get their food? Again, the context answers for itself, ...from what is shared from what is offered on the altar . Where is this in scriptures? Leviticus 7:1-8 is the answer - Please, everybody should read it. I can't do much quoting now but verses 5-7 says,

The priest shall burn them on the altar as a food offering presented to the LORD. It is a guilt offering. Any male in a priest's family may eat it, but it must be eaten in the sanctuary area; it is most holy. The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.

Therefore, we have group one - those who serve in the temple AND those who serve at the altar

In verse 14, the Apostle made reference to another group, group #2 - those who preach the gospel. And how are these group of people supposed to make their living? The Apostle said, it was the Lord (Jesus) Christ that COMMANDED it that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. Now, the point is context and reference.

Where did the Lord gave such commandment and was it that the Lord said those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel BY COLLECTING TITHE? We have to go back to where the Lord gave such COMMANDMENT AND IF WE CAN'T FIND THAT THE LORD GAVE SUCH COMMANDMENT TO BE TITHE, THOSE WHO FORCE TITHE INTO THIS TEXT ARE IN DANGER OF ADDING TO GOD'S WORD AND ARE IN DANGER OF GOD'S JUDGMENT! Where did the Lord gave such commandment?

1After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road. 5“When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them; if not, it will return to you. 7Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house. Luke 10, NIV

From here, we see that those who preach the gospel and should receive their living from the gospel is by the FREEWILL GIVING of those to whom the gospel is preached to and the Lord said this is because the worker or labourer deserves his wages. There is nowhere in scriptures where Christ commanded tithe to be received by those who preach the gospel. We have seen how those who minister at the altar and the temple get their living. These are two different groups: those who serve in the temple \ those who serve at the altar AND those who preach the gospel.

Those who preach the GOSPEL were NEVER told told to get their living from the TEMPLE; it was instructed or commanded to those who minister at the TEMPLE. The same way, those who minister at the TEMPLE cannot go get their living from those who serve at the ALTAR. If there such a place in scripture in reference to verse 14 of I Corinthians 9 that the Lord COMMANDED that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from TITHE, please point out the scripture or be guilt of adding to God's word.

. . ."Do not go beyond what is written." 1 Corinthians 4:6

bro ihedinobi i think you should take time to read this, great truth lie in it.
You are sooo loaded @bro goshen360 keep burning!

Ihedinobi:

Why is your starting point the correct one? Do you realize that we were not starting a conversation at the point where you came in?

I did realise, all I am trying to warn about is letting the discussions degrade into a 'show me where so and so is written explicitly' - that isn't an approach that seeks to gain a fundamental understanding of the subject at hand.

Image123: one fellow is waking up in the middle of the night depressed about tithe, the other is complaining that his name is Pastor and not 'pastor'. What's wrong with these people?

Honestly this is hilarious, but very serious as well.

Every pastor who collects tithes is nothing but “a thief and a robber.”

I wholeheartedly disagree with this assertion - on the basis of its blanket condemnation and gross generalisation. While some pastors may collect tithes with disingenuous motives or through deceit, not all do.

My view as I've stated often is thus:

I do not believe tithing, as practiced by many churches today, is a requirement for Christians according to the bible. While support for those that labour for the gospel is required, the manner of this support is down to each believer/groups of believers to decide. If a believer/group of believers choose to tithe monthly/quarterly/annually, then that is their prerogative.

The only caveat is this: in my opinion tithing should not be done to conform with the law (even subconsciously), as you cannot conform to one element and leave the others. You would end up in the same condition as the Galatians - read that letter further to understand the dangers of this slippery slope into re-enslaving yourself.

Finally, individually you may be convicted by the Spirit to set aside a percentage of your income monthly - 2,3,5,10 or even 20%. That is completely between you and God - however, do not seek to enforce your personal conviction/instruction on others.

brilapluz:
not fair enuf bruv..i askd U first..except U r not sure of wat U know..*winks*

It does appear that you do not understand what I did, my friend. You made an unreasonable demand of me and to show you the unreasonableness of it, I made its like of you and put my honor on the line.

Now, I have made you a promise. I will give you what you demanded of me if you can give me its like. Until you can, my friend, I have nothing more to say to you.

debosky:

I did realise, all I am trying to warn about is letting the discussions degrade into a 'show me where so and so is written explicitly' - that isn't an approach that seeks to gain a fundamental understanding of the subject at hand.

And you saw fit to warn me instead of brilapluz who led the way in that direction why exactly?

ATMC: bro ihedinobi i think you should take time to read this, great truth lie in it.
You are sooo loaded @bro goshen360 keep burning!

And have you been taking time to read my responses, sis? I advise that you also take time to read my particular response to this post of Goshen's.

