amor4ce: i think it is best to start from here as a sort of nairaland collaborative project with the aim of producing an encyclopaedic dictionary of yoruba monosyllables and associated vowel prefixes aka stabilizers . i have been wondering if there is any such book with which i could learn the language better. from there the deep aspects of the monosyllables will be revealed to the learner as the oluwa deems fit and ready.

MetaPhysical:

Hey brother, i hear you. That reaponse was not meant to instruct, it is not a script for anyone to practice. However, if anyone would have the audacity to make attempt, the seeds needed to invoke the elements are missing and very unlikely anyone could obtain them who does not have the knowledge. This was meant to be a sneakpeek along the line of discussion into the mysteries of the sounds, words and root letters under discussiin, nothing more.

Given what im reading from you, in consideration of your depth and insight of Yoruba knowledge, im shocked to hear you say Yoruba is not esoteric. Whatt!!!

Even Old testament is filled with esoterism, and no doubt many of what we are discussing have their roots there.

Please do not take responses personal, we are all sharing.

None of the Ado townships in Yorubaland is located arbitrarily and without forethought, thrre is a commonality. What is their commonality?

amor4ce: I got f9 in yoruba (ssce) someone else should start, perhaps with a thread to notify interested Oodua Nairalanders. From there the format can be discussed before taking the project online. Getting all possible monosyllables and stabilizers is easy. It can even be compared to the derivation of all the odus of ifa. Perhaps each consonant, monosyllable, and monosyllable + prefix stabilizer can be treated like an odu/chamber.

Tony Spike: @ prexios, you might find it queer that I always attack my curiosity using timelines, locations and names. I am not exactly too well-grounded in the Yoruba ancient traditions, so I tend to look at external influencing factors within my grasp.

Has anyone here ever taken a look at Egyptian kingship timelines though? There is a strong possibility that the ancient Egyptians led several expeditions into West Africa. Interestingily, most of these expeditions must have been influential to some of the mystical names we are trying to unravel.

MetaPhysical:

I agree.

Can we take this discussions offline? Does anyone disagree?

prexios:

hello tony spike,

i understand your dilemma, its normal to make such conclusions, then it will help archeology and history when argument develop around such hypothesis, we have to make some far reaching attempts or suggestions and see if our traditions can confirm or verify it.

As to the sargon hypothesis, i believe that the Yoruba have traditional language that rhymes with Sargon as an interpretation, meaning, "the king is worthy".The expression that fit this in Yoruba is egun. Egun means "he worth".

Remember egun is connected with "agon". all you need now is an "S" to make it Sargon. i am only joking, but if it does not connect, don't force it. meanwhile, Sagon is like Yagon. it means "to be barren" or "being barren" in this respect, we collect local accessories to form the word. call it Aroba.

Sargon describes Sango as was ifa on Obara, of whom was said "Oya gan, oya 'pata, o romo leyin ediye o bu pere sekun" Sango was among the leaders of the ancient Yoruba migrant. there are duplicate traditions, so it is not easy to take one away when the free duplicates are idle and not corroborating or corroborated.

As to the Hausa being Assyria, maybe. But consider this: how does Hausa occur in Yoruba traditionally? You have it either as ausa or Alausa. Alausa means "the pursuant of those that retreat" ausa in Yoruba is "A wu Sa". hard to interpret?

What does Yoruba call Ausa? Asala. (chestnut) that's a mnemonic. Asala is "flight of survival." use that on ausa. What a lovely flight!Someone connects with that flight in Yoruba antiquity, namely "Osun Oshogbo Oroki asala."

i think that the Hausa says then that the Yoruba were Yoruba. What relationship does this have with Bariba? anyway, i think Yari in Yoruba is to disagree. did the Yoruba disagree with their king just as were the hausa in their tradition?

prexios:

Well i have my weakness anyway, and that also is my strength in this respect, maybe i took it personal. but men, i am not esoteric and i wont be. I am a messenger, I think it is easy to kill the messenger, his message will get him killed first.

If God had wanted a temperament that delves in esoteric to handle this aspect of Yoruba, he would have countless candidates. He that God want God chooses. "eni olorun fe lolorun yan". We all have our gifts and this is how i function and will rightly encourage my audience. i preach what i practice.

