Namibian Marine corps

MikeCZA:
Even if Nigeria acquired 20 batteries of the HQ-9 major powers would still be able to turn your armed forces into rebels within two weeks.

Medium range missiles are perfect for our needs in Africa. An example is the Pantsir-S1 system.

i have a different point of view though ,

the only guarantee of a foolproof air defense is your fighter elements.

ground based air defense is essentially a supporting and back up element.

SAMs are basically classified according to slant range and engagement altitude.

we have
1.MANPADS
2.SHORT RANGE SAM
3.ER-SHORADS
4.MEDIUM RANGE SAM
5.LONG RANGE SAM
6.VERY LONG RANGE SAM

against maneuvering and agile targets using terrain masking flight profile ,

1.MANPADS will have the highest kill probability under best case scenario
2.SHORT RANGE SAM will have the highest kill probability under best case scenario
3.ER-SHORADS will have the highest kill probability under best case scenario
4.MEDIUM RANGE SAM
5.LONG RANGE SAM
6.VERY LONG RANGE SAM

MRSAM LRSAM and VLRSAM will be useless against the above targets.

MANPADS SRSAM ERSHORAD are best effective against maneuvering and agile targets flying at low altitudes in order to evade the radar , because of the low engagement range capability , very quick response time , very short kill chain , low escape zone , high maneuvering capability , seeker sensitivity, acquisition and lock on is optimal at low ranges.

my point being u have to select ur sam depending on ur requirements and conditions .
1.point defense / base defense / area defense
2.terrain to be protected , flat / mountainous / valleys
3.static defense / mobile defense
4.stand alone / networked
5.internal sensors / external sensors
6.integral protection / deterrence

etc etc

if MRSAM LRSAM and VLRSAM comes up against a maneuvering and agile targets flying at medium to high altitudes (a foolish decision in the first place) then the best case scenario for the MRSAM LRSAM and VLRSAM will be to force the fighter to dump its weapons and fuel and turn tail.
ie MRSAM LRSAM and VLRSAM achieved a MISSION KILL which is as good as a TARGET KILL.


the best scenario is when u have all of these networked , integrated and in overlapping mode
1.MANPADS protects against low flying , pop up targets , terrain masking targets
2.SHORT RANGE SAM protects against low flying , pop up targets , terrain masking targets , maneuvering targets on weapon delivery run , PGMs , cruise missiles
3.ER-SHORADS forces low flying , pop up targets , terrain masking targets to either abort mission or to fly up into the engagement envelope of MRSAM / LRSAM or get killed.
4.MEDIUM RANGE SAM kills target within their engagement envelop at medium or high altitudes , if the targets have been forced to the kill zone or if the target is unaware of the existence of the said SAMs. however kill probability is low especially against receding targets while high on head on mode.
5.LONG RANGE SAM good against bombers, awacs , tankers , and against a flight/group of fighter formations, also good if the fighter pilot falls asleep during flight
also tries to force targets to descend into lower altitudes to be caught up by MRSAM SRSAM ETC.
6.VERY LONG RANGE SAM same above with additional anti ballistic capability.

kind of sleepy now ,
Pantsir-S1/S2 system is a point defense system a SRSAM to be exact not a medium range sam.

good night guys

nemesis2u:


i have a different point of view though ,

the only guarantee of a foolproof air defense is your fighter elements.

ground based air defense is essentially a supporting and back up element.

SAMs are basically classified according to slant range and engagement altitude.

we have
1.MANPADS
2.SHORT RANGE SAM
3.ER-SHORADS
4.MEDIUM RANGE SAM
5.LONG RANGE SAM
6.VERY LONG RANGE SAM

against maneuvering and agile targets using terrain masking flight profile ,

1.MANPADS will have the highest kill probability under best case scenario
2.SHORT RANGE SAM will have the highest kill probability under best case scenario
3.ER-SHORADS will have the highest kill probability under best case scenario
4.MEDIUM RANGE SAM
5.LONG RANGE SAM
6.VERY LONG RANGE SAM

MRSAM LRSAM and VLRSAM will be useless against the above targets.

