Ok...

So I've smoked a few joints and watched a few documentaries tonight,and so I'm feeling really political right about now.

Also being on the green, my thoughts are a bit jumbled still, so please bear with me

Thing is, I'm not a cultural scholar like some of you on here -Kails, KidStranglehold, Rossike, Horus, and begrudgingly Shymex

I was watching the documentary 'Marley' and what struck me as odd was the fact that both of the island's only two political parties were run by WHITE MEN - Seaga and Manley...I mean what's up with that?

And then I watched 'The Ghosts of City Soleil'(available on youtube) which followed the 2004 coup detat that ousted erstwhile Haitian President Jean-betrand Aristide, chronicling the events leading up to,and after the coup through the eyes of a couple of political thugs and gangsters

I found it shocking that even after 200 years of independence, Haiti is such an utter shithole(No disrespect) and still seems to be ruled by proxy by America through a mulatto elite


My rambling thoughts then bring me the issue of Black rule...why is every nation practically under black rule a failure?

Why do African leaders tend to be Despots and Murdering Thieves? Is there a blueprint for African leaders across the globe?

The general consensus is that the western world constantly meddle in our affairs by instigating wars and all manners of shitstarting, but has there been any black African leader ever with the balls to refuse/resist?

Are we as black people doomed forever to be the footstool of the white man?

yeah you're right.
you do need to do more research.

*Kails*:
yeah you're right.
you do need to do more research.

That's the thing...in being that research is not my thing

That's why I thought someone on here might have any answers

well you can start off by looking up the ethnicities of edward seaga and michael manley.
then you can look up the haitian revolution and the embargo that happened immediately after.

it won't take too much time.
i promise

also you can't use issues affecting africa to judge our issues in the diaspora.
the histories are not the same.

*Kails*:
well you can start off by looking up the ethnicities of edward seaga and michael manley.
then you can look up the haitian revolution and the embargo that happened immediately after.

it won't take too much time.
i promise

also you can't use issues affecting africa to judge our issues in the diaspora.
the histories are not the same.

I dont exactly know what you want me to look for

my point was you claimed manly and seaga were white and they were not.
Manly was a light skin black man and seaga had some lebanese ancestry.

second... i keep hearing this crap about non black people controlling jamaica... WHAT?!
Let's go back to manley and seaga...they esp. did not control jamaica at that time in the 70s
despite what that "documentary" claims the truth is THEY [politicians] actually answered to the the local "dons" and their crews.

I really don't want to discuss too much about this but i have a book you should consider reading.
it has all of the answers you need. it's called "born fi dead" by Lauren Gunst. I have that book and "the shower posse" in my collection. They are awesome reads to understand the conspiracies in the Jamaican political systems.



Born Fi Dead is the best one tho. it discusses how the political parties were simply an extension of the Jamaican gangs. How the CIA got involved through Seaga aka C.I.A.ga and the assassination attempt of Bob Marley, the successful assassination of Lester Coke (father to the infamous Dudus Coke) etc etc.

As for Haiti, you really need to read up on Haiti instead of referring to the world's first free black republic as an "utter shythole". I know you said, "no disrespect" but that was sir.

FYI the Haitians defeated three super powers and are still paying the price for it. They had an embargo placed on them by the Europeans and the Americans who out of revenge for many years forbade anyone from aiding or trading with the Haitians. The situation Haiti is in, is not the result of "black stupidity" but revenge and a tool to discourage other black people from breaking away from the "system".

Wow..Learning!

NessaFresh: Wow..Learning!

that's a good thing.
i think people need to know more about these things.

Botswana, bahamas, barbados.black countries doing good. Soon you can add ghana and angola.

This generation in Africa is paying for the sins of their forefathers..


When thousands of White men in Asia, America etc were rising up for missionary works, aids and several denominations (e.g Methodists, Catholics, Baptist..) several 100+ years ago, your fore african fathers were busy killing one another, trading their children's destinies for fetish powers, rituals, molesting, practising occultic acts, engaging in dubious and wicked festivals that requires the souls, lives and blood of innocent ones.. (who does that outside Africa?)

