HR.hotness:

the peak oil theory has been around for decades why is it only now that people are beginning to pay attention?
why is the US government insisting ther is no oil crisis and yet meeting with the king of saudi arabia to beg for more oil,, and yet still in iraq controlling their oil reserves

the only reason u hav heard and seen all u hav on peak oil is because the signs cannot be ignored any longer,,, the govt is being forced to take notice. suddenly going sustainabilty route has suddenly become the vogue and no one wants to be left out  

I am beginning to wonder if you have any clue what the frell you are talking of now about this peak oil idea. In the 1980's the same America developed an alternative to Oil and used it to run it's millitary, something it is now going back to do now. Back then, the world was stil high on cheap oil that the alternative oil idea did not do well. And you come in here claiming it has been america forcing the world not to consider that oil is finite resource?? I say you go back to your books and study harder.

I even raised this to help you figure out that trying to play the conspiracy card on a thread where it is not needed only shows issues you may have personally with the west rather than actual information as it does not even apply to this.

Uche2nna:

@ Kobo
So u mean getting the French to come set up a Nuclear power plant in Nigeria

Considering we have had over 20 years to do it ourselves and failed, what, pray tell, is wrong with that Are we still running on EGO-HIGH at this point ?? I for one am willing to submit that we do not have the knowledge and so need their help. Plus, since we already have China in to build for us, why not the french to build nuclear plants for us

It does not have to be that a culure of maintenance suddenly grows overnight, but maintenance can become a fruitful business venture. You provide infrastructure and pay competent companies with the know how to maintain it for you, it is as simple as that. I believe lagos state governor as part of the contract on a lot of the projects that are being undertaken and even completed, included maintenance in the budget and pay of these companies. There are so many ways to provide employment and improve the economy so it in a way goes back again to poor leadership. But these things can be used as avenues to further increase viable employment and growth.

My point exactly. Instead of us waiting around for the gods of maintainance to bless us with the ability, knowhow and zeal, I say we outsource it to companies, local or international willing to do the job for the right price and do it well.

has anyone even considered what will happen with all that radioactive uranium if the everyone decides to go nuclear?

why do have to play catch-up at all, why cant we chart our own path,,,
does anyone even realise the potential Nigeria has with regards to renewable energy?

Everyday I hav to sit through talks form people form all over the world saying how they dont hav enough land area or ocean or people to properly develop renewable energy in their country,,, thats the only reason why nuclear power is popular,,, they have thetechnology and the expertise,,,

we have the land, ocean and people,,, why not go in the direction they cant? why do we hav to chase after them in an area we are unsuited for

Kobojunkie:

My point exactly. Instead of us waiting around for the gods of maintainance to bless us with the ability, knowhow and zeal, I say we outsource it to companies, local or international willing to do the job for the right price and do it well.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the guys mining oil in Nigeria are not local companies.

HR.hotness:

has anyone even considered what will happen with all that radioactive uranium if the everyone decides to go nuclear?

why do have to play catch-up at all, why can't we chart our own path,,,
does anyone even realise the potential Nigeria has with regards to renewable energy?

Everyday I hav to sit through talks form people form all over the world saying how they don't hav enough land area or ocean or people to properly develop renewable energy in their country,,, thats the only reason why nuclear power is popular,,, they have thetechnology and the expertise,,,

we have the land, ocean and people,,, why not go in the direction they can't? why do we hav to chase after them in an area we are unsuited for

Chart our own path Isn't that what we have been trying to do for so many decades now?? Are we not tired of that path by now or do we really want more Is accepting that we have failed and trying to adopt ideas we know have worked real well for others bad?? Please enough of the fear mongering when it comes to nuclear energy. South Africa, even with it's sloppy ways has survived nuclear energy with no catastrophies for over a decade or so now. We on the other hand have had nothing but our fears to sit and bath with in that time. The flawed model of government controlling it all that we adopted from the beginning, has led us to where we are today and so we need, not only to get over our fears and do the right thing but do it for the people who are ready to see change.

I do believe a country not ought to be run like a giant experiment 24/7. Nigeria has been run that way for decades now and I am sure 99% of Nigerians will agree when I say that experiment has failed. It is now time for us to adopt what we know works and use it to our advantage.

Kobojunkie:


I am beginning to wonder if you have any clue what the frell you are talking of now about this peak oil idea. In the 1980's the same America developed an alternative to Oil and used it to run it's millitary, something it is now going back to do now. Back then, the world was stil high on cheap oil that the alternative oil idea did not do well. And you come in here claiming it has been america forcing the world not to consider that oil is finite resource?? I say you go back to your books and study harder.

