The Soul - Religion (7) - Nairaland
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Where Do The Soul Of Children And Mad People Go? / The Difference Between The Soul And The Spirit / The SOUL That Sinneth It Shall Die (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 8:24am On Jul 26, 2013 |
Freksy: You contradict your self man... Again the bible says not to fear those that kills the body but he that kills both... He kills the body then destroy the soul in hell... I ask if men kill the body why are the wicked soul go to hell after their body dies? This you did not answer. In revelation if the saint that was slain and as you say people kill the soul... Why are their dead soul crying God how long? Or are they eating after all this years they have been dead? You are behaving like you know too much that's why you dont understand what am saying... Let me tell you again. Man is said to be a living soul... The body with soul = living soul or living being... Body without life equal dead body soul departs from body. In genesis I have been quoting it says how her soul departs from her body... You neglect this verse. I quote Mathew which says fear not people who can kill the body but fear he that kills both the body and the soul in hell... Yet you neglect this part that shows you the distinction of the body and soul and you cling to your verses that describe the body as soul... You forgot that in genesis 2:7 God made body first. He did not make the body and call it soul. Then he put life in it. The body became a living soul. Again our body is a housing for the soul. You kill the body soul departs. QUESTIONS 1: so the soul has blood so are you saying God have blood? 2: are you saying in heaven God eats? 3: again if men can kill the soul... Why are we going to hell when our soul is already dead? On question 3 the bible says God will destroy the soul in hell. The reach man and Lazarus is an example. 4: are you saying the bible was lying when it says men can destroy the body but not the soul? On question 4 do you want to tear out that page or you can admit that the body is called a living soul but when the body is slain the soul departs. Your problem is that you dont know how soul is used. 5: Can you go to a dead body and call it dead soul? Remember genesis. The body was formed and life was put in it and it became living soul. If that life is gone call you call the body dead soul? Wrong again; GOD IS NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN KILL THE SOULhe said men can kill the soul then he said this Soul can also mean, life. Destruction of soul in hell/Gehenna means destruction of life eternally....leaving no prospect for future life - no resurrection hope. Only God can do that. Man can destroy life (soul) - Joshua 11:11, but not in hell/Gehenna. In other words, destruction of life(soul) by man does not take away one's prospect of resurrection to eternal life and blessings. God will do that to wicked in the future - eternal destruction. Since such judicial execution is God's, but not man's, who should we fear? the above is total confusion... first he said not only God can destroy the soul that men can also destroy it... and i ask why do the wicked go to hell for 2nd death if men has already destroy their soul. but see what he says that we dont need hell. We don't need hell. Does the bible say we need it? On the contrary, it says hell will be destroyed forever.now he is saying hell is needed to destroy the soul eternally... you see how confused you are? Now do the wicked die a second death or not? first hell is not needed but hell will be destroyed... still from you hell is needed to destroy the soul eternally [size=28pt]you are confused[/size] your quote Soul can also means 'life'i have always told you soul is distinct from body and it is you that says soul is not... i said man is a living soul man is a soul... but when man kills another man... he kills the man but not the soul. the body is separated from the soul and the body dies... you said men kill the soul because man is also called a living soul. from this statement and the quote above i can say that what shall it profit a soul to gain the whole world and loss his soul does it make sense now? see your problem? you dont know how the bible uses soul that's why. or what shall a soul give in exchange for his soul again does it make sense? nope. I am really confuse on what you believe now cause you keep contradicting your self. Body is part of[b] what made up the soul[/b] as used in Gen. 2:27; Jer 2:34; Joshua 11:11; Lev. 7:18 etc. All living bodies are living souls.body is the part that made up the soul... so does God have Body? i know man is called a living soul because soul is inside him. man needs food for the body to replenish it self without food the body dies and the soul departs simple... Man was a lifeless soul before he became a living soulyou saying soul is a lifeless soul before he became a living soul. lmao confusion. you said soul is life now i can still say you mean man is a lifeless life before he became a living soul or living life... till you understand how the bible use soul you will keep contradicting your self. i used this example cause you said soul is life which i agree with.... where i dont agree is when you fail to see that man dies the soul departs... instead you say as the man dies it is the soul that dies. you are saying man is soul and cannot be separated mean while the bible separate them. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell you and i know that the wicked will be resurrected after they are dead for the first time... their soul will be put back in there body... the bold above shows after resurrection of the wicked and they are judged both their body and soul will be destroyed in hell. according to you... both their soul and soul will be destroyed in hell or both their life and soul will be destroyed in hell or both their life and life will be destroyed in hell... according to your question did Adam exist before he became a living soul... answer is God creates us once... our soul is what he gives and takes at his will... Adam was the only man God directly creates then he puts the soul in the body. today procreation is what is taking place... when a body is formed God puts in the soul... when time for resurrection comes... God will not create everyone again... he will just send back their soul. God doesnt create one person 2 times... or in some case 3 times as Lazarus was resurrected. [size=18pt]Tell me what you think the soul is... from your next post. I know the body is not the Soul because the body is not the person-hood of a man. the body is what have blood and eat so that the man body can be sustained. when the man dies the personality or personhood or soul departs - Genesis 35:18 18 And as her soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin because the soul is inside the body each body you see today walking is called a living soul... as the bible says sometimes. that is my stance. the bible verse here I mean Genesis Does not say the soul dies... but it says it departs[/size] "This day you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43) this is what Jesus tell the thief on the cross. the man did not stop to exist but he went somewhere. 