I'm sure you don't except the crying ghost to just sleep and forget what your fathers did to them..

So many innocent victims must have placed bounty, hefty and heavy curses upon our lands.. upon the children and grand children..

Your fore fathers were marrying 6,7,8,9 wives and producing children like ants ranging from 30,40,50 etc...

Mind you, during this medieval period, several countries were spreading the truth, freedom, unity, love & God.

Even the Americans of today claiming atheists are only enjoying the labours of the early missionaries in their countries..

Bishop Ajayi Crowther (Nigeria), tried his best afterall, but what can he do alone..while no one seem to listen to him?

The truth is, Africa will surely get there someday... but it will take alot!

btw, I've been preaching this truth about Africa for sometime now and I keep getting comments like - "rubbish!"


Well; I don't expect an accursed man to know the truth

When a race remains stagnant and lacks innovation and idea to subdue and take advantage of their physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual environment they are doomed to suffer

acidosis™:
This generation in Africa is paying for the sins of their forefathers..


several 100+ years ago, your fore african fathers were busy killing one another, trading their children's destinies for fetish powers, rituals, molesting, practising occultic acts, engaging in dubious and wicked festivals that requires the souls, lives and blood of innocent ones.. (who does that outside Africa?)

everyone did those things, you ever heard of the ritual sacrifices in europe? How about the aztecs? Even when europe found god they still declared innocent women as witches and burned them at the stake.

...

I used to laugh at the phrase 'no mynd am..na black man'....stopped laughing when I realised it had some truth to it.

TheTruthHurts: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoThvKoCXbQ

Wooww!
Thanks for sharing that video!
Ive watched many similar to it but not to this extent!
Thank God for Anthropologists but they were quite biased back then until modern anthropology so which countries did they shoot the video?
Africa is a large country and each country does not have the same culture/language/traditions even back then.

But what I would really like to know is:
why did u share that particular video for this topic?
What are you trying to say?

Edit: the Dinkas and Mandari people are know for this...this has nothing to do with the topic...

*Kails*:
my point was you claimed manly and seaga were white and they were not.
Manly was a light skin black man and seaga had some lebanese ancestry.

second... i keep hearing this crap about non black people controlling jamaica... WHAT?!
Let's go back to manley and seaga...they esp. did not control jamaica at that time in the 70s
despite what that "documentary" claims the truth is THEY [politicians] actually answered to the the local "dons" and their crews.

Micheal Manley was a mullato born to two mixed-race parents, and Seaga was born to an Aramean father and a Scottish-Indian mother. In Manley's case, an argument could be made that he was as much white as he was black, while Seaga was clearly not black.

Anyways it still buttresses the point I made earlier with Haiti,that in Majority black countries where the Black Population mixes with Europeans, the mixed-race,lighter-skinned mullatos always end up running things...

This is true all over the Carribean and the Americas. The question is why? Is it simply a case of the mullatos stepping into class structures created by the colonialists? Or a reluctanc for black people to take responsibility for their actions?

As for Haiti, you really need to read up on Haiti instead of referring to the world's first free black republic as an "utter shythole". I know you said, "no disrespect" but that was sir.

FYI the Haitians defeated three super powers and are still paying the price for it. They had an embargo placed on them by the Europeans and the Americans who out of revenge for many years forbade anyone from aiding or trading with the Haitians. The situation Haiti is in, is not the result of "black stupidity" but revenge and a tool to discourage other black people from breaking away from the "system".

I completely disagree with the above statement. While I'm sure the western world has had a hand in the Haitian mess, I believe that western intervention is not the MAIN cause of the Haitian Stagnation

Haiti is an utter shithole - I should know, I come from a shithole myself! Now you could argue that Haiti has been used as a scapegoat....But in researching the subject I discovered evidence of the African Despot blueprint I alluded to in my first post.

