^^ Just wait for The Lord to show you as he did to Oyedepo and Adeboye.

@ DrummaBoy

To avoid endless back and forth, let's agree to disagree. I take your point that there are other things money can be used for, but these alternatives will always exist. If the chosen use is legitimate and beneficial to church members, then it is permissible. We should seek for the best, but let God direct us and not be led simply by what we consider to be best.

Candour: @DrummaBoy, Pastor Kun & Goshen360, you asked for update of my meeting so here goes

Well, i went to the see the pastor as agreed and i was armed with my bible of course.I really was ready to show him all he was missing or mixing up but as we approached his place(my sister and i), i had a leading in my spirit to just listen and hear him out and i was glad i did.

We exchanged pleasantries, sat down and he began to speak.He started by asking when i stopped tithing and i told him exactly 2 years ago this august.He then wanted to know how my finances and health were faring to which i replied that i had never been better placed in these areas.I believe this threw him off balance (as he obviously expected a negative report) and forced him to adopt a new approach.He cited Abram's tithe to Melchizedek and tied it to Gal 3:14,17 (i wondered the extrapolation he did to arrive at that link). He agreed Abraham had been blessed in Gen 12 but explained the blessing did not come in full until he paid tithe in Gen 14(more surprise). He agreed Jacob's tithe was a vow(therefore voluntary) but said this was why God made it a law under Moses(another wonder).He admitted Christ has delivered us from the curse of the law(Gal 3:13) but said that Oyedepo and Adeboye confirmed(from God of course) that financial blessings could only come from obedience to the tithe(really?).At this point, i ignored my bible(as he didn't have need for it) and just kept staring at him.

He then delved into testimonies of what Tithe paying had done in the lives of people.How Copeland got so rich by obeying tithe that he dashed out 26 jets out of his personal collections.How Oyedepo acquired 4 jets and started an airline just by obeying tithe too.Then how he too will soon join their ranks because he's obeying the tithe.I guess he deciphered i wasn't moved by these so he told of 7 Colombian youths who were shown the harsh torment in hell for good Christians(his exact words) who refused to pay tithes.Then he told me how God had planned great riches for me but non payment of tithe was hindering them. He admitted i looked comfortable but there was a higher plane of riches i needed to get to.

At this point he conceded that there were Christians who were not reaping benefits of tithe but he will soon release a message that will explain how to make tithe work for you. He then ended by saying i should pray to God that night for God to reveal the tithe principle to me.

At this point, i thanked him for his time and took my leave.I had come for a bible discussion but i ended up being preached at.It was a long sermon but it left me very sad. Sad at how Christians who should be relaxed and revel in God's peace were busy getting worked up in the hysteria of material acquisitions and becoming depressed when expectations are dashed.I was very happy i didn't talk much as it might have looked like bragging and it wouldn't glorify God.

My brethren, the sheer emptiness of most sermons in our churches of today hit me fresh from my encounter with this pastor.I could just imagine him struggling to make God see him as qualified for blessings(he hinted at financial difficulties for the past 12 months) when he ought to be walking in the realization that we were already blessed simply because we are in Christ Eph 1:3.We have access to all we need because of God's love Rom 8:32, Phil 4:19, Heb 13:5

That night, i just prayed that God will liberate him from his legalistic bondage. What more could i do?

pls get intouch with Drummaboy asap. I must commend u 4 d grace of comportment, u realy tried.

debosky: ^^ Just wait for The Lord to show you as he did to Oyedepo and Adeboye.

@ DrummaBoy

To avoid endless back and forth, let's agree to disagree. I take your point that there are other things money can be used for, but these alternatives will always exist. If the chosen use is legitimate and beneficial to church members, then it is permissible. We should seek for the best, but let God direct us and not be led simply by what we consider to be best.

I agree also. Thanks

Candour: @DrummaBoy, Pastor Kun & Goshen360, you asked for update of my meeting so here goes

Well, i went to the see the pastor as agreed and i was armed with my bible of course.I really was ready to show him all he was missing or mixing up but as we approached his place(my sister and i), i had a leading in my spirit to just listen and hear him out and i was glad i did.

