tdayof:


The Russians have a good record in Syria but damn these guys aren't reacting well to US provocations therefore making them look like a barking dog.

i was sarcastic but you are right... you know they have to show restraint to avoid WWIII.

The truck used to tow is a left steer. I read an article years back how they couldn't find a powerful truck on the local market so they had to import. It got everyone talking when it pulled out an 18-wheeler with its load from the Crocodile Gorge, that's a kilometre down a cliff then towed it off for 30km like a boss

guys chill no wars gonna happen between US and Russia

and if its gonna happen

it will never happen in their territory

Europe , Asia and Africa will be the likely ground for bikini wrestling between the 2 without direct involvement



if one escapes the attraction of X , by default it ends up with Y and vice versa

everybody ends up feeding either X or Y for a price , this pretty arrangement suits both well

why change status quo

rhetoric dont harm anybody , so keep up the charade for mutual benefit

tdayof:



Thanks, never knew France also has some overseas territory.

However without Chad, Cameroon and others they won't be able to do much in projecting power if they have to depend on their overseas territory in Africa.

I call them the French puppet states.

nemesis4u:
guys chill no wars gonna happen between US and Russia

and if its gonna happen

it will never happen in their territory

Europe , Asia and Africa will be the likely ground for bikini wrestling between the 2

Russia can't fight beyond it's attached borders, they don't have the means.

frumentius:
I know kikuyu1, mikeCZA, and 61mech have views on this:
it is way past time to retire Grandad's WW2 Ma Deuce. Hell, even the little Hornet can carry the 20mm GA-1. Get rid of the Browning and mount the GA-1 on all our combat land vehicles - Geckos, Hornets, Mambas and Casspirs (I know the GA-1 is WW2 vintage also, but as patches689 says, it's all about the dakka) .

I can't wait to see the Inkunzi Strike - at 13 kg and 85 cm, smaller and lighter than the Browning; automatic belt feed firing 350 round/minute of the innovative 20X42mm round in HEI, SAPHEI, etc - mounted on the Hornet.

The 20 m GA-1 def ballistically outperforms the Ma Deuce. Imo its an intermediate round between the .5 BMG and 30 mm. Performance wise its actually not far from the 14.5 mm:

[b] The projectile has a muzzle velocity of approximately 1,006 meters per second and can penetrate 30-32 millimeters of RHA steel at an incidence of 0 degrees at a range of 500 meters, or 40 millimeters at a range of 100 meters.[[/b]1][2][3]
B-32: Armor-piercing incendiary full metal jacket round with a hardened steel core. Projectile weight is 64 g and muzzle velocity is 1006 m/s. Armour penetration at 500 m is 32 mm of RHA at 90 degrees.
BZT: Armor-piercing incendiary tracer full metal jacket round with a steel core. Projectile weight is 59.56 g and muzzle velocity is 1,006 m/s. Tracer burns to at least 2,000 m.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14.5%C3%97114mm[/url]

While half the weight the Inkunzi strike has only half the RoF of the BMG and/or KPV 14.5 mm. Btw,this is standard for Vlad AFVs. IIRC a Ratel ZT 3 crew was KIA in Angola 88 from this beast.

frumentius:
This response leaves me cold. As I've always said, we post here as individuals. I was perplexed at the individual voters in Imo State who elected, and dare I say, continue to support a governor who pulls such stunts as honouring Jacob Zuma.
I am encouraged by the many respondents here who've objected to iblawi's crude collectivist smear of individual Nigerians who happen to share some traits with the clown who currently governs Imo State.

Hopefully, this enlightened posture will endure and be applied when the usual charlatans seek to deviously escape individual accountability by portraying particular contretemps as generalised nationalistic conflicts i.e. a random couple who happen to possess Nigerian passports disagreeing with me being portrayed as "Nigeria vs South Africa".

What can I say, I'm just an naive Afro-optimist!

P.S. iblawi, mate, that "apology" insults everyone here.

Idk all the details,but I do know this: Zuma hasn't been found guilty of anything. They tried to get him on false rape claims;attempted to pin him on Marikana mine shootings and hold him personally responsible for the rands fall. Imo,Saffers should look at the string pullers BEHIND all this ishyt. There are deeper issues involving the BRICS;I hope you know many were extremely PO'd when you joined that org.

kikuyu1:


The 20 m GA-1 def ballistically outperforms the Ma Deuce. Imo its an intermediate round between the .5 BMG and 30 mm. Performance wise its actually not far from the 14.5 mm:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14.5%C3%97114mm[/url]

Also the Inkunzi strike has only half the RoF of the BMG and/or KPV 14.5 mm.

RoF is lower but one must not discount the added effect of the HEI explosive. A 14.5mm could go through a armored wind screen but the 20mm HEI would explode and kill, wound or blind the driver and from t seat passenger of say a MRAP. And firing at long ranges where accuracy is a issue a 2Omm HEI is still deadly since it does not need to hit.


