Reading my bible this morning, I was puzzled by a short passage at Matthew 27:52-53, which comes just after the description of Jesus' death on the cross.


The passage reads as follows:
The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.


The passage says that some dead holy people returned to life and came out of their tombs, then went into Jerusalem, where many inhabitants of the city saw them. Because the King James translation refers to these resurrected people as "saints", this event is sometimes called "the resurrection of the dead saints".

Matthew 27:51 indicates that an earthquake occurred just as Jesus died, and that this earthquake was what opened the tombs of these saints. But although they returned to life immediately, they apparently didn't go into Jerusalem until at least two days later, or no earlier than the first Easter Sunday.

Scholars have looked for reports of this resurrection in other ancient writings, but no definite references to it have been found. However, some scholars do see a possible connection to ancient prophesies about a resurrection of dead saints expected to occur during the End Times. The prophesies say that all dead saints will return to life at that time so that they can take their place in a newly-created eternal Kingdom of God. It has been suggested that the resurrection described in Matthew's passage was a "preview" of this predicted end-times resurrection.

Under normal circumstances, a dead body will eventually decompose to the point that its individual features areno longer recognizable. But many early Christians believed that the body of a true holy person is incorruptible, so that it doesn't decay atall, but is miraculously preserved for its eventual resurrection. This explains how long-dead saints could return to life in their original bodies.

Another possible explanation for Matthew's passage relates it to a story known as the "Harrowing of Hell". According to this story, which is mentioned in the Apostles' Creed, after Jesus died on the cross he descended to Hell and rescued the souls of all the ancient dead saints from their imprisonment there. After these rescued souls left Hell, they could have returned to their old bodies in the tombs and brought them back to life. But if this is what happened, it must have taken place very quickly, because Matthew says that the saints were resurrected almost immediately after Jesus died.

The real puzzle here is that all of these resurrected saints were apparently buried in the vicinity of Jerusalem. Nothing is said about any dead saints who were buried elsewhere. The passage also doesn't identify any of the resurrected saints by name.

Matthew also doesn't say what these resurrected saints did after they were seen in Jerusalem.

The passage doesn't say that they died again, so other possibilities should be considered. Of course they probably aren't still alive on the earth somewhere.

The other three gospels don't mention the resurrection of these saints.

Another reason for doubt is that these resurrected saints would have created a lot of excitement when they appeared in Jerusalem, and a historian like Josephus, who wrote a detailed account of the period, probably would have said something about it. But he doesn't mention it at all.



The Questions that come to mind is:

1. Who Were These Resurrected Saints?
2. Were These People Really Resurrected or the story is urban legend?

...........about the resurrected dead being those buried "around Jerusalem",you should know that the author was talking of what he probably saw and those who were around him and affirmed waht they saw.......you definitely wouldn't expect him to know whaty was happening in say Ethiopia...........that said,T think the Bible has a way of coming up with doubtful stories but if you believe it,you've got to believe it's stories.

OX59: ...........about the resurrected dead being those buried "around Jerusalem",you should know that the author was talking of what he probably saw and those who were around him and affirmed waht they saw.......you definitely wouldn't expect him to know whaty was happening in say Ethiopia...........that said,T think the Bible has a way of coming up with doubtful stories but if you believe it,you've got to believe it's stories.

still didn't answer the question. Matthew only wrote the zombie story. The eleven colleague or disciples of his didn't write anything related to this. Neither was the historian of Jesus era nor any document can be use to verify this mass resurrection of saints. It seem to me as hoax.

Thanks anyway

FOLYKAZE:

still didn't answer the question. Matthew only wrote the zombie story. The eleven colleague or disciples of his didn't write anything related to this. Neither was the historian of Jesus era nor any document can be use to verify this mass resurrection of saints. It seem to me as hoax.

Thanks anyway

The enitre jesus story is a fable. . .

mazaje:

The enitre jesus story is a fable. . .