We exchanged pleasantries, sat down and he began to speak.He started by asking when i stopped tithing and i told him exactly 2 years ago this august.He then wanted to know how my finances and health were faring to which i replied that i had never been better placed in these areas.I believe this threw him off balance (as he obviously expected a negative report) and forced him to adopt a new approach.He cited Abram's tithe to Melchizedek and tied it to Gal 3:14,17 (i wondered the extrapolation he did to arrive at that link). He agreed Abraham had been blessed in Gen 12 but explained the blessing did not come in full until he paid tithe in Gen 14(more surprise). He agreed Jacob's tithe was a vow(therefore voluntary) but said this was why God made it a law under Moses(another wonder).He admitted Christ has delivered us from the curse of the law(Gal 3:13) but said that Oyedepo and Adeboye confirmed(from God of course) that financial blessings could only come from obedience to the tithe(really?).At this point, i ignored my bible(as he didn't have need for it) and just kept staring at him.

He then delved into testimonies of what Tithe paying had done in the lives of people.How Copeland got so rich by obeying tithe that he dashed out 26 jets out of his personal collections.How Oyedepo acquired 4 jets and started an airline just by obeying tithe too.Then how he too will soon join their ranks because he's obeying the tithe.I guess he deciphered i wasn't moved by these so he told of 7 Colombian youths who were shown the harsh torment in hell for good Christians(his exact words) who refused to pay tithes.Then he told me how God had planned great riches for me but non payment of tithe was hindering them. He admitted i looked comfortable but there was a higher plane of riches i needed to get to.

At this point he conceded that there were Christians who were not reaping benefits of tithe but he will soon release a message that will explain how to make tithe work for you. He then ended by saying i should pray to God that night for God to reveal the tithe principle to me.

At this point, i thanked him for his time and took my leave.I had come for a bible discussion but i ended up being preached at.It was a long sermon but it left me very sad. Sad at how Christians who should be relaxed and revel in God's peace were busy getting worked up in the hysteria of material acquisitions and becoming depressed when expectations are dashed.I was very happy i didn't talk much as it might have looked like bragging and it wouldn't glorify God.

My brethren, the sheer emptiness of most sermons in our churches of today hit me fresh from my encounter with this pastor.I could just imagine him struggling to make God see him as qualified for blessings(he hinted at financial difficulties for the past 12 months) when he ought to be walking in the realization that we were already blessed simply because we are in Christ Eph 1:3.We have access to all we need because of God's love Rom 8:32, Phil 4:19, Heb 13:5

That night, i just prayed that God will liberate him from his legalistic bondage. What more could i do?

Whilst I see the wisdom in listening to him though he said nothing new apart from the usual lies I would still very much like you write him a comprehensive rebuttal explaining to him scripturally why his position is flawed.

Make sure you write the rebuttal in such a way that you would tell him without insulting him that he is twisting God's word and it is a sin to do so.

Candour: @DrummaBoy, Pastor Kun & Goshen360, you asked for update of my meeting so here goes

Well, i went to the see the pastor as agreed and i was armed with my bible of course.I really was ready to show him all he was missing or mixing up but as we approached his place(my sister and i), i had a leading in my spirit to just listen and hear him out and i was glad i did.

We exchanged pleasantries, sat down and he began to speak.He started by asking when i stopped tithing and i told him exactly 2 years ago this august.He then wanted to know how my finances and health were faring to which i replied that i had never been better placed in these areas.I believe this threw him off balance (as he obviously expected a negative report) and forced him to adopt a new approach.He cited Abram's tithe to Melchizedek and tied it to Gal 3:14,17 (i wondered the extrapolation he did to arrive at that link). He agreed Abraham had been blessed in Gen 12 but explained the blessing did not come in full until he paid tithe in Gen 14(more surprise). He agreed Jacob's tithe was a vow(therefore voluntary) but said this was why God made it a law under Moses(another wonder).He admitted Christ has delivered us from the curse of the law(Gal 3:13) but said that Oyedepo and Adeboye confirmed(from God of course) that financial blessings could only come from obedience to the tithe(really?).At this point, i ignored my bible(as he didn't have need for it) and just kept staring at him.

