Ihedinobi:

All the more reason for me to do it first and knock off any and all competitors.




Where do I derive such a responsibility?

hi last night i followed this thread until my battery went down, the way you, strik, anony pointed the out their flaws of evolving morality was outstanding. It was fun.

manmustwac: You came from dust you return to dust

This means u believe u came from something, in this case dust, how did the dust come about?

hisblud: hi last night i followed this thread until my battery went down, the way you, strik, anony pointed the out their flaws of evolving morality was outstanding. It was fun.

My brother, every argument that is built on the exclusion of God is fundamentally weak.

nnekaregy: This means u believe u came from something, in this case dust, how did the dust come about?

I don't know. But dust has been around for billions of years

nnekaregy: This means u believe u came from something, in this case dust, how did the dust come about?

Okay, we yield, the dust came from God, now tell me where did God came from?

Now, don't tell me he has always existed and doesn't require a Creator, cos you might as well tell me the dust has always existed and also doesnt require a Creator.

Ihedinobi:

My brother, every argument that is built on the exclusion of God is fundamentally weak.

It's because your brain has been configured by your religious training to turn a blind eye to sound and logical arguments against your religion/christianity, hence you falsely see them as weak arguments.

@cyrexx:
millions of people have died over the course of human history, there is no single credible evidence that they continue to exist anywhere else in any universe .

again i ask thee, have you SURVEYED all the vastness of the universe to come to that conclusion? With what yardstick did you come to that conclusion?

hisblud: again i ask thee, have you SURVEYED all the vastness of the universe to come to that conclusion? With what yardstick did you come to that conclusion?

What if I tell you YES?

I have studied from those who studied and SURVEYED all the vastness of the universe and actually know more about the universe than the authors of religious holy books could have imagined.

Are you happy now?

cyrexx:

It's because your brain has been configured by your religious training to turn a blind eye to sound and logical arguments against your religion/christianity, hence you falsely see them as weak arguments.

Lol. Yet another pathetic excuse for the un-soundness and il-logicality of the arguments you guys continue to rehash.

cyrexx:

What if I tell you YES?

I have studied from those who studied and SURVEYED all the vastness of the universe and actually know more about the universe than the authors of religious holy books could have imagined.

Are you happy now?

what if you say no? Wont you be happy? Which tool did your source use, care to say

hisblud: hi last night i followed this thread until my battery went down, the way you, strik, anony pointed the out their flaws of evolving morality was outstanding. It was fun.

Do you deny that morality evolves?. . .

mazaje:

Do you deny that morality evolves?. . .

if morality evolves, then you have no right to condemn what happened in the past during da moses period. Do you agree?

hisblud: if morality evolves, then you have no right to condemn what happened in the past during da moses period. Do you agree?

There is what we call objective morality and it has nothing to do with time and the evolution of morality. . .Slavery is objectievely wrong regardless of time, killing of innocent children is wrong regardless of time. . .Your god and his chosen men were said to have done that as such I have every right to condemn them based on that principle. . .even if we are to go by their own moral standard at that time they were still wrong, because according to the story, they called the egyptian evil people for enslaving them and claming they want to take over their land, only for them to come out and go about enslaving others, killing them and taking over their lands. .. . .

mazaje:

There is what we call objective morality and it has nothing to do with time and the evolution of morality. . .Slavery is objectievely wrong regardless of time, killing of innocent children is wrong regardless of time. . .Your god and his chosen men were said to have done that as such I have every right to condemn them based on that principle. . .even if we are to go by their own moral standard at that time they were still wrong, because according to the story, they called the egyptian evil people for enslaving them and claming they want to take over their land, only for them to come out and go about enslaving others, killing them and taking over their lands. .. . .

What then do you mean by an evolving morality if you accept an objective morality?

Ihedinobi:

What then do you mean by an evolving morality if you accept an objective morality?

this was what i wanted to ask him. It seems when it suites his point he chooses between evolving and objective morality. Oya answer ihedion

Ihedinobi:

What then do you mean by an evolving morality if you accept an objective morality?

