Cameroonian

former Chief of the Kenya Defence Forces general karangi visit kenyan troops in kismayo

kenyan air force Y-12 aircraft

UAE provide the somali police with MRAP's and other vehicles

Henry120:


They just have to see the need for MRAPS or more armour like the Ugandans and to a large extent KDF does.

With better armour the ambush would surely have played out differently. Air assets are a significant force multiplier, but we simply cannot call in one at every ambush. It is just not affordable.


Doing things properly from ground up, i.e, providing adequate protection to troops on the ground remains the most practical step.

what also helped kenyan troops even in situation such as this that befell ethiopian is kenya use of it air assets especially MD500 and Z-9 Gunships.i have watched an alshabaab propaganda video where after attacking kenya troops and jubbaland force ,alshabaab members can be seen hiding under a tree when they saw a MD500 orbiting by and its even reported that our helicopter gunships have dealt a severe blow to alshabaab in somalia

MikeCZAR:
Speed > Armour in Africa.

do you just argue for fun of it? If you want speed why dont you buy a technical? Since you dont know the value of armour.

lionel4power:
do you just argue for fun of it? If you want speed why dont you buy a technical? Since you dont know the value of armour.

with the proliferation of anti tank guided missiles e.g TOW,konkur,kornet ,HJ-8 e.t.c even the recent MRAP's are vulnerable let alone APC's and IFV's

lionel4power:
do you just argue for fun of it? If you want speed why dont you buy a technical? Since you dont know the value of armour.

A technical can't protect you from shell splinters!


More armour = Lower mobility.

africaken:
with the proliferation of anti tank guided missiles e.g TOW,konkur,kornet ,HJ-8 e.t.c even the recent MRAP's are vulnerable let alone APC's and IFV's

Before we even go to ATGMs.

Newer RPGs can penetrate most vehicles including tanks.

africaken:
with the proliferation of anti tank guided missiles e.g TOW,konkur,kornet ,HJ-8 e.t.c even the recent MRAP's are vulnerable let alone APC's and IFV's

anti-tank rocket has been since WWii that has not stop the development of heavier armour. Light armoured skinned APC or IFV even with speed cannot save you from guided missiles. So i'll rather be in my heavy armour against the missile than in a fast but lightly armoured vehicle.

lionel4power:
do you just argue for fun of it? If you want speed why dont you buy a technical? Since you dont know the value of armour.

Why dont you want the speed and range of a technical (and more firepower) with ballistic protection from 7.62 AP to 30mm?

.

.

lionel4power:
anti-tank rocket has been since WWii that has not stop the development of heavier armour. Light armoured skinned APC or IFV even with speed cannot save you from guided missiles. So i'll rather be in my heavy armour against the missile than in a fast but lightly armoured vehicle.

Rosomaks have shrugged off hits from RPG-7s in Afghanistan

and there are plenty of ATGM's out there that will penetrate any tank in service.

What you dont realize is the tactical and strategic superiority of wheeled vehicals in Africa.

patches689:


Rosomaks have shrugged off hits from RPG-7s in Afghanistan

and there are plenty of ATGM's out there that will penetrate any tank in service.

What you dont realize is the tactical and strategic superiority of wheeled vehicles in Africa.

What tactical/strategic do you want in a desert or swampy/water lodged terrain with a wheeled armored vehicle before u know it u av being hit and roasted by an ATGM.

In modern war fare today and all over the world no matter the kind of formation"strategy or tactics" tracked armored vehicles r always in front then light skinned wheeled vehicles @ d rear . So what are you talking about ? I av said times with out number tracked armored vehicles uses turbo engines and they are more powerful than the engines u find in wheeled vehicles ! These is to carry and move the heavy armor !!!!

And lastly most missile javelin,kornet or what av u don't penetrate modern "MBT's" they just roast the them there by disabling them rendering in-active there by still living the tanks crews alive if they live in time ! But for most modern wheeled armored vehicles ur chances of surviving is a miracle and it dosen't happen all d time !

MikeCZAR:
Before we even go to ATGMs.

