The Fulani have an old Berber (?) element. DISCOVER. 2012 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/01/the-fulani-have-an-old-berber-element/

amor4ce: It was the oyinbo colonialists that taught our people to begin to believe that either we did not migrate or that we migrated only from somewhere around the Benue River basin.
Here are the fulani dna papers:
MtDNA Profile of West African Guineans: Towards a Better Understanding of the Senegambia Region. Rosa, A, et al., 4 (340-352), s.l. : Annals of Human Genetics, 2004, Vol. 64.

A Back Migration from Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa Is Supported by High-Resolution Analysis of Human Y-Chromosome Haplotypes. Cruciani, F, et al., 70 (1197-1214), American Journal of Human Genetics, 2002.

OK good.
You can't call it a 'back migration'. The Fulani are not indigenous to Africa, hence they did not migrate back.

In addition, Africans in Africa migrated within and around Africa. I'm yet to read a research positing the emigration of Africans out of Africa then possibly returning.

Having said the above, there were people in Ile-Ife before the supposed advent/incursion of Oduduwa from Mecca. How come Arab historians/scholars have no record of the acclaimed civil war that led to the expulsion of Oduduwa?

The Yoruba people have nothing to do with the Middle East (No traces in culture/art).

At max, the people of Ile-Ife moved around within the continent that they've forgotten their origin - I re-emphasize, let's look inward. You guys are doing a great job, it is not quite easy but let's stay within Africa circle.

9jacrip:


Read these:

http://multitree.org/codes/heb

multitree.org/codes/heb

^^^ I don't see where any connection is made.

Wexler, Paul. The Schizoid Nature of Modern Hebrew: A Slavic Language in Search of a Semitic Past. Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz, 1991.

Johnson, Georhe. Scholars Debate Roots of Yiddish, Migration of Jews. New York Times. October 29, 1996. http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/29/science/scholars-debate-roots-of-yiddish-migration-of-jews.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm.

amor4ce: Wexler, Paul. The Schizoid Nature of Modern Hebrew: A Slavic Language in Search of a Semitic Past. Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz, 1991.

Johnson, Georhe. Scholars Debate Roots of Yiddish, Migration of Jews. New York Times. October 29, 1996. http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/29/science/scholars-debate-roots-of-yiddish-migration-of-jews.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm.

Of what relevance are both references? They do not mention Africa/west Africa/Yoruba in anyway. Help me out here, what point are you trying to drive home with that link when the argument is solely about the 'home' of Yiddish West or East?

Are you by any chance a linguist?

prexios:

the etymology of ejigbo:

Afin, awo ilode,
Adia fun Ajibola,
tii se yeye elekuru,
Loja ejigbo-mekun.

Ajibola saye oni ire.
Orunmila loni koo saye oni-ire,
Ajibola saye onii re,
Elasode loni koo saye oni-ire.

Ijesha lafin. If you look carefully at the word irefin, i never know if a place is so called until now, but, what you have to look out for is the code words, just as tony spike has said above. Irefin is the feedback to afin. Irefin means ire-afin, that is "the journey of Afin." Who was afin? Recall the aro eyo, where an icon said "...afin le nimi, mii seni a ti laya." i don't need to find who afin was if i have this ancient line, period.

Ejigbo is the short for ejigbo-mekun. Oja ejigbomekun is the founding fathers' name for what we call "Yoruba and her neighbours." Some people are not going to drop the old name for new ones, hence the term survive till our time. The Yoruba search party were of two divides, the pro-and anti-expansion. the Ifes were the expansionists, like the elites.

The anti-expansionists were people who speaks different language other than Yoruba around Yoruba land*(guesswork here).

The title for the ifa that i have given here is Osa - meji, it is taken from Odu Osa. I have told you guy to get the book awon oju odu mererindinlogun by Wande Abimbola ealier on, when we are at the initial stage of this discourse with Alagba Negro, whom i really miss.(i may have been unprofessional at that stage, i never knew we will come this far, but even when we disagree, his contributions get us this far, as i have to unleash just to be right.)

like it or not, Aku seems to be a short cut of Akure. You have to particularize en-route the closest synonym. the reason is, no Yoruba history is isolated of the other next to it. to isolate is to struggle with facts. then struggled facts often stand aloof and is foreign to body corpus of the thread of Yoruba history, meanwhile, all Yoruba words were codes invented by scholars like us who created subtle backups should in case one placed at some distance point become corrupt. Aku to me may have to do with Aoku, or Aaku.