Ihedinobi:

And you saw fit to warn me instead of brilapluz who led the way in that direction why exactly?

I quoted your post as it was the latest one in the exchanges, but the warning was to all involved - hence my use of Anything else is sheer escapism/legalism in the name of 'show me where xyz is said explicitly'. which I think generically addresses the issue from both sides.

Besides, I consider you as my close(r) brother and based on our previous discussions, I believe you would appreciate the need to elevate the discussion above a 'show and tell' type conversation.

If I caused offence I apologise as that was not my intention.

Ihedinobi:

I'm sure you saw Goshen's post which I was responding to.

of course i saw Goshen's post, i still don't see how Jesus ended up a tithe collector That is very much the gospel of Ihedinobi.

Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi,
Now, you quoted 1 Corinthians 9:7-14 with emphasis on verses 13-14 and perhaps presented it as though it speaks of tithe in that context. The problem with many of us is, when we read scriptures, we don't question some things. When I say, question the scriptures, I don't mean it in the negative way. I mean it in the positive so that such questioning can trigger more study or findings. Now, lemme me do justice....please note, tithe as a word did not appear in that text and since it does not, it cannot be assumed to mean tithe. Whenever an old testament scriptures is referenced in the new, a good bible student will always find where it was written in the old and apply it into the context of where the new testament made such quotation(s).

New International Version (©2011)

Don't you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?

In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14

In verse 13, is a reference to group #1, THOSE WHO SERVE IN THE TEMPLE...and how do they get their food? The context answers, ...from the temple. Where is this in scriptures from the Old Testament?

New International Version (©2011)
The Levitical priests--indeed, the whole tribe of Levi--are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the LORD, for that is their inheritance. Deuteronomy 18:1

...please note that those who serve in the TEMPLE are different from those who serve at the ALTAR but the same tribe of Levi or Levitical priesthood. Hence, the two-in-one reference to TEMPLE and ALTAR. In the same verse 13, is a reference to the #1(b) groups - Those who serve at the altar and how do they get their food? Again, the context answers for itself, ...from what is shared from what is offered on the altar . Where is this in scriptures? Leviticus 7:1-8 is the answer - Please, everybody should read it. I can't do much quoting now but verses 5-7 says,

The priest shall burn them on the altar as a food offering presented to the LORD. It is a guilt offering. Any male in a priest's family may eat it, but it must be eaten in the sanctuary area; it is most holy. The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.

Therefore, we have group one - those who serve in the temple AND those who serve at the altar

In verse 14, the Apostle made reference to another group, group #2 - those who preach the gospel. And how are these group of people supposed to make their living? The Apostle said, it was the Lord (Jesus) Christ that COMMANDED it that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. Now, the point is context and reference.

Where did the Lord gave such commandment and was it that the Lord said those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel BY COLLECTING TITHE? We have to go back to where the Lord gave such COMMANDMENT AND IF WE CAN'T FIND THAT THE LORD GAVE SUCH COMMANDMENT TO BE TITHE, THOSE WHO FORCE TITHE INTO THIS TEXT ARE IN DANGER OF ADDING TO GOD'S WORD AND ARE IN DANGER OF GOD'S JUDGMENT! Where did the Lord gave such commandment?

1After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road. 5“When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them; if not, it will return to you. 7Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house. Luke 10, NIV

From here, we see that those who preach the gospel and should receive their living from the gospel is by the FREEWILL GIVING of those to whom the gospel is preached to and the Lord said this is because the worker or labourer deserves his wages. There is nowhere in scriptures where Christ commanded tithe to be received by those who preach the gospel. We have seen how those who minister at the altar and the temple get their living. These are two different groups: those who serve in the temple \ those who serve at the altar AND those who preach the gospel.

Those who preach the GOSPEL were NEVER told told to get their living from the TEMPLE; it was instructed or commanded to those who minister at the TEMPLE. The same way, those who minister at the TEMPLE cannot go get their living from those who serve at the ALTAR. If there such a place in scripture in reference to verse 14 of I Corinthians 9 that the Lord COMMANDED that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from TITHE, please point out the scripture or be guilt of adding to God's word.

. . ."Do not go beyond what is written." 1 Corinthians 4:6

well done pastor Goshen360. this is the truth. unfortunately, my 'tithing' bros and sis will not read it because they are afraid of the truth....and when they do read it is not to understand because their heart is already hardened by their insatiable desire to hammer

debosky:
Finally, individually you may be convicted by the Spirit to set aside a percentage of your income monthly - 2,3,5,10 or even 20%. That is completely between you and God - however, do not seek to enforce your personal conviction/instruction on others.

Good talk

Ihedinobi:
I advise that you also take time to read my particular response to this post of Goshen's.

