Ignorant troll is ignorant. The plan was laid out a long time before Mary's immaculate conception, as evident by the miracle of john the baptist's birth. Go troll somewhere else.

Thelstan, do you have any suggestions to the questions raised by debosky? I would be interested in more talk on that subject.

yes

Please see this great web site on the subject:
http://www.sabbathcovenant.com/doctrine/fornication_defined.htm

I know it is the generally accepted christian belief that fornication is sin, but i have since discovered that the bible is not very clear on that. I know my christian brethen would start quoting several sriptures that say we should not fornicate, but even that is not convincing this is because just a few versions of the bible like king james version use the word "fornicate" other versions use the word "intimate immorality" on doing some theological research, i discovered that the appropriate translation that should have been used were the word fornication was used is intimate immorality. what then is intimate immorality?? Immoral intimate practices are listed in the book of Leviticus chapter 18 and the various immoral intimate practices were listed there, fornication which is the most common intimate practice was conspiciously absent from this list of intimate sins. My argument is that if really fornication is a sin then it would have been listed amongst the intimate sins in the book of levitcus. I therefore submit that the use of the word fornication by some versions of the bible was an error of translation wink Included below is levitcus 18 which deals exhuastively on intimate sins. Why is fornication missing answers anyone??

Leviticus 18
Unlawful intimate Relations
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.

6 " 'No one is to approach any close relative to have intimate relations. I am the LORD.

7 " 'Do not dishonor your father by having intimate relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 " 'Do not have intimate relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.

13 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.

14 " 'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have intimate relations; she is your aunt.

15 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.

16 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 " 'Do not have intimate relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have intimate relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 " 'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have intimate relations with her while your wife is living.

19 " 'Do not approach a woman to have intimate relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.

21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [a] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

23 " 'Do not have intimate relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have intimate relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 " 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 " 'Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.' "

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NO WAHALA KEEP ON FORNICATING ON THE LAST DAY YOU CAN ARGUE WITH JESUS.....IF FORNICATION IS A SIN OR NOT

kansi onwuekwe:
I know it is the generally accepted christian belief that fornication is sin, but i have since discovered that the bible is not very clear on that. I know my christian brethen would start quoting several sriptures that say we should not fornicate, but even that is not convincing this is because just a few versions of the bible like king james version use the word "fornicate" other versions use the word "intimate immorality" on doing some theological research, i discovered that the appropriate translation that should have been used were the word fornication was used is intimate immorality. what then is intimate immorality?? Immoral intimate practices are listed in the book of Leviticus chapter 18 and the various immoral intimate practices were listed there, fornication which is the most common intimate practice was conspiciously absent from this list of intimate sins. My argument is that if really fornication is a sin then it would have been listed amongst the intimate sins in the book of levitcus. I therefore submit that the use of the word fornication by some versions of the bible was an error of translation wink Included below is levitcus 18 which deals exhuastively on intimate sins. Why is fornication missing answers anyone??

Leviticus 18
Unlawful intimate Relations
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.

6 " 'No one is to approach any close relative to have intimate relations. I am the LORD.

7 " 'Do not dishonor your father by having intimate relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 " 'Do not have intimate relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.

13 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.

14 " 'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have intimate relations; she is your aunt.

15 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.

16 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 " 'Do not have intimate relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have intimate relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 " 'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have intimate relations with her while your wife is living.

19 " 'Do not approach a woman to have intimate relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 " 'Do not have intimate relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.

21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [a] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

23 " 'Do not have intimate relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have intimate relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 " 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 " 'Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.' "

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NO WAHALA KEEP ON FORNICATING ON THE LAST DAY YOU CAN ARGUE WITH JESUS.....IF FORNICATION IS A SIN OR NOT

I totally agree with you.
God and the Bible does not condemn se.x, but promiscuity.
The false prophets, and sadists who have ruled for centuries by ignorance, have taken advantage of that.

What's more, and I will go much further.
In a Bible passage says that Jesus never had se.x?

