It is so easy to believe anything that is purported to come from Allah/God or what have you since most of them are shrewd in mysteries and often time we are born into religion due to accidental of Birth. A baby born in Saudi Arabia will be a moslem and a child born to a Jewish family will be a practicing Jewish and anybody born by a Christian family will be saying Jesus is LORD.

What amusing me most in my reading is that of Islam and the moslem world and Christianity. The last book of the bible was written 100AD by Apostle John on the Island of Patmos. But the revelation of Prophet Mohammed (SAW)six hundreds and thirty years after is trying to invalidate and subjugate history. But to my surprise Alquran tried all means to rewrite the birth and death of Jesus what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have written 500 years earlier. Also the death of resurrection of Jesus that was witnessed and executed by Roman soldiers and signed by Pontus Pilate is being rewritten. As if Jesus was not crucified. It is like a son trying to rewrite his father's history.

I know many of Muslim will not embrace logic and evidence of history when it come to religion cause nobody want to believe he is wrong when it come to religion especially trangeneration inherited faith. But to a logical mind you will see so many truth subjugated by Alquran. Why will Qur'an retell the stroy of Abrahm, Moses, David that has being completed 5000 years in the Jews Torah.

Guy the bible has, over the centuries, suffered so many additions, interpolations, revisions, editions as to render it almost impossible to sift the lies from the truths. Qur'an came to put the record straight. hope that answers your question

Actually, Islam embraces logic and reasoning. The question is : Do you?

Who are mathew, mark , Luke and John? Do you know that none of the four gospels was written by a companion of Jesus (peace be upon him), it gets worse, we do not even know the true names of these authors.

Mathew plagarised mark's work. Do you know the whole crucifixion story was a later addition to Mark, the oldest book. The oldest manuscripts did not have such.

These are not just random sayings, this is the concensus of bible scholars today. google is your friend.

If I present a book to you, telling you that all accounts are true in it, and you ask, were the writers there? I say no. . Does anyone know the writers? I say no. ..But I insist that it is absolute truth. How seriously would you take me?

As muslims, we believe in revelation just like all jews and Christians, so the question to ask is not the year it was revealed, the question is, whether it is truly revelation. If it is truly revelation, the time is irrelevant as God is aware of everything.

The Quran says that it confirms what is true of previous revelations, it claims to be beyond the productive capacity of a human being. In fact, it presents a challenge, it says, if you are in doubt, produce a chapter like it. For over 1400 years, no one has met this challenge. The shortest chapter has 3 verses only.

This challenge is about the structural features of the arabic language not its aesthetic value. Check out my thread, THE AMAZING QURAN to get a clue.

Once we believe that quran is revelation, belief in its accounts of history is easy.

^^^Please is there proof that the disciples of Jesus were not involved in the writing of the Gospels?
Also what message is there of Jesus apart from the one in the Quran that validates what the Quran says about Jesus?

^ I am on my phone but google is your friend, read about the authorship of the gospels and come back. It is common knowledge in scholarly circles.

^^^Mark was an accomplice of Peter and penned down words that he must have gotten from Peter and other eye witnesses.The messages of others does not differ from that of Mark.
What google shows is there are arguments for and against which will probably be till the end of time.
No one group can claim to be perfect.
Incidentally,the Quran has it's own account which is different from that of the Jews and Christians.
At the end of the day,it's still a question of my own side is true without proof(beyond just words written by men who are no more alive).

So we agree, none of the gospels was written by a companion, the most you have are third party accounts.

There is proof, I claim that the quran is beyond the productive ability of a man which only points to a divine origin. I have written threads that explore a few of the evidences.

Please search for : THE AMAZING QURAN SEASON 1

Do you accept Islam/Christianity as a religious world view because you have your birth through one of the adherent of the religion? If yes do you bother to apply logic, history to your believe or you just accept the revelation hook line and sinker. Think if all these is true people should be able to put religion aside. And do a personal comparative study of assertion of different religion, in terms of their history, beliefs, revelation, to determine if there faith is anything to hold on to.