He then delved into testimonies of what Tithe paying had done in the lives of people.How Copeland got so rich by obeying tithe that he dashed out 26 jets out of his personal collections.How Oyedepo acquired 4 jets and started an airline just by obeying tithe too.Then how he too will soon join their ranks because he's obeying the tithe.I guess he deciphered i wasn't moved by these so he told of 7 Colombian youths who were shown the harsh torment in hell for good Christians(his exact words) who refused to pay tithes.Then he told me how God had planned great riches for me but non payment of tithe was hindering them. He admitted i looked comfortable but there was a higher plane of riches i needed to get to.

At this point he conceded that there were Christians who were not reaping benefits of tithe but he will soon release a message that will explain how to make tithe work for you. He then ended by saying i should pray to God that night for God to reveal the tithe principle to me.

At this point, i thanked him for his time and took my leave.I had come for a bible discussion but i ended up being preached at.It was a long sermon but it left me very sad. Sad at how Christians who should be relaxed and revel in God's peace were busy getting worked up in the hysteria of material acquisitions and becoming depressed when expectations are dashed.I was very happy i didn't talk much as it might have looked like bragging and it wouldn't glorify God.

My brethren, the sheer emptiness of most sermons in our churches of today hit me fresh from my encounter with this pastor.I could just imagine him struggling to make God see him as qualified for blessings(he hinted at financial difficulties for the past 12 months) when he ought to be walking in the realization that we were already blessed simply because we are in Christ Eph 1:3.We have access to all we need because of God's love Rom 8:32, Phil 4:19, Heb 13:5

That night, i just prayed that God will liberate him from his legalistic bondage. What more could i do?

You don't know what that write up did for me.

In fact, ever since I came to this section to ask about the tithing, I didn't even know you were not tithing. You always maintained the Romans 14 attitude that people should be given the freedom to use their finances the way they like. Now I have heard atleast a bit on your position. Very interesting.

I have been a secret non tithe payer. But with this write up, I am going public on my facebook this moment. And I would be quoting you.

I trust God for the strength to withstand the avalanche of criticism.

DrummaBoy:

You don't know what that write up did for me.

In fact, ever since I came to this section to ask about the tithing, I didn't even know you were not tithing. You always maintained the Romans 14 attitude that people should be given the freedom to use their finances the way they like. Now I have heard atleast a bit on your position. Very interesting.

I have been a secret non tithe payer. But with this write up, I am going public on my facebook this moment. And I would be quoting you.

I trust God for the strength to withstand the avalanche of criticism.

I understand you brother.I couldn't tell my better half for at least 4 months and my siblings and parents only got to know about a year ago. Fear and Tradition are strong things and coupled with the carry over from African superstition, they become a volatile and unstable mix.My Mum told me a tither never loses.She would rather tithe before buying food or clothes for herself and i had to remind her that despite her tithe and dangerous seed sowing, she was fleeced of a portion of her business capital last year by one of her 'Christian' brothers.

On this forum, pro tithe brethren accuse some of us of fighting against supporting churches or ministers but i'll say it here that I DO NOT SUBSCRIBE to refusing to give in your local church even though i have my reservations about the way monies are utilized in our churches(even my antagonists would agree here). However there are still some worthy causes that could do with your finance.If you like maintain the 10% threshold but i BEG you pls DO NOT CALL IT PAYING OF TITHE.It becomes legalistic when you do and the Christian liberty for which Christ died is eroded.Every debt you owe God has been paid in full in Christ.What you can't finish paying is a debt of love to fellow humans(Rom 13:8-10) particularly brethren of the household of faith(Gal 6:10).

Tithe was a TAXATION enforced on the Israelite to feed the tribe of Levi who were saddled with the task of administrating not only the sanctuary but the entire fabric of Israel's theocracy.Their task is better understood when you study Numbers 1:47-54, Numbers 3 & 4, Numbers 18:1-20.God then through Moses gave the tithe to them with full explanations in Numbers 18:21-31 and Deut 14:22-29(the reference that started my query )

DrummaBoy, you are making me start tithe preaching all over again and i've promised myself not to engage it again on this forum. take time o

Pastor Kun:

Whilst I see the wisdom in listening to him though he said nothing new apart from the usual lies I would still very much like you write him a comprehensive rebuttal explaining to him scripturally why his position is flawed.

