ijawkid:

Just like the way obama should be in prison abi??............

Obama did not start any unjust war, but George Bush and Cheney deserve to be in prison . . .

What about killing when your nation tells you to??.......

Killing to defend your nation from aggressors is not wrong, atleast based on our current moral dispensation . . .Killing other people for no reason but because your nation tells you to invade them and take their land is wrong based on our current moral dispensation. . .

mazaje:

Obama did not start any unjust war, but George Bush and Cheney deserve to be in prison . . .



Killing to defend your nation from aggressors is not wrong, atleast based on our current moral dispensation . . .Killing other people for no reason but because your nation tells you to invade them and take their land is wrong based on our current moral dispensation. . .

Ahhh!!!!!!.....in other words you are saying the isrealites were told to go to war for no good reason.........they just went to war for fun.........

Now I can see........

Weren't the isrealites oppressed by other nations??.........

Was isreal ever a world power that oppressed other nations and created wars just for fun??.......

ijawkid:

Ahhh!!!!!!.....in other words you are saying the isrealites were told to go to war for no good reason.........they just went to war for fun.........

Now I can see........

Weren't the isrealites oppressed by other nations??.........

Was isreal ever a world power that oppressed other nations and created wars just for fun??.......

When the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites and Jebusites--the land he swore to your ancestors to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey--you are to observe this ceremony in this month. Exodus 13:5

The bible does not say that the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites and Jebusites oppressed the Isrealites. . .The Jewish god only promoised to give his chosen people the land that belongs to the others mostly becauise the worshipped other gods and he told his chosen men to kill them all and take their lands. . .

mazaje:

Nope, at least our morality has evolved so much now that we consider killing people for woshiping other gods an evil thing . ..We conside enslaving people an evil thing in most parts of the world . . . .If Moses were alive today and did most of what the bible says he did, he will be some where chilling in the inte rnational court of justice and be tried for war crimes . . . Killing people because god told your to do so is evil in the present society we live it. . .

Uh huh.... Thou shalt not disappoint me, can you? And we consider these things evil because...you don't feel good about them? Right.

Ihedinobi:

Uh huh.... Thou shalt not disappoint me, can you? And we consider these things evil because...you don't feel good about them? Right.

mazaje:

Exactly.

Ihedinobi:

Exactly.

Exactly what?. . .That the prophets your revere are no different from hitler and if they were alive today and did any of the thing written about them they would have been tried and killed or locked up in prison for the rest of their lives?. . .What exactly are you on about?. . .

HerexG :
What does an atheist believe happens after death?

I suppose same as what the Bible said in many Biblical verses:


Death is Final

Joshua 23:14
This day I [Joshua] am going the way of all the earth.
Job 7:9
As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
Job 14:10-14
But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? ... So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep ... If a man die, shall he live again?
Job 20:7
Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung.
Psalm 6:5
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalm 31:17
Let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.
Psalm 88:5
The dead ... whom thou rememberest no more.
Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Ecclesiastes 3:19
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
The dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
For there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
1 Machabees 2:62-63
A sinful man ... his glory is dung, and worms ... tomorrow he shall not be found, because he is returned into his earth; and his thought is come to nothing.

mazaje:

LOL! . . .Why is it that everything about religion involves invisible things and imaginary concepts?. . . .That is a legitimate question. . .



I must not be able to show that heaven does not exist, it is something that is impossible, just as you can not show evidence that people do not reincarnate. You can not even show that an islamic suicide bomber is not presently in heaving flying around and mating with heavily virgin while drinking from riversa of wine . . .You can not show that Osama bin Laden is not there at the moment even if I insist he is. . .I can show you how the idea came about, I can show you how the afterlife idea came about. . .From your own bible. In the OT there was nothing like hell. . .Even some of the writers of the bible like the writer of ecclesiastes doesa not believe in life after death. . .Live die and thats all, according to him. . .The idea of hell slowly evolved even within the bible. . .

Hevean remains and idea , just like reincarnation . . .It has nothing to do with reality. . .