Condemning Mattew, Mark, Luke and John as a work of impostor is not only unsound logically. World history accept their work, the Roman history as not invalidated their work. Pontus pilate as governor is recorded in roman history, Herod is recorded in roman history, destruction of Jerusalem by General Titus in AD 70 is recorded in Roman history. Massada slaughter is recorded in roman history book. All theses are verifiable. But people tend to look at truth with the googgle of preconceived idea and anything that does not align with their prejudice is consider as not sound logically.

I will refer you guys to learned historian especially European history that covers roman history and Persia history and stop being prejudiced by religion

You are still missing the point. Different churches up till today still accept and reject certain books. The ebonite christians of the past only accepted mathew, the ethiopian church have the books they accept. All I have said of the gospels, is from bible scholarship. I have not added any thing. These are people who have studied the book.

They might have many truths and half truths but most of it is unverifiable. Plus we have later additions to the book, a problem that led to the revised standard versions .

I am a muslim because I have studied the quran indepth and I have been blown away by it. Not just because I was born into it. We not only have faith, we have proof.

tbaba1234:

There is proof, I claim that the quran is beyond the productive ability of a man which only points to a divine origin. I

Pls tell me of JUST a single knowledge or a single thing written inside the koran that could not be written by men that lived during the period it was written?. . .Not men that live now but men that lived then. Just a single thing that men that lived at that time. . .If you talk about knowledge of the world and any system that men have created, there are much better books that will educate you about the world and its systems much more than the Koran. . Lets take economics, medical sciences, geography, chemistry, law, engineering, philosophy, sociology, physics, government,biology, religion etc. . .Take any field. . .There are much better books that have educated mankind and shed much more light and knowledge than the Koran so why do you keep repeating this?. . .Tell me just a single thing that is written inside the Koran that NO human has explained much better. . .Is it the embroyology?. . Mordern science has explained it much better than the Koran can ever explain it. . .What exactly is it in the Koran that humans have not explaied in greater details and much better than the Koran?. . .Pls tell me?

All this ranting.

The quran in the very structure of the language is a miracle, the word choice, its sequence, the sounds and the images. It is incredible stuff.

Now, what is the definition of a miracle? It is an act of impossibility, something that defies a naturalistic explanation. The quran is not a science text book, it is a book of signs. If the quran makes a statement that could not possibly have been known at the time of revelation, it defies a natural explanation since the knowledge and the equipment needed were not available. Science gives us a detailed explanation which is great. In fact, we go the science takes us.

I have no problems with science but you have to learn to put things in their place.What religion does is to answer the bigger questin of : WHY?

Science or philosophy can not answer that question definately because it lies in the unseen.

I am. Not here to verify or relegate any book or to sing praise anyone. But my take is that people put religion aside and do an indepth study of what they believe. As a moslem you are required to go to Quranic school to learn Alquran in Arabic even from a tender age and this you do before your teens year. Thereafter you now go and learn the meaning meaning of what you have memorized. Often time majority don't even know the meaning of Alfatia. It will be very difficult for you to see with an independent mind because your mind has being formated using computer language.

Like the response of mazaje there so many religion that claimed revelation Buddha claim revelation, Taoist claimed revelation, Induism claim revelation and when you are born into any of these world religious few your mind is preprogrammed. To believe the religion. Even in Islam the day you give birth to child you carry the boy up and you south his name to his ear and recite some Quranic verses to the ear.

Kindly read roman history before you make your conclusion based on the sanctity of bible or Alquran, because it always amused me when I see people who clung to Alquran and hadits and perpetrate evils based on what they read from such hadits and Alquran. Take for example in one of the hadits girl child first menstruation is allowed in her father's house and the second one must be in the husband house. That is why girls child of 9 years was given to the prophet Mohammed (SLS) to wife and the prophet deflower such sibling. This practice is still going on in the northern Nigeria till today that is why they have the highest cases of vagina vestibular. And you call that a revelation from heaven.

tbaba1234: So we agree, none of the gospels was written by a companion, the most you have are third party accounts.