Make sure you write the rebuttal in such a way that you would tell him without insulting him that he is twisting God's word and it is a sin to do so.

I understand you Pastor Kun. I actually went there with the intention to destroy all his tithe premise but i believe i was led to just listen and like i said, it was better i did.

I trust we'll still have an engagement and maybe i'll have the liberty of Spirit to engage him then.

I'll just wait and see

christemmbassey: pls get intouch with Drummaboy asap. I must commend u 4 d grace of comportment, u realy tried.

i have my brother.

as for the grace, na God

debosky: ^^ Just wait for The Lord to show you as he did to Oyedepo and Adeboye.

@ DrummaBoy

To avoid endless back and forth, let's agree to disagree. I take your point that there are other things money can be used for, but these alternatives will always exist. If the chosen use is legitimate and beneficial to church members, then it is permissible. We should seek for the best, but let God direct us and not be led simply by what we consider to be best.

I guess you're right at the bolded.

I just might be led to start my own ministry

cheers

Candour:

I guess you're right at the bolded.

I just might be led to start my own ministry

cheers

Copout words oyibo preachers always use to discredit God's tithe."legalistic".SMH! Lord let your Kingdom come and let you will be done.God is indeed in Africa.

@ Candour,

You no TRY AT ALL FOR THAT KIND MEETING WITH THAT PASTOR. Seriously! I dey VEX for you this Sunday morning. I no efen know say you don write the update. Just woke up this morning and na your update my eyes first catch to read and you come make me vex like this.



But, I will respond to the update later. Got some things to do now.

[quote
author=Bidam]Copout words oyibo preachers always use to discredit God's
tithe."legalistic".SMH! Lord let your Kingdom come and let you will be
done.God is indeed in Africa.[/quote]

I thought you were supposed to be on 'retreat'

Goshen360: @ Candour,

You no TRY AT ALL FOR THAT KIND MEETING WITH THAT PASTOR. Seriously! I dey VEX for you this Sunday morning. I no efen know say you don write the update. Just woke up this morning and na your update my eyes first catch to read and you come make me vex like this.



But, I will respond to the update later. Got some things to do now.

Another problem I think is that the Pastor made the mistake of wanting to do all the talking instead of listening. A good councillor should listen more to understand the problem at hand properly before giving his counsel but in this case I think the Pastor just did all the talking using their often repeated lies with threats of hell and promises of wealth.

The most ridiculous part was when the pastor said that Adeboye and Oyedepo validated it as if they are God's mouth piece. Also the irony of them being examples of how God blesses tithers, is it not glaring that they are the collectors and primary beneficiaries of these tithes at the detriment of the tithers

Pastor Kun:

Another problem I think is that the Pastor made the mistake of wanting to do all the talking instead of listening. A good councillor should listen more to understand the problem at hand properly before giving his counsel but in this case I think the Pastor just did all the talking using their often repeated lies with threats of hell and promises of wealth.

The most ridiculous part was when the pastor said that Adeboye and Oyedepo validated it as if they are God's mouth piece. Also the irony of them being examples of how God blesses tithers, is it not glaring that they are the collectors and primary beneficiaries of these tithes at the detriment of the tithers

You're absolutely right my brother - that the pastor did all the talking than listening to why our brother stopped tithing. In my own case when I spoke to the RCCG pastor mentor, I called him from here and he listened to what I had to say. The mistake Candour made was, he was going to talk to someone and after he (Candour) had listened to the regular teachings they often say, he should have dragged the man into his own conversation after listening to the men. Candour allowed himself to listen to the man but refused to drag the man into listening to him, he just accepted the one side talk of the man. Two people involved in a conversation, the man had said what he wanted to say, then Candour too should say he he had in mind. Chei, Candour you fall hands no be small.