Some moral principles are objective while others are not and evolve. . .Objectiveness of morality does not mean that morality does not evolve. . .Objective morality destroys your own position . .It is wrong to enslave people against their will or kill innocent children for crimes they no know nothing about. . .Your god and his "chosen men" did so that makes them evil. . .

mazaje:

Some moral principles are objective while others are not and evolve. . .Objectiveness of morality does not mean that morality does not evolve. . .Objective morality destroys your own position . .It is wrong to enslave people against their will or kill innocent children for crimes they no know nothing about. . .Your god and his "chosen men" did so that makes them evil. . .

What are some examples of moral principles that evolve? Explain their evolution a bit, if you will.

mazaje:

Some moral principles are objective while others are not and evolve. . .Objectiveness of morality does not mean that morality does not evolve. . .Objective morality destroys your own position . .It is wrong to enslave people against their will or kill innocent children for crimes they no know nothing about. . .Your god and his "chosen men" did so that makes them evil. . .

who or what determines when a morality evolves and that which is objective? Mazaje?

@Ihedinobi and hisblud

Read this post, note especially the capitalised "NOTHING".

Read also this post (on cannibalism) and also this one and, a propos slavery specifically, this one.


So maybe what you are seeing is 'some progress'!

Ihedinobi:

What are some examples of moral principles that evolve? Explain their evolution a bit, if you will.

I will play your games as well, I have asked you some questions and your refused to answe them on the ground that you do not like them, then you turned around and you are asking me questions as well. . .Answer mine and I will answer yours. . .I will repeat mine again. .Do you accpet objective morality and do consider enslaving people and killing innocent children as objective moral evil?. . .

hisblud: who or what determines when a morality evolves and that which is objective? Mazaje?

I told you that objective morality based on its principles states that there are some moral good or evil that exist on their own independent of time or people. . .I myself have come to accept it as true when I debated anony, before then I didnt accpet that principle. . .Morality despite being objective still evolves, do you deny that morality evolves?. . .Pls answer. . .You guys don't want to answer anything i have noticed. .

mazaje:

I told you that objective morality based on its principles states that there are some moral good or evil that exist on their own independent of time or people. . .I myself have come to accept it as true when I debated anony, before then I didnt accpet that principle. . .Morality despite being objective still evolves, do you deny that morality evolves?. . .Pls answer. . .You guys don't want to answer anything i have noticed. .

if morality evolves, then you haveno right to condemn what happened in the past during da moses period. Do you agree?

are you saying that objective morality is universal morality?

hisblud: are you saying that objective morality is universal morality?

Answer the question, do you disagree that morality evolves yes or no?. . .You have been refusing to answer anything , but you keep asking questions. . .I will just keep playing your games. . .

mazaje:

Answer the question, do you disagree that morality evolves yes or no?. . . You have been refusing to answer anything , but you keep asking questions. . . I will just keep playing your games. . .

Same as Jesus Christ answered question with question, i think most answers are found in questions.

JESUS: ANSWERING QUESTIONS WITH QUESTIONS
June 1, 2010 by mondaymorningreview
Our Lord was skilled at asking precision questions that drove to the heart of a situation. Some of His most profound questions came as a response to those who were questioning Him. The following is a list of 29 questions Jesus used to question His questioners.