There is proof, I claim that the quran is beyond the productive ability of a man which only points to a divine origin. I have written threads that explore a few of the evidences.

Please search for : THE AMAZING QURAN SEASON 1

Muhammed was illiterate and those who wrote the quran were third parties too.You can claim he dictated to them but that still makes them third parties.We also know human error where you can dictate something to someone and he writes something different.
About the quran being beyond human mind,I'm sure if you will be honest with yourself there are other books written with contents beyond human reasoning.

I'm showing you that the criterion u use to fault the Bible or any other book also faults the Quran.

benzion72:
I am. Not here to verify or relegate any book or to sing praise anyone. But my take is that people put religion aside and do an indepth study of what they believe. As a moslem you are required to go to Quranic school to learn Alquran in Arabic even from a tender age and this you do before your teens year. Thereafter you now go and learn the meaning meaning of what you have memorized. Often time majority don't even know the meaning of Alfatia. It will be very difficult for you to see with an independent mind because your mind has being formated using computer language.

Like the response of mazaje there so many religion that claimed revelation Buddha claim revelation, Taoist claimed revelation, Induism claim revelation and when you are born into any of these world religious few your mind is preprogrammed. To believe the religion. Even in Islam the day you give birth to child you carry the boy up and you south his name to his ear and recite some Quranic verses to the ear.

Kindly read roman history before you make your conclusion based on the sanctity of bible or Alquran, because it always amused me when I see people who clung to Alquran and hadits and perpetrate evils based on what they read from such hadits and Alquran. Take for example in one of the hadits girl child first menstruation is allowed in her father's house and the second one must be in the husband house. That is why girls child of 9 years was given to the prophet Mohammed (SLS) to wife and the prophet deflower such sibling. This practice is still going on in the northern Nigeria till today that is why they have the highest cases of vagina vestibular. And you call that a revelation from heaven.

If you definitely read history about Roman, you don't need to come out here and saying about Aisha marriage, you should have read it from their history if surely you want to follow their history.

Roman Emperor Justinian was the first one to set the age of marriage for females at 12 years and 14 for males. After the advent of Christianity in Europe, such a law was no longer followed. Mary Stewart married Henry VIII when she was only six. Early marriages were predominant in some Eastern countries and are still carried out in places like India.

Islam does not specify a certain minimal age for marriage; rather, it placed a certain age for shouldering religious obligations in general. This age is the age of puberty, i.e by natural sign (the ability to ejaculate semen for a boy and menstruation for a girl)


Islam Doesnt support early marriages, and here's why:

1) The Holy Quran ties marriage to adulthood and physical as well as mental maturity:

[4:6] Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence: But all-sufficient is God in taking account.

2) The Quran says that marriage is a solemn covenant, which both husband and wife make together :

[4:21] And how could ye take it when ye have gone in unto each other, and they have Taken from you a solemn covenant?

So if we combine 1 and 2, we get this: The Holy Quran says that the "age of marriage" is the age when people is able to make a solemn covenant, not ANY age, but the age where you can make sound judgement. Also:

1) The Quran in Sura Talaaq Ayat no :4 which reads:

[65:4] Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear God, He will make their path easy.

This Ayat is actually referring to women who even though has passed puberty, still dont have their menses or/and women who at one point did have menses but due to psychological or physiological reasons, have stopped menstruating before menopause.

About the Prophet (saw) consummated his marriage with Aisha, 1500 years ago, it must have been something that was acceptable to all and sundry which explains why there was no resistance to his decision to marry the girl. I assure you that if it was wrong then to marry young girls, Mohammad (saw) would not have done so. Is it not a wonder that his adversaries then never mentioned their disgust for his actions? In fact, they were quick to point to other things to attack the prophet except his marriage to Aisha. It means that the society then allowed it.

thorpido: Muhammed was illiterate and those who wrote the quran were third parties too.You can claim he dictated to them but that still makes them third parties.We also know human error where you can dictate something to someone and he writes something different.
About the quran being beyond human mind,I'm sure if you will be honest with yourself there are other books written with contents beyond human reasoning.