You are correct, anyway. it talk about the remnants. the Yoruba lost a lot of followers and were greatly discouraged, thus they seek the face of God to know if they will ever survive at this strange world. But then God comfort them and says that they will become so many (awujale). From this came the song,

Ewo le ayo ewomo o
ewo le ayo ewomo.

Ayo is the source of the prefix Yo- that you have in Yoruba. Don't ask me more about this, you should understand what the mnemonic Ayo is, it is distributing seed across each cell that make up an opon. You know that Ayo is "Songo" among the Cameroonians sha? fact in Yoruba will always collect itself to connect.

egypt is actuall ejigbo. eji refers to two or duality while igbo is perhaps ancient land. thus ejigbo is upper and lower egypt. horus the black one is actually orisha who is obatala. horus was the first to rule upper and lower egypt together, after defeating osi who is osi efa or satan. remember that in ifa, obatala is strongly linked with ejigbo.

9jacrip:


Of what relevance are both references? They do not mention Africa/west Africa/Yoruba in anyway. Help me out here, what point are you trying to drive home with that link when the argument is solely about the 'home' of Yiddish West or East?

Are you by any chance a linguist?

The info in those links is about the often suppressed awareness in scholarly circles that modern hebrew is a fabricated language and that the jews are impostors.

amor4ce: egypt is actuall ejigbo. eji refers to two or duality while igbo is perhaps ancient land. thus ejigbo is upper and lower egypt. horus the black one is actually orisha who is obatala. horus was the first to rule upper and lower egypt together, after defeating osi who is osi efa or satan. remember that in ifa, obatala is strongly linked with ejigbo.

LOL! Where are you getting all of these from?

amor4ce: The info in those links is about the often suppressed awareness in scholarly circles that modern hebrew is a fabricated language and that the Jews are impostors.

Fabricated? How's that? And Jews impostors, how so?

From the links you shared, all I could deduce was school of thought trying to find the 'origin' of Yiddish.

Anyways, talking about scholarly circles - are you aware the bible itself is not regarded as a primary neither a secondary source for carrying out a research which is the case here? Between, the data there-in are not provable. A good example is the supposed enslavement of Israelite by the Egytians which would have been a case of migration/emigration! It is nowhere recorded in Egypt history, art, literature.

another PAGAN 9JA...

the semitic languages which would be relevant to the thread, should be ancient aramaic, or whatever languages were spoken in ancient Canaan.

9jacrip:

I'm yet to read a research positing the emigration of Africans out of Africa then possibly returning.

really?

Having said the above, there were people in Ile-Ife before the supposed advent/incursion of Oduduwa from Mecca. How come Arab historians/scholars have no record of the acclaimed civil war that led to the expulsion of Oduduwa?

there was constant fighting in those days, and myriads of civil wars, until the middle eastern peninsula united as one tribe.

The Yoruba people have nothing to do with the Middle East (No traces in culture/art).

At max, the people of Ile-Ife moved around within the continent that they've forgotten their origin - I re-emphasize, let's look inward. You guys are doing a great job, it is not quite easy but let's stay within Africa circle.

nothing wrong with that, but it gives an incomplete history.

amor4ce: another PAGAN 9JA...

So now I'm another PAGAN 9JA because I stated the fact in historians circle?

You're funny

tpia@:
really?

Well, why not furnish this thread with one?

tpia@:
there was constant fighting in those days, and myriads of civil wars, until the middle eastern peninsula united as one tribe.

How come no account of such gargantuan occurrence, given how it led to the death of the kind of that period (Your Lamurudu/Nimrod)

tpia@:
nothing wrong with that, but it gives an incomplete history.

Incomplete open to further research or better left idle rather than seek a false completion of the story by patching up history with unacceptable premise.

No Linguist, no Anthropologists and no Historian has been able to link Semitic culture and that of Yoruba/Ile-Ife other than fraudulent claims which cannot stand thorough critique of the 3 fields mentioned above.

9jacrip:

No Linguist, no Anthropologists and no Historian has been able to link Semitic culture and that of Yoruba/Ile-Ife other than fraudulent claims which cannot stand thorough critique of the 3 fields mentioned above.

In other words, the works of Dierk Lange spanning almost 20 years are fraudulent? Even the renowned Historian, Saburi Biobaku is also fraudulent? How about Modupe Oduyoye? I guess all their works should be discarded? Nice one, bro

ok so the yoruba not only had dealings with egypt...
but also created an afro. asiatic phrase?