Heaven remains and idea like reincarnation . . . .



Did you just grow up with the belief about heaven or did some one tell you based on the ideas another person conceieved?. . .



Again heaven or life agter death is just an idea like reincarnation which so many other people believe in. . .

You haven't said anything new! I aint playing 'ring-around-the-roses' today...

Have fun!

omonuan:

I suppose same as what the Bible said in many Biblical verses:


Death is Final

Joshua 23:14
This day I [Joshua] am going the way of all the earth.
Job 7:9
As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
Job 14:10-14
But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? ... So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep ... If a man die, shall he live again?
Job 20:7
Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung.
Psalm 6:5
For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalm 31:17
Let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.
Psalm 88:5
The dead ... whom thou rememberest no more.
Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Ecclesiastes 3:19
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
The dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
For there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
1 Machabees 2:62-63
A sinful man ... his glory is dung, and worms ... tomorrow he shall not be found, because he is returned into his earth; and his thought is come to nothing.

Many of the writers of the OT do not believe in life after death . . . .Some of them believd in heaven but non of them believed in hell. . . .In the OT when you offend Yahweh he kills you immediately or orders some one to kill you. . .No eternal suffering after you die . . .You violate his commandements and he kills you immediately or send someone to kill you. . . .

mazaje:

When the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites and Jebusites--the land he swore to your ancestors to give you, a land flowing with milk and honey--you are to observe this ceremony in this month. Exodus 13:5

The bible does not say that the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites and Jebusites oppressed the Isrealites. . .The Jewish god only promoised to give his chosen people the land that belongs to the others mostly becauise the worshipped other gods and he told his chosen men to kill them all and take their lands. . .

So you do agree that God had promised his people of that land that the canaanites inhabited........

So do you still thÍnk the isreÀlites cÀrried out a war for fun or for seriÓus reasons??......

mazaje:

Exactly what?. . .That the prophets your revere are no different from hitler and if they were alive today and did any of the thing written about them they would have been tried and killed or locked up in prison for the rest of their lives?. . .What exactly are you on about?. . .

No! What exactly are you on about?

So what if you would try them and kill them for what they did? The question is simple: on what basis do you judge their actions evil?

ijawkid:

So you do agree that God had promised his people of that land that the canaanites inhabited........

So do you still thÍnk the isreÀlites cÀrried out a war for fun or for seriÓus reasons??......

A supposedly great god that can do all things can not provide his "chosen" men with a land flowing with milk and honet but urges them to go and kill off others and take their lands that is flowing with milk and honey, eh?. . . .They are land grabbers and are supposed to be arrested and locked up for theft. . .

Ihedinobi:

No! What exactly are you on about?

So what if you would try them and kill them for what they did? The question is simple: on what basis do you judge their actions evil?

Its not even about me, I have told you that our morality has evolved so much now that we consider slavery a bad thing and land grab is theft. . .If Moses and Joshua were alive today he will be tried for genocide, land grab, theft and murder and ethnic cleansing. . .

mazaje:

Its not even about me, I have told you that our morality has evolved so much now that we consider slavery a bad thing and land grab is theft. . .If Moses and Joshua were alive today he will be tried for genocide, land grab, theft and murder and ethnic cleansing. . .

Let me get you right, will you hold that Moses and Joshua's actions were not morally wrong in their time because morality hadn't evolved?

mazaje:

Its not even about me, I have told you that our morality has evolved so much now that we consider slavery a bad thing and land grab is theft. . .If Moses and Joshua were alive today he will be tried for genocide, land grab, theft and murder and ethnic cleansing. . .

See? I told you it wasn't just the ability to type that qualified you for this discussion. The question remains: on what basis does this evolved morality judge the actions of these men evil?

I'll add a bonus too if you want: if morality evolved, then what's the sense in judging past actions carried out under one regime of morality by another regime, an evolved one even, of morality?

Mr anony:
Let me get you right, will you hold that Moses and Joshua's actions were not morally wrong in their time because morality hadn't evolved?