I'm showing you that the criterion u use to fault the Bible or any other book also faults the Quran.

You can't compare the written of Quran to any other Book like Bible.

The Qur‘an is Allah‘s Word which Jibril (Gabriel, peace be upon him) received from Allah and recited to Muhammad (saw), who in turn listened and learned it carefully from Jibril exactly as spoken by Allah. Moreover, Allah caused Muhammad (saw) to memorize it by heart.

Allah says:
"Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran, O Muhammad to make haste therewith.   It is for Us to collect it and to give you (O Muhammad saw) the ability to recite it (the Qur‘an).   And when We have recited it to you [O Muhammad] through Jibril (Gabriel)], then follow its (the Qur‘an‘s) recital.   Then it is for Us (Allah) to make it clear (to you)." [Surah Al Qiyamah 75: 16-19].

Also Allah says: "Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur‘an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)." [Surah Al-Hijr, 15: 9].

Accordingly, Allah safeguarded the Qur‘an for Muslims. The Qur‘an was, therefore, transmitted from the Prophet (peace be upon him) to his Companions, who committed it to memory and writing; who in turn transmitted it to future generations fresh and pure, without any distortion or interpolation in it


PLEASE TELL ME,HOW WAS THE BIBLE COMPILED OR WRITTEN?

ayenny02:
You can't compare the written of Quran to any other Book like Bible.

The Qur‘an is Allah‘s Word which Jibril (Gabriel, peace be upon him) received from Allah and recited to Muhammad (saw), who in turn listened and learned it carefully from Jibril exactly as spoken by Allah. Moreover, Allah caused Muhammad (saw) to memorize it by heart.

Allah says:
"Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran, O Muhammad to make haste therewith.   It is for Us to collect it and to give you (O Muhammad saw) the ability to recite it (the Qur‘an).   And when We have recited it to you [O Muhammad] through Jibril (Gabriel)], then follow its (the Qur‘an‘s) recital.   Then it is for Us (Allah) to make it clear (to you)." [Surah Al Qiyamah 75: 16-19].

Also Allah says: "Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur‘an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)." [Surah Al-Hijr, 15: 9].

Accordingly, Allah safeguarded the Qur‘an for Muslims. The Qur‘an was, therefore, transmitted from the Prophet (peace be upon him) to his Companions, who committed it to memory and writing; who in turn transmitted it to future generations fresh and pure, without any distortion or interpolation in it


PLEASE TELL ME,HOW WAS THE BIBLE COMPILED OR WRITTEN?

The verses you quoted above were reported.If I told you God told me to always set my alarm for 12am and pray at that time and I told you I memorised it and it is true,can u prove to me it wasn't true?
This message of the quran was passed down and you only accept it but you don't have a proof apart from the fact that you can only tell me you believe it.The fact that it has been passed on for generations does not make it proof.
In essence,it is still a third party message.How then do you fault other messages when the message of the quran is still third party message.You were not there!

thorpido: The verses you quoted above were reported.If I told you God told me to always set my alarm for 12am and pray at that time and I told you I memorised it and it is true,can u prove to me it wasn't true?
This message of the quran was passed down and you only accept it but you don't have a proof apart from the fact that you can only tell me you believe it.The fact that it has been passed on for generations does not make it proof.
In essence,it is still a third party message.How then do you fault other messages when the message of the quran is still third party message.You were not there!

Who reported the verses?

If God tells you anything, I will not believe u becos ur Bible said you don't see God and hear his voice.