The Yoruba language is classified as one of the Niger-Congo languages. As a matter-of-fact, the Niger-Congo languages seem a much more recent version, an evolved form of an ancient type of Nilo-Saharan language. The Oyinbo people who did this classification based their tools on language syntax i.e. the arrangement of Subject-Verb-Object (SVO) in a sentence. However, this is a more generic classification for simplistic study only. The indepth truth is that semantics and etymology are better tools at analysing and understanding a language better. This is what makes the Yoruba language very unique.

You see, these oyinbos have perfected a way of teaching us our history and at the same time, limiting us to historical bounds. We have our proverbs, the Ifa corpus and so many hidden codes in our culture and city names that can give us a far greater perspective. I dare say you don't have to be a practising linguist or historian to put all these pieces together. Where were the Yoruba historians and linguists for the past 50 yrs? What have they been doing in our Universities? Have they been sleeping or what? @ 9jacrip, If you are one of them, it's high time you became radical. It takes a radical mind to make a breakthrough in any field of research. Being conventional will not take you anywhere...

Recently, I found out a research that proposed that the Biblical patriachs were listed among the Egyptian kingship list. It took someone's ingenuity and patience to synchronise dates, names, events, etymologies, symbols e.t.c. This is what I call being radical.

By the way, If Canaanite connections can be found among the Lemba tribe of Zimbabwe by traditions, culture, religion and science (mtDNA), why not in West Africa? The Lemba language is very much Bantu like our Oyinbo 'linguists' had earlier classified them, as with other African languages. Zimbabwe happens to be much further South of Africa (more distant) than West Africa.

#just saying

Tony Spike: The Yoruba language is classified as one of the Niger-Congo languages. As a matter-of-fact, the Niger-Congo languages seem a much more recent version, an evolved form of an ancient type of Nilo-Saharan language. The Oyinbo people who did this classification based their tools on language syntax i.e. the arrangement of Subject-Verb-Object (SVO) in a sentence. However, this is a more generic classification for simplistic study only. The indepth truth is that semantics and etymology are better tools at analysing and understanding a language better. This is what makes the Yoruba language very unique.

You see, these oyinbos have perfected a way of teaching us our history and at the same time, limiting us to historical bounds. We have our proverbs, the Ifa corpus and so many hidden codes in our culture and city names that can give us a far greater perspective. I dare say you don't have to be a practising linguist or historian to put all these pieces together. Where were the Yoruba historians and linguists for the past 50 yrs? What have they been doing in our Universities? Have they been sleeping or what? @ 9jacrip, If you are one of them, it's high time you became radical. It takes a radical mind to make a breakthrough in any field of research. Being conventional will not take you anywhere...

Recently, I found out a research that proposed that the Biblical patriachs were listed among the Egyptian kingship list. It took someone's ingenuity and patience to synchronise dates, names, events, etymologies, symbols e.t.c. This is what I call being radical.

Tony,
Another dead hit on the nail! i love this response.

Tony Spike, the presence of the names of those patriarchs on Egyptian king lists is true and I had already planned to begin a series about it that would show the links to Ifa. Can you send me a mail with the url?

MetaPhysical, have you seen the article that I mentioned in my reply to your mail?

9jacrip:

Well, why not furnish this thread with one?

Not sure what you mean, african back migration isnt new.

how come no account of such gargantuan occurrence, given how it led to the death of the kind of that period (Your Lamurudu/Nimrod)

You'll have to ask others about the nimrod reference, it didnt come from me since i havent studied that context.

As per your question, during periods of unrest, people moving elsewhere is not unusual.

Do you at least agree there was unrest in the ancient middle east?

Incomplete open to further research or better left idle rather than seek a false completion of the story by patching up history with unacceptable premise.

No Linguist, no Anthropologists and no Historian has been able to link Semitic culture and that of Yoruba/Ile-Ife other than fraudulent claims which cannot stand thorough critique of the 3 fields mentioned above.[quote]





Your comment requires more analysis than i can currently provide.

Tony Spike:

In other words, the works of Dierk Lange spanning almost 20 years are fraudulent? Even the renowned Historian, Saburi Biobaku is also fraudulent? How about Modupe Oduyoye? I guess all their works should be discarded? Nice one, bro

Sir, regardless of how critically acclaimed a work might have been over a particular period, history is a continuous process that dislodges earlier works till the core truth is attained! So the works of Frobenius, Dierk Lange and Hamitic Hypothesis apologists have been dismissed.