Newer RPGs can penetrate most vehicles including tanks.

yes with tandem warheads like RPG-29 even thick armour like T-72 tank it will penetrate.there is a famous video on youtube of a syria tank penetrated with a RPG-29 strike, which causes a cook off

lionel4power:
anti-tank rocket has been since WWii that has not stop the development of heavier armour. Light armoured skinned APC or IFV even with speed cannot save you from guided missiles. So i'll rather be in my heavy armour against the missile than in a fast but lightly armoured vehicle.

there pros and cons on both side of your arguments

we are no longer fighting blitzkrieg Wars most of us are fighting asymmetrical warfare,where your enemy chooses when to attack.true in iraq the american found the Stryker AFV very effective when doing blitzkrieg raids on terrorist hideout but one thing americans never faced are ATGM's compared with what assad is facing.there are new technologies with are effective against ATGM's like the active protection systems e.g israel Trophy but they are expensive also they dont offer protection from new emerging threats like EFP. Which is even able to penetrate modern generation tanks like the british challeger ll tank as the british experienced in Basra

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL_bIDIAlXg

bidexiii:

What tactical/strategic do you want in a desert or swampy/water lodged terrain with a wheeled armored vehicle before u know it u av being hit and roasted by an ATGM.

In modern war fare today and all over the world no matter the kind of formation"strategy or tactics" tracked armored vehicles r always in front then light skinned wheeled vehicles @ d rear . So what are you talking about ? I av said times with out number tracked armored vehicles uses turbo engines and they are more powerful than the engines u find in wheeled vehicles ! These is to carry and move the heavy armor !!!!

And lastly most missile javelin,kornet or what av u don't penetrate modern "MBT's" they just roast the them there by disabling them rendering in-active there by still living the tanks crews alive if they live in time ! But for most modern wheeled armored vehicles ur chances of surviving is a miracle and it dosen't happen all d time !

You watch a lot discovery channel shows.

And No, ATGMs do penetrate tanks. Causing various damages from catastrophic kill to mobility kill.

MikeCZAR:


You watch a lot discovery channel shows.

And No, ATGMs do penetrate tanks. Causing various damages from catastrophic kill to mobility kill.

some even know how to kill better ,they go for the thin top turret armour

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdRnY-TUb4

Kenyan navy KNS Shujaa patrol boat

Nigerian medal ceremony



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUZglmFuQRk&sns=em

bidexiii:

What tactical/strategic do you want in a desert or swampy/water lodged terrain with a wheeled armored vehicle before u know it u av being hit and roasted by an ATGM.

In modern war fare today and all over the world no matter the kind of formation"strategy or tactics" tracked armored vehicles r always in front then light skinned wheeled vehicles @ d rear . So what are you talking about ? I av said times with out number tracked armored vehicles uses turbo engines and they are more powerful than the engines u find in wheeled vehicles ! These is to carry and move the heavy armor !!!!

And lastly most missile javelin,kornet or what av u don't penetrate modern "MBT's" they just roast the them there by disabling them rendering in-active there by still living the tanks crews alive if they live in time ! But for most modern wheeled armored vehicles ur chances of surviving is a miracle and it dosen't happen all d time !

For starters you would go AROUND swamp in a wheeled vehical - and a tank would be equally disadvantaged fighting there.

Wheeled vehicles are perfect for desert warfare - example: SAS in WW2, ISIS, Chad v Libya

Power of the engine is irrelevant when you are talking about achievable speed and fuel efficiency

With regards to "heavy armor in the front", the old SADF showed that heavy tracked formations can defeat the enemy by using maneuver

You are still thinking in terms of the "fulda gap" (european) paradigm and you are failing to grasp the nature African warfare

Every single MBT in Africa can be penetrated by existing and readily available ATGM's - even Egyptian Abrahms as they lack the DU layer that the Abrams in American service have.

It doesnt matter what you are in - you get hit by an ATGM its game over (unless you happen to be rolling around in a heavily upgraded Abrams/Chally 2 or the K-2... and maybe be Merk-IV if trophy picks it up)

africaken:
there pros and cons on both side of your arguments

we are no longer fighting blitzkrieg Wars most of us are fighting asymmetrical warfare,where your enemy chooses when to attack.true in iraq the american found the Stryker AFV very effective when doing blitzkrieg raids on terrorist hideout but one thing americans never faced are ATGM's compared with what assad is facing.there are new technologies with are effective against ATGM's like the active protection systems e.g israel Trophy but they are expensive also they dont offer protection from new emerging threats like EFP. Which is even able to penetrate modern generation tanks like the british challeger ll tank as the british experienced in Basra

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL_bIDIAlXg

You are correct on all counts

Except that the British Challenger was penetrated by an RPG-29, and that was achieved by a one in a million shot that managed to hit the part of the front glacis that has no Chohbam armor - and the driver only lost a toe. This design oversight has been rectified by the "streetfighter" upgrade.