2. You now see when we say tithers always have a REASON they are tithing - not because they're ALREADY blessed in Christ or through Christ BUT because they 'think' by doing that, they will be blessed - That's what we clearly saw in the case of that Pastor, he wants to buy his own jet!. They always want to DO SOMETHING for God to bless them BUT Christ's finished works, we are already blessed. Again, I will respond to the update in details later.

Goshen, you just made me smile with your post. DAT hand way I fall, make e no break o

Pastor Kun got the exact reason why I was led to listen.You see, it was when he started that I realised he didn't have a bible discussion on his mind but his brief was to 'deliver' this recalcitrant renegade from anti-tithing spirit. My bro, I don't believe in winning an argument just for winning sake. It should have been a question and answer session(that's what I expected) but when MOG carry mic(so to speak) wet in man go do? Abi you want to hear that your brother threw punches with pastor? and I confess I could be very spirited in verbal exchanges.

My spirit told me to be quiet and it was wise I obeyed.Don't worry, God must have his own format of making him see the truth. It just wasn't meant to be me that day.

^ Okay bro. Na one by one we go dey loose these people. When Christ said, he came to set the captives free and proclaim the acceptable year of God. Question, what bondage were the people in for Christ to set them free from? Food for thought.

Goshen360:

You're absolutely right my brother - that the pastor did all the talking than listening to why our brother stopped tithing. In my own case when I spoke to the RCCG pastor mentor, I called him from here and he listened to what I had to say. The mistake Candour made was, he was going to talk to someone and after he (Candour) had listened to the regular teachings they often say, he should have dragged the man into his own conversation after listening to the men. Candour allowed himself to listen to the man but refused to drag the man into listening to him, he just accepted the one side talk of the man. Two people involved in a conversation, the man had said what he wanted to say, then Candour too should say he he had in mind. Chei, Candour you fall hands no be small.

2. You now see when we say tithers always have a REASON they are tithing - not because they're ALREADY blessed in Christ or through Christ BUT because they 'think' by doing that, they will be blessed - That's what we clearly saw in the case of that Pastor, he wants to buy his own jet!. They always want to DO SOMETHING for God to bless them BUT Christ's finished works, we are already blessed. Again, I will respond to the update in details later.

our brother Candour said he was led to only listen and me think we should respect that, and that was y i commended him bc me i 4 disobey o, but i believe our bros is primed for another opportunity. Peace

christemmbassey: our brother Candour said he was led to only listen and me think we should respect that, and that was y i commended him bc me i 4 disobey o, but i believe our bros is primed for another opportunity. Peace

Okay. The Spirit is subject one to another. No more comments!

Bidam: Copout words oyibo preachers always use to discredit God's tithe."legalistic".SMH! Lord let your Kingdom come and let you will be done.God is indeed in Africa.

Bidam my brother, I am not discrediting God's tithe. You're the one insulting God with monetary tithes when he specifically mentioned farm produce and livestock.

Pls Go ahead and give 10%, 20% or 50 % of your income to your church, God will be happy at your generosity but IT WILL NEVER BE TITHE in the sight of God. He knows what his tithe is and he knows how he wants it collected. you are the one confused about it.

U and I have had a number of exchanges on this issue so much that I'm loathe to start a fresh one. So let God speak to you as you always tell me.

Cheers

Candour:

Bidam my brother, I am not discrediting God's tithe. [s]You're the one insulting God with monetary tithes when he specifically mentioned farm produce and livestock. [/s]

Pls Go ahead and give 10%, 20% or 50 % of your income to your church, God will be happy at your generosity but [s]IT WILL NEVER BE TITHE in the sight of God[/s]. He knows what his tithe is and he knows how he wants it collected. you are the one confused about it.

U and I have had a number of exchanges on this issue so much that I'm loathe to start a fresh one. So let God speak to you as you always tell me.

Cheers

let God be the judge of that not you my brother..Cheers.

Bidam: let God be the judge of that not you my brother..Cheers.

prophet how far? My big bros eh eh eh, dont mind me o, bro Goshen suggest i should abandon preaching and do comedy, chai, a man's enemy is a member of his household, e big like say i go cross carpet o, if only u promise to share tithe 50/50, imagine Gosh, e don commot tithe 4 ma mouth, now e dey go 4 my mhnistry, kai, mkpo mkpa idem. remain blessed.