2 Peter 1:13 "I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body" when we die we go somewhere... paul writes Phil 1:21-25 1 "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body." he is talking about their soul remaining in the body... you know the soul is the personhood... it is getting too long i will make new post |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 12:14pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
according to Paul in 1 Thess 4:14 "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him." How could Jesus bring with Him someone that is unconscious in soul sleep? ma guy this shows that when we die our soul go to somewhere, we are with Jesus in heaven. When He returns as promised in the bible, He will take with Him all those who are with him in heaven and they will be reunited with their newly resurrected body. Jesus cannot bring the saints with him unless they are already with Him. It is not the soul that dies when we die, it is the body! It is not the soul or spirit that decays and returns to dust, it is the body! Our spirit returns to God. Jesus Himself made sure we knew this fact when he completed His last words on the cross: Luke 23:46 "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When He had said this, He breathed His last. same with stephen Stephen's last words were very similar: Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." He was not looking forward to an die his soul dies. He awaited the immediate fellowship with His Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. When someone we care for dies, we are sad and we do miss that person. the are better place the person can go. They are with Jesus. Death is not our final trip to oblivion. It is a homecoming with our Heavenly loving Father. paul said in Ps 116:15 "Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints." How can death be precious to God, if His children are unconscious? It is precious because God's children are joined to Him at death. If your body is being ravaged by an incurable disease, look up to heaven and look forward to be joined with Jesus. Jesus said in Matt 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." There is nothing to be afraid of when facing death. Your dreams will finally come true and you will be with Jesus. You will see Jesus and be with Him, because you have met Him and knew Him while you were on this planet. Jesus words are true! He said about His Heavenly Father Matt 22:32 "…I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." And John 11:26 "whoever lives and believes in me will never die." NIV As well as John 8:51 "I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." NIV How can these promises be true if you proclaim that the soul dies! God is not to be mocked. He is the God of the living and Jesus promised we would never die. How? Our physical body may die, but our soul and spirit lives on to be with Jesus in heaven! Jesus explains this promise clearly in And John 11:25-26 "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" it began to look more interesting when we read about people who were resurrected... 1 Kings 17:17-24 17 And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him. 18 And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son? 19 And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed. 20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? 21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. 22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. 23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth. 24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth. recall Genesis 35:18 18 And as her soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin... here her soul was departing... but Elijah ask God to bring back the soul of the boy... and it says the Soul Came back again... "again" means for the second time his soul is coming into him. God did not create another soul and put in him... it says his soul- meaning same soul that left came back. if the boy is a dead soul like you said why will a soul have to come into a dead soul? i dont even know how to ask you this question... the Boy's soul was dead. so how can dead soul be put into a dead soul? because you say the soul dies and the bible say his soul came back... if he soul died it means the dead soul was put into the dead soul. |
| Re: The Soul by truthislight: 4:55pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
frosbel: Smh. Sometimes take it slowly. Not too hasty. |
| Re: The Soul by truthislight: 5:06pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
Chibuebem: My life is about the power of God. The power of his spirit and the life in his word. Why do i know the feelings of emptiness in our discussions? Has the church abandoned the power that gives it life? Have we lost our taste and become ordinary to the world. No. Revival is coming. It is upon us. Let us walk in the reality of Gods word, in the power of his spirit in his mighty name. "And this is life eternal, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. " (John 17:3). "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4). |
| Re: The Soul by Nobody: 6:47pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
1 Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. |
| Re: The Soul by Nobody: 12:34pm On Jul 27, 2013 |
1Cor 14;14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. D post before this corroborates with this dt d spirit of man is beyond just a breath as @frosbel will hv us believe. You r a spirit living in a body |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 4:14pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
benalvino: Everyone - good and bad, goes to hell after death. Even Jesus went to hell after his death and was resurrected from there. At death life expires and the body becomes rotten in hell. Jesus went to hell, was he wicked?