Did you know that Toussaint L'ouverture, the leader of the Haitian Revolution, immediately proclaimed himself president for life after the revolution was complete?

Henri Christophe followed in his suit as President for life, Followed by Alexandre Petion who also declared himself president for life, followed by Jean-Pierre Boyer who also did the same....

Papa doc Duvalier also declared himself president for life, and when he died, his 19 year old son Baby Doc Duvalier, was declared president of Haiti?

And while all this was going on, Industrial and Finacial power was and is in the hands of the Mullato Elite

With such a constant stream of dictators even from independence, it was inevitable that Haiti has had 32 coups through out its's history. Dictatorships (accompanied by the obligatory treasury looting) breed pverty,fear and social unrest and no doubt this has played it's part in shaping Hiati.

My question though, is what is it about black people that makes them become despots in power? Is there really a blueprint for this?

I suspect that African leadership is the number 1,2,and 3 cause of our stagnation. But I cant understand why hitherto decent black people get into power and morph into monsters.

I really don't want to discuss too much about this but i have a book you should consider reading.
it has all of the answers you need. it's called "born fi dead" by Lauren Gunst. I have that book and "the shower posse" in my collection. They are awesome reads to understand the conspiracies in the Jamaican political systems

Having lived in North London where there is a huge Caribbean population for years, I'm well aware of the Shower Posse and Dudus Coke. I will look up this book though as it promises to be a good read. Cheers!

I don't know where you got your source (perhaps wikipedia) but edward seaga was born in America to Jamaican parents of lebanese and syrian descent. He also had black ancestry. There are many Seagas in Jamaica who all claim Lebanon as their country of origin soo....lol.

In Jamaica we call people what they are however, Manley identified himself as a black man and that is what he was just high yellow in complexion. He married black women, and carried himself like a black man.

But the point is the way the country was run only looked professional to the outside world but Jamaican politics was (and to a certain extent still is) VERRRRRRY corrupt. Don't get me started on the police!

Also I know about the haitian revolution and what happened immediately after. i know about the coups. what did you expect to happen? they defeat and embarrass the french, spaniards; etc and just live honky dory? LMAO.

Seriously, lets not pretend it was that easy. a lot of them had just been illegally imported from africa and others had been there for generations. Add that with the different tribes, personalities, and beliefs. In other for them to survive they needed adequate leaders. back then there was no "voting", you had to take by force because they were not a recognized country and was marginalized by the entire globe. they have been ever since with foreigners (wolves in sheep clothing) exploiting them for centuries. Not to mention the issues and ethnic cleansing they were having to deal with by the Dominican Republic, which is clearly a Eurocentric country.

Like I said don't group all "black countries" under one umbrella. Our histories are different. On one side you have people who were deprived of their own heritage, homeland, and enslaved WITH THE AID of Africans (Africans sold other Africans into slavery - FACT) and on the other side you had people who because of making poor decisions were tricked and colonized by foreign powers and still oppress their own (dictators, tribalism; etc).

You may have HEARD of the shower posse but you don't even know the half. I bet you know nothing bout the JLP and PNP...lol. Being around Jamaicans is not enough. the average Jamaican will not dicuss politics with outsiders much less with each other. I doubt you know about the Green Bay Massacre. I doubt you know about Claude Massop, Spanglers, Carl “Byah” Mitchell, Curly Locs....smh

So please do read those books.

Going back to mixed people running the countries in the caribbean, again this goes back to slavery.

Of course there was a time when a light skin and mixed person was viewed as better than full black people. In the case of Jamaica when under british rule, if you did not have certain features you were considered inferior. I mean come on a former slave colony that is a giver bro lol. #HELLO!