In short the InKunzi provides the range and accuracy of a Heavy Machine gun with the explosive power of a grenade launcher all while weighing less.


But yeah I see the GA1 as a better 12.7mm replacement for vehicles where the Inkunzi is better for a replacement for the motorized and airborne forces 12.7 all so the I Kunzi would be great door gun for orxy and A109s, could see it used on navy small boats and River patrol boats. So yeah I see both options being used. I mean at 13kg the Inkunzi could be mounted on a 7.62mm gun mounting. Of course the other thing g is one should never discount the RoF of say the Ss77.

ActivateKruger:


Russia can't fight beyond it's attached borders, they don't have the means.

yeah

but the question to be asked is do they need to

ActivateKruger:


Russia can't fight beyond it's attached borders, they don't have the means.

The only reason for that is that Russia don't have a world police foreign policy like Uncle Sam. On the other hand no one will ever win a war on Russian soil either.

But on the flip side Russia has by far the best developed ICBM Systems to destroy any place on earth without leaving its borders.

MikeCZA:
The defence force should convert one of the motorized battalions into a light rapid response battalion to relieve and support the paras.

Able to respond to raiders or enemy special forces operating in the rears. An excuse to equip them with the CSIR Light tactical vehicle and other cool stuff.

This, so much this. It would be cheap to!

Convert a moto inf into a sort of light cav outfit.

lionel4power:

judging by the your reply and that of MIKECZA the 2 response have a lot in common.......Which obviously they do since it revolves around the same subject.


.
so now you understand my response.
Don't take it personal.

Well you basically accused me of being a ret@rd.....but its coming from you so i wont take it personally

BTW judging by your response im guessing you wrote the article? In which case don't take Mike's post(or mine) personally

frumentius:


At $120K for 1 complete UAV system comprising 2 day helicopters, 2 night helicopters, a base station, controller, display unit, simulator and operator training, only SF, STF, PPU and the domestic spooks of the SSA will get it.
Joburg Metro apparently has a Specops unit and they're rumoured to also be interested.
Law enforcement has quad-copters.

But yes, battalion and brigade level drones are much-needed. Some of us cannot understand why Military Intelligence acquired Seeker 400s ahead of 10 Squadron SAAF. Their brief is strategic, not tactical. Plus they're such a law unto themselves the Denel Dynamics guys training them can't wait to be rid of them.

Nah man, you are looking at it the wrong way - it could be very do-able and on the cheap as well. Its simply a question of scaling.

The high end, purpose built, military grade stuff for peer-adversaries would conceivably not require a big order. Assuming we could only really maintain a brigade in the field beyond our borders for any extended period of time.

So you are looking at 2 brigade level systems (one for deployment, one for training) and 3-6 or 4-8 battalion level systems (again, deployment v training). With the brigade and battalion level systems being operated by a unit of specialists (SAAF?) whom would plug into the formation upon deployment or during pre-deployment. Thus negating the need for every battalion to maintain organic high-spec drone capabilities, and in so doing reduce the total number of systems to be acquired.

Then, at the bottom end of the scale, you would rely an civilian grade off the shelf equipment for soldiers deployed on internal ops such as; area-security (bases), border patrol, police assistance and disaster relief. These systems would be relatively inexpensive and the only conceivable adaption required would be to insure that they are protected against rudimentary jamming and hacking - you dont want a sophisticated gang of smugglers to get a peek into your live-feed. Obviously you would not integrate them into LinkZA or into CHAKA.

andrewza:




Denel all ready has experience with the mi17, it carries a lot and with the right modification would be perfect. O ly issue is that the modification to both African proof and westernize the systems and logistics would cost a lot.


Personally I say go proper let's get the merlin.

Mi-17 strikes me is being unweildly. EC725/H225M for the win.

Can fellow Saffers please explain to me why Joburg Metro Police has a SWAT unit? Smells suspiciously of someone wanting to operate operationally . Surely any incident requiring such a unit would be kicked up to SAPS ?
Didn't even know they existed until I heard they were also interested in the Black Hornet Nano UAV.
Investigated and they're actually currently testing the SIG SG 516 Patrol !

It's a city police department whose mandate is to enforce city by-laws, FFS!!!

frumentius:
Can fellow Saffers please explain to me why Joburg Metro Police has a SWAT unit? Smells suspiciously of someone wanting to operate operationally . Surely any incident requiring such a unit would be kicked up to SAPS ?
Didn't even know they existed until I heard they were also interested in the Black Hornet Nano UAV.
Investigated and they're actually currently testing the SIG SG 516 Patrol !

It's a city police department whose mandate is to enforce city by-laws, FFS!!!

Some times Hawkers really want to sell a umbrella with out any paperwork.

jln115:

Well you basically accused me of being a ret@rd.....but its coming from you so i wont take it personally

BTW judging by your response im guessing you wrote the article? In which case don't take Mike's post(or mine) personally

the cannon shell was already pointing on MikeCZA head... but as a true African gentleman you took the round for him... Hehehe

frumentius:
Speaking of medium-lift helicopters, in 2025 we'll have to replace our 39 Oryx. We missed a trick by closing the production line and selling the un-used Puma air frames which could've formed the base for Oryx2. As it is, our current Oryx is on par with the latest Airbus H225M. With budgets being as niggardly, we won't afford the H225M.