I don't know who Modupe Oduyoye is but I'll look for his/her works, meanwhile Saburi Biobaku is not of the Hamitic Hypothesis school, rather, he posited a migration pattern within Africa - Yoruba migrated from upper Egypt and NOT middle east, led by Oduduwa.

Tony Spike: The Yoruba language is classified as one of the Niger-Congo languages. As a matter-of-fact, the Niger-Congo languages seem a much more recent version, an evolved form of an ancient type of Nilo-Saharan language. The Oyinbo people who did this classification based their tools on language syntax i.e. the arrangement of Subject-Verb-Object (SVO) in a sentence. However, this is a more generic classification for simplistic study only. The indepth truth is that semantics and etymology are better tools at analysing and understanding a language better. This is what makes the Yoruba language very unique.

You see, these oyinbos have perfected a way of teaching us our history and at the same time, limiting us to historical bounds. We have our proverbs, the Ifa corpus and so many hidden codes in our culture and city names that can give us a far greater perspective. I dare say you don't have to be a practising linguist or historian to put all these pieces together. Where were the Yoruba historians and linguists for the past 50 yrs? What have they been doing in our Universities? Have they been sleeping or what? @ 9jacrip, If you are one of them, it's high time you became radical. It takes a radical mind to make a breakthrough in any field of research. Being conventional will not take you anywhere...

Recently, I found out a research that proposed that the Biblical patriachs were listed among the Egyptian kingship list. It took someone's ingenuity and patience to synchronise dates, names, events, etymologies, symbols e.t.c. This is what I call being radical.

The Yoruba language is classified as one of the Niger-Congo languages. As a matter-of-fact, the Niger-Congo languages seem a much more recent version, an evolved form of an ancient type of Nilo-Saharan language. The Oyinbo people who did this classification based their tools on language syntax i.e. the arrangement of Subject-Verb-Object (SVO) in a sentence. However, this is a more generic classification for simplistic study only. The indepth truth is that semantics and etymology are better tools at analysing and understanding a language better. This is what makes the Yoruba language very unique.

You see, these oyinbos have perfected a way of teaching us our history and at the same time, limiting us to historical bounds. We have our proverbs, the Ifa corpus and so many hidden codes in our culture and city names that can give us a far greater perspective. I dare say you don't have to be a practising linguist or historian to put all these pieces together. Where were the Yoruba historians and linguists for the past 50 yrs? What have they been doing in our Universities? Have they been sleeping or what? @ 9jacrip, If you are one of them, it's high time you became radical. It takes a radical mind to make a breakthrough in any field of research. Being conventional will not take you anywhere...

Recently, I found out a research that proposed that the Biblical patriachs were listed among the Egyptian kingship list. It took someone's ingenuity and patience to synchronise dates, names, events, etymologies, symbols e.t.c. This is what I call being radical.


Sir -

Sir, only a possibly link between both classifications have been 'suggested' and a comparative research done by Westermann which is yet to be widely accepted as a fact. And, Nilo-Saharan is still African, it has nothing to do with the Middle East, so?

I read the Dierk Lange's work 'The Origin of Yoruba and the Lost Tribes of Israel' and in this work with so many flaws, he stated "Not surprisingly, none of the pre-nineteenth-century kings mentioned in Ọyọ tradition can be traced in contemporary West African records... As we have seen above, identifications with successive Israelite and Assyrian kings are highly plausible." Instead of seeking veracity of the existence of these kings by conducting research on claimed interactions with existing kingdoms/settlemets of this period he was quick to look to the middle east for validation, How so? When the pre 19th C kings had interactions with people of Nupe/North which is very much on record? He further stated, "The Ten Lost Tribes properly speaking are largely absent from Ọyọ dynastic tradition. They appear, however, in the creation account dealing with the seven princes whom Olodumare/El let down on a chain to the primordial sea. Each of these princes received a heritage, but the youngest, Oranyan/ Ọranmyian, the equivalent of Jacob, was given
the instruments of creation and, therefore, he became the creator of the solid ground on the water (in Ọyọ/Samaria). Having thus created the earth,Ọranyan/Jacob emerged naturally as its ruler". - This part lost me! Where has it ever been said that Oranyan/Oranmiyan had anything to do with creation? Furthermore, in this book seeking to impose 'Jews/caucasians' turned to black and blacks/Africans never existed nor had a culture but rather, culture from the M.East was carried over, he omitted the Benin Empire part in Oranmiyan's life but rather went straight to Igboho.