That would make an interesting read. i dey wait

debosky:
Besides, I consider you as my close(r) brother and based on our previous discussions, I believe you would appreciate the need to elevate the discussion above a 'show and tell' type conversation.

i believe you meant a 'question and answer' type conversation

brilapluz:
let me get U clearly,u said d reason U tithe is out of love 4 God and 2 further d gospel of christ..cant dat b DONE witout holdin on to an obligatory regulation(tithe) dat forces U 2 give a specified amount rada dan Freely giving..it can stil b done witout being a slave 2 an obsolete law..study paul's instruction 2 d corinthians about Generosity in 2corinthians 9:7..!

If you actually read through my posts you will see my point regarding the special grace of God and the understanding some have concerning tithe,that people who understands tithing have gone beyond 10 percent ! 'We' no longer give 10 percent ! The grace made it possible for us not to be obligated to give just 10 percent becos we want to do more for Christ! And the grace made it possible for us that out of our love for Christ and HIS word we should tithe ! It's like taking a dive in a pool and not be wet ! How possible ? If we are truly born again,we will not contradict or go against tithers or her collectors ! A truly born again should be eager to teach people how to tithe lovingly and not obligatorily ! It's just like saying i want to follow Jesus becos i don't want to be punished ! It should be i am following Christ and doing HIS work becos of the love i have for God !
What haven't we heard concerning God and HIS word ! Even some say there is no God ! Some say Christ is not the messaiah! sOME SAY Christ isn't the son of God ! Some say HE never died not to talk of resurrection ! Some of you even say HE never walked the surface of the earth ! Was it not naija pagan,muskeeto,ptolomeo,ifesness,bilonnaire ,ooman and so many of them who said 'we' been Christians are beein foolish becos we follow a jewish wicked God ?
But God knows HIS own ! Tithing never takes anyone to heaven ! But i believe that anyone who has got a very good relationship with God will not call people who preach tithing thieves and say that those who pay tithes are sinners !
Follow ur heart mate !
God help us all

Ihedinobi:

And have you been taking time to read my responses, sis? I advise that you also take time to read my particular response to this post of Goshen's.

i'm in d waiting room

Ihedinobi:



It does appear that you do not understand what I did, my friend. You made an unreasonable demand of me and to show you the unreasonableness of it, I made its like of you and put my honor on the line.

Now, I have made you a promise. I will give you what you demanded of me if you can give me its like. Until you can, my friend, I have nothing more to say to you.

lol..so it has now turned into an insult..i always tot dats d path U mite take..lol..SO BE IT BRUV..guess U dont hv anytin 2 say..funny guy!

Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi,



I asked the question above ^ in my discussion with m.k.o2005 and you came up with an answer below:


And Pastor Kun and I asked further,





And below is was your answer,


First in your answer to who are those that receives tithe today, you mentioned three things namely:

1. Tithes,

2. collections,

3. material blessings.

The crux of the matter here is tithe. You added collections and material blessings. I don't understand why you did that but since you mentioned those two, we shall treat them also with the subject of tithe\tithing. First, there's no where in the scripture you quoted that tithe is mentioned specifically. The word of God is greater than we all. If Paul the Apostle wanted to mean or write about tithe to the Church, he would have mentioned it by the Spirit of God. You're simply going beyond what is written and trynna force your tithe into that context like those we know on this forum.

@bolded: Am I indeed.

Are tithes collected, that is, are tithes collections? Are they material blessings?

I did tell you to pay attention, didn't I, Goshen?

2. Collection in the New Testament is not from the brethren go to those who labor spiritually for the others as you wrongly or falsely claim; it is for the poor among the early church and saints. Doesn't it bother you the church had gone away from the truth of the Apostolic teachings today? Look at the rate of poverty among many churches, folks living less than $2 per day. Does many churches collect for the poor or for themselves?

@bolded: is that right? Well, let's see what your #3 says, shall we?

3. Material blessings? YES! Those who labor spiritually for the others in the word are expected to benefit the materials things. This truth we cannot argue from the word of God but the issue here is, are these material blessings that is to be given to or shared with those who labour spiritually suppose to be or instructed to be tithe or from tithe of others? That's what we seek to address from the scriptures you quoted above.

These material blessings that you agree that ministers of the Word are entitled to, are they ever collected together in the church?

Now, you quoted 1 Corinthians 9:7-14 with emphasis on verses 13-14 and perhaps presented it as though it speaks of tithe in that context. The problem with many of us is, when we read scriptures, we don't question some things. When I say, question the scriptures, I don't mean it in the negative way. I mean it in the positive so that such questioning can trigger more study or findings. Now, lemme me do justice....please note, tithe as a word did not appear in that text and since it does not, it cannot be assumed to mean tithe. Whenever an old testament scriptures is referenced in the new, a good bible student will always find where it was written in the old and apply it into the context of where the new testament made such quotation(s).