Im not 100% sure about that. I read about his historicity on wikipedia and confirmed that the dude really exist by some scholars. Though some of them didn't ascribe to his divinity. Also we have one historian that writes about him named jospheus.

the graves were opened but the bodies of d dead saints didn't come out until after d ressurection of Jesus- d first fruit of them who slept. luke actually records an occurence in chapter 24 though d dead saint there hapened to b JESUS himself. anywhere Jesus ascended into heaven and these saints disappeared (ascended)- Jesus led d triain!

FOLYKAZE: Reading my bible this morning, I was puzzled by a short passage at Matthew 27:52-53, which comes just after the description of Jesus' death on the cross.


The passage reads as follows:
The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.


The passage says that some dead holy people returned to life and came out of their tombs, then went into Jerusalem, where many inhabitants of the city saw them. Because the King James translation refers to these resurrected people as "saints", this event is sometimes called "the resurrection of the dead saints".

Matthew 27:51 indicates that an earthquake occurred just as Jesus died, and that this earthquake was what opened the tombs of these saints. But although they returned to life immediately, they apparently didn't go into Jerusalem until at least two days later, or no earlier than the first Easter Sunday.

Scholars have looked for reports of this resurrection in other ancient writings, but no definite references to it have been found. However, some scholars do see a possible connection to ancient prophesies about a resurrection of dead saints expected to occur during the End Times. The prophesies say that all dead saints will return to life at that time so that they can take their place in a newly-created eternal Kingdom of God. It has been suggested that the resurrection described in Matthew's passage was a "preview" of this predicted end-times resurrection.

Under normal circumstances, a dead body will eventually decompose to the point that its individual features areno longer recognizable. But many early Christians believed that the body of a true holy person is incorruptible, so that it doesn't decay atall, but is miraculously preserved for its eventual resurrection. This explains how long-dead saints could return to life in their original bodies.

Another possible explanation for Matthew's passage relates it to a story known as the "Harrowing of Hell". According to this story, which is mentioned in the Apostles' Creed, after Jesus died on the cross he descended to Hell and rescued the souls of all the ancient dead saints from their imprisonment there. After these rescued souls left Hell, they could have returned to their old bodies in the tombs and brought them back to life. But if this is what happened, it must have taken place very quickly, because Matthew says that the saints were resurrected almost immediately after Jesus died.

The real puzzle here is that all of these resurrected saints were apparently buried in the vicinity of Jerusalem. Nothing is said about any dead saints who were buried elsewhere. The passage also doesn't identify any of the resurrected saints by name.

Matthew also doesn't say what these resurrected saints did after they were seen in Jerusalem.

The passage doesn't say that they died again, so other possibilities should be considered. Of course they probably aren't still alive on the earth somewhere.

The other three gospels don't mention the resurrection of these saints.

Another reason for doubt is that these resurrected saints would have created a lot of excitement when they appeared in Jerusalem, and a historian like Josephus, who wrote a detailed account of the period, probably would have said something about it. But he doesn't mention it at all.



The Questions that come to mind is:

1. Who Were These Resurrected Saints?
2. Were These People Really Resurrected or the story is urban legend?

Why are you obsessed with fairy tales

cassava stick:
Why are you obsessed with fairy tales

Im on the same lane with you man

d saints were those who believed in Jesus as the CHRIST before dieing! Jesus said ' he dat believeth in me though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth n believeth in me shall never die.' do u believe this?

wordychap: the graves were opened but the bodies of d dead saints didn't come out until after d ressurection of Jesus- d first fruit of them who slept. luke actually records an occurence in chapter 24 though d dead saint there hapened to b JESUS himself. anywhere Jesus ascended into heaven and these saints disappeared (ascended)- Jesus led d triain!

hey pastor's puppy, read the verse again.
The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came outof the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

FOLYKAZE:


Im not 100% sure about that. I read about his historicity on wikipedia and confirmed that the dude really exist by some scholars. Though some of them didn't ascribe to his divinity. Also we have one historian that writes about him named jospheus.