Abel was a righteous man, he was killed by his wicked brother. If you can understand why his blood was crying out to God, then you will know why the dead righteous souls were also crying to God like Abel's rigteous blood.
At Genesis 35:18, "breath" is translated to mean "soul". In that context, soul simply means "breath". When the breath leaves the body, it does not become conscious and survive on its own elsewhere. (18) "And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin." - Genesis 35:18 (KJV) (18) "But she was dying, and as she breathed her last, she named her son Benoni, but his father named him Benjamin." - Genesis 35:18 (GNT) Think about the life breath of Gen 2:7, now it's gradually "departing". Soon, the living soul will no longer be living, but dead, and will later return to dust. Compare Ps 104:29. IN THE ABOVE CONTEXT, SOUL SIMPLY MEANS "BREATH". Is the life breath translated as soul conscious, can it survive outside your body at death?
In the bible, soul is used to mean more than one thing. It can be different from the body, depending on its usage. Soul can mean: 1. Our present life 2. Our prospects for future life. 3. Our breath, or life breath 4. Man 5. Animal .... It's easy to know when any of these is used as soul by considering the context in which the word "soul" is used. Moreover, none of the above listed usage suggests that there is a spirit part of man that can literally survive outside the human body.
You forgot that in genesis 2:7 God made man first. He did not make man and call it body. Then he put the breath of life in him. Man became a living soul. When the breath of life departs, man returns to dust. |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 4:14pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
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| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 4:27pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
benalvino: Not everything described as soul has blood. For example, breath is sometimes translated to mean soul. Breath is immaterial, hence, has no blood. Man and animals are also souls. They have flesh and blood. God has life and is a spirit. Spirits do not have blood.
In the bible, it's not everything called "soul", eats. For example, "life", as an immaterial thing, does not eat.
By "our soul", what do you mean? Are you referring to "Our breath", or "our life"? There is nothing conscious that can escape from the body at death. Hell is the place for the dead. I don't understand why you would like to be put there alive.
Is that so, where will He destroy the body?
No, it's just that you don't understand the meaning of Jesus' statement at Matt.10:28. Killing of the body means, destruction of present life. Killing of the soul means, destruction of prospects for future life Man can kill the body - the present life, but cannot kill the soul - our prospect for future life. God can and will undo any damage done to his faithful servants by man, even resurrecting them. It is Him alone who is worthy of our fear, our profound awe and respect. He alone has the power to take away life and all prospects for future life, destroying both body and soul in hell/Gehenna....eternal and final destruction that will take place after judgement.
1. If what you are saying is true, and if you truly understand what Jesus meant at Matt 10:28, why did the souls of those that Joshua slain at Hazor not depart? (11) And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire. -Joshua 11:11 (KJV) How else do you want the bible to render it before you believe?
Ok sir
Yes, because the bible says a dead body, is a dead soul. |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 5:03pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
Freksy: at your first response... Jesus said to the thief today, you will be with me in Heaven. - did Jesus lie? lazarus and the rich man... did Jesus lie there also? the transfiguration... Moses was with Jesus along with Elijah discussing - was Moses still alive then? As for her soul departing there is no dispute there also because same bible tells you the body and soul are different.... whether God have body or not you did not answer as you say soul is the body... but me i know that soul is the person-hood... that is in the body... |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 5:09pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
benalvino: Yes, because the bible supports that. Moreover, consider the following: "Living soul", is written as two words. 1. "Living" 2. "Soul" When something has life, it is said to be "living". Conversely, when its life is gone, it is said to be "dead". A living soul means, soul with life. A dead soul means, soul without life.