Same thing I just asked him too

Mr anony:
Let me get you right, will you hold that Moses and Joshua's actions were not morally wrong in their time because morality hadn't evolved?

They were wrong even at that time because killing and stealing were wrong even at that time. They themselves claimed the egyptians did them wrong by enslaving them, meaning even at that time they knew that enslaving others was wrong. . .From my first post I stated that if such men were alive today no body will consider them as good prophets but as war criminals. . .

Ihedinobi:

See? I told you it wasn't just the ability to type that qualified you for this discussion. The question remains: on what basis does this evolved morality judge the actions of these men evil?

I'll add a bonus too if you want: if morality evolved, then what's the sense in judging past actions carried out under one regime of morality by another regime, an evolved one even, of morality?

On the basis of them commiting crime like enslaving others, killing them, raping their woman and looting their properties. . .Those things are crimes, even at that time. . .

Do you consider enslaving other people a good thing? what about ethinic cleansing and raping woman after an unjust war for land grab?. . .Are those things good things to you. . Please answer and don't dodge the question. .

mazaje:

On the basis of them commiting crime like enslaving others, killing them, raping their woman and looting their properties. . .Those things are crimes, even at that time. . .

Do you consider enslaving other people a good thing? what about ethinic cleansing and raping woman after an unjust war for land grab?. . .Are those things good things to you. . Please answer and don't dodge the question. .

Oh sure, "don't dodge the question" like you've already answered mine. What do you think you did up there? I asked you what made their actions evil and you answer that it was the fact that such actions were crimes, that is, evil. That's why I told you not to make that much of your ability to type.

Now don't waste any more energy responding to me until you can explain how their actions were evil, that is, until you can provide the basis of judgment.

Ihedinobi:

Oh sure, "don't dodge the question" like you've already answered mine. What do you think you did up there? I asked you what made their actions evil and you answer that it was the fact that such actions were crimes, that is, evil. That's why I told you not to make that much of your ability to type.

Now don't waste any more energy responding to me until you can[b] explain how their actions were evil[/b], that is, until you can provide the basis of judgment.

keep running around chasing your own tail. . .their actions were evil based on what they themselves termed evil to be. . .they considered their enslavement in egypt as an evil act, yet they still went ahead and enslaved other people. . .According to them the egyptians treated them badly so much so that they god had to come and resuce them by sending Moses. only for them to go about killing others, raping their woman and looting their land just because they wanted to take their lands that was flowing with milk and honey. . .I am judging them based on how they judged others that did the same to them. . .

Now you answer the question. . .. . .

mazaje:

keep running around chasing your own tail. . .their actions were evil based on what they themselves term evil to be. . .they considered their enslavment in egypt as an evil act, yet they still went ahead and enslaved other people. . .According to them the egyptians treated them badly so much so that they god had to come and resuce them, ony for them to go about killing others, raping their woman and looting their land just because they wanted to take their lands that was flowing with milk and honey. . .I am judging them based on how they judged others that did the same to them. . .

Now you aswer the question. . .I can bet and thousand euros that you won't. . .

Lol. So it is NOT your evolved morality that condemns them, it is their own morality that does? Talk about talking from both sides of the mouth.

Look, when you've a real answer, post it here and I'll respond to it. Insisting that a morality judged them evil means exactly nothing for my question until you explain what that morality is and what standards or basis it rests on.

mazaje:

A supposedly great god that can do all things can not provide his "chosen" men with a land flowing with milk and honet but urges them to go and kill off others and take their lands that is flowing with milk and honey, eh?. . . .They are land grabbers and are supposed to be arrested and locked up for theft. . .

but the canaanites were squatters on that land and needed to find there square root when the real owners came....and always remember,God had made a promise.....and that he has the ultimate right to determine who lives where at any point in time............the isrealites werent land grabbers..that land was there's....

Ihedinobi:

Lol. So it is NOT your evolved morality that condemns them, it is their own morality that does? Talk about talking from both sides of the mouth.

Look, when you've a real answer, post it here and I'll respond to it. Insisting that a morality judged them evil means exactly nothing for my question until you explain what that morality is and what standards or basis it rests on.