Candour: Goshen, you just made me smile with your post. DAT hand way I fall, make e no break o

Pastor Kun got the exact reason why I was led to listen.You see, it was when he started that I realised he didn't have a bible discussion on his mind but his brief was to 'deliver' this recalcitrant renegade from anti-tithing spirit. My bro, I don't believe in winning an argument just for winning sake. It should have been a question and answer session(that's what I expected) but when MOG carry mic(so to speak) wet in man go do? Abi you want to hear that your brother threw punches with pastor? and I confess I could be very spirited in verbal exchanges.

My spirit told me to be quiet and it was wise I obeyed.Don't worry, God must have his own format of making him see the truth. It just wasn't meant to be me that day.

That's the problem with most of our preachers these days; they think they know it all and everybody should listen to them. It's called the pulpit mentality.

Mr Troll: Sheeple.

lol @ post and signature

I never knew this kind of discussion has been going on here until now. Wow, what a fellowship of the Spirit! This is the same message I have been preaching to some christian folks here but some still find it too good to be true. I understand them anyway. See, I still don't knw where most of our pastors found this error from in the Bible to complement their scripture ignorance. Tithe paying started LEGALLY with the jews as written in the law that God gave to the Isrealites in the Old Testament, we're no Jews 4 God's sake; we're no more under the Jewish laws but under law of the Spirit and the Truth. The area where most of our pastors missed it their inabilities to differentiate between the Old Testament and the New Testaament, that's where the error emanated from. There is a LIFE in the Old Test. and there another LIFE in the New Test., and you can never live both together as a christian. Can u imagine? Jesus came, preached and did all we could need without collecting TITHES, FIRST FRUIT, etc frm anybody, yet He kept on blessing lives on daily basis. All He preached was GIVING which could be seen in the lives of all the Apostles throughout the Scriptures: every1 gave according to their ability and decision in Act chapter 4 and in Pauline revelation, he said u must not give by force (Law) or compulsion but rather give with cheerfulness and willingness(2 cor.9:6-. Jesus said, "Give and it shall come back to u..." (Luke 6:38). I don't knw when Prophet Malachi's words became superior to the words of Jesus. Whatever u give to the work of the ministry is GIVING in the eyes of God no matter what u religiously name it. We owe God nothing!! We're worshippers in the Spirit and in the Truth , not laws carriers. Happy Sunday to all.

busuyem: I never knew this kind of discussion has been going on here until now. Wow, what a fellowship of the Spirit! This is the same message I have been preaching to some christian folks here but some still find it too good to be true. I understand them anyway. See, I still don't knw where most of our pastors found this error from in the Bible to complement their scripture ignorance. Tithe paying started LEGALLY with the jews as written in the law that God gave to the Isrealites in the Old Testament, we're no Jews 4 God's sake; we're no more under the Jewish laws but under law of the Spirit and the Truth. The area where most of our pastors missed it their inabilities to differentiate between the Old Testament and the New Testaament, that's where the error emanated from. There is a LIFE in the Old Test. and there another LIFE in the New Test., and you can never live both together as a christian. Can u imagine? Jesus came, preached and did all we could need without collecting TITHES, FIRST FRUIT, etc frm anybody, yet He kept on blessing lives on daily basis. All He preached was GIVING which could be seen in the lives of all the Apostles throughout the Scriptures: every1 gave according to their ability and decision in Act chapter 4 and in Pauline revelation, he said u must not give by force (Law) or compulsion but rather give with cheerfulness and willingness(2 cor.9:6-. Jesus said, "Give and it shall come back to u..." (Luke 6:38). I don't knw when Prophet Malachi's words became superior to the words of Jesus. Whatever u give to the work of the ministry is GIVING in the eyes of God no matter what u religiously name it. We owe God nothing!! We're worshippers in the Spirit and in the Truth , not laws carriers. Happy Sunday to all.

Welcome to the party Bro. And you are very, right up there!