Pardon me if i embarrass you or something, its not out of outright indignation, but it is my leadership responsibility as a host on this thread. i have to protect it from being hijacked by free radicals with overt intentions.

Tony Spike:

Prexios, have you read the most recent paper of the historian, Dierk Lange, baring his opinion on the Yoruba origin and migrations? It is lengthy and well-researched. I would like you to give it a look and tell me your opinion. I personally think his approach of making comparatives is exceptional. This approach for example has been used to synchronise the time-lines between distant but related cultures. In our case, the Oyo kingship time-line seems undated before 1728. This may qualify Sango as a mythical figure, than a realistic one.

Here's the link
http://dierklange.com/pdf/LOST_TRIBES_OF_ISRAEL.pdf

prexios:
According to the version of the tradition
recorded by the Yoruba scholar Samuel Johnson
in 1895, the ancestral Yoruba lived in Mecca
and their king was Nimrod. Braima, i.e., Abraham,
instigated a revolt against the polytheistic regime of
Nimrod in the course of which Nimrod was killed.
Thereupon Oduduwa, the son of Nimrod, fled with
his followers and the idols to Africa and left en
route some kindred people such as the Kanuri of
Kanem-Bornu and the people of the Hausa kingdoms
of Gobir. He settled with his people in Yorubaland,
where he founded the holy city of Ile Ifẹ
(Johnson 1921: 3 – 5). Details of the story show evidence
of extensive borrowing from Arabic sources
(al-T
˙
abarī 1989: 49 – 61; al-Kisā’ī 1978: 136 – 150).
However, under the layer of the interpretative Arab
story we find some elements of an authentic tradition:
though not necessarily in Mecca, the ancestors
of the Yoruba once lived in the Near East; called by
the biblical name Nimrod, their ancestral king was
killed in the course of a popular uprising; his son
Oduduwa fled with many people, some of whom
settled en route to later Yorubaland. Considering the
traditions of people on the possible route of migration
between Syria-Palestine, Darfur, and the region
of Lake Chad, we find ample references to countries
of provenance and ancient figures belonging to the
history of the Fertile Crescent

i am grateful for this great resource, i am studying it already. But the weakness is apparent: it will never be standard until it is all encompassing, treating all Yoruba pieces that less powerful Yorubas have to offer. forget the "myth of power" when you are treating the history of a people, the fact that America was the strongest country today does not mean that Indian civilizations had not once thrive in America before Columbus.

It is the weakness that only you and i can supply for foreign authors to re-interpret. until we do our own part and stop waiting for the next foreign author to quote, Yoruba history will remain inconclusive. Foreign author needs us to understand our history, they will take it up where we stop, if that is the right thought. Albeit, i don't intend to jump the gun, i am loving it.

Nevertheless, i will like to know what you all want me to believe as to Yoruba origin, after all, i have concluded my point and i am clear to some extent as my language delivery can go. What do you want me to believe as to the origin of Yoruba in shortest sentence, so that i do not stay seeing all efforts from my long established position that may make me bias as to others' sound opinion?

Tony Spike:

Dierk Lange's approach has its flaws with some exaggerations. I however think it is a great resource, an eye-opener to the world of Yoruba origin. Lange was able to show that Nineveh or mondiana (not Medina) was the location of the revolt. I personally think this story must have happened between 450 BC and 600 BC.
The evidence of the ancient Yoruba stay at South Sudan (or Nubia) is very evident in our language. Precisely, I want to assume the migrants from near-East and Nineveh stayed around Western Nile in South Sudan. Why am I saying this? A substantial tonal and spelling styles of the Yoruba language is very Nilotic. You'd notice that the Yoruba language and some fewer Nigerian languages have excessive use of O and A starting their names and nouns. This O and A feature, I have found out, is a Nilotic influence as it checks out with other 'out of Western Nile' groups like Luo and perhaps, Luhya in Western Kenya. Now there are some issues on ground:

1. How large was the migrating population from near-East?
2. How long did they sojourn in Upper Egypt or Nubia?
3. How large was the final migrating population from Sudan?
4. What happened to the indigenes they met on ground?