I love how people ignore that....anyway,

Many upper class darkskin people back in the day would purposely choose partners of lighter complexions or other races to have children so that their kids could have a brighter future (no pun intended..hehehe ). Those days are over (now its all about preference) however those kids, had kids and today those kids are still part of the "upper crust" of the society. "Those kids", are found in all colors sir. And of course people who identify as black are up there too. No doubt. So that excuse today is out of the water.

Jamaica's present issue is rich vs. poor.

The problem with black Jamaicans from the poorer neighborhoods is that they are comfortable and due to the history with politics many do not wish to get involved and prefer to stay where their families were for generations. They are survivors and surviving alone is ok for them. Some kids from certain areas still cannot get jobs simply because of their address (low income communities are easily identified by the address).

While some slip through the loop holes and still attend colleges, still end up with awesome careers, many others don't have the same luck.

So that is our concern. Sharing the wealth <<< which is the problem 100% of all nations on earth are dealing with.

Same with Haiti.
The Creole population are literally the children of former slave women and their oppressors. They were born with the esteem that they were better than their darker counterparts. Many refused to speak Creole claiming it was a savage language and preferred to speak "French" (the most annoying language of europe....lol...but them it made them appear "less negro". It is the classic house nigger vs. the field nigger syndrome that the diaspora had to deal with for a while. The inheritance of their white forefathers, those who were spared and those who were killed during the revolution, was granted to them which gave them an edge. Some who could afford to moved to France while others stayed in Haiti.

Hopefully a Haitian can come in here and shed more light on this issue.

damn i wrote a book

Skinni10ne:

This is true however like *Kails* pointed out when a single black country tries to compete or go against the super powers, they are targeted. This has not only happened to Haiti but Jamaica, Cuba and Ethiopia.

So what black countries need to do first is to work together. They need to create strong trading allies before developing their economy together (they cant develop on their own) or creating innovations. What is the point of creating innovations when no one out of the country can buy it or even get to know about it due to many barriers inflicted by Whites?

exactly.

Haitians, Jamaicans, and Cubans are probably the most "watched" islanders on the planet
by American secret services. Not only were we rebels during slavery but even afterwards:

this picture alone of Fidel Castro with Michael Manley




scared the bejeezus out of the united states who IMMEDIATELY ran to the JLP to help end this friendship and spread lies to the JLP supporters that MANLEY who wanted the island to adopt castro's self reliance ideology, instead wanted to make the island a communist nation.

fidel and manley's wife



fidel and manley again:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1098477!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg

Manley and Castro embrace in a hug:
http://youthandeldersja.files./2013/07/michael-and-fidel-4.jpg

you're damn right there was a conspiracy against us.

I really dont think you are getting the gist of my enquiries.

Perhaps I am guilty of not being very lucid

My questions basically are:

1. Why is it that most Black Societies across the globe are shitholes...severely lacking in progression and often fraught by strife?

2. Why is it that almost all Black leaders become tyrants/despots/etc when they begin to rule their countries?

3. Why is it that in black-majority countries where there has been inter-breeding with white people,the white people and/or the offspring of such interbreeding invariably end up holding economic and political power over the black majority?

4. Why is it that in the political situation described in question 3, the majority black population has been unable to wrest real economic and political power from the mulatto elite?

All of this leads to the final question:

5. Is the Black man destined to suffer?

Your arguments about the shower posse and what not, might give context to the situation in Jamaica, but is not necessarily relevant to the overall research question.

Your statements about Seaga and Manley carrying themselves as blackmen may be true, but its still does not take away the fact that they are both Mulattoes(offspring of a white and black union), and they both rose to political power over the majority black population. Like it happened/happens all over the Carribean and United States.

Whatever excuse you give for Jamaica/Haiti, it is impossible to deny that Black Societies across the globe are often dysfunctional dystopias relative to other non-black societies.

I'm just trying to find out why.

i answered your questions already.

"Your statements about Seaga and Manley carrying themselves as blackmen may be true, but its still does not take away the fact that they are both Mulattoes(offspring of a white and black union), and they both rose to political power over the majority black population. Like it happened/happens all over the Carribean and United States."