Jagoon: I asked a simple question, no one as been able to provide me with any serious answers really i need someone to disect my analogy of the subject and tell me were iam wrong, that is if i am wrong

Oya fornicate consistently and tell us what u notice about your spiritual relationship with God.....no too much english.....a trial will convince you.

Sorry, I haven't read all the posts so perhaps this idea may have been mentioned... I noticed that Lev 18 didn't mention sex with your own child. I submit Lev 18 isn't a definitive list. BTW this isn't the greatest argument but seems to work here.

Hi Jagoon, this article might give you relevant explanation on the topic, please take time to read and let see if we will be having the same conclusion, http://ecclesia.org/truth/women_sin_whore.html

WHATEVER IS RIGHT

1) The fact that an action is pleasurable, doesn't make it right
2) The fact that everyone is doing something, doesn't make it right
3) The fact that your action is producing good results or makes you successful, doesn't make it right
4) The fact that your pastor or teacher justifies your action, doesn't make it right
5) The fact that your mentor is doing something wrong, doesn't make it right
6) The fact that your city, town, country or the church condones an immoral action e.g homosexuality, doesn't make it right

ANY UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN, FORNICATION IS A SIN INCLUDING MASTURBATION, HOMOSEXUALITY, BEASTIALITY, PROSTITUTION, ORAL AND ANAL SEX IS ALL SIN

sex is frequently overrated.

tpia@:
sex is frequently overrated.

sex is frequently overrated? Are you aware that man thinks about sex 90% of the time. outside food and water, and maybe shelter from the elements, the most important thing to man is se.x

^lol

i didnt ask for a lecture and yes, you just proved my point.

edited ... double post

@ OP

See Galatians 5: 19 - 22

If the Bible says the sexually immoral shall not inherit the Kingdom of God, and it condemns fornication in many places, why do you expect us xtians to tell you fornication will land you in the kingdom of God?

no where in the bible was sex between two consenting non related single adults condemned. what it condemned is adultery (especially when it involves married women) and sex with relatives, same gender and animals. As the OP rightly pointed out, fornication has been been wrongly interpreted to mean sexual immortality, meanwhile the same bible has listed what it terms sexual immortality. sexual immorality can be defined to mean anything according to the person doing the defining. some people can define masturbati0n, Mouth Action, suck job, anal se.x and even non missionary position as sexual immortality.

read 'SO WHY IS FORNICATION A SIN'. U might be enlightened.

Hi Jagoon.

I like ur question and analysis. why not read my post 'SO WHY IS FORNICATION A SIN?' I guess u are a person of logic, cos actually, certain questions doesn't just have a 'yes' or 'no' answer. but logic/reason is the way forward. or what do u make of cases like 'which is more important - chicken or egg'? love to hear ur comment after reading the post. u'll need to be patient though, it's quite lengthy.

takia.

really? u need therapy session if u stil think lik this b now

wirinet:

sex is frequently overrated? Are you aware that man thinks about sex 90% of the time. outside food and water, and maybe shelter from the elements, the most important thing to man is se.x

that's if you have nothing else doing.

@ bolded.

Am strongly putting it to everyone here that not until you understand the mind of God toward a subject like this you'll all keep revolving round His word aimlessly till the end of life. Am a Christian and a "geek Christian" who always search for mytries of the Bible. The truth is Bible is mainly written in codes and symbols nd not until you understand this two things you won't be able to unlock the mind of God but remain a naive. The writer of this post is very right. but it's a pity we so-called Christians today read the Bible only in the church at services and LITERARILLY. IF fornication is sin outside marriage then what is MARRIAGE? If you're able to unlock the mind of God concerning marriage then you'll come in agreement with this post but to many nowadays marriage is church wedding bla bla bla!!! What is marriage?

marriage is an agreement between two people who are genuinely inlove and wishes to live as husband and wife.............
This agreement are usually made privately between the two people involved.........