I even raised this to help you figure out that trying to play the conspiracy card on a thread where it is not needed only shows issues you may have personally with the west rather than actual information as it does not even apply to this.

No need to get personal here,,, I hav no issues with the west, I'm infact grateful for everything I'velearnt cuz i feel it gives us the upper hand.

America was forced to develop alternatives to oil becos of the domestic crash in 1970, pre4dicted by King Hubbert in 1956. (u shd read up on his original report), having developed alternatives to oil, they went on to be the worlds largest consumer, over 25% of the worlds deposits,,, how do u explain that?

But surely you know hotness there are massive problems with even so called environmentally friendly renewable energy?

Uche2nna:

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the guys mining oil in Nigeria are not local companies.

a) Julius Berger, which handles majority of the construction contracts in Nigeria, is foreign.

b) Over 80% of manufacturing companies in Nigeria also happen to be foreign.

c) We have since the 80's imported a tremendous amount of the goods we consume in that country from asia and now china seems to be ahead of them all.

d) Yes, the oil companies are mostly foreign companies.

e) We have during all this times watched Nigerians owned and run companies close down due to corruption, one problem or another.


To Sum it all, we have not been doing something right and in all that time, we have made claims of wanting to do it right but it has all backfired one way or another. I don't believe adding France to the mix or getting companies like GE to supply the Nigerian government with renewable energy technology is going to change anything much.

Kobojunkie:

Chart our own path Isn't that what we have been trying to do for so many decades now?? Are we not tired of that path by now or do we really want more Is accepting that we have failed and trying to adopt ideas we know have worked real well for others bad?? Please enough of the fear mongering when it comes to nuclear energy. South Africa, even with it's sloppy ways has survived nuclear energy with no catastrophies for over a decade or so now. We on the other hand have had nothing but our fears to sit and bath with in that time. The flawed model of government controlling it all that we adopted from the beginning, has led us to where we are today and so we need, not only to get over our fears and do the right thing but do it for the people who are ready to see change.

I do believe a country not ought to be run like a giant experiment 24/7. Nigeria has been run that way for decades now and I am sure 99% of Nigerians will agree when I say that experiment has failed. It is now time for us to adopt what we know works and use it to our advantage.

I beg to differ
all we've done is play catch-up, bringing in foreign experts to help us develop methods that have worked their countries,,,

HR.hotness:

No need to get personal here,,, I hav no issues with the west, I'm infact grateful for everything I'velearnt because i feel it gives us the upper hand.

America was forced to develop alternatives to oil because of the domestic crash in 1970, pre4dicted by King Hubbert in 1956. (u should read up on his original report), having developed alternatives to oil, they went on to be the worlds largest consumer, over 25% of the worlds deposits,,, how do u explain that?

The Alternative idea did not sell well cause oil was cheap and even up to 1999, do you know oil was still selling for about $10 a barrel. You think about it. If oil is cheap and has only shot up in the last 8 years, what incentive do you have to move to an alternative which would require you to, maybe change your car or something I mean now people are making that move cause oil is now more expensive but back then, what would be reason for an average american, who could buy oil for $1 a gallon to change cars so he can us alternative oil

HR.hotness:

I beg to differ
all we've done is play catch-up, bringing in foreign experts to help us develop methods that have worked their countries,,,

When Where How Explain

Saying we have charted our own path till now implies that it is something we shook hands and agreed with this so called leadership. Non chalant perhaps, but "we" did not chart our own course. We just need to go into aggresive development in so many sectors that have been dead for so long. That is why the pace of things have been quite irritating.

LadyT:

But surely you know hotness there are massive problems with even so called environmentally friendly renewable energy?

I'm not saying its the perfect solution
there are problems but many of them due to their unique demands and inappropriate resources

take sweden for example, their forest is thecorner stone for their journey to a oil free economy,,,

we not only hav forests, we hav excess land and other resources,,,,,

Sky Blue:

Saying we have charted our own path till now implies that it is something we shook hands and agreed with this so called leadership. Non chalant perhaps, but "we" did not chart our own course. We just need to go into aggresive development in so many sectors that have been dead for so long

Even to this very deal Yar adua made, did we shake hands and agree on this with him or with anyone?? Or is this not the same old we have been doing for decades; from the beginning?? I believe we have done it, directly or indirectly for decades now and we do not have more time to waste on giants experiments that we are not sure of. We are at a point where we need to seriously change things or remain on the list of poor countries in the world for another decade or two to come. Can we afford that

That is true and you know my stance on that. Hence is it now fair to say we are were we are today because this is what we wanted or the direction we wanted to take as "charting out own course" seems to imply?