. There might have been a man behind the legend and fable of Jesus just as there was a man behind the mohamed legend andfable. Josephus Account of jesus is disputed by many scholars

cassava stick:
Why are you obsessed with fairy tales

Im on the same lane with you man

FOLYKAZE:

Im on the same lane with you man

..and what lane is that?

FOLYKAZE:

still didn't answer the question. Matthew only wrote the zombie story. The eleven colleague or disciples of his didn't write anything related to this. Neither was the historian of Jesus era nor any document can be use to verify this mass resurrection of saints. It seem to me as hoax.

Thanks anyway

just as mattthew was the only one that wrote that herod ordered the death of all children under 2years,a fable unsupported by anyone else either in the bible or in history

mazaje: . There might have been a man behind the legend and fable just of Jesus Just as there was a man behind the mohamed legend andfable. Josephus Account of jesus is disputed by many scholars

josephus never gave any account of jesus.testimonium flavanium was an interpolation by eusebius to lend some credibility to the new state religion

FOLYKAZE:


Im not 100% sure about that. I read about his historicity on wikipedia and confirmed that the dude really exist by some scholars. Though some of them didn't ascribe to his divinity. Also we have one historian that writes about him named jospheus.

josephus published his antiquities around 90AD which is almost 60years after jesus supposedly was crucified.historians of the time jesus apparently lived such seneca and pliny the elder did write a single word about him

@ FOLYKAZE etc, heaven was made for people, n so was hell!

wordychap: d saints were those who believed in Jesus as the CHRIST before dieing! Jesus said ' he dat believeth in me though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth n believeth in me shall never die.' do u believe this?

sorry I dont believe that. Jesus preached for three years, who are the dead people pls that believe in Jesus?

Delafruita:
just as mattthew was the only one that wrote that herod ordered the death of all children under 2years,a fable unsupported by anyone else either in the bible or in history

Truth is scary

cassava stick:
..and what lane is that?

Off-fairy tale lane. Hope you know now?

Delafruita:
josephus published his antiquities around 90AD which is almost 60years after jesus supposedly was crucified.historians of the time jesus apparently lived such seneca and pliny the elder did write a single word about him

It seeming to me now that Jesus is fable

wordychap: @ FOLYKAZE etc, heaven was made for people, n so was hell!

says you

FOLYKAZE:


It seeming to me now that Jesus is fable

of course its a fable.in reality,there are people in history named jesus or more appropiately yeshwa which is an adaptation of joshua.an example is jesus the megalomaniac who was stoned to death at the city gate,another is jesus,leader of a band of robbers.infact 10% of all jewish males of the first century were named jesus.however,there is no historical mention of yeshwa bar josephus.its inconceivable that a man will gather thousands together in a small town with many historians and not a single one would pen a word about him.

FOLYKAZE:


It seeming to me now that Jesus is fable

The biblical jesus was a fable. . .

@op
The resurrected saints are saints that were dead, duh. And the events are not urban or rural legends. Do you exactly expect names or what?
Now, that something isn't in the news doesn't mean it didn't happen. Matthew is an historian that i trust abi which qualifications he no get? Do you know that many of the things tv joshua is doing or not doing is not in the news or recorded by any historian of repute(if there is anything like that)? Its majorly on and from HIS station only. Does this translate to mean he is not giving out rice and whatever he gives even in the presence of thousands of his congregation? Bishop Oyedepo's message last Sunday to tens of thousands, how many historians will record it? If its not recorded, does that mean it never happened? Pastor Kumuyi's program last month that drew hundreds of thousands literally, did you hear about it? Did you read it on the news? If the answer is no, does that automatically mean that it never happened? Pastor Chris and Pastor Adeboye's congresses and crusades, how much can you say about the last three months 'editions'? Did you read of them on nairaland? Were hundreds of thousands of Nigerians not involved? If by chance, you didn't hear of them in this age of information and internet, what are the chances of someone hearing about these happenings fifty years from now(if Jesus tarried)? Would it be the right thing for them to dismiss that these things never happened fifty years before since no historian confirms it except for the church?