After they've agreed,...the people involved may decide to officially contract the agreement according to the law of the land or in the name of anything they called thier God.

Whatever they do(se.x) between when they took thier private decision and when they officially contract thier agreement( wedding)........
It's not fornication!!!!! (this apply only to those whom aregenuinely in love ooo)

When the bible says 'For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear' (II Tim 4:3)

How a marriage can now be seen as a private affair meanwhile the bible has said a man will LEAVE his father and mother and cleave to his wife so they will become one flesh beats me. The leaving happens first before the cleaving. The bible is rife where it was stated the woman 'IS GIVEN' to the man in marriage. Even those that had been bethrothed did not sleep with their virgins as seen in I Corinthians 7:36 'But if a man thinks that he’s treating his fiancée improperly and will inevitably give in to his passion, let him marry her as he wishes. It is not a sin'. Surprisingly no one has been able to justify that.

How someone can say a man and a woman can marry privately just in a bid to have sex outside marriage is really amusing. Meaning any body past puberty can just enter a room with someone of the opposite sex, sleep together claiming love and 'marriage' and start producing children.

How many men here will be so happy when their daughter (probably in school and you have great plans for) takes a man into her room in the claim of a 'private wedding ceremony' and probably gets pregnant and comes to tell you she is in love and now married. Lol, it is better imagined.

What is love? Read I Corinthians 13 and see the attributes of love which covers patience and not acting unbecoming. People do not even know what love is but are fast to say love. If you love a woman, you will do the right thing to seek for her hand in marriage from the right sources, that is a true test of love.

Any consenting sex outside the union of man-woman marriage is fornication. Let those who think they know better than their Maker find other excuses.

Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor by all, and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge

this jagoon of a boy, u are jst jobless

seeking for knowledge and trying to justify ur claim so dat u can satisfy ur desires. I pray GOD have mercy on u

dis is nt p.shollzy replying u but someone

I LOVE WAT KANSI OWUEKWE SAID, KEEP ON FORNICATING TILL D LAST DAY AND ARGUE WITH JESUS. u beta don't add, subtract and even turn d word of GOD upside down. u nid GOD to show u the revelation of his WORD and nt trying to understand it urself so as nt to give any meaning to it. pls go and pray for more understanding

Hw does dat so call 'intimate immorality' sounds in ur hear? Is Immorality a good thing? Well it's as if u are just twisting d word of God to sweet ur purpose, God is coming to give a difference btwen dos who blif dat it is a sin or immorality.

Jagoon: I asked a simple question, no one as been able to provide me with any serious answers really i need someone to disect my analogy of the subject and tell me were iam wrong, that is if i am wrong

Fornication is a sin plain n simple. U have quoted d Bible, ask 4 wisdom 2 understand it. I wld rather u accept that it's a sin n then if u do 4nicate, u take full responsibility rather than looking 4 a way to colour it n make urself feel good. Is bribery a sin? Is adultery a sin?

Jagoon: @syrup
Thanx, but your response has been most unhelpful, i can at best describe it as wuruwuru to a preconceived answer, leviticus 18 was very clear it never said you should not have sex with any body you are not married to, it listed the immoral sexual practises and sex with one's boyfriend, girlfriend, fiance e.t.cwas clearly not listed. So stop trying to confuse issues here. If what was meant was anybody you are not married to, it would have been much easier to include in the scriptures instead of taking time to elaborate and explain the various sexual sins as comprehensively stated in leviticus 18. So stop jumpimg into certain conclusions based on presumption

stop decieving people to believe that having sex wit boy friend, girl friend or someone who is not your wife is good. Don't you have conscience. Infact, the people you called boy friend or girl friend are actually boy enemy or girl enemy respectively. God is against fornication. He that committed it sinneth against his own body and destroyeth the temple of God because our body is the temple of God. He that destroyeth God's temple, him shall God destroy.

Hebrews 13:4 ESV / 189 helpful votes

Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

Galatians 5:19-21 ESV / 128 helpful votes

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.