New International Version (©2011)

Don't you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?

In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14

In verse 13, is a reference to group #1, THOSE WHO SERVE IN THE TEMPLE...and how do they get their food? The context answers, ...from the temple. Where is this in scriptures from the Old Testament?

New International Version (©2011)
The Levitical priests--indeed, the whole tribe of Levi--are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the LORD, for that is their inheritance. Deuteronomy 18:1

...please note that those who serve in the TEMPLE are different from those who serve at the ALTAR but the same tribe of Levi or Levitical priesthood. Hence, the two-in-one reference to TEMPLE and ALTAR. In the same verse 13, is a reference to the #1(b) groups - Those who serve at the altar and how do they get their food? Again, the context answers for itself, ...from what is shared from what is offered on the altar . Where is this in scriptures? Leviticus 7:1-8 is the answer - Please, everybody should read it. I can't do much quoting now but verses 5-7 says,

The priest shall burn them on the altar as a food offering presented to the LORD. It is a guilt offering. Any male in a priest's family may eat it, but it must be eaten in the sanctuary area; it is most holy. The same law applies to both the sin offering and the guilt offering: They belong to the priest who makes atonement with them.

Therefore, we have group one - those who serve in the temple AND those who serve at the altar

In verse 14, the Apostle made reference to another group, group #2 - those who preach the gospel. And how are these group of people supposed to make their living? The Apostle said, it was the Lord (Jesus) Christ that COMMANDED it that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. Now, the point is context and reference.

Where did the Lord gave such commandment and was it that the Lord said those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel BY COLLECTING TITHE? We have to go back to where the Lord gave such COMMANDMENT AND IF WE CAN'T FIND THAT THE LORD GAVE SUCH COMMANDMENT TO BE TITHE, THOSE WHO FORCE TITHE INTO THIS TEXT ARE IN DANGER OF ADDING TO GOD'S WORD AND ARE IN DANGER OF GOD'S JUDGMENT! Where did the Lord gave such commandment?

1After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. 3Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. 4Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road. 5“When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them; if not, it will return to you. 7Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house. Luke 10, NIV

From here, we see that those who preach the gospel and should receive their living from the gospel is by the FREEWILL GIVING of those to whom the gospel is preached to and the Lord said this is because the worker or labourer deserves his wages. There is nowhere in scriptures where Christ commanded tithe to be received by those who preach the gospel. We have seen how those who minister at the altar and the temple get their living. These are two different groups: those who serve in the temple \ those who serve at the altar AND those who preach the gospel.

Those who preach the GOSPEL were NEVER told told to get their living from the TEMPLE; it was instructed or commanded to those who minister at the TEMPLE. The same way, those who minister at the TEMPLE cannot go get their living from those who serve at the ALTAR. If there such a place in scripture in reference to verse 14 of I Corinthians 9 that the Lord COMMANDED that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from TITHE, please point out the scripture or be guilt of adding to God's word.

. . ."Do not go beyond what is written." 1 Corinthians 4:6

I think that the short of everything you said above is that ministers of the Gospel have been granted the right, nay, commanded by the Lord to receive their wages and sustenance from preaching the Gospel. Your contentions are that tithes were not specifically mentioned and the tone of our Lord's command was such that the wages that the ministers of the Gospel receive must be freely given.

Goshen's Concern #1: Tithes were not specifically mentioned.

Would they need to be if our Lord and His disciples took for granted that it was an eternal principle?


Goshen's Concern #2: Whatever the ministers were to receive as wages must be without compulsion.

If it is natural to the believer to give a tenth of his material wealth toward the wages of those who minister to him spiritually, would it be a matter of obligating him or compelling him to pay tithes if one appealed to his natural inclination to do so? Does a thing's nature not compel that thing to behave in a particular way and still be free in its actions behaving that way?

Edit: PS. I feel that I must add the following: the question we're discussing is who receives the tithes in the House of the Lord today? My answer is those that minister to the Body spiritually. You asked for Scriptural evidence which I offered but which you rejected on the grounds that (1)it does not mention tithes specifically and (2)the wages it speaks of that the ministers of the Word receive are not obligatory upon their givers. In the above, I have offered an address of those grounds. I offer this explanation to keep us on course and prevent running away with issues not immediately relevant to the discussion. That is why I did not address some things you said in your post.

brilapluz:
lol..so it has now turned into an insult..i always tot dats d path U mite take..lol..SO BE IT BRUV..guess U dont hv anytin 2 say..funny guy!

Now, where exactly did I insult you in that post? I insist on an answer, sir. Please point out exactly where I insulted you.