You guys are still saying the same thing. How do you call a warp history revelation. Half of what is in Alquran is already in the Bible, both old and new testament are what has happened hundreds of years before the revelation of Prophet Mohammed (SAW). Abraham was here, David was here all there history has being documented. And somebody after so many years now came up with another revelaton and what is in your new revelation is not out of this world, It is just a perverted history.

If your own revelation does not contain bible character and history fine. Why will Arabia thousand of kilometers explain what happen in Gallile. Why will you call my life story a revelation to you. And when you are telling it you are saying rubbish. Paul said to the Galatians if anybody preach any Jesus to you except the one he has preached the person should be anathema (accursed).

Am not a Christian apologetics but a thinker

tbaba1234: All this ranting.

The quran in the very structure of the language is a miracle, the word choice, its sequence, the sounds and the images. It is incredible stuff.

Now, what is the definition of a miracle? It is an act of impossibility, something that defies a naturalistic explanation. The quran is not a science text book, it is a book of signs. If the quran makes a statement that could not possibly have been known at the time of revelation, it defies a natural explanation since the knowledge and the equipment needed were not available. Science gives us a detailed explanation which is great. In fact, we go the science takes us.

I have no problems with science but you have to learn to put things in their place.What religion does is to answer the bigger questin of : WHY?

Science or philosophy can not answer that question definately because it lies in the unseen.

What about others that have made statements long before the Koran and after it that could not possibly have been known during the times those statements were made?. . . .Does that also defy natural explanation?. . .What about discoveries that are made today that have never been made before, do they also defy natural explanations?. . .Most of what we know or have discovered about the earth, humans, animals and the universe around us, we discovered them OUTSIDE the Koran. . .Think about any scientific knowledge that has advanced humanity as a whole, it was never discovered in the Koran, it was discovered outside it. . .I repeat there is nothing inside the Koran that could not have been written by men that lived at that time. . .So the language and choice of words used in the Koran and miracles, eh?. . .The Koran reads like any other book and there is nothing special about it compared to other religious text.

ayenny02:
You can't compare the written of Quran to any other Book like Bible.

The Qur‘an is Allah‘s Word which Jibril (Gabriel, peace be upon him) received from Allah and recited to Muhammad (saw), who in turn listened and learned it carefully from Jibril exactly as spoken by Allah. Moreover, Allah caused Muhammad (saw) to memorize it by heart.

Allah says:
"Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran, O Muhammad to make haste therewith.   It is for Us to collect it and to give you (O Muhammad saw) the ability to recite it (the Qur‘an).   And when We have recited it to you [O Muhammad] through Jibril (Gabriel)], then follow its (the Qur‘an‘s) recital.   Then it is for Us (Allah) to make it clear (to you)." [Surah Al Qiyamah 75: 16-19].

Also Allah says: "Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur‘an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)." [Surah Al-Hijr, 15: 9].

Accordingly, Allah safeguarded the Qur‘an for Muslims. The Qur‘an was, therefore, transmitted from the Prophet (peace be upon him) to his Companions, who committed it to memory and writing; who in turn transmitted it to future generations fresh and pure, without any distortion or interpolation in it


PLEASE TELL ME,HOW WAS THE BIBLE COMPILED OR WRITTEN?

How was the Koran complied and written?. . .The part in bold is the muslim claim. . .Claims are not facts or truths. . .The Koran as we know it today came years after the death of the prophet.

Thaba and co WELL DONE! (In deep baritone voice) you guys delivered superb logic in rendering this thread dead on arrival!