DID I NOT DISCUSS THIS IN FULL ABOVE SIR?

i literally answered them one by one esp. when it comes to us in the new world.
and to be frank our being here is the result of african on african crime.

so if you want to know why the black man is doomed you have to start with africa.

since my answers were not good enough, you should leave the caribbean and other diaspora
blacks out of this.

^^

You only focused on answering question 3...and as the thread was in danger of becoming a Jamaican political thread, I had highlight that the focus of this thread is about black societies worldwide...

Your contribution was noted and appreciated so please calm down.

jackbauersballs: ^^

You only focused on answering question 3...and as the thread was in danger of becoming a Jamaican political thread, I had highlight that the focus of this thread is about black societies worldwide...

Your contribution was noted and appreciated so please calm down.

why ask a question if you don't want the answer?
you can't ask about jamaican issues and expect me to leave politics out of it.

what are you? a pan-african revolutionist? lol

and i am calm, i just really want to know what you expected me to say?
what do you expect us to do? lol.

Well...

You were beginning to discuss some random drug barons that don't really have any bearing on this discussion.

I'm not a pan africanist by any means, but watching them documentaries last night put me in a state of depression...because I could not think of any black-run society that was actually working.

I agree with your statement about being exploited by westerners, but the lack of credible black leaders just depressed me even more...

I came on here hoping someone could say it's not so, but to me it looks like the Black race is doomed...

i feel you.
i was in your shoes not too long ago. i was on that afro.centric ride until reality crashed my high!!

as far as i was (and still am concerned) the black race = epic fail and an embarrassment.
*shrugs*

so i have come to accept this.

i hate to be pessimistic but again when you think about what happened with slavery,
you always get back to tribalism and greed. those are two things that seem to be embedded
in the black man's dna...how to separate and be greedy.

screw each other over but coon for white, arabs and asians.
it never fails.

What's this all aboot?

*Kails*:


second... i keep hearing this crap about non black people controlling jamaica... WHAT?!

Oh really? Because I remember you making these quotes a while ago where you basically admitted you negroes don't run chit in "Xaymaca"

MsDarkSkin:

How did "blacks benefit"?  It wasn't until recently we had a full black prime minister. Michael Manley, Edward Seaga and Alexander Bustamante were biracials/creoles and before them were whites.

MsDarkSkin: Most of Jamaica's poor is black while the mixed race, white and non-blacks own the most businesses and hold prominent positions.

So why the sudden change of heart? I guess it is now convenient to say you run chit.

^



Interesting

Is that not what I said?
Lol...do the research its simple.

Jamaica was a former colony of the british
Its obvious the whites controlled the country. I said it then and I am saying it now.

However things have changed and its now about class.
There are even black jamaicans who are "stush" hence the term. Those black jamaicans were who I was talking about when I said:

Many upper class darkskin people back in the day would purposely choose partners of lighter complexions or other races to have children so that their kids could have a brighter future (no pun ntended..hehehe ).

Is the same thing as:

"Most of Jamaica's poor is black while the mixed race, white and non-blacks own the most businesses and hold prominent positions"

so foh. And learn to read properly.

Why do black ppl suffer?
1. They suffer from inferiority complex (you cant compete if u dont believe in yourself) Ex. African music artists would rather a grammy or BET award than a 'local' award. Focus on making urs better instead of trying to be accepted.

2. Culture- i think that alone explains itself. And that is why blacks fight eachother

3. MYTHs- black ppl blame blame blame (the white man); they believe in many myths rather than research or look @ reality. They hold on to a lot of myths and refuse to let go. Research, even on the smallest things, would help blacks significantly.

4. Becuz of the 3 factors mentioned above: there is no trust in black communities. They dont encourage or believe in their own ppl. They look down on potential. Ex. Ure too young, ure not educated etc. As a result, black ppl rarely help each other and this discourages those (dreamers) who have a great idea in mind.


My 2 cents