Both morality condems them. . . .Our evolved morality and theirs as well. . .I have answered but the only excuse you are giving is that you don't like my answer. that is not a valid response. .I don't like you answer is not a valid response. . .

ijawkid:

but the canaanites were squatters on that land and needed to find there square root when the real owners came....and always remember,God had made a promise.....and that he has the ultimate right to determine who lives where at any point in time............the isrealites werent land grabbers..that land was there's....

The land was theirs how?. . .And who told you the canaanite gods didnt also make them a promise?. . .remember you only read the jewish version of the story, you didn't read the canaanite version. . .They were land graber and thieves. . .

mazaje:

Both morality condems them. . . .Our eveolved morality and theirs as well. . .I have answered but the only excuse you are giving is that you don't like my answer. that is not a valid response. .I don't like you answer is not a valid response. . .

Tehehehehehehehehehahahahaha.... Dude, I told you you'd start to talk nonsense if I took you up on what you claimed and here we arr with you spewing it.

It's a non-answer to say "what they did was evil because a moral code says it's evil" when the moral code is undefined. That's exavtly the same as saying to me that what they did was evil because it was evil (which you eventually said anyway).

Good night joo. Imagine answer to kweshun...hahahahahahahohohohohohoho

mazaje:

They were wrong even at that time because killing and stealing were wrong even at that time. They themselves claimed the egyptians did them wrong by enslaving them, meaning even at that time they knew that enslaving others was wrong. . .From my first post I stated that if such men were alive today no body will consider them as good prophets but as war criminals. . .

Interesting, was there ever a time when killing and stealing was not wrong? If so when?

mazaje:

The land was theirs how?. . .And who told you the canaanite gods didnt also make them a promise?. . .remember you only read the jewish version of the story, you didn't read the canaanite version. . .They were land graber and thieves. . .

if only you had the record of the promise made by the canaanite gods then we for no dey here dey talk na.....

Back on topic.

[img]http://tnvalleytalks.hoop.la/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/308805058295804546/filePointer/308945795795191236/fodoid/308945795795191232/imageType/LARGE/inlineImage/true/Piechart.jpg[/img]

mazaje:

Many of the writers of the OT do not believe in life after death . . . .Some of them believd in heaven but non of them believed in hell. . . .In the OT when you offend Yahweh he kills you immediately or orders some one to kill you. . .No eternal suffering after you die . . .You violate his commandements and he kills you immediately or send someone to kill you. . . .

I am not sure what you mean...are you saying that since most of the quotes are in the Old Testament, they are invalid? I thought these verses support your theory of nothing happening after death.

Ihedinobi:

Tehehehehehehehehehahahahaha.... Dude, I told you you'd start to talk nonsense if I took you up on what you claimed and here we arr with you spewing it.

It's a non-answer to say "what they did was evil because a moral code says it's evil" when the moral code is undefined. That's exavtly the same as saying to me that what they did was evil because it was evil (which you eventually said anyway).

Good night joo. Imagine answer to kweshun...hahahahahahahohohohohohoho

Their own moral code says its evil. . .Remember according to the story they egyptians saw that their numbers were increasing and they were afraid they were going to increase and take over their land so they decided to enslave them. They considered the egyptians to be evil based on what they did to them, they called for their god to come and rescue them from their bondage. Only for them to go about doing the same thing to others, taking people's lands, killing them and sparing their lives only when the people agreed to be their slaves. . .

keep running behind your tail. . .You have nothing to say apart from you do not like my answer which is actually a joke on your part. . .

Mr anony:
Interesting, was there ever a time when killing and stealing was not wrong? If so when?

When did I say this nonsense you typed above. . As usual when you have nothuing to say , all you do is make things up. You know me better than that, i always never play your games. . .Their actions were evil. . .Even by their own standards, because they same thing the egyptians did to them which they termed as evil was the same thing they set out to do unto others. . Moses, Joshua(assuiming the sories were true) , Hitler, Moa etc all belong to the same category. . .