Kobojunkie:


When Where How Explain

LOL,,,, the oil we are currently shouting about, who is doing the drilling

i seem to recall that chinese wer invited to help with the railway system

You have just made a list, why do u still ask?
and if it all goes ur way, we'll also have the french building nuclear plants,,,,

catch-up i say!!!!

Its more than unique demands its cost and maintenace.  Nigeria is not ready for that.  They cant even tar the damn roads build decent bridges and maintain them have proper gutters the list is endless.  How in Gods sweet name will they be able to handle the maintanance of renewable energy baffles me.  

Here are just a FEW issues I read about

Environmental and social considerations
While most renewable energy sources do not produce pollution directly, the materials, industrial processes, and construction equipment used to create them may generate waste and pollution. Some renewable energy systems actually create environmental problems.


Land area required
Another environmental issue, particularly with biomass and biofuels, is the large amount of land required to harvest energy, which otherwise could be used for other purposes or left as undeveloped land. However, it should be pointed out that these fuels may reduce the need for harvesting non-renewable energy sources, such as vast strip-mined areas and slag mountains for coal, safety zones around nuclear plants, and hundreds of square miles being strip-mined for oil sands. These responses, however, do not account for the extremely high biodiversity and endemism of land used for ethanol crops, particularly sugar cane.

In the U.S., crops grown for biofuels are the most land- and water-intensive of the renewable energy sources. In 2005, about 12% of the nation’s corn crop (covering 11 million acres (45,000 km²) of farmland) was used to produce four billion gallons of ethanol—which equates to about 2% of annual U.S. gasoline consumption. For biofuels to make a much larger contribution to the energy economy, the industry will have to accelerate the development of new feedstocks, agricultural practices, and technologies that are more land and water efficient. Already, the efficiency of biofuels production has increased significantly and there are new methods to boost biofuel production.


Hydroelectric dams
The major advantage of hydroelectric systems is the elimination of the cost of fuel. Other advantages include longer life than fuel-fired generation, low operating costs, and the provision of facilities for water sports. Operation of pumped-storage plants improves the daily load factor of the generation system. Overall, hydroelectric power can be far less expensive than electricity generated from fossil fuels or nuclear energy, and areas with abundant hydroelectric power attract industry.

However, there are several major disadvantages of hydroelectric systems. These include: dislocation of people living where the reservoirs are planned, release of significant amounts of carbon dioxide at construction and flooding of the reservoir, disruption of aquatic ecosystems and birdlife, adverse impacts on the river environment, potential risks of sabotage and terrorism, and in rare cases catastrophic failure of the dam wall.

Hydroelectric power is now more difficult to site in developed nations because most major sites within these nations are either already being exploited or may be unavailable for other reasons such as environmental considerations.

Kobojunkie:


d) Yes, the oil companies are mostly foreign companies.

That goes to show that inviting foreigners to come do stuff in Nigeria will not neccesarily ensure sanity. The powers that be (in Nigeria) woul;d always ensure that business is done the usual way. What makes U think that it would be any different?

Kobojunkie:



I don't believe adding France to the mix or getting companies like GE to supply the Nigerian government with renewable energy technology is going to change anything much.

Now I am having trouble following ur line of argument  

HR.hotness:


LOL,,,, the oil we are currently shouting about, who is doing the drilling
i seem to recall that chinese wer invited to help with the railway system
You have just made a list, why do u still ask?
and if it all goes your way, we'll also have the french building nuclear plants,,,,

catch-up i say!!!!

The List I made has nothing to do with playing Catch up at all. You speak of bringing in the chinese to build railways, that only happened like 2 years ago as I recall the actual plan was approved in Obasanjo's final year or so as president. The other moves had nothing to do with actually playing catch up as it hard more to do with trying to get what we needed the way we could is all.

@ LadyT

I personally am not a big fan on bio fuels because of the food vs fuel issue

however, i did live in Zaria for a while and the endless land area used for absolutley nothing used to bug me
now I'm thinkin wind farms!

we hav a long stretch of coast and I'm thinkin tidal turbines
I'm going to be working with a group tasked with monitoring their efficiency once a new one is installed in west wales,,, so far it looks really good on paper, bettter than wind turbines in fact.

Uche2nna:

That goes to show that inviting foreigners to come do stuff in Nigeria will not neccesarily ensure sanity. The powers that be (in Nigeria) woul;d always ensure that business is done the usual way. What makes You think that it would be any different?

Now I am having trouble following your line of argument  

Nigerian oil companies tried and failed. Government brought in foreign oil companies to do the job and it was mainly so government could get it's hands on oil money. At first it worked for Nigeria but as the "Power's that be" became more and more self-minded, it started working against it's own people to ensure these companies not only expanded and got more oil out but more money to them. Let's be honest here, the problem is not the foreigners that come in to do the work for us. The problem is our own government that has over and over decided to work against it's own people to gain more access to the oil. If you can look back to the 70's and early 80's, the relationship between the people and the oil companies were actually not bad but if you watch how government policy has changed since then and compare it with the relationship of the oil companies to the Nigerian people has shifted, you understand that this is more of a government problem than it is actually a foreign company problem.  Look at NNPC.

