Helghast:

Oh shweet dude I'll check that out, I'm very jealous of the Sf because they get to pick any rifle the want, unless its a deep penetration mission where they have to use modern rifles that use the type of ammunition that's is very common to that place :[

for deep penetration they would use a akm, or the water proofed AKM and Russian GPMGs. even western SF do this. The AK makes a unique sound so using it can confuse the enemy.

MikeZA: Yes,the SANDF uses both upgraded R1 and R4 in the DM role. Snipers are usually found in the support elements of the force.

oh jah and about the R4, I don't how the only people I've seen so far with upgraded R4 are guys who are based in S.A, one would expect that the guys going on actual deployments would be the ones carrying new rifles.

Helghast: oh jah and about the R4, I don't how the only people I've seen so far with upgraded R4 are guys who are based in S.A, one would expect that the guys going on actual deployments would be the ones carrying new rifles.

You might have seen pictures of 5SAI soldiers during training in EC with the rifles. There aren't a lot of pictures of SANDF combat soldiers in operational areas.

Helghast: oh my bad, but the site I got it from said we use that as an Infantry sniper rifle, and we use an Upgraded R1 as a Designated Marksman Rifle.

The first picture shows members of 5SAI with the rifle during urban training. They're deployed in DRC and second one is that of 6SAI whom were in the DRC.

Rwanda special forces

denisfidha: Rwanda special forces

Nice. I heard they are trained by the US military(can't say which arm though).

SAAF

Saaf

Nigerian army, north-east

Helghast:

Oh shweet dude I'll check that out, I'm very jealous of the Sf because they get to pick any rifle the want, unless its a deep penetration mission where they have to use modern rifles that use the type of ammunition that's is very common to that place :[

Those rifles that use the 5.56 Ammo, are only good for CQB. Well speaking to an NAF QRF member a few days back, he told me he prefers his FN to the current Tavor-21 they are currently issued. The problem with the Tavor or rifles shooting 5.56 rounds, he needs to shoot 5 rounds into an enemy before he falls, unlike with the FN were 1 round can simply do the job.

So missions decide the sort of Rifle he carries. Let me add, even american S.F units use the A.K, forget about the photo sessions. The 7.62 AK round is a much more effective round than the 5.56, besides this, your enemy is most likely armed with an A.K, so there is a near un-limited supply of Ammo for the soldier.

chris365:

Nice. I heard they are trained by the US military(can't say which arm though).

Military contractors including guys from Israel.

5.56mm fmj kills, just all ways right then.

WARNING THIS PIC IS NOT FOR THE FANT HEARTED.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsf6tISE9jzBY8GPNf1pXI0mySdCgfqWUOG5CUQEyyj2jK0Y8cJw

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDpm5-6KIF60GuT4YBhpyyNRRdM5PFajNqxM8IGabQfYvHB8rdSw

SO DONT KNOCK THE 5.56MM

Andrewza, if you mean are more accurate and reach a longer effective range, I agree. However, I don't see how the photos you posted explains it.


However, most combat takes place under 300 meters. Let me also add, even with the 5.56 and a holographic or any sight, people still miss in 10-20 meters distances.

Marksmanship is a skill that comes with continuous training, not just the accessories on the rifle.

I only love rifles using 5.56mm because, they're always very beautiful (tavor-21, FN F2000, FN SCAR, CZ 805-BREN etc). In actual combat, an accessorised AK-74 would be my best bet.

Henry120: Andrewza, if you mean are more accurate and reach a longer effective range, I agree. However, I don't see how the photos you posted explains it.


However, most combat takes place under 300 meters. Let me also add, even with the 5.56 and holographic or any sight, people still miss in 10-20 meters distances.

Marksmanship is a skill that comes with continuous training, not just the accessories on the rifle.

I only love rifles using 5.56mm because, they're always very beautiful (tavor-21, FN F2000, FN SCAR, CZ 805-BREN etc). In actual combat, an accessorised AK-74 would be my best bet.

those are wound from a 5.56mm FMJ, with out medical treatment they will kill you. Not BH does not have the needed medical treatment.

zaandrew:

those are wound from a 5.56mm FMJ, with out medical treatment they will kill you. Not BH does not have the needed medical treatment.

A 9mm wound can also kill an adult male. Fact is, a 7.62 round would do more damage to an individual than the 5.56mm.