As a scientist, there is a population approach called the Birth-Death analysis. This approach can be applied in language and population studies. If I could find the Yoruba population in say 1600 AD, I could estimate what it was in say 500 BC. This can help me locate the number of migrations into Yorubaland. On this, I want to believe that the remnants of people from the Nok culture were on ground during their arrival. Even art forms from Nok era, to say, about 1000 AD witnessed a quantum leap; this itself is an evidence. Research has shown that Ile-Ife, for example, was inhabited as early as 600 BC. After Negro asserted that Nineveh might have been renamed Ile-Ife (Nine-veh > Lile-ifeh > Ile-Ife), it dawned on me that many Yoruba cities/towns were handed codified names by our ancestors.

So finally on what I believe is our origin, the Oduduwa story is a code because the names of the protagonists and locations are basically codified. Most Yoruba myths are codified, alongside the religious customs. That's why we are discussing our ideas and discoveries on a platform like Nairaland. I believe a combination of religious, cultural and scientific methodology, like we are all applying, will reveal a lot of these codes to us. Thanks

MetaPhysical:

Hello man,

You are hitting the nails where they need to be struck and i hope your blows can drive it in deep enough.

Consider the following additions:

1. Could Mondiana be Midian?

2. Is SARGON a name or a title?

3. Could there have been a SARGON pre-migration from Nineveh and another SARGON in the post- migration era of newly settled Ile- Ife?

4. Sargon and Ile Ife, are these imported names?

5. What, if any, are the correlations between
a. Osangangan - 2nd Ooni
b. Sango - 2nd Alaafin
c. Sargon.

amor4ce: T[b]he Fulani gene pool includes some Indo-European DNA which is seen in the scientific community as evidence of a back-migration into Africa.[/b] Can you provide an alternative explanation?
As our people migrated from Ile-Ife within the last 1,000 years they found various artifacts in the virgin territories. An example is the group of Esie soapstone figures. Another is the magical pot found by migrants from Iremo Quarters and which they called "Orisha gun amu ewa" (shortened to Shagamu). did such artifacts create and plant themselves? is it not that some people lived there before, including a previous incarnation of yourself? how is it that there is little knowledge among our people of sungbo eredo?

amor4ce: I will get the details of that paper when phcn does the needful.
Many west and central african peoples have traditional accounts, e.g. kisra legend, of mass migrations from the Near East. I would rather believe my ancestors than encourage myself to accept without scrutiny the biased research promoted by oyinbo people who fabricate reasons to justify their hatred of us. If I had been restricting myself I would not have let Otito set me free from their lies.

9jacrip:

Nice!
Please provide a link for the bolded.

The rest of your posts are problems you and I are supposed to find solutions to w/out 'famzing' Israelites who will deny ever having connection with us at the slightest opportunity.

Don't get me wrong, this is a beautiful thread. My take is, it will go a long way if we restrict our research to Southwest/Nigeria/West Africa and at max Africa than attach to anything outside, Please understand me.

amor4ce: Elizabeth < Orisha___? Orishun___?

Who can help me with the meaning/etymology of Ejigbo?

prexios, can you help me with info about the orisha known as Aku? I strongly believe that the ku in the name has to do with remnant, which is frequently refered to in the bible - the remnant will be saved. There is a shrine in Irefin, Ekiti that is dedicated to him. Aku >(Y)aku(b) or > (J)aco(b)

MetaPhysical:

This exercise, at least from what I have so far seen, is ethnic driven and we are looking from inside out. We are inspecting sounds, letters, root words, names, titles, and so on from the perspective of Yoruba tongue and DNAing them to the general population of tongues in the human race and timeline.

So far there are matches and consistently those matches are footprinted in AfroAsian customs and timeline.

We are not using AfroAsia to explain Yoruba but on the other hand bits and pieces, in arts, symbols, root words, antiquity, records, place names, titles, are all presenting revealing and hard to dismiss evidences of a common root.

Dont blame what we are doing, tell the inputs to stop corresponding and correlating.

MetaPhysical:

This exercise, at least from what I have so far seen, is ethnic driven and we are looking from inside out. We are inspecting sounds, letters, root words, names, titles, and so on from the perspective of Yoruba tongue and DNAing them to the general population of tongues in the human race and timeline.