MANPADS SRSAM ERSHORAD are best effective against maneuvering and agile targets flying at low altitudes in order to evade the radar , because of the low engagement range capability , very quick response time , very short kill chain , low escape zone , high maneuvering capability , seeker sensitivity, acquisition and lock on is optimal at low ranges.

my point being u have to select ur sam depending on ur requirements and conditions .
1.point defense / base defense / area defense
2.terrain to be protected , flat / mountainous / valleys
3.static defense / mobile defense
4.stand alone / networked
5.internal sensors / external sensors
6.integral protection / deterrence

etc etc

if MRSAM LRSAM and VLRSAM comes up against a maneuvering and agile targets flying at medium to high altitudes (a foolish decision in the first place) then the best case scenario for the MRSAM LRSAM and VLRSAM will be to force the fighter to dump its weapons and fuel and turn tail.
ie MRSAM LRSAM and VLRSAM achieved a MISSION KILL which is as good as a TARGET KILL.


the best scenario is when u have all of these networked , integrated and in overlapping mode
1.MANPADS protects against low flying , pop up targets , terrain masking targets
2.SHORT RANGE SAM protects against low flying , pop up targets , terrain masking targets , maneuvering targets on weapon delivery run , PGMs , cruise missiles
3.ER-SHORADS forces low flying , pop up targets , terrain masking targets to either abort mission or to fly up into the engagement envelope of MRSAM / LRSAM or get killed.
4.MEDIUM RANGE SAM kills target within their engagement envelop at medium or high altitudes , if the targets have been forced to the kill zone or if the target is unaware of the existence of the said SAMs. however kill probability is low especially against receding targets while high on head on mode.
5.LONG RANGE SAM good against bombers, awacs , tankers , and against a flight/group of fighter formations, also good if the fighter pilot falls asleep during flight.
6.VERY LONG RANGE SAM same above with additional anti ballistic capability.

kind of sleepy now ,
Pantsir-S1/S2 system is a point defense system a SRSAM to be exact not a medium range sam.

good night guys

Can you please mention the Names of Nigeria's SAMs

tdayof:
Can you please mention the Names of Nigeria's SAMs

unfortunately i have little info , other guys may be able to help.

i know nigeria has roland sams

MikeCZA:
Even if Nigeria acquired 20 batteries of the HQ-9 major powers would still be able to turn your armed forces into rebels within two weeks.

Medium range missiles are perfect for our needs in Africa. An example is the Pantsir-S1 system.

I agree with you.
A military trying to overrun another must be prepared. Therefore Major country trying to infiltrate our air defense will be ready to protect all her assets too. All it takes are Stealth aircraft with the combination of AWACS to infiltrate our air defense and then launch electronic attack on the SAM units. And again if missile are being launched against any of the aircraft, we will be lucky if their naval units do not target the SAM positions as deploying missiles will give away the SAM location.
However I feel there are a lot of things to to invest on than SAM.

@henry240 any idea about the capability of Nigerian Electronic and Cyber warfare?

Patchesagain:


Problem is that when you base things off of diversity, it means that merit is no longer the most saught after quality - and the effectiveness of the organization reflects that.

There is a guy called Charles C. Johnson, who bets against companies on the stock market... specifically, he bets against companies that implement quota systems. He has made millions.


Hoefyster turrets

Are you sure some turret(s) aren't missing there?

Anyway, I wish this was one of them. Long range, highly accurate even better than the cancelled NLOS howitzer.

nemesis2u:


unfortunately i have little info , other guys may be able to help.

i know nigeria has roland sams

yea but roland is obsolete when compared to today's technology.

Henry240:


Chikl has appropriately responded.


Attacking a 3rd world country with your most hi-tech equipment doesn't seem much of a victory. Squaring off against Russian army T-72B3 and T-90s would be an appropriate base for an assessment.