My verdict: the op suffered too many potholes ignoring the question of who actually wrote the bible! In any court, the lack of persons to pin point the bible's authorship would immediately render it, inadmissible thereby rendering the evidence useless, this fact well placed by my learned collegues, barrister thaba further juxtapose by counsellor ayenny, made the case brought by counsellor B. DOA. Legal opinion is as follows; that you have two documents, one written by faceless individuals and the other other facefull individuals, in law the weighty evidence is clearly the book written by facefull individuals, as it serve as prima Faci evidence that such individuals can be assessed, their motives, integrity etc can be cross examined! It is with this in mind, we rule that while the bible has age by its side, it does not have a a clear attributable author, in view of the fact that there are several books similar to it making contradictory claims, what becomes the motive of singling out its claims? Or the historical fact that it was simply patched together? . . . 6 hours later . . . It is with this cogent points that we conclude that the defense provided a superb rebuttal to the op! Hence awards victory to the defense headed by lead counsellor thaba ably supportted by counsellor ayenny!

Court!

I have said earlier that this is not about Bible or Christianity but fact of history and pure logic from my personal reading. Alquran refute virgin birth, Alquran refute death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But this are historical facts verifiable by both the Bible and Roman history. How come a revelation to Prophet Mohammed (SAW)in the Alquran is saying something contrary to a world known record. That is my point of argument which non of the Moslem apologetics here refuse to see.

mazaje:

What about others that have made statements long before the Koran and after it that could not possibly have been known during the times those statements were made?. . . .Does that also defy natural explanation?. . .What about discoveries that are made today that have never been made before, do they also defy natural explanations?. . .Most of what we know or have discovered about the earth, humans, animals and the universe around us, we discovered them OUTSIDE the Koran. . .Think about any scientific knowledge that has advanced humanity as a whole, it was never discovered in the Koran, it was discovered outside it. . .I repeat there is nothing inside the Koran that could not have been written by men that lived at that time. . .So the language and choice of words used in the Koran and miracles, eh?. . .The Koran reads like any other book and there is nothing special about it compared to other religious text.

You haven't read the quran, trust me. Maybe you have read a translation but you haven't read the book.The quran compared to its translation is like comparing a ps3 to ludo. A world of difference.

tbaba1234:

You haven't read the quran, trust me. Maybe you have read a translation but you haven't read the book.The quran compared to its translation is like comparing a ps3 to ludo. A world of difference.

I don't know what to make of this. . .Why should the Koran be read in arabic to have true meaning?. . .Even if read in Arabic it still isn't be best book to be written and there is nothing insie that you can point to that could not be written by humans, humans have written better books that explain the world around us and other systems much better than the Koran. . .

mazaje:

I don't know what to make of this. . .Why should the Koran be read in arabic to have true meaning?. . .Even if read in Arabic it still isn't be best book to be written and there is nothing insie that you can point to that could not be written by humans, humans have written better books that explain the world around us and other systems much better than the Koran. . .

"Between our hands, there is a book which is unique in its authenticity and faultless, undoubted about its correctness as it is first revealed,

 This book is the Qur'an." Michel Heart (American researcher) in his well known book "Top 100"

 
1.    ‪‬The Qur'an is Unique.

Vone Hammer (orientalist) in the preface of his translation of the Qur'an says:

"Qur'an is not only the constitution of Islam; it is the peak of the Arabic eloquence. Its amazing diction witnesses that it is a revelation from God and that these words can never be from a human source. Mohammed has spread his power by the miracle of eloquence."

 
Why the Qur'an is Unique?

Only One Version – Arabic: There are no different versions of the Qur'an in the Arabic language, only different translations, but none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic version.

Memorized by Millions – Entirely: An important thing in the Qur'an is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Recitation" just as it came to Prophet Mohammad, from the Almighty God (Allah) through the Angel Gabriel, and was learned and memorized by his companions and passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over ten millions Muslims who have committed the entire Qur'an to memory.

This is not a small feat. How many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through many generations in its original language, without a single change?

Each Muslim Has "Qur'an" Memorized: All Muslims have memorized a portion of the Qur'an in the Arabic language, Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Qur'an from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Qur'an, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion Muslims worldwide and only about 15% are Arab, all the rest are learning the Qur'an in Arabic as a second language.