"And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire. -Joshua 11:11 (KJV)
So Jesus that went to hell was wicked, and was there waiting for his 2nd death?
Ok, tell me what YOU want to use hell for.
You said we need hell. Mention what YOU are going to use it for, if you don't, then you are the one that is confused.
You will be the chief executioner, that is why YOU need it? You don't know what you are saying. Read about Gehenna, and stop spreading falsehood. If you do, would have a deeper understanding of Matt 10:28, and why I used, "hell/Gehenna", instead of just "hell", when I responded to your quote.
You see those on bold? What do you call that? |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 5:27pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
Freksy: Now we are saying same thing... the body is describe as a living soul because it is housing the soul... the body is what have blood... so the soul cannot bleed but the body can. not everything eats.. but the soul is an immaterial part of man... By soul i mean the person-hood which is the immaterial part of a man... i have trying to show you that the soul and the body are distinct and you are beginning to see it... when we die our body goes to the grave our soul departs... Jesus made it clear that he will be in paradise while his body was in the grave... No, it's just that you don't understand the meaning of Jesus' statement at Matt.10:28. [size=18pt]just recently you were saying man kill the soul... now they kill the body but cannot kill the soul... thank you thats all i wanted you to note... that the body is different from the soul... [/size] now you are coming to my line of thinking... men cannot kill the soul you just agreed... therefore the soul is not bleeding but the body based on your statement... but our body can be said to be a living soul you know. |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 5:31pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
fresky you remember when i was talking about you need to understand how soul is used... before me and you start debating i said a body can be refered as living soul and also said spirit and soul are used interchangeably... angels are spirits their soul is their person-hood... they dont have body like humans... Same with God. Soul is used in various ways and from what i have seen you are saying the soul bleed as in the immaterial part of the body... when it really means the body bleeds... |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 5:42pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
benalvino: "For what does it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life"? Mr 8:36 World English Bible (WEB)
Pretence!
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul"? Mr 8:36 (KJV) "For what does it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life"? Mr 8:36 World English Bible (WEB) In this case, soul simply means "life"... Keep pretending that you don't understand.
He has a spirit body, and He has life. Remember, soul also means, "life".
At death what departs is life breath, which is sometimes translated to mean soul. Breath is not conscious. Breath cannot survive outside the body.
What stopped you from substituting life for soul when you quoted Mark 8:36 and see whether it will not suit the context in which the word "soul" was used?
"And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword , utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire" Joshua 11:11 - KJV
It was addressed. [/quote] Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell [/quote] Can any man kill the body in hell/Gehenna? If no, why? Your response will show how you understand what Jesus said at Matt10:28.
You mean "the breath of life" through his nostrils, or something else?
Very interesting! He puts the soul at what stage of human pregnancy? He does same in animals? |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 5:51pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
Freksy: Do men have to kill the body in hell? they just poison the body and it dies... but the poison doesnt kill the soul... the body in put in hell... it is not killed in hell... but God destroy the body and soul in hell . |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 6:24pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
benalvino: Paraphrase the statement in my comment that agrees with the bolded
Point to the scripture that supports your definition.