Image123: @op
The resurrected saints are saints that were dead, duh. And the events are not urban or rural legends. Do you exactly expect names or what?
Now, that something isn't in the news doesn't mean it didn't happen. Matthew is an historian that i trust abi which qualifications he no get? Do you know that many of the things tv joshua is doing or not doing is not in the news or recorded by any historian of repute(if there is anything like that)? Its majorly on and from HIS station only. Does this translate to mean he is not giving out rice and whatever he gives even in the presence of thousands of his congregation? Bishop Oyedepo's message last Sunday to tens of thousands, how many historians will record it? If its not recorded, does that mean it never happened? Pastor Kumuyi's program last month that drew hundreds of thousands literally, did you hear about it? Did you read it on the news? If the answer is no, does that automatically mean that it never happened? Pastor Chris and Pastor Adeboye's congresses and crusades, how much can you say about the last three months 'editions'? Did you read of them on nairaland? Were hundreds of thousands of Nigerians not involved? If by chance, you didn't hear of them in this age of information and internet, what are the chances of someone hearing about these happenings fifty years from now(if Jesus tarried)? Would it be the right thing for them to dismiss that these things never happened fifty years before since no historian confirms it except for the church?

Is this a christian fashion of taqiyya or just a speculation?

The crusades of those pastors you mentioned are always recorded on tape. We got lot of them on youtube and video sites. Mostly all their sermon are recorded on audio cassettes and with video camera. There is non of their programmes which are not recorded. In the market today, you can buy dvd, cd, online files, magazines, tv programmes, radio sponsor programmes, leaflets, books and mouth to mouth information carriers that spread their messages. So if in 50yrs time to today, these documents can be recovered. Just say you dont have this informations, on their websites, magazines and videos cassettes, you will have them. So that point up there is baseless.


Dead saints resurrection is a momentous event. Lot of people saw this happening. They meet them and will be over-joyed. How will such information be kept to only matthew? The other reason you can give on not having information on your pastors programmes is because it always a repeatition of messages. They will always preach same things over time. It all about tithe, progression, faith, heaven, hell, love, peace, etc. So the message wont be something special to you. But when they say something new, unique or special to your hearing or peoples hearing, it will spread like fire. The day Adeboye said he drive his car from Ore to Lagos was spread even to papers abroad. Such thing has never happened. People want to witness such thing. Even if it a lie, they are documented, his speech on it when he was celebratiing his birthday was recorded, coveraged and written down.

But on this issue of dead saints which are momentous event, not only are they not noticed by any contemporary non-christian sources, but none of the other gospel writers mentions this occuring. Even matthew provides no reaction to these events is described, nor does he mention what happened to the saints after they appearance.

If these events really happen hence, why are they mentioned here and not with the miraculous events of the resurrection at Matthew 28:2? Why is it that jesus resurrection was recorded by the twelves and some people even strived to witness this but the incident of numbers of saints saw by many people didnt have a record to prove it?

Theologically Jesus had to be the first person resurrected but who are this people that came before Jesus? Most modern scholars thus do not consider these events to be historical. The story is a "pure novelistic motifs. These events make more theological than historical sense and the strength of this part of the narrative is "atmosphere, not details."


with you holding to that bible story with this your fallacy hiding under pastors life not documented which is pure lie makes the bible story more like "city-legend"


like mazaje said, the bible is just handful fable

Just cant believe that most christians here cant reason with the bible. Yet they will accuse Atheist that they lack understanding of the bible. This is what im expecting from christians to quote. A prophecy of Isaiah

Isaiah
Chapter 26 verse 19-21
19 But your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise; awake and sing, you who lie in the dust. For your dew is a dew of light, and the land of shades gives birth.
20 Go, my people, enter your chambers, and close your doors behind you; Hide yourselves for a brief moment, until thewrath is past.
21 See, the LORD goes forth from his place, to punish the wickedness of the earth's inhabitants; The earth will reveal the blood upon her, and no longer conceal her slain.