Matthew 9:14-15 (NIV) 14 Then John’s disciples came and asked him, “How is it that we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?” 15 Jesus answered, “How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them?
Matthew 15:1-3 (NIV) Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
Matthew 15:32-34 (NIV) 33 His disciples answered, “Where could we get enough bread in this remote place to feed such a crowd?” 34 “How many loaves do you have?” Jesus asked.
Matthew 17:24-26 (NIV) 24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?” 25 “Yes, he does,” he replied. When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own sons or from others?”
Matthew 21:16 (NIV) 16 “Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him. “Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read, “‘From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise’?”
Matthew 26:6-10 (NIV) 6 While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, 7 a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. 8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. 9 “This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.” 10 Aware of this, Jesus said to them, “Why are you bothering this woman?”
Mark 2:1-11 (NIV) 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” 8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins….” He said to the paralytic, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”
Mark 4:10,13 (NIV) 10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables…13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable?
Mark 4:38,40 (NIV). 38 Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?” 40 He said to his disciples, “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?”
Mark 7:17-18 (NIV) 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked.
Mark 10:2-3 (NIV) 2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” 3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.
Mark 12:14-17 (NIV) 14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?” But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they replied. 17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him.
Mark 12:18, 20-24 (NIV) 18 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question… 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21 The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22 In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23 At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” 24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?
Luke 2:48-49 (NIV) 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” 49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”
Luke 6:1-3 (NIV) One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2 Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?” 3 Jesus answered them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?
Luke 10:25-26 (NIV) 25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
Luke 10:29,36 29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” . . . 36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
Luke 12:41-43 (NIV) 41 Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?” 42 The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time?
Luke 18:18-19 (NIV) 18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
Luke 20:1-4 (NIV) One day as he was teaching the people in the temple courts and preaching the gospel, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, together with the elders, came up to him. 2 “Tell us by what authority you are doing these things,” they said. “Who gave you this authority?” 3 He replied, “I will also ask you a question. Tell me, 4 John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or from men?”
Luke 24:17-19 (NIV) 18One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?” 19 “What things?” he asked.
John 3:4,10 (NIV) 4 “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!” 10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
John 6:60-71 (NIV) 60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” 61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
John 8:3-10 (NIV) 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say? . . . 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
John 11:8-10 (NIV) 8 “But Rabbi,” they said, “a short while ago the Jews tried to stone you, and yet you are going back there?” 9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight?
John 13:37-38 (NIV) 37 Peter asked, “Lord, why can’t I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.” 38 Then Jesus answered, “Will you really lay down your life for me?
John 18:22-23 (NIV) 22 When Jesus said this, one of the officials nearby struck him in the face. “Is this the way you answer the high priest?” he demanded. 23 “If I said something wrong,” Jesus replied, “testify as to what is wrong. But if I spoke the truth, why did you strike me?”
John 18:33-34 (NIV) 33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” 34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”
John 21:20-22 (NIV) 20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them…21 When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?” 22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”

^^

. . .

hisblud: again i ask thee, have you SURVEYED all the vastness of the universe to come to that conclusion? With what yardstick did you come to that conclusion?

Let's assume Mister A & Misses B are travelling from Lagos to Abuja. Mister A is a very old man with great grandchildren while Misses B is a young women in. Her early 30's with 6 young children. When the journey starts there's the usual prayers for a safe journey & thanking God for keeping them alive up to that moment in time. Unfortunately during the journey despite their prayers for a safe journey the vehicle crashed & Misses B the mother of 6 young kids was among the victims that died while Mister A the old man with great grandchildren survived. Was Misses B expecting to die on that journey? Why didn't God tell her in advance that he had better plans for her in heaven so she could say a final goodbye to children? So since she wasn't given any notice as a loving caring mother if she did exist as a spirit or in any other form she would do her possible best to visit her children via their dreams or call them to pass her love & to let them know that she had to abandom them because God has better plans for her. She would find her children not her children having to find her like according to your yardstick reasoning.

manmustwac: Let's assume Mister A & Misses B are travelling from Lagos to Abuja. Mister A is a very old man with great grandchildren while Misses B is a young women in. Her early 30's with 6 young children. When the journey starts there's the usual prayers for a safe journey & thanking God for keeping them alive up to that moment in time. Unfortunately during the journey despite their prayers for a safe journey the vehicle crashed & Misses B the mother of 6 young kids was among the victims that died while Mister A the old man with great grandchildren survived. Was Misses B expecting to die on that journey? Why didn't God tell her in advance that he had better plans for her in heaven so she could say a final goodbye to children? So since she wasn't given any notice as a loving caring mother if she did exist as a spirit or in any other form she would do her possible best to visit her children via their dreams or call them to pass her love & to let them know that she had to abandom them because God has better plans for her. She would find her children not her children having to find her like according to your yardstick reasoning.

Are you confused

again i ask thee, have you SURVEYED all the vastness of the universe to come to that conclusion? With what yardstick did you come to that conclusion?

Go figure out what cyrexx said... and dont come and give us some unrelated example...question is WHAT WAS THE CONCLUSION?

Solozzo:

Very good questions. Over to the religionists

You only need your body and the senses here on earth, the human spirit lives on after death.