benalvino: Freksy: I told you long before now, what and what can be translated as soul. As you can see, every bit of what you have presented so far, fits, at least, one of them. None is capable of surviving outside man, so review your stance. |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 6:54pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
benalvino: If your usage of the word, "soul" means something else other than the "breath", then, you are absolutely wrong. The context must suit it, as well as agree with other related scriptures. (29) "When you turn away, they are afraid; when you take away your breath, they die and go back to the dust from which they came. (30) But when you give them breath, they are created; you give new life to the earth." -Psalms 104:29-30 (GNTCE) The above agrees perfectly with Gen 2:7; Gen 35:18 and 1kings 17:21-22
"And if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings be eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be imputed unto him that offereth it: it shall be an abomination, and t[b]he soul that eateth[/b] of it shall bear his iniquity. - Leviticus 7:18 - (KJV) "Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these." - Jeremiah 2:34 - (KJV) SOUL ALSO MEANS, MAN - - - SOUL EATS; SOUL HAS BLOOD
Here, the word "soul" means "breath" (18) "But she was dying, and as she breathed her last, she named her son Benoni, but his father named him Benjamin." - Genesis 35:18 (GNT) (18) "With her last breath, for she was now dying, she named him Ben–oni (Son–of–My–Pain), but his father named him Ben–jamin (Son–of–Good–Fortune)." - Genesis 35:18 (MSG)
According to Gen 35:18, soul = What? Can the breath that gradually leaves the body at death survive elsewhere? What did God breath into the nostrils of Adam? Does the use of breath at Gen 35:18 agrees with Gen 2:7? YES! What about Ps 104:29-30? (29) "When you turn away, they are afraid;when you take away your breath, they die and go back to the dust from which they came. (30) But when you give them breath, they are created;you give new life to the earth." - Psalms 104:29-30 (GNTCE) Now that the scripture has spoken for itself, answer the question: Can the breath leave the body at death and survive elsewhere? |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 7:00pm On Jul 29, 2013 |
Freksy: paraphrase wetin again? lol i told you that if the soul have blood then God must have blood in Heaven... you say God get spirit body? how is that? i dont know that spirit have body. |
| Re: The Soul by Image123(m): 12:14am On Jul 30, 2013 |
frosbel: Stop getting emotional and accusatory, I did not deliberately cut it out of your post.Here is what i said, and it is the truth. "Yes oh, blood cried. that is what the bible said and i gave you three places where the Bible said it. You deliberately cut it out of my post to make your point to the gullible. here they are again." Blood crying is a symbolic language used to depict the testimony of a thing , in the case of Abel his innocence , in the case of Jesus the atonement and remission of sins. What is with you and word jangle. What is a testimony? Is a testimony unreal? Is a testimony not evidence, proof and verification? i gave you three witnesses from scriptures that prove that blood speaks, instances been that of Abel and of Jesus. God told Cain that his brother's blood was speaking. Also, the Holy Spirit tells us in Hebrews that Jesus' blood is speaking better things than Abel's. Yes, they are testifying. You may choose to believe it or find yet another word to obfuscate issues. i choose to believe God's Word. Don't tell me that the blood of Jesus is not speaking for me, and helping me to overcome the devil. If you do not believe in the literal, i do. And if you are interested in forcing us to believe otherwise, you would do well to tell us what God's Word is symbolic of. We are not Muslims or Catholics who discourage questions and curiosity. If Truth is Truth it must stand the test of scrutiny.Christians do not ask foolish questions in the name of standing the test of scrutiny. i don't need to bombard a loved one with an exam to prove that their love is real. i do not need to do all sorts of test on my family so that they stand the mighty test of scrutiny. You are not testing all things, you are simply showing your unbelief of plain scripture passages and seeking to force such on the undiscerning. Talk about testing all things, you continue to fail in that area. i remember asking you if you have eternal life and till date you haven't given an answer that clearly states so. i remember you saying that the christian God is not your God. i remember asking you if any of Jesus' words and parables are impossible. You fled like the devil from such tests, perhaps you do not have this light that you are baying about. Surely, you should be astounded because i was too. You said "The whole book of revelation just like Daniel is prophetic and symbolic" And by that you are implying that nothing in the books can be understood plainly but must be given some private meaning approved by frosb. i simply quoted to you a verse out of many others that abound, that is straight and simple for any literate to understand. Here it is again. 1. That it is symbolic is not in question. i never objected that fact or even raised it. That it is symbolic does not mean that one cannot read and comprehend. Dan 1:1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it. What is the above verse symbolic of? Do we need some spirit to interpret this simple grammar to us? John saw a future revelation, and he used very symbolic language just like Jesus used parables to describe future events.And this is your reply to this below? i would be surprised if you could withstand it, you're a true Libertine. Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? What is this symbolic of? Is this not plain enough english that any body should understand? All these trying to hold us to ransom by private interpretation would not work. Some people tried it in the past by making all scriptures latin. Now you are here waving symbolic in our faces like we should all go and sleep since it is symbolic. Sorry, we also have the Spirit of God. i see you could not cope with the rest of the post. It's a similar thing you did with that post filled with pearls as regards this thread(that Ben gave). You were more interested in diversions and the source of the article. As usual, your aim was not to comprehend the truth stated but to look for faults from the author. You are past learning, or is it 'ever learning'. Your aim is to confuse and frustrate others until they 'fall'.then you can condemn them and say "see christian". i have warned you before and will state it again, your pride is a big problem in your life. |
| Re: The Soul by Nobody: 8:42am On Jul 30, 2013 |
^^ I really do not have the time to address ALL your emotional outbursts. What you need is to stop following and listening to the WOF or WOLF movement, and maybe you will begin to understand the gospel.  |
| Re: The Soul by Image123(m): 5:03pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
frosbel: ^^ It's the same way your handler flees when i make effort to resist him, i'm not bothered. |
| Re: The Soul by Nobody: 5:11pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Image123: And you should not be , we can agree to disagree. |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 10:13pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
benalvino: The question was: CAN man kill the body in Hell/Gehenna? If NO, WHY? benalvino: Can you show me the bolded in the scripture?