So far there are matches and consistently those matches are footprinted in AfroAsian customs and timeline.

We are not using AfroAsia to explain Yoruba but on the other hand bits and pieces, in arts, symbols, root words, antiquity, records, place names, titles, are all presenting revealing and hard to dismiss evidences of a common root.

Dont blame what we are doing, tell the inputs to stop corresponding and correlating.

Tony Spike:

Thought provoking questions, I would say. We do have a lot on our hands, this is the best thread so far on this issue. By the way, I just found that the Nilotic tribe, Luo, is actually pronounced "Luwo". Doesn't that tell us something about "Oluwo", the equivalence name in Yoruba language. Could this be a tribe of Levites (Levi > L_V_ > L_W_ > LUWO) relocated to Africa after the Babylonian massacre? Alagba Negro is here again...

prexios:

I love that. Who cares what is Israel's take on this. well with due respect, may the people be great. What we are doing here is putting Yoruba history as Tony has said at the reach of the enthusiast. we are not isolated from the rest of humanity and nothing stops us from using the Bible and other springboards as clue in search of our origin. the Bible is a time tested portable homeland for all humanity, you are either fighting it or loving it. But in comparative study of Yoruba, Bible speaks a lot of Yoruba or vice versa, so we are just looking into it.

prexios:

OLUWO is Yoruba for the next in rank to Apena.
OLUWO is, as Johnson put it, omo OLUWO-NI, a son of sacrificial victim.
That is cardinal in Yoruba History. Oluwo means, one who beat the taboo.

Tony Spike:

Dierk Lange's approach has its flaws with some exaggerations. I however think it is a great resource, an eye-opener to the world of Yoruba origin. Lange was able to show that Nineveh or mondiana (not Medina) was the location of the revolt. I personally think this story must have happened between 450 BC and 600 BC.
The evidence of the ancient Yoruba stay at South Sudan (or Nubia) is very evident in our language. Precisely, I want to assume the migrants from near-East and Nineveh stayed around Western Nile in South Sudan. Why am I saying this? A substantial tonal and spelling styles of the Yoruba language is very Nilotic. You'd notice that the Yoruba language and some fewer Nigerian languages have excessive use of O and A starting their names and nouns. This O and A feature, I have found out, is a Nilotic influence as it checks out with other 'out of Western Nile' groups like Luo and perhaps, Luhya in Western Kenya. Now there are some issues on ground:

1. How large was the migrating population from near-East?
2. How long did they sojourn in Upper Egypt or Nubia?
3. How large was the final migrating population from Sudan?
4. What happened to the indigenes they met on ground?

As a scientist, there is a population approach called the Birth-Death analysis. This approach can be applied in language and population studies. If I could find the Yoruba population in say 1600 AD, I could estimate what it was in say 500 BC. This can help me locate the number of migrations into Yorubaland. On this, I want to believe that the remnants of people from the Nok culture were on ground during their arrival. Even art forms from Nok era, to say, about 1000 AD witnessed a quantum leap; this itself is an evidence. Research has shown that Ile-Ife, for example, was inhabited as early as 600 BC. After Negro asserted that Nineveh might have been renamed Ile-Ife (Nine-veh > Lile-ifeh > Ile-Ife), it dawned on me that many Yoruba cities/towns were handed codified names by our ancestors.

So finally on what I believe is our origin, the Oduduwa story is a code because the names of the protagonists and locations are basically codified. Most Yoruba myths are codified, alongside the religious customs. That's why we are discussing our ideas and discoveries on a platform like Nairaland. I believe a combination of religious, cultural and scientific methodology, like we are all applying, will reveal a lot of these codes to us. Thanks

prexios:
But i can guarantee that the Yoruba ancestors touched the tip of the expanse, the coast that is. they got to the sea. i think that is what is meant by "omode gbon, agba gbon..." this implies that "Ale ife" is not "ile ife.

9jacrip:

The bolded part is quite fraudulent and unacceptable! Yoruba language and Hebrew/Middle eastern languages are not even grouped together under linguistic classification.

Match your points/facts within sir, looking inside out is far fetched.

Let's not derail the thread sha, I hope it grows.

MetaPhysical:

Who grouped them?