Another example, importation of goods. Nigeria used to be able to manufacture so many goods in that country back in the early 80's but due to changes in government policy and institution of  more government control, we have seen that industry collapse. Infact, it almost reached a complete halt back in the 90's. However, there was a huge influx on goods, mostly sub goods into the country that aided the collapse as well. So, it is not really a foreigners problem but really our own government that has been creating these problems on a large scale.

There used to be another Nigerian company that competed with Julius berger back in the days but due to government policies, they had to close shop or I am not sure if the company was bought by Julius Berger.

We used to assemble our own cars over there in plateau or was it in Jos a while back and it was huge industry but government policies and Boom,  it was gone too. Ajaokuta steel and so many other countries have been greatly affected as well.

The reason why I am weary of Nigerians who continually try to claim the WEST is conspiring against them is cause I see nothing but stupidity in that argument, knowing full well that our own government worked to reduce Nigeria to where it is today with policies to increase government control over all sectors and practically snuffed out most all local competition but on the other hand, in bid to try to solve problems, continues to bring in foreign experts only to stuff them into the corruption mold that we have come to know of to this day. Nigeria used to be a great country once upon a time. There used to be a time when people got loans from banks to buy or build houses or even start businesses. Government changed all that with years of policies and we are were we are today cause these policies have so far not worked for our good. Remove them and we can all breath again.

Nigeria's problem is not how to generate electricity but how to manage what we have.

I feel you Hotness.  But we cant forget this is nigeria we are talking about.  We cant even do the basics right I think we are trying to do too much if they decide they want to go for this kind of energy.  We should face our most basic needs first!!!

4 Play:

Nigeria's problem is not how to generate electricity but how to manage what we have.

Nigerian's problems summarised in one simple sentence .

We can blow all the grammar we want to and draw all sorts of antecedents and precedents, the fact remains that our problem has always been managing (I called it maintaining) what we already have.

My argument basically is rather than making plenty of noise debating issues and trying to get foreign experts to fix what is so obviously and irreparably broken, we shd focus out energies on harnessing out God given resources,,,,

^{(befor the western world will find a way of stealing it as they do)}

HR.hotness:

My argument basically is rather than making plenty of noise debating issues and trying to get foreign experts to fix what is so obviously and irreparably broken, we should focus out energies on harnessing out God given resources,,,,

^{(befor the western world will find a way of stealing it as they do)}

The problem with your argument is we have been trying to do that for decades now and because of fears that are not even real, we have ruined it all. Simple!!

i dont think we've tried hard enough,,, we shd stop lookin to the west for guidiance and make up our own damn minds

I am still confused, exactly what are we trying to manage? Is it the generating facilities that cannot even give us up to a simple 5000MW? So managing this is the answer to our problems? Maintenance is an issue, but let it not take away from the fact that we need aggressive development and building in the power sector and many other sectors (if not all) in the country. When we build we can maintain. But maintaining a non existent power sector that $16billion was supposedly sank into? That i don't understand

HR.hotness:

i don't think we've tried hard enough,,, we should stop lookin to the west for guidiance and make up our own damn minds

Did it ever occur to you that you are about the only one looking to the WEST for your solution I find it really puzzling that when it comes to adopting bio-fuel ideas which happen to be western, you are ok but when it comes to other ideas which you do not agree with, suddenly the WEST props up as an issue. Interesting!! Please stop the fear mongering and focus on debating your point.

Sky Blue:

I am still confused, exactly what are we trying to manage? Is it the generating facilities that cannot even give us up to a simple 5000MW? So managing this is the answer to our problems? Maintenance is an issue, but let it not take away from the fact that we need aggressive development and building in the power sector and many other sectors (if not all) in the country. When we build we can maintain. But maintaining a non existent power sector that $16billion was supposedly sank into? That i don't understand

I am with you on this cause as far as I know, even if we managed what we had, we would still have power problems cause there is not enough of it to go around.

Kobojunkie:


Did it ever occur to you that you are about the only one looking to the WEST for your solution I find it really puzzling that when it comes to adapting bio- fuel ideas which happen to be western, you are ok but when it comes to other ideas which you do not agree with, suddenly the WEST comes up. Interesting!!

On the contrary I am totally against bio fuels,,, esp in Nigeria, we can't even grow enough to feed oursleves, read my posts properly

^{(u're getting quite personal again)}