Lie about what?
When the transfiguration or the vision occurred, Moses was conscious of nothing at all, for he had died centuries earlier. Like David, he had not been resurrected and therefore was not personally present. (Acts 2:29-31) (5) "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten". -Eccl 9:5 (KJV) The transfiguration was a vision ment to strengthen the faith of Jesus' disciples that he was the promised messiah, but not Elijah or Moses or one of the prophets, as many of them previously thought. That is why, in the occasion his father spoke: (5)...This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. -Matthew 17:5 (KJV) The vision buried all their doubts concerning the messiahship of Jesus. It built their faith up in him. Give your own explanation and answer the following question on bold. Elijah and Moses appeared from where, 'hell' or heaven?
Get the point: the soul on bold is life BREATH. Can your breath leave you and survive elsewhere? (18) "But she was dying, and as she breathed her last, she named her son Benoni, but his father named him Benjamin." - Genesis 35:18 (GNT)
Point to the scripture that supports your definition of soul. benalvino: fresky you remember when i was talking about you need to understand how soul is used... before me and you start debating i said a body can be refered as living soul and also said spirit and soul are used interchangeably... What is the difference between spirit and what you call "soul"... Please support with scriptures
Do they have body at all?
It's Jeremiah that said it, not me. Prove him wrong let me see. "Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these." - Jeremiah 2:34 - (KJV) Contextually, those souls were humans, they bled. Argue with Jeremiah. benalvino: If spirits have bodies, would that not destroy your stance the more? Remember, they are immaterial. That would imply, immaterial having immaterial imbedded in them. Or spirits, having spirits inside them. |
| Re: The Soul by karlie4nia(m): 3:11am On Jul 31, 2013 |
Well, i wonder what is essential that one purposes to achieve by all em intellectual gambit... everyone wants their own point of view to be the correct and accepted one... quoting scriptures like we are analyzing some line in some novel. I think just a miserable vicious circle of polemics..theories... thesis and antithesis that is only leaves a honest seeker with the option of drinking the bitter glass of doubt. If we do not have all the pieces of the puzzle together, then we waste our time in trying to get the truth. peace. |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 8:42am On Jul 31, 2013 |
Freksy: I think the answer to your questions are here https://www.nairaland.com/1362779/soul/3#16938586 |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 9:23am On Jul 31, 2013 |
benalvino: It's obvious you don't have answer to those questions. |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 9:42am On Jul 31, 2013 |
Freksy: dude you ask me where did Jesus say today you will be with me in paradise i gave you a link that have all the verses... about the transfiguration... its a vision doesn't mean it is not real... remember the dream Daniel interpret. will you say it is not real because of it was a dream? how about the revelation shown the the apostle about Jesus? that is fake too because it is a Vision? Moses and elijah was talking to Jesus so yes it happens. Jesus was transfigured and that is how he was describe in revelations. about the person hood... it is our soul the bible refers to as the person of us... our body is only a housing for the soul... you confirmed this by saying sometimes the body is referred to as the soul some times it means another thing... that is what i have been saying all this time. Yes man cannot kill the body in the grave... the body is always killed on earth. But God kills the soul along with the body in hell... the apostles believes in spirits... that means they believe about life after death because they thought Jesus was a spirit... you said God is a spirit and he has soul and i agree... but men also have spirit and soul and if you kill the soul the spirit stops to exist if you kill the body the spirit and soul exist. simple. |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 2:57pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
benalvino: benalvino:
In the book of Daniel there is this vision of an immense image. The head was of gold, the chest of silver... and the feet of mixture of clay and iron. That vision was real much like that of the three disciples. Have you ever seen an image of a man or animal that fits such description? Yet, the vision was real. Like I said earlier, those men are still in the grave. None of them was personally present. Ok, Elijah and Moses appeared from where, hell or heaven?