Qur'an Challenges Readers: The Qur'an makes the clear challenge. If you are in doubt about it, then bring a book like it, bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate its beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Qur'an says:

God said in Quran“Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’” (Quran 17:88)


ANOTHER VERSES
Almighty says:’’And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our  servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If  there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.’’ (Al-Baqara –the Cow-: 23-24)


ANOTHER VERSE
“Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.” (Quran 11:13)


ANOTHER VERSE
“And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” (Quran 2:23)

ALSO ANOTHER ONE
God says: "We have without doubt, sent down the message and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption.)" (15:9

This thread is really fun, I tell you my life story, 500yrs later, someone several hundreds of kilometers then said the story I said of my life isn't right, he further goes on to say that he has the true revelation of my life story given to him by a deity. He further tells me that I was confused of my facts, wow, really amazing, gentlemen and ladies, common, what are we saying

ayenny02:

"Between our hands, there is a book which is unique in its authenticity and faultless, undoubted about its correctness as it is first revealed,

 This book is the Qur'an." Michel Heart (American researcher) in his well known book "Top 100"

 
1.    ‪‬The Qur'an is Unique.

Vone Hammer (orientalist) in the preface of his translation of the Qur'an says:

"Qur'an is not only the constitution of Islam; it is the peak of the Arabic eloquence. Its amazing diction witnesses that it is a revelation from God and that these words can never be from a human source. Mohammed has spread his power by the miracle of eloquence."

 
Why the Qur'an is Unique?

Only One Version – Arabic: There are no different versions of the Qur'an in the Arabic language, only different translations, but none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic version.

Memorized by Millions – Entirely: An important thing in the Qur'an is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Recitation" just as it came to Prophet Mohammad, from the Almighty God (Allah) through the Angel Gabriel, and was learned and memorized by his companions and passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over ten millions Muslims who have committed the entire Qur'an to memory.

This is not a small feat. How many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through many generations in its original language, without a single change?

Each Muslim Has "Qur'an" Memorized: All Muslims have memorized a portion of the Qur'an in the Arabic language, Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Qur'an from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Qur'an, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion Muslims worldwide and only about 15% are Arab, all the rest are learning the Qur'an in Arabic as a second language.

Qur'an Challenges Readers: The Qur'an makes the clear challenge. If you are in doubt about it, then bring a book like it, bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate its beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Qur'an says:

God said in Quran“Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’” (Quran 17:88)


ANOTHER VERSES
Almighty says:’’And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our  servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If  there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.’’ (Al-Baqara –the Cow-: 23-24)


ANOTHER VERSE
“Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.” (Quran 11:13)


ANOTHER VERSE
“And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” (Quran 2:23)

ALSO ANOTHER ONE
God says: "We have without doubt, sent down the message and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption.)" (15:9

You gave the opinion of a few individuals who happen to be converted muslims and the went ahead by begging the question. . . .The Koran is not a special book, it does not have a divinve origin and reads like any other book, if the Koran is so special when then is it that it does not appeal to many who read it even in the original arabic, many people learn arabic just so that they can get a good grasp of the Koran. I said many books have been written that are better than the Koran. Bring one thing written inside the Koran that is not better explained in other books, just one. . .

mazaje:

You gave the opinion of a few individuals who happen to be converted muslims and the went ahead by begging the question. . . .The Koran is not a special book, it does not have a divinve origin and reads like any other book, if the Koran is so special when then is it that it does not appeal to many who read it even in the original arabic, many people learn arabic just so that they can get a good grasp of the Koran. I said many books have been written that are better than the Koran. Bring one thing written inside the Koran that is not better explained in other books, just one. . .

Oya, tell us the story of Khidr. Watch as he shifts the goal post in response.

maclatunji:

Oya, tell us the story of Khidr. Watch as he shifts the goal post in response.

I sent u a mail, did u get it?
The dude has been hiding all my post

CAN WE COMPARE THESE BELOW WITH THE QURAN

The New Testament was written under the influence of Paul, the four Gospel writers were Gentile converts to Pauline Christianity. Hence, there is nothing Jewish about the New Testament, it was solely written for Pauline Christians whose background was pagan.