Having said the above, it is apparent the Oyinbos like Dierk Lange sought to entrench that Africans/Yoruba had no origin/history but rather an offshoot of middle east. This is a way they perfected in teaching us our history which the people on this thread have been brain-washed with! You said ' We have our proverbs, the Ifa corpus and so many hidden codes in our culture and city names that can give us a far greater perspective. I dare say you don't have to be a practicing linguist or historian to put all these pieces together.' I mentioned this in an earlier post, but to understand the stuffs you listed one has to be an initiate or close to the initiates of the Yoruba belief systems for better and un-embellished data instead of looking towards the bible or quran.

Please do a quick research on African Historiography/Ibadan school of history to find answers about what the historians of the 50s have done/been doing. You mentioned Saburi Biobaku, he was one of them. They helped fend off the likes of Dierk Lange and preachers of Hamitic Hypothesis by re-writing African/Yoruba history by looking within with trade factors/migration patterns taken into consideration.

The bolded is quite possible, wait till it is either affirmed and re-affirmed in the scholarly circle before bringing it to the fore for 'ogberis' to bite and regurgitate.

tpia@:


[quote author=tpia@] Not sure what you mean, african back migration isnt new.

You claimed Africans emigrated then migrated back, so I asked you for a research work on any of such migration/emigration?

tpia@:
You'll have to ask others about the nimrod reference, it didnt come from me since i havent studied that context.

OK

tpia@:
As per your question, during periods of unrest, people moving elsewhere is not unusual.
Do you at least agree there was unrest in the ancient middle east?

People moving during unrest is not unusual, but in the case of the Middle East owing to how wars and other important occurrences were recorded, it would only be reasonable to expect to find any reference to the war that led to Oduduwa's exile from Middle East/Mecca given how events of such nature are ubiquitous in Arab literature no matter how minuscule/minute regardless of it being subjective or objective.

9jacrip, your wet blanket intervention on this thread has been laced with hypocrisy. If at all you read any of Dierk Lange's papers without prejudice, you would have immediately noticed they are like minority reports and that he has been refuting the hamitic hypothesis with reasons usually suppressed in oyinbo-dominated scholarly groups. These groups have been the ones brainwashing your likes into rejecting our traditional accounts of migration while supporting their historical and academic fraud. Why is it that you quickly reject our stories but happily swallow the oyinbo dictates about our history and theirs? you would do well to remove the ship-loads of logs from your eyes and unclog your neural pathways of their scholarly fraud. but, are you one of them trying to discourage us?

9jacrip,

Who is Agboniregun?

Where did the word Aborigene creep into whiteman's vocabulary? Do you notice a similarity between Agboniregun and Aborigene?


What is Ase?

Where did white man start to associate Sango's rod as an Axe?


What is Orisa?

Where did white man get the word Oracle? Orisa > Orica > Oracle


What is Iduro?
Where did white man get the word Endure?

What is Ehin?
Where did white man get the word Behind?

These and many more questions we are asking and we are inspecting it from the functionality of these words and their applications in our cults, arts, rites, customs, and so on. We agreed not to limit or lead or prejudge but to allow the evidence to lead where it wants.

So far the evidence has been taking a journey and thebtrip has consistently led to AfroAsia. We dont know what we will find when we start to probe our landing there. Is that the origin of Yoruba or is AfroAsia itself a mid-way along a much broader exploratory journey. We dont know but we are keeping an open mind.

Do not be antagonistic here, present your evidence as much as you can by focusing less on language classification and more on language application to the challenges of society in Yoruba antiquity.

To give you the bottom line of our exercise is, we are not searching for who Sango is (we know him already) but we want to know what Sango is (is it a name or title and what is the application).

MetaPhysical: 9jacrip,

Who is Agboniregun?

Where did the word Aborigene creep into whiteman's vocabulary? Do you notice a similarity between Agboniregun and Aborigene?


What is Ase?

Where did white man start to associate Sango's rod as an Axe?


What is Orisa?

Where did white man get the word Oracle? Orisa > Orica > Oracle


What is Iduro?
Where did white man get the word Endure?

What is Ehin?
Where did white man get the word Behind?

These and many more questions we are asking and we are inspecting it from the functionality of these words and their applications in our cults, arts, rites, customs, and so on. We agreed not to limit or lead or prejudge but to allow the evidence to lead where it wants.