We all know how beautifully Russian T-90 (basically upgraded T-72s) have operated in Syria.



Nigerian Army T-72AV hit by multiple VBIEDs.

where !i dont see a tank that has survived what your saying .

a decapitated turret of a T-72B3 tank

Henry240:


Algeria spends $10 billion on average on their military, they have a lot more money to spend than Nigeria. For Russian jets only the SU-34, SU-25 and Yak-130 would suit our requirements.

I found some news on the Russian Tin shield. News seems to be few months ago tho. Did we really acquire the Tin shield?

nemesis2u:


i have a different point of view though ,

the only guarantee of a foolproof air defense is your fighter elements.

ground based air defense is essentially a supporting and back up element.

SAMs are basically classified according to slant range and engagement altitude.

we have
1.MANPADS
2.SHORT RANGE SAM
3.ER-SHORADS
4.MEDIUM RANGE SAM
5.LONG RANGE SAM
6.VERY LONG RANGE SAM

against maneuvering and agile targets using terrain masking flight profile ,

1.MANPADS will have the highest kill probability under best case scenario

Not really.

The South African air force is known for using terrain masking flight and attack profiles such as the long toss.

During the war in Angola 300+ IR and 70+ radar guided missiles failed to hit "certain SAAF" aircraft.

Why?

There's no reason for many African countries to acquire long range or very long range SAMs.

Usage of SAMs is like artillery it is guided by doctrine. They can be deployed unconventionally.

That's why the Umkhonto missile with GPS can attack stationary ground targets.

Ethiopia air force SU-27

nemesis2u:



Pantsir-S1/S2 system is a point defense system a SRSAM to be exact not a medium range sam.

You are defining the usage of the system.

The missiles it carries are of medium range.

It's only draw back for the African battlespace is the combination of the sensors, missiles and cannons in one vehicle. As African countries can't afford many systems.

In an event of an air to ground strike the poor chaps in the battery control centre we will be left blind without any capability to engage or wade off further incoming attacks.

africaken254:
Ethiopia air force SU-27

I didn't know Ethiopia was a European country.

gottfried21:
Namibian Marine corps

What's with the rifles cousins? what's with the rifles?

MikeCZA:
Not really.

The South African air force is known for using terrain masking flight and attack profiles such as the long toss.

During the war in Angola 300+ IR and 70+ radar guided missiles failed to hit "certain SAAF" aircraft.

Why?

There's no reason for many African countries to acquire long range or very long range SAMs.

Usage of SAMs is like artillery it is guided by doctrine. They can be deployed unconventionally.

That's why the Umkhonto missile with GPS can attack stationary ground targets.

Did terrain masking help RAF Tornado GR1 jets during gulf war 1 from suffering heavy losses !

jakeporeshenko:

Hehe I'll try my best to keep posting and yeah I speak to him (dakingsman)a lot via IG DM's he's a cheerful fellow. Henry as long as you don't stop posting I'll keep the IG page running you know, a large proportion of the pics I post come from here.

About the official NAF IG page that follows mine. I sent him a DM about the JF-17s and the drones from UAE and got some positive replies.

Wow, that's so retro and cool. What did you ask specifically and what was their response, please share?


As long as the military and our partners continue to share photos, i'll surely continue.

MikeCZA:
I didn't know Ethiopia was a European country.

because you see a lot of russians technicians and pilots and blindly dont see a few ethiopian military personnel you come to that conclusion !

tdayof:

I found some news on the Russian Tin shield. News seems to be few months ago tho. Did we really acquire the Tin shield?

Yeah we acquired 2x Tri Shield 36DG Tactical radars .

tdayof:


@Henry any idea about the capability of Nigerian Electronic and Cyber warfare?

No idea Sir.

MikeCZA:
Not really.

The South African air force is known for using terrain masking flight and attack profiles such as the long toss.