The Hebrew Scriptures of the Nazarenes and Ebionites were destroyed by the Pauline Church. The original sayings of Jesus were lost forever. The New Testament today exists in Greek, and not Hebrew or Aramaic, the spoken tongues of Jesus.

The Gospel of Matthew seems to be the “most Jewish” book in the New Testament, 

Luke was a Gentile and not eye-witness

Mark was Barnabas’s nephew and not eye-witness

John was martyred decades before the Gospel (bearing his name) was even written.

Nevertheless, the four Gospels are NOT mentioned by name before the year 190 CE. We have scholarly quotations to back this claim.

Unfortunately, the sources we have on Jesus are very scarce and scanty, Ignatius (died 110 CE) records the baptism of Jesus but he fails to record any thing else.

The Apostolic Church Fathers never mention the miracles in the Gospels; they fail to mention the four Gospels by name. The story of the “resurrection” (as told in the Gospels) was fabricated later because they fail to record it. The seven epistles of Ignatius fall into the category of silence, they speak nothing about Jesus.

Paul has written his own personal account of the “resurrection” which contradicts the Gospels. In conclusion, the Gospels are fabricated because Philo Judaeus and many other historians fail to mention their supernatural events.

The New Testament makes it clear that nobody witnessed the “resurrection”, the disciples never witnessed the “resurrection”, they all ‘forsook him and fled’ at Gethsemane.

CAN WE COMPARE THESE TO THE WRITTEN OF QURAN WHERE THE QURAN REVEALED FROM GOD TO THE PROPHET THROUGH ANGEL JIBRIL TO THE COMPANIONS OF THE PROPHET THAT THEY MEMORISED THE WHOLE QURAN IN LIFE OF THE PROPHET.

mazaje:

You gave the opinion of a few individuals who happen to be converted muslims and the went ahead by begging the question.

[Why not Bring ur own opinion to support ur claim]

mazaje:

The Koran is not a special book, it does not have a divinve origin and reads like any other book, if the Koran is so special when then is it that it does not appeal to many who read it even in the original arabic, many people learn arabic just so that they can get a good grasp of the Koran.

[“And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” (Quran 2:23]

mazaje:

I said many books have been written that are better than the Koran. Bring one thing written inside the Koran that is not better explained in other books, just one. . .

How many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through many generations in its original language, without a single change?

ayenny02:
CAN WE COMPARE THESE TO THE WRITTEN OF QURAN WHERE THE QURAN REVEALED FROM GOD TO THE PROPHET THROUGH ANGEL JIBRIL TO THE COMPANIONS OF THE PROPHET THAT THEY MEMORISED THE WHOLE QURAN IN LIFE OF THE PROPHET.

This is the islamic narrative, all the stories of the Koran were borrowed from the jews and the christians. . .What are the names of the companions of the propehts that memoried the koran?. . .The Koran as we know it was not even complied during the life time of the prophet meaning it was complied later, no one actually knows who wrote what and when. We just have a narrative that says the Koran was handed down from by an angle to Mohammed and that story has been going on amongst muslim circles for thousands of years unchallenged. Hope you know the bible was actrually like that until when people started challenging it then we actually knew that Moses did not write the first 5 books ascribed to him and that most of the authours of the bible are actually unknown.

The Koran has NEVER been reviewed and criticized academically like the bible. Any body that tries to criticize it is killed. The few muslim scholars that left Islam and tried to criticize the authourship of the Koran where killed. Example is Turan Dursun a Turkish islamic scholar and ex-mufti who was murdered in 1990 for questioning the authorship of the Koran and how it came about.

If the Koran was open to critical evaluation as the bible is, the idea of an infallible Koran would not even be an issue. But muslims will not allow that, any body that tries it will be killed or attacked. So critics just allow muslims to have a field day and enjoy propagating their baised stories uncontested.