So far the evidence has been taking a journey and thebtrip has consistently led to AfroAsia. We dont know what we will find when we start to probe our landing there. Is that the origin of Yoruba or is AfroAsia itself a mid-way along a much broader exploratory journey. We dont know but we are keeping an open mind.

Do not be antagonistic here, present your evidence as much as you can by focusing less on language classification and more on language application to the challenges of society in Yoruba antiquity.

To give you the bottom line of our exercise is, we are not searching for who Sango is (we know him already) but we want to know what Sango is (is it a name or title and what is the application).

My brother, this is quite interesting.
I'd love to see how far these hypothesis goes .

I want to learn.

amor4ce: 9jacrip, your wet blanket intervention on this thread has been laced with hypocrisy. If at all you read any of Dierk Lange's papers without prejudice, you would have immediately noticed they are like minority reports and that he has been refuting the hamitic hypothesis with reasons usually suppressed in oyinbo-dominated scholarly groups. These groups have been the ones brainwashing your likes into rejecting our traditional accounts of migration while supporting their historical and academic fraud. Why is it that you quickly reject our stories but happily swallow the oyinbo dictates about our history and theirs? you would do well to remove the ship-loads of logs from your eyes and unclog your neural pathways of their scholarly fraud. but, are you one of them trying to discourage us?

I see you're taking a debate personal, I'm sorry if my contributions upset you.

You honestly had me laughing really hard with the bolded. Do you even know what Hamitic Hypthesis means? LMAO! Please hit google really fast and correction sir: Deirk Lange's work is solely based on promoting Hamitic Hypothesis, read it again.

Our traditional account as you mentioned doesn't have anything to do with migration from middle east, rather, it was Sultan Bello and through Clapperton who have sold the idea of migration which became the favourite of everyone! Traditional belief is Oduduwa came down from the sky in chain (a chain is still at his forest in Ile-Ife today believed to be the chain he descended with). This is the history we are meant to scrutinize not bothering our heads of Hebrew terms and folklore that might have even existed in the first place!

The Hamitic Hypothesis apologists like Deirk Lange were quick to dismantle traditional accounts and beliefs that blacks ever founded and set up a political structure (which Oduduwa did) which consequently means the glass works, terracotta works, bead works, bronze etc found in Ife couldn't have been done by blacks/Yorubas hence brought from M.Eas. Furthermore, the early kings of Oyo never existed but rather a history of M.East carried on - how come Deirk Lange ignored Oranmiyan's contact with Benin Empire? Didn't such occuer in the M.East?

Saburi Biobaku, Keneth dike, Ade Ajayi, Toyin Falola et al have put forward research works which would help us look inward and do away with hamitic hypothesis I.e Dierk Lange and his kind.

You're the one who needs to open your eyes - your fellow black historians radicalized African historiography and broke the hegemony of the white man still you're here coining names to match the one in Arabia.

9jacrip:

My brother, this is quite interesting.
I'd love to see how far these hypothesis goes .

I want to learn.

Yes brother, thank you.

White man says the child born in a black/white relationship is not white, it is black. If you mix a population of these children with that of Morroccans, Egyptians, Jordanians, you cannot tell who is Arab and who is not and you cannot tell who is Northern African and who is not. Physically they have corelating features.
So why is white man now claiming North Africa as a caucasoid heritage when he denies that heritage to the likes of Obama?

My brother when it comes to the blackman, you cannot trust much of what white man classifies, one way or the other. You must look objectively at what the properties and functionalities are.

Yes, it is true Yoruba is classified Niger-Congo. Tell me one member in that group that we share cults and customs with or that we have same tongue with or even share in our narrative of creation of mankind in Ile-Ife. None of them whatsoever.

The classification is political and goes to the heart of missionary works to kill the Sudan footprint across WestAfrica and anchor it elsewhere. It is why all alphabets in WestAfrica are latinized, a move away from the traditional ajami. Ajami was a linguafranca that tied WestAfrica together in a fraternal bond.

I have heard some Yoruba Christians who feel the same way about Ajami and its links to Arab. This prejudice lead some to dismiss the Yoruba link to AfroAsia and they push the Niger-Congo theory repeatedly. This is nothing but fear. I want to remind you that Bible is written in Arabic and there are Christians in Arab lands that say Sallam Alaikum and Allahu Akbar.