Henry120:

A 9mm wound can also kill an adult male. Fact is, a 7.62 round would do more damage to an individual than the 5.56mm.

depends on the type of ammunition. 7.62mm hits causes a massive wound and leaves. A 5.56mm FMJ is a evil round, once it hits flesh it looses stability and starts to tumble in your body, if it hits bone it breaks said bone and bounces of cause massive internal bleeding. Problem is that many 5.56mm weapons do not have the correct barrel length. The 5.56mm needs a 20inch barrel the tavour is only 15inches. this means the muzzle velocity is not high enough to get that wound making effect.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm

Benefits of the 5.56 NATO claimed over the 7.62 NATO include equal lethality, half the mass and volume, reduced recoil and signature, better penetration of metal plates, flatter trajectory and shorter time of flight out to 700 meters, weapons chambered for it are lighter, and better hit probability. Hit probability refers to the ability of a soldier to concentrate on firing in spite of their weapon's recoil and noise, which is noticeably different between the two cartridges. The 7.62 NATO has twice the impact energy of the 5.56 NATO which is needed if a target is protected by armor, but if not both rounds normally penetrate through enemies past 600 meters. A 5.56 NATO round fired from a 20 in (510 mm) barrel has a flatter trajectory than a 7.62 NATO round fired from a barrel of equal length, while the 5.56 NATO fired from a 14.5 in (370 mm) barrel has the same trajectory as the 7.62 NATO from a 20 in barrel, as well as the same time of flight. A 7.62 NATO round reaches 50 percent of its velocity within 80 mm (3.1 in) of the barrel when fired, so decreasing the barrel length for close quarters combat results in increased muzzle pressure and greater noise and muzzle flash

Henry120:

Those rifles that use the 5.56 Ammo, are only good for CQB. Well speaking to an NAF QRF member a few days back, he told me he prefers his FN to the current Tavor-21 they are currently issued. The problem with the Tavor or rifles shooting 5.56 rounds, he needs to shoot 5 rounds into an enemy before he falls, unlike with the FN were 1 round can simply do the job.

So missions decide the sort of Rifle he carries. Let me add, even american S.F units use the A.K, forget about the photo sessions. The 7.62 AK round is a much more effective round than the 5.56, besides this, your enemy is most likely armed with an A.K, so there is a near un-limited supply of Ammo for the soldier.

Yeah true I think that's why our Generals in S.A chose to upgrade our R4 & R5s instead of getting new Rifles.

But my problem with the A.K and the older rifles is that they are heavy, their accuracy is not that good, they jam like S**t, they overheat on full auto and send you off target, well every rifle does that but the AK is worse.

And people who pick 5.56mm over 7.62mm usually prefer accuracy over stopping power, and your friend has a point, they should try upgrading the FN to more modern standards
and try to make it more accurate, then to replace it with a more stylish gun.

Excuse this photo.


I'll pick this AK-74 with EOTECH sight over any of the Ctavor or HK416

Helghast:




Yeah true I think that's why our Generals in S.A chose to upgrade our R4 & R5s instead of getting new Rifles.

But my problem with the A.K and the older rifles is that they are heavy, their accuracy is not that good, they jam like S**t, they overheat on full auto and send you off target, well every rifle does that but the AK is worse.

They all do this, it is left for the soldier to properly maintain his rifle.

Helghast: And people who pick 5.56mm over 7.62mm usually prefer accuracy over stopping power, and your friend has a point, they should try upgrading the FN to more modern standards
and try to make it more accurate, then to replace it with a more stylish gun.

I agree with your comment on accuracy, but on the issue of choice, policy makers choose whatever equipment they want troops to use based on varying factors.

*Algerian navy by 2018.

Henry120: Excuse this photo.


I'll pick this AK-74 with EOTECH sight over any of the Ctavor or HK416

The AK74 uses a smaller weaker round than the 5,56mm nato though.

Nigerian navy

Ugandan forces in somalia

Nigerian navy's joint naval drill with the chinese

zaandrew:

The AK74 uses a smaller weaker round than the 5,56mm nato though.

And it has been mordernized on many occasions to improve penetration.

Henry120:

And it has been mordernized on many occasions to improve penetration.

that all to do with the round and the 5.56mm is even better. the AK74 firs a rather weak round a 5.45mm round

Henry120:

They all do this, it is left for the soldier to properly maintain his rifle.



I agree with your comment on accuracy, but on the issue of choice, policy makers choose whatever equipment they want troops to use based on varying factors.

Sometimes I think the policy makes, mainly pick guns for the way they look, and the popularity of the gun

Henry120: Nigerian navy's joint naval drill with the chinese

why is the NN always using the SBS for joint training/exercises with other navies?

MikeZA: why is the NN always using the SBS for joint training/exercises with other navies?

Not entirely true. I only post photos of NNSBS because I love seeing troops in tactical gear.

2)NNS Thunder has a permanent V.B.S.S team on board, and they're always SBS personnel. So if visiting navies are conducting joint boarding exercises, ship borne SBS are used, if it's COIN exercises, COIN tailored SBS are used.

They are different teams. The guys fighting BH do not carry out boarding exercises, and vice versa.

zaandrew:

that all to do with the round and the 5.56mm is even better. the AK74 firs a rather weak round a 5.45mm round

That's why I said S.F role.

Helghast:



Sometimes I think the policy makes, mainly pick guns for the way they look, and the popularity of the gun

I cannot claim to know how policy decisions are reached, but I always have it at the back of my mind that they obviously have more informations at their disposal than I can dream of.

However, in some cases, I look at some of their decisions and go .......... These people can't be this clueless. They attend all the high-profile local and international exhibitions, and still give us this sh1t.

On the Tavor-21 though, I'm a big big fan of the rifle, and would gladly accept nigeria's military top brass going down the Tavor route.