----That could mean to be happy to be dead, because zombies will rise and cover the earth----


I see the reason the likes of mazaje and Delafruita called the stories in the bible as fables.

By relating this bible story with our tradition, it seem that the author of that verse stole the story from somewhere which is not primarily jewish tradition. It either they do to formulate fulfilment of Isaiah prophecy or make Jesus death more horrible.

In yoruba, there is a term known as Egungun.

According to wikipedia:

It the broadest sense of the word, Egungun refers to all types of masquerades or any masked, costumed figure. [ 1 ] This same word, however, when used in its more specific, common sense, refers to the Yoruba masquerades connected with ancestor worship.
Function [ edit ]
Amongst the Yoruba , the annual ceremonies in honor of the dead serve as a means of assuring their ancestors a place among the living. They believe the ancestors have the responsibility to compel the living to uphold the ethical standards of the past generations of their clan, town or family. The Egungun is celebratedin festivals, known as Odun Egungun , and in family ritual through the masquerade custom.
In family situations, a family elder known either formally or informally as "Alagba" presides over ancestral rites. He may or may not be initiated into the local Egungun society. In matters that deal with whole communities, Egungun priests and initiates who are trained in ancestral communication, ancestral elevation and funerary rites are assigned to invoke and bring out the ancestors. They wear elaborate costumes in masquerade. Through drumming and dance, the Egungun robed performers are believed to become possessed of the spirits of the ancestors, as manifested as a single entity.

The point I want to bring out here is that, are this formation of dead saints from Yoruba and was formulated by the first church (catholic) which equals what we today called HALLOWEEN?

Halloween is used to honour dead saints which original grows from a tradition is Africa that have existed thousands of years before christianity emerge.

In my home town here, people still celebrates this egungun, they keep food and money outside and custom their houses for the dead family member to eat when sleep when they are visited. But some Jewish slaves Idolized this. They called it works of the devil and demonic. Meanwhile, their Halloween was stolen from Africa.


Matthew 27:53 is an urban legend from Africa. Such fable didn't exist in Jew or Israel but only in Africa. There Halloween was framed to mimic African ancestral belief but it remains mythical. That verse is pure work of some men that want to delude folks.

The whole bible, Christian faith and doctrine is a big hoax!!!!

can you calm down? and reduce the words? little by little? Fortunately, you're reasoning along the exact line i hoped. From your post, it seems you didn't have idea or awareness of most of those events. Yet they happened, right in your country, in the presence of many thousands of people, for each preacher mentioned. And there is internet and free to air tv and other media, yet you were not aware, neither were they recorded on the front page of any popular website or news media. The only source that we have for these things that happened just last month are the churches and their members! No reputable historian(whatever that means). What will we say in fifty years time, that the event didn't happen because only the church files are saying it happened?
Even if all the 66 books of the bible recorded this resurrection account, you'll still find an excuse not to believe.

Image123: can you calm down? and reduce the words? little by little? Fortunately, you're reasoning along the exact line i hoped. From your post, it seems you didn't have idea or awareness of most of those events. Yet they happened, right in your country, in the presence of many thousands of people, for each preacher mentioned. And there is internet and free to air tv and other media, yet you were not aware, neither were they recorded on the front page of any popular website or news media. The only source that we have for these things that happened just last month are the churches and their members! No reputable historian(whatever that means). What will we say in fifty years time, that the event didn't happen because only the church files are saying it happened?
Even if all the 66 books of the bible recorded this resurrection account, you'll still find an excuse not to believe.