Scriptural support, please.
Yes, you are correct, the body is a soul. The body with life, is a living soul; the body without life, is a dead soul. I would like you to also know that there is nothing immaterial that the bible has ever referred to as 'soul' that can survive outside your body. The breath, or life breath, cannot leave the body and survive at death.
Man is a soul, and he has body. If you kill a man outside hell/symbolic Gehenna, you only succeed in ending his present life. But if you can kill him in hell/symbolic Gehenna, then you have ended everything about him - present and future prospect for life. It's only God that can do that. That is the import of Matt 10:28. Jesus did not teach that something immaterial can escape death and start surviving elsewhere.
Jesus, apostles and I, believe in life after death. There will be life after death through resurrection. When that day comes, many will rise from the grave.
Do spirits have body? In what sense can it be said that God has soul, or is a soul? Is it in the sense that He has life, or life breath, or immaterial thing that can survive outside His body, "in case He dies"? Does the bolded mean when man dies two things - spirit and soul survive outside his body? |
| Re: The Soul by Freksy(m): 2:57pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
. |
| Re: The Soul by benalvino(m): 5:14pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
Freksy: wrong elijah ascended to heaven... he never died according to the bible... the transfiguration is real because Jesus was exactly how he was describe in revelation and yes Moses and Elijah are in the bosom of the lord. when the spirit or the soul leaves the body dies you want bible proofs. ok. Revelation 18:13 (ESV) 13 cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls. human soul here is indicating that humans(body) have soul in them... in other words it is not referring humans as soul here. Psalm 16:9–10 (ESV) 9 therefore my heart is glad, and my whole being rejoices; my flesh also dwells secure. 10 For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption. again here the flesh is not said to be soul... Psalm 42:6-11 New International Version (NIV) 6 My soul is downcast within me; therefore I will remember you from the land of the Jordan, the heights of Hermon—from Mount Mizar. 7 Deep calls to deep in the roar of your waterfalls; all your waves and breakers have swept over me. 8 By day the Lord directs his love, at night his song is with me— a prayer to the God of my life. 9 I say to God my Rock, “Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?” 10 My bones suffer mortal agony as my foes taunt me, saying to me all day long, “Where is your God?” 11 Why, my soul, are you downcast? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God. you can see the soul is withing the body... you say there is nothing immaterial about the soul... can you say God is material being? can you see him? what about the angels? 3 John 1:2 1The elder to the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth. 2Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers. again this is showing that the soul is withing the body. can you leave the kill the man in hell talk? its not possible... and they bible have told you that you cannot kill the soul but the body... the verses above shows that the body have a soul withing it. why still arguing with this one. dude the apostle saw jesus thinking he was a spirit... they believe in spirit it is not about the resurrection of saint it something that happens before their very eyes. after samuel died he appeared to saul and discuss with him... 1 Samuel 28:1-20 New International Version (NIV) 28 In those days the Philistines gathered their forces to fight against Israel. Achish said to David, “You must understand that you and your men will accompany me in the army.” 2 David said, “Then you will see for yourself what your servant can do.” Achish replied, “Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life.” Saul and the Medium at Endor 3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land. 4 The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all Israel and set up camp at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6 He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7 Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.” “There is one in Endor,” they said. 8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.” 9 But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?” 10 Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this.” 11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” “Bring up Samuel,” he said. 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!” 13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?” The woman said, “I see a ghostly [/b]figure coming up out of the earth.” 14 “What does he look like?” he asked. “An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. 15 [b]Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” “I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.” 16 Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18 Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19 The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.” 20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night. Luke 20:37-38 New International Version 37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a] 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” Ecclesiastes 12:7 New International Version (NIV) 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from and the spirit returns to God who gave it. as you can see from the verse spirit Goes back to God spirit appears and talk to people... while the spirit and the soul are distinct it is hard to differentiate. |
| Re: The Soul by Nobody: 5:18pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
^^^^ The case of Samuel was not Samuel himself , it was a a familiar spirit. I have a question for you anyway : If a MAN dies, where do the following parts of him go to : 1. Body ? 2. Soul ? 3. Spirit ? Don't duck my question. Thanks. |
| Re: The Soul by Nobody: 5:38pm On Jul 31, 2013 |
frosbel: ^^^^ if you can duck others, what makes him not to duck yours  |
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