This exercise we are on is religious tolerant and race tolerant. For the first time, we want our tongue to lead us to its origin. If the origin end up being Niger-Congo then so be it.

MetaPhysical: Yes brother, thank you.

White man says the child born in a black/white relationship is not white, it is black. If you mix a population of these children with that of Morroccans, Egyptians, Jordanians, you cannot tell who is Arab and who is not and you cannot tell who is Northern African and who is not. Physically they have corelating features.
So why is white man now claiming North Africa as a caucasoid heritage when he denies that heritage to the likes of Obama?

My brother when it comes to the blackman, you cannot trust much of what white man classifies, one way or the other. You must look objectively at what the properties and functionalities are.

Yes, it is true Yoruba is classified Niger-Congo. Tell me one member in that group that we share cults and customs with or that we have same tongue with or even share in our narrative of creation of mankind in Ile-Ife. None of them whatsoever.

The classification is political and goes to the heart of missionary works to kill the Sudan footprint across WestAfrica and anchor it elsewhere. It is why all alphabets in WestAfrica are latinized, a move away from the traditional ajami. Ajami was a linguafranca that tied WestAfrica together in a fraternal bond.

I have heard some Yoruba Christians who feel the same way about Ajami and its links to Arab. This prejudice lead some to dismiss the Yoruba link to AfroAsia and they push the Niger-Congo theory repeatedly. This is nothing but fear. I want to remind you that Bible is written in Arabic and there are Christians in Arab lands that say Sallam Alaikum and Allahu Akbar.

This exercise we are on is religious tolerant and race tolerant. For the first time, we want our tongue to lead us to its origin. If the origin end up being Niger-Congo then so be it.

@ the bolded: that needs to be applied to the works of scholars/promoters of hamitic hypothesis which reeks on this thread. We need to be careful with how we coin terms and parallel Sargon to be Sango, Oduduwa to Dud etc.


The classification of languages within Africa is very much acceptable given we're looking in ward and there must have been similar vowels, consonant, pronunciation patterns in these languages rather than jumping the Mediterranean to find or coin a similar language. If you do a thorough research you'll find Yoruba narrative of creation of mankind holds in some of these other African cultures/civilizations.

You seem confused about what Ajami is. Ajami as a word means 'foreign', it didn't even 'tie' West Africa together as you've claimed. It simply was a writing style whereby Arabic alphabets are used for writing African languages. It didn't mean we shared a lingua Franca because the way Ajami would be applied to a Yoruba Language will certainly be far different from how it is applied to Hausa or any other language - besides it is common within Islamic circles. Ajami doesn't in anyway cement Yoruba link to AfroAsia, no Yoruba literature or writings have been done in Ajami even though it was widespread throughout W.Africa - be guided. See: http://www.afrikanistik-online.de/archiv/2010/2957

It is good the exercise is religious and race tolerant. From the page one of this post no one has looked at Swahili, Zulu, Wolof et al. Or do we say the contribution of Arab Civilization to mankind in almost all ramifications means we can't look for contributions of other civilizations from within them and we ascribe everything to Arabs?

9jacrip:


@ the bolded: that needs to be applied to the works of scholars/promoters of hamitic hypothesis which reeks on this thread. We need to be careful with how we coin terms and parallel Sargon to be Sango, Oduduwa to Dud etc.

You and I are speaking in English to discuss Yoruba roots. Already, we are handicapped by the medium of communication. English language lacks functionality for us to apply sound to customs in Yorubaland.

I read somewhere not long ago the english term "landlord". This is a term we hear and use everyday in Yorubaland. There is no equivalent for landlord in Yoruba tongue. Why is that?

We have to probe Yoruba customs to find answers. The path to the answer is dotted with many other terms and functions each of therm in turn serving as contact points for other traditions. So you go in looking for landlord but come out with landlord, slavery, land cult, sacrifice, exile, and so on and so forth.

So in clarifying Sango, we need to understand what Sango is. There is nothing in Yoruba writing to give us insight of what that term is. Everything on Sango describes who he is. The narration on Sango personality itself places him mythically outside of Yorubaland and was believed to be the reicarnation of a much powerful king before him. So who was this powerful king embodied in Sango?

Can you answer this without going to history to find powerful Sangos before the Yoruba Sango and where, if any, can you find one?

The classification of languages within Africa is very much acceptable given we're looking in ward and there must have been similar vowels, consonant, pronunciation patterns in these languages rather than jumping the Mediterranean to find or coin a similar language. If you do a thorough research you'll find Yoruba narrative of creation of mankind holds in some of these other African cultures/civilizations.