2 choices really: new Mil Mi-17s which we would have to modify for African conditions (as we did with the Puma); or used Black Hawks which we'd also need to similarly modify.
Personally, I'd plumb for the slightly used carefully-chosen UH-60.

you can go for Mi171 or Mi38 dey have similar capacity to your oryx

Speaking of SIG, the P226 pistol is now the issued personal sidearm of 5 Recce. 4 Recce hasn't decided. Not sure allowing the 2 regiments to determine preferences is a good idea in the current fiscal environment; SASF Brigade should've liaised with SAPS STF and PPU CAT (also Pathfinders?) on a common testing program and resultant firearm. To use the US Tier system, those 4 qualify as our Tier 1 units and should maximise their budgets by exploiting commonalities.

An aside: a few SF mates at both 4&5 are sticking to their Browning Hi Powers .

tdayof:


The Russians have a good record in Syria but damn these guys aren't reacting well to US provocations therefore making them look like a barking dog.

the Russians silence in Syria is annoying, even Israel is flexing its muscle

giles14:
you can go for Mi171 or Mi38 dey have similar capacity to your oryx

To kick this off, the MI-38 has been completely ruled out for reasons I shan't go into.

Capacity isn't the problem; performance is -especially in "hot and high" conditions prevalent in the greater SADC region. This is not an idle boast; Denel Aviation has extensive experience on the Mi-17 as an MRO and they're seriously underwhelmed by its utility in the African space.
We'd only buy them because they're cheap - if our financial situation hasn't changed by 2025 - but we'd also have to expend resources on modifying them to our Oryx performance standards.

BTW, that's not a dissing statement: it's simply a factual statement that says this is the performance required of a medium-lift helicopter by the SAAF; helicopter A & B either meet that standard or they do not, their provenance notwithstanding.

The argument at JOps currently goes along these lines: Black Hawk, Hip and Super Cougar are the only realistic replacements for Oryx, seeing we threw away our option at a domestic solution (the Turkish TAI program was removed early on when it transpired the entire thing was based on working off an Agusta platform - on this thread alone you'd know we Saffers don't think highly of Agusta ), and capacity is a settled issue. Let's then examine which meet our performance requirements and standards. [at some point it was determined that the Airbus Super Cougar was simply too expensive, though it was the preferred choice on performance considerations alone).

Black Hawk and Hip will be cheaper, utilising various funding mechanisms, though performance lags. Then the question becomes:
what are the modification and lifetime costs to bring them up to our performance standard consistently over the entire life cycle?
Empirically, Black Hawk won - as do most western products over East when we in SA consider armaments we're not currently making ourselves - though I'm told Airbus is busy preparing a better proposal so the Super Cougar may be back in the running.

giles14:
the Russians silence in Syria is annoying, even Israel is flexing its muscle

Do you really think Israel strikes Syrian targets without coordinating with Russia?

patches689:


This, so much this. It would be cheap to!

Convert a moto inf into a sort of light cav outfit.

You won't find any objection from those of us in the service. But how are the Reserves treated?
Actually scratch that! How is the entire military treated?

MoD staff really should grow a spine...I can't say more. Send me a PM and maybe some of us can start shining light on some of the darker putrid corners?

frumentius:


You won't find any objection from those of us in the service. But how are the Reserves treated?
Actually scratch that! How is the entire military treated?

MoD staff really should grow a spine...I can't say more. Send me a PM and maybe some of us can start shining light on some of the darker putrid corners?

Start by creating a throw-away email account and linking it to a new nairaland account

Gotta take precautions against doxxing

MOGADISHU suicide bombing - Uganda UPDF help in rescue operation.

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oirUYGuQfFE

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/10/8-division-nigerian-army-takes-off-sokoto/
Does anyone know what type of composition the 8 division will be.

Egypt air force MIG-29M2 pilot

Soldiers Invade Militants’ Camp In Delta State; Recover Ammunition, Destroy Shrines
Nigerian troops attached to Operation Crocodile Smile II seized ammunition belonging to suspected Niger Delta militants after storming their camp on Tuesday.

AndrewZa, how do you guys get anything done in this beautiful city? Wind-surfing at Blouberg this morning, defended my Master's thesis at Stellies this afternoon, going to a Michelin star restaurant for supper this evening.
As a 17-year old when I came to UCT for my undergraduate studies 2 decades ago, this was a sleepy collection of villages .

Now I could be in Barcelona, San Francisco or the better non-3rd World Mediterranean sections of Croatia!!!

Hrmnn, driving to AFB Overberg on Friday and will stop over at Somerset West for the pics I promised.

The Russian military is designed to successfully fight 2000 miles away from its borders. That is why countries that fall under this radius are always afraid of a Russian invasion.