You still didn't get my point. What this pastors are preaching is what we hear on daily basis which are heaven, faith, joy, prosperity, etc. So I or any historian record cant record mere repetition of things. But that does not stop this stuff not to be documented either with the church or it members.

A very good example was when I was a christian, I will write in detail every sermon I heard in the church. I also have the sunday school book and text written by my pastor. This make no difference cuz thats what I hear everyday.

But here, we are talking about a momentous event. When I experienced the first eclipse was recorded. It was unique and amazing. Everybody witnessed it including me. And the historian dealing with geography will have this documented for future reference. The same applied to the dead saints. They were not mere revelation but occured which people see with their own eye. Another example was the civil war in Nigeria. It was bloody and was a great experience for those that witnessed it. Are they not recorded? Are there not document from historian about it? And do you really want historian to keep record of what and time I eat? Nope, but they do if I eat a whole elephant on my own. Cuz it special and momentous. How can such thing not recorded about the dead saints walking in the street of jerusalem? How can something a lot of people experienced which is very important and amazing experience not recorded by the witness or historian of those days? It not just possible or it was some men work to make the scripture in volume.

You want me to believe in the 66 books without evidence to prove them? Nope

Though I support some of the stories and teaching therein. Like the book of proverb and some Jesus teachings. Nothing more, nothing less

you should calm down i advice. What makes the Matthew event very important, and these pastors i mentioned their events unimportant? Do you know that uncountable miracles happened in these pastors events?

Image123: you should calm down i advice. What makes the Matthew event very important, and these pastors i mentioned their events unimportant? Do you know that uncountable miracles happened in these pastors events?

The walking dead according to matthew is more important than any staged miracle we have on tv today from pastors. There are different type of history ranging from personal history, family history, to national history, and to world history. An event is said to be important base on the impact it had on the way people lived, worked or thinking. Either way it change the way people live, work and think.

The matthew walking dead is an event that is the first of it's kind to the jewish nation which many dead saints were seen in jerusalem (a town more than 10,000 people). There is no record of where mass resurrection happened in Jewish nation so if this really happens, it will make a big history. The Matthew event is also momentous only if the event lead to a new way of thinking or new ideas. The people in Jerusalem will have a fresh thinking about resurrection and will be amazed to have their old dead relative back amidst them. This incident if really happens can postulate new mentality and theory on souls cuz they are experienced.

The time it takes to be resolved or to end, the number of people involved and the range in where is happened can generally give some ideas on whether it will be remembered or not.


Unlike this common pastors miracles which are mostly staged, most of the testimonies giving to miracle in churches are mere hear-say. And repetition is very common. Most of those stuff they claimed to be miracle are lies or naturally healings. A man will come on stage and tell the world he had headache. After the pastor's prayer, the headache was healed. This happens naturally. Poor business change testimony can be revert by business solution. A man had accident and was not dead, it happens naturally. A woman give birth to birth to a baby after ten years of marriad can be medical problem. A man having some medical problem took some drugs and surgery but the thing didnt work but after prayer, he was healed, this are fake stuffs. A man with HIV was healed. Why not a man amputee? That miracle cant be staged. Why not a man that was heal of cancer? Why not a child paralyzed healed? If something like this happen, it will make history.


I remember the news about Adeboye driving a car without fuel from Ore to Lagos, even this incident are not proven to be right but it makes world attention. If this really happen and tested, then Adeboye will be superman. He will make history and 50 years later, he will be remembered.



All through, as dead saint is momentus event as lot of people were aware and witnessed the incident of dead relatives coming home. But no historical record to actualize this event which makes it fable. Matthew was not the only disciple that wrote the gospel. His mates would have witnessed this incident too but non of them record it despite it importance to the society. This is fable indeed

please calm down and reduce the length of your replies/answers, they are quite greasy.
So how important exactly was this Matthew miracle you mentioned. You're the first person I've seen attach this much importance to it. Tell me the significance, and the reason why you feel that all the pastors i mentioned and all the miracle performed at their events in the last three months were stage managed?