I have no input on that, as long it doesnt stop what we are doing here i dont have a problem with its wide acceptance. Our work here continues regardless.

You seem confused about what Ajami is. Ajami as a word means 'foreign', it didn't even 'tie' West Africa together as you've claimed. It simply was a writing style whereby Arabic alphabets are used for writing African languages. It didn't mean we shared a lingua Franca because the way Ajami would be applied to a Yoruba Language will certainly be far different from how it is applied to Hausa or any other language - besides it is common within Islamic circles. Ajami doesn't in anyway cement Yoruba link to AfroAsia, no Yoruba literature or writings have been done in Ajami even though it was widespread throughout W.Africa - be guided. See: http://www.afrikanistik-online.de/archiv/2010/2957

I have written in Ajami, I read Ajami, so I dont know how i could be confused about its meaning or its application.

There are stacks of Ajami scripts recovered from Timi of Ede's palace and they were state documents, some of which were communications to people outside Yorubaland. There are private Yoruba citizens in posession of family records documented in Ajami.

There were communications between Yoruba, Hausa, Kanuri, Mali, Ghana. What was the linguafranca between these different Empires?

It is good the exercise is religious and race tolerant. From the page one of this post no one has looked at Swahili, Zulu, Wolof et al. Or do we say the contribution of Arab Civilization to mankind in almost all ramifications means we can't look for contributions of other civilizations from within them and we ascribe everything to Arabs?

Arab is younger than Yoruba so take Arab out of the equation.

AfroAsia is not the same as Arab.

Zulu has nothing called Orisa or Edumare or Aramfe. These are the canons of our belief system.

Wolof has no Araba, Adimu, Bilkisu Sungbo.

Swahili has no Ogboni, Isise, Ifa.

All these cultural canons of Yoruba are mirrored one for one in an equivalent value in the AfroAsian culture.

Adimu
Orisa
Aramfe
Isise
Ogboni
Araba
Bilkisu

What use is Niger-Congo grouping, widely accepted or not, when all the belief systems of my land is finding matches in a land far away from Niger- Congo?

Do we have Yorubas here that have thorough understanding of Portuguese, Spanish, German, French?

To connect the dots and rejoin the migration path I believe we need to review materials outside English also. Here is something interesting and shocking.

1. The Biblical name Peter is translated in Yoruba Bible as Peteru. That interpretation is wrong.
The correct translation should have been "Apata".

2. Akoro is a small crown worn by Yoruba regents and is usually less magnificent than a full crown, Ade, that an Oba would wear.

What is amazing is the Yoruba Akoro is called Coronet in English but "Adelskrone" in German.

Where and how did Yoruba words cross connect into Greek/Latin/Roman words?

MetaPhysical: Do we have Yorubas here that have thorough understanding of Portuguese, Spanish, German, French?

To connect the dots and rejoin the migration path I believe we need to review materials outside English also. Here is something interesting and shocking.

1. The Biblical name Peter is translated in Yoruba Bible as Peteru. That interpretation is wrong.
The correct translation should have been "Apata".

2. Akoro is a small crown worn by Yoruba regents and is usually less magnificent than a full crown, Ade, that an Oba would wear.

What is amazing is the Yoruba Akoro is called Coronet in English but "Adelskrone" in German.

Where and how did Yoruba words cross connect into Greek/Latin/Roman words?

The Greeks became the first dominant European conquerors of the ancient world under Alexander the Great. Even though the Greeks were known to have acquainted (hobnobbed) themselves with the Egyptians since circa 1000 BC. Whatever they learnt from Egypt and their conquered nations, they recorded and improved upon. The death of Alexander brought about the rise of the Roman empire, the owners of Latin. The Romans borrowed heavily from the Greeks at the early stages of their empire, and thereafter, became independent. I learnt that the Romans ruled prominently for over 450 years starting from circa 150 BC!!! Who knows how long their culture or even those of the Greeks permeated into Africa. The English are the last (and most recent) end of the European dominion, with their empire spanning over 400 yrs. The English language is a plagiarised combination of Greek, Latin, German, Spanish, French and Portuguese languages. It is said that English has the least tonal inflexions among the European languages.

Back to your discovery, I think the Greeks would be the best bet for us. I am not completely ruling out the Roman influence. We should completely remove the English from the setting, as their impact only begun around circa 1500 BC.