During the war in Angola 300+ IR and 70+ radar guided missiles failed to hit "certain SAAF" aircraft.

Why?

because of many reasons
1.inadequate training ,
2.failure to adhere to SOP/ROE
3.failure of sensors
4.failure to adapt/counter to SAAF spoofing techniques
5.firing without guaranteed WA solution
6.poor interception solutions
7.poor “Recognized Air Situation Picture” (RASP)
etc.

that is why i said fighters/interceptors are the best guarantee to air defense.

MikeCZA:
Not really.

There's no reason for many African countries to acquire long range or very long range SAMs.

Usage of SAMs is like artillery it is guided by doctrine. They can be deployed unconventionally.

That's why the Umkhonto missile with GPS can attack stationary ground targets.

exactly it is my position too but albeit little different POV.

You are defining the usage of the system.

The missiles it carries are of medium range.

It's only draw back for the African battlespace is the combination of the sensors, missiles and cannons in one vehicle. As African countries can't afford many systems.

In an event of an air to ground strike the poor chaps in the battery control centre we will be left blind without any capability to engage or wade off further incoming attacks.

in the latest version pantsr S2 has max range of 30 km (i posted in the other thread on this system )
however depending on profile of the target being engaged ie maneuvering receding target, head on target, criss-crossing receding or head on target etc , the missile will burn up a substantial portion of its fuel while engaging it , high G maneuvers / turns takes a toll on fuel , so engagement at max range is a myth , that is why u have kill envelopes aka predefined WEZ weapons engagement zone for best kill probability where the missile still has enough kinematic energy left to engage its target successfully.

Nigerian military

MikeCZA:
What's with the rifles cousins? what's with the rifles?

What do you mean?

Patchesagain:


No it doesnt.

16 years of continuous combat and you have one video of an Abrams suffering a catastrophic failure?

T-72's pop their turrets every time they see combat.

Big difference

Rhodesian tank crew and their stolen tank (google it)

Correction: Donated tank.

africaken254:
Did terrain masking help RAF Tornado GR1 jets during gulf war 1 from suffering heavy losses !

Nope.

Guess which air force they visited after the war.

gottfried21:
What do you mean?

Different ones.

nemesis2u:


because of many reasons
1.inadequate training ,
2.failure to adhere to SOP/ROE
3.failure of sensors
4.failure to adapt/counter to SAAF spoofing techniques
5.firing without guaranteed WA solution
6.poor interception solutions
7.poor “Recognized Air Situation Picture” (RASP)
etc.

that is why i said fighters/interceptors are the best guarantee to air defense.

Nope.

South Africa's defence industry.

In short during war time major powers with the help of their defence industries can tailor their systems for an enemy at short notice.

nemesis2u:





in the latest version pantsr S2 has max range of 30 km (i posted in the other thread on this system )
however depending on profile of the target being engaged ie maneuvering receding target, head on target, criss-crossing receding or head on target etc , the missile will burn up a substantial portion of its fuel while engaging it , high G maneuvers / turns takes a toll on fuel , so engagement at max range is a myth , that is why u have kill envelopes aka predefined WEZ weapons engagement zone for best kill probability where the missile still has enough kinematic energy left to engage its target successfully.

No escape zone.

Manufacturers never release that.

Max range is achieved under favourable conditions. i.e. head on interceptions.

MikeCZA:
Different ones.

Oh,Okay.
Is this a problem

gottfried21:
Oh,Okay. Is this a problem

Without classes.
Beginners class, Marksmen etc.

MikeCZA:
Nope.

Guess which air force they visited after the war.

you want to tell us you bombed the Angolans and Cubans until they capitulated and your air superiority was overwhelming that they never bombed your forces !

Nigerian military

africaken254:
you want to tell us you bombed the Angolans and Cubans until they capitulated and your air superiority was overwhelming that they never bombed your forces !

You are not answering the question!

Cuban and Angolan ground attacks were ineffective. Mostly speculative attacks.

Air superiority isn't about the fighters.