Chally wont get penetrated by an EFP - maybe rendered combat ineffective, but not penetrated.

Burundi

africaken:
some even know how to kill better ,they go for the thin top turret armour

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdRnY-TUb4

Yes, OTA(Overfly top attack).

Most use two warheads first one disables the armour.

Nigeria

Bonus photo.

Office of the Nigerian President.

patches689:


For starters you would go AROUND swamp in a wheeled vehical - and a tank would be equally disadvantaged fighting there.

Wheeled vehicles are perfect for desert warfare - example: SAS in WW2, ISIS, Chad v Libya

Power of the engine is irrelevant when you are talking about achievable speed and fuel efficiency

With regards to "heavy armor in the front", the old SADF showed that heavy tracked formations can defeat the enemy by using maneuver

You are still thinking in terms of the "fulda gap" (european) paradigm and you are failing to grasp the nature African warfare

Every single MBT in Africa can be penetrated by existing and readily available ATGM's - even Egyptian Abrahms as they lack the DU layer that the Abrams in American service have.

It doesn't matter what you are in - you get hit by an ATGM its game over (unless you happen to be rolling around in a heavily upgraded Abrams/Chally 2 or the K-2... and maybe be Merk-IV if trophy picks it up)

Heresy. Go around to avoid the swampy area and being ambushed ? Like a wolf the pack !!! I av seeing tracked vehicles passing tru swampy area easily times with-out number and not being stalk ..... !

U think the white people r dummies , u sit there and say engines r not important to speed .... U just kept me laughing,then what determines the speed of a machine or its performance talk less a turbo engine .... Simple science a primary school can comprehend ?

Now show me where a modern anti-tank missiles like - javelin,kornet etc ? Penetrates through modern MBT class like; Abrams,T-90 and leopards class etc . The most pictures we've seeing is disabling tanks and rendering them useless or service-less !

Now I av few Questions for u; tell me a modern ware fare that was fought in the desert and the majority of the armored wheeled vehicles that took part was greater than tracked ones if even not @ all !
Operation desert storm 89% if not 100% of vehicles that took part was abrams mbt and bradley ifv. Are there generals fools yet u sit there and say wheeled vehicles r the same with tracked vehicles in any desert ?
Common sense !!!!!!

patches689:


You are correct on all counts

Except that the British Challenger was penetrated by an RPG-29, and that was achieved by a one in a million shot that managed to hit the part of the front glacis that has no Chohbam armor - and the driver only lost a toe. This design oversight has been rectified by the "streetfighter" upgrade.

Chally wont get penetrated by an EFP - maybe rendered combat ineffective, but not penetrated.

25 March 2003 a blue-on-blue incident resulted in a challeger 2 getting destroyed after another challeger 2 mistook it for enemy .a HESH round hit the open commander's hatch lid of the challeger 2 tank sending hot fragments into the turret, killing two crew members. The strike caused a fire that eventually led to an explosion of the stowed ammunition.with no armour on top side of the turret most of this modern tanks face the same vulnerability and with TOW-2B top-down attack variant and the new china made HJ-12 a copy of US javelin with top-down attack capability and which china is going to flood in the world arms market .also we dont even know what the russians are developing. this is a weakness most ATGM manufacturer are keen on

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqpu7P28Svs

Ghana Air Force To Buy 5 Embraer A-29 Super Tucano

PARIS, France: Embraer Defense & Security and the Ministry of Defence of the Republic of Ghana have signed a contract for the acquisition of five A-29 Super Tucano light attack and advanced training turboprops.

the link https://www.defencetalk.com/ghana-air-force-to-buy-5-embraer-a-29-super-tucano-64575/?utm_source=&utm_medium=facebook

Nigerian Air Force

africaken:
there pros and cons on both side of your arguments

we are no longer fighting blitzkrieg Wars most of us are fighting asymmetrical warfare,where your enemy chooses when to attack.true in iraq the american found the Stryker AFV very effective when doing blitzkrieg raids on terrorist hideout but one thing americans never faced are ATGM's compared with what assad is facing.there are new technologies with are effective against ATGM's like the active protection systems e.g israel Trophy but they are expensive also they dont offer protection from new emerging threats like EFP. Which is even able to penetrate modern generation tanks like the british challeger ll tank as the british experienced in Basra

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL_bIDIAlXg

like you said there are pros and cons.
The best advisable military orbat is to have a mix of both. Though asymmetrical warfare is the new trend that doesnt means that conventional type of warfare is over.
There are basics in acquiring